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10/06/12 7:34:21 PM#21
I agree very strongly with loss of the journey aspect of the video. Current progression raiding has had the "progression" part removed. As soon as a new raid is released, the previous tiers are quickly forgotten.
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10/06/12 7:39:13 PM#22
Originally posted by Zecktorin The guy in the video is another one who believes that he knows better than Blizzard about what is good for WoW and what is not. I was just like him till a couple of years ago. You wan't to know why Bliizard steered WoW towards the path described in the footage? Take a good look at the gamer demographics puplished over the last 3 - 4 years and if you have half a brain and are able to comprehend basic number figures then you'll have your answers. Blizzard like all other game companies is not the salvation army like some people delude themselves it is. |
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Lissyl
 Advanced Member
Joined: 4/12/12
If cosmetics aren't content, why don't people demand a cheaper game done in full grayscale? |
10/06/12 7:44:21 PM#23
No. You know what happened to that teary-eyed trip down nostalgia lane? The raiders happened. When, in TBC, they decided it was better to poach other guilds instead of taking newer players, it happened. When they decided that it was no longer their place to teach new people how to raid, it happened. When they decided that they were too good to have to regear new recruits, it happened. They did it to themselves. And what -happened- was that a chain of guilds started forming and people would move from one to another to another straight on up until they saw the content...then many of them would go on their way. After all, you recruit a bunch of guild-hoppers, why would you be surprised when they guild-hop? This led to only an incredibly tiny number of people seeing anything and led to extreme frustration on the part of everyone else who -also- wanted that magical journey but couldn't get it because of the guys at the top stealing their talent out of laziness. They left the room for the 'we deserve to see it too' argument, and -now- they're all misty-eyed about it, complaining to all and sundry about how the games are trash nowadays, all the while refusing to accept the responsibility for causing it in the first place. No, what was trash was the entitlement attitude that the top raiders had when they tore apart the guilding system. You reap what you sow. |
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Betaguy
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/31/04
The king and the pawn go back to the same box at the end of the day. |
10/06/12 7:46:40 PM#24
I disagree I am glad they took out the nuances... You might like specing points into percentages a few percentages every level which is silly an pointless. You might love trying to look around for herbs that blend in so well it drives you mad to find them. You may like looting every corpse once at a time. You may like all the silly little nuances but I do not. WoW is still the best because they make things flow better over time...
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10/06/12 7:47:22 PM#25
LFM UBRS Need key .... LFM UBRS Need key .... .... LFG Stitching ... LFG Scholo, LBRS, Strat, UBRS .... Logs off |
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Betaguy
Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/31/04
The king and the pawn go back to the same box at the end of the day. |
10/06/12 7:50:57 PM#26
Originally posted by rounner This made me laugh, this is why WoW still does well they make things better with there game over time. They take out the nuances.
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10/06/12 7:51:33 PM#27
LOL, you guys bitch about everything!!! Nothing pleases you, right? Having the games stay the way they are for life is not profittable and people will get bored with it fast. They do not make money that way. -_- At least this weeds out the losers from WoW.
For those who bitches about certain games that disappointed them; why don't you make your own?
LIVE LONG WOW! <3
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10/06/12 8:25:37 PM#28
Originally posted by Luxely There should be new content and some new ideas. But I think the basic design principles should stay the same. Making a game more streamlined and to add convinience-mechanics is bad for a game. It makes the virtual world less interesting to explore. WoW is no longer the same game. Some that liked it when it was released are not happy anymore. I think the video explains why. Someone that is a explorer and not a raider could explain it in a different way. But it is the same basic problem for everyone that liked the original game. |
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10/06/12 8:30:17 PM#29
Originally posted by Luxely Saying WoW sucks is bitching. Having facts and figures that show, as the raids have become easier the growth in WoW has slowed then declined. That is an assesment.
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10/06/12 8:37:27 PM#30
Naxxramus only being played by 1% of the population was a big problem.
I miss the 40 man raids but not the nightly schedules to see the content.
The problem is that the original WOW formula only works for a small percentage of the population and yet so much development time was dedicated to it. I think WOW would be pretty fun if they let you play on progression servers where you chose when to update to a patch with the next raiding tier. They could probably make a lot of money if they did it right.
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10/06/12 8:50:40 PM#31
I listened to the first two minutes. Your argument defeats itself. You said you want new players to experience the journey (1:52), but at the same time less than 1% of players (1:34) do get to experience it. How does that even make sense? Wake up. You are the 1% who got to experience the content when it was end-game and you want Blizzard to cater to you instead of the average person. Deal with it or play a different game.
I stopped playing WoW in vanilla when I realized I would not get to experience end-game content. I simply didn't have time for the hours of raiding per day that it required to experience all that the game had to offer in the time before the next expansion. I felt left-out and I didn't enjoy being "stuck" at a certain point in the game while my friends passed me by. It sounds like Blizzard has finally changed their catering from the elitist crowd to the casual player and that makes me seriously consider breaking my oath to never play WoW again.
There is a big difference between making a game accessible and handing it to people on a platter. Elitists seem to blur that distinction by claiming any accessibility is handing the game to players. Elitists need to get over themselves and enjoy the game for what it is. From what I can tell, Blizzard is finally making the game accessible to everyone instead of just the 1%. |
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10/06/12 9:01:12 PM#32
From day one this game was designed for the casual audience. It's had to adapt to keep up with the standards of the times, but no one seeking a real challenge ever played WoW, so why get upset if its easier?
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10/06/12 9:02:10 PM#33
I agree completly with this video. There is nothing more to say, it is so sad.
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10/06/12 9:04:27 PM#34
Originally posted by syntax42 Good video, thanks for posting. Yes early WoW had a challenge that can not be matched with current WoW. Nowadays every WoW player has Epics, like they were trash items, and they don't appreciate what obtaining Epics actually meant in early WoW.
Vanilla WoW involved an intense community experience with 40-man raids. Yes people who were not capable of being in a guild are jaded, but those that were in a guild found an amazing game. If you were not capable of being in a guild, then try more .. expand your social skills, expand your understanding that other people are different from yourself. Or accept that you could possibly get better. The majority of people who hate early WoW were either anti-social, or failed to be guild worthy. FACE IT. Now you are older, look back. TBC didn't just get 11+ subscribers on a whim, it was a grand expansion. Now when Blizzard killed raids down to 10-man and licked tongues with Activision, along with sub-standard quality, this is when WoW started to fall. It's no wonder why so many people want to play a Vanilla WoW emulator. The game was good then. Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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10/06/12 9:06:23 PM#35
Originally posted by Karteli The guild based 40 man raids gave rise to a very elitist exclusionary type of end game. I personally think it's awful game design,e specially when DAoC managed to do massive raids with 100+ people and it awas just about entirely skill based, not gear based, so anyone could come along if they wanted. And those raids were a LOT harder than WoW raids. |
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10/06/12 9:06:44 PM#36
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz Facts? The fact is the WoW reached its peak with player numbers during WOTLK, which many of you so called "old school harcore" types dimissed as too easy. Blizzard ramped up the difficulty when Cata launched and guess what happened? They lost a lot of players because of it. They eased up on the difficulty and it slowed the bleeding quite a bit. MoP is a return to WOTLK type of difficulty.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp? |
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10/06/12 9:10:00 PM#37
Originally posted by DavisFlight Having elitist is necessary, and it gives room for other players to strive toward them. I loved the 40 man raids. It was pure entertainment. Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History" |
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10/06/12 9:14:44 PM#38
Originally posted by Karteli That is a matter of opinion. I understand that you, like many others, enjoyed the original version of WoW for the social experience it offered. I also enjoyed the social experience of being in a guild. However, the guilds that I joined were just as casual as I was and were not able to put together the people required to complete raids. We attempted Molten Core a couple times, but the repeated failures drove the guild apart because many felt the loss of time with no reward was not worth it. After that, my guild could not even muster the numbers required to attempt Molten Core. I tried joining other guilds, but they wouldn't recruit people who still needed gear from MC at that point because they had moved on to the next raid.
What you really enjoyed was the sense of accomplisment from doing something that most people didn't get to experience. Apparently, MoP is changing that and you don't like it. |
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Purutzil
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/02/11
If you see no good or you see no bad in a game, chances are you are bias. |
10/06/12 9:16:49 PM#39
Originally posted by DavisFlight Um... were you playing the same DAoC as me?
Seriously though, elitism didn't arrise from players being 'good' it evolved as the skill of players declined massively. Easier content promotes a much less skill based playstyle. The point of the video is highlighting the fact as more and more bad players filled the ranks and its not just them being bad, its the fact they did NOTHING to try and improve themselves. They just had no desire to get better and thats where the current problem exists.
Your 'elitist' argument is quite silly. In WoW wotlk, you SAW just who was good as the players became less. The 10 man version of OS3D (release, not joke mode outgear patch) was HARDER then the 20 man version. Why? It involved far less room from error with one person. Having more players allows for more room for error compared to less. 1 Bad player in a 100 man means that only 1% of the players are no good. 20 man it means that 5% of the group is bad and needs to be made up for. 10 Man it means that player accounts for 10% of the group that needs to be pulled. With less numbers in particular, this shrinks the ability for players to perform poorly on their role making it much more obvious that they flunked. This is where I believe elitism started to take part and with the dumbing down of content and promotion of not needing effort to get better, it only helped to make elitism that much worst. |
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10/06/12 9:17:27 PM#40
Originally posted by Karteli Having less than 5% of your players seeing the end game content is generally not something developers want. I know some people measure their self worth at being better than others at internet wizards and warriors, but those people can go and you know what themselves.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp? |
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