Originally posted by Ridelynn

I yearn for the old EQ Velious days, where raid gear was tied to faction. And that faction took ~weeks~. It was a very obvious content road block, designed to slow down players from getting to the end game and make the expansion last that much longer. At the time I hated it, but looking back through rose-colored glasses, at least it did make the content more relevant for a longer period of time. In fact, the expansion was still relevant for years, long after the next two or three major expansions were released.

I think the biggest reason I stopped playing WoW was because people could do just what the OP states - have something "ready to go" inside of a day or two. The big push to hurry up to the end, so you could stand around and twiddle your thumbs until the next bit of content gets released.

Sure, he's working hard to do it, but the fact that the mechanisms and challenges allow anyone to do that is ridiculous. Really - how much longer until the next expansion comes out? A year, 2 years? Even before they add new content - that's still on a pace of 3-4 months between in-expansion content pushes.

And your main point of contention is because you can't get to the end of this one in a single day?

No. My point is, blizzard shouldn't put people on THEIR time frame. and its not about 'hurrying up to the end', I enjoy raiding. I don't really like heroics(although I can put up with them) or dailies, or pvp. I like raiding. But raiding is ALWAYS fun for me. I'm trying to sludge through the stuff I find boring, so I can get to what I pay for, what I find fun; for me, that's raiding. It's not about 'getting to the end', its about 'getting to the fun part"

How would PVPers like it if suddenly you could ONLY pvp at max level and after earning reputation with all the pvp factions?

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by Ridelynn

I yearn for the old EQ Velious days, where raid gear was tied to faction. And that faction took ~weeks~. It was a very obvious content road block, designed to slow down players from getting to the end game and make the expansion last that much longer. At the time I hated it, but looking back through rose-colored glasses, at least it did make the content more relevant for a longer period of time. In fact, the expansion was still relevant for years, long after the next two or three major expansions were released.

I think the biggest reason I stopped playing WoW was because people could do just what the OP states - have something "ready to go" inside of a day or two. The big push to hurry up to the end, so you could stand around and twiddle your thumbs until the next bit of content gets released.

Sure, he's working hard to do it, but the fact that the mechanisms and challenges allow anyone to do that is ridiculous. Really - how much longer until the next expansion comes out? A year, 2 years? Even before they add new content - that's still on a pace of 3-4 months between in-expansion content pushes.

And your main point of contention is because you can't get to the end of this one in a single day?

No. My point is, blizzard shouldn't put people on THEIR time frame. and its not about 'hurrying up to the end', I enjoy raiding. I don't really like heroics(although I can put up with them) or dailies, or pvp. I like raiding. But raiding is ALWAYS fun for me. I'm trying to sludge through the stuff I find boring, so I can get to what I pay for, what I find fun; for me, that's raiding. It's not about 'getting to the end', its about 'getting to the fun part"

How would PVPers like it if suddenly you could ONLY pvp at max level and after earning reputation with all the pvp factions?

So basically, If I want to die, at least let me choose my own poison?

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by Ridelynn

I yearn for the old EQ Velious days, where raid gear was tied to faction. And that faction took ~weeks~. It was a very obvious content road block, designed to slow down players from getting to the end game and make the expansion last that much longer. At the time I hated it, but looking back through rose-colored glasses, at least it did make the content more relevant for a longer period of time. In fact, the expansion was still relevant for years, long after the next two or three major expansions were released.

I think the biggest reason I stopped playing WoW was because people could do just what the OP states - have something "ready to go" inside of a day or two. The big push to hurry up to the end, so you could stand around and twiddle your thumbs until the next bit of content gets released.

Sure, he's working hard to do it, but the fact that the mechanisms and challenges allow anyone to do that is ridiculous. Really - how much longer until the next expansion comes out? A year, 2 years? Even before they add new content - that's still on a pace of 3-4 months between in-expansion content pushes.

And your main point of contention is because you can't get to the end of this one in a single day?

No. My point is, blizzard shouldn't put people on THEIR time frame. and its not about 'hurrying up to the end', I enjoy raiding. I don't really like heroics(although I can put up with them) or dailies, or pvp. I like raiding. But raiding is ALWAYS fun for me. I'm trying to sludge through the stuff I find boring, so I can get to what I pay for, what I find fun; for me, that's raiding. It's not about 'getting to the end', its about 'getting to the fun part"

How would PVPers like it if suddenly you could ONLY pvp at max level and after earning reputation with all the pvp factions?

So basically, If I want to die, at least let me choose my own poison?

More or less.

My one problem with the game:

One choice on what to do with my character every 15 levels.  AWESOME! 

Wait....

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Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

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Originally posted by azrael466

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Originally posted by Xiaoki  

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Originally posted by azrael466 I'm not asking for hand outs, I'm asking to be able to do it on MY schedule. Not blizzards. That is, honestly, my only problem with it. I don't care that its attached to REPUTATION, I care that its attached to -dailies-. Forcing me into a schedule that I don't want nor have the time for, understand? I have no problem with doing the work.

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"the LEAST you could do is make it so that once I get exalted with these reputations on one toon, all my alts can buy the gear as well"   You're asking for free hand outs right here. Also, if you had "no problem with doing the work" then you would have no problem doing the dailies for the reputation. Some very mixed messages here. You say you're a raider but you want raid quality gear for running Heroics. You say you're not asking for hand outs but you want free gear for your alts. You say you have no problem doing dailies or farming rep but this whole complaint is based on doing dailies for rep. It really sounds like you want easy epics NOW NOW NOW.

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No, you're choosing to take that out of it. Its not the WORK I'm complaining about. its being on THEIR, FUCKING SCHEDULE. Its being forced to do things on THEIR time, not mine that pisses me off. and you think I don't need this for raiding? do you even play wow? do you expect anyone to let you raid without it since 'lawlz, just do the dailiez"? even GUILD LEADERS are saying 'the only way to get raid ready now is dailies" You're completely ignoring the point to nitpick things you can easily argue against to dismiss my opinion.

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Relax. The problem is that you are talking to a bunch of people that either don't really raid, use the raid finder to raid, or belong to a "scrub" raiding guild that has no clue. People that actually raid with a serious raid guild understand the gear requirements and that you won't be allowed to raid and will be replaced with someone who does have the gear. Serious guilds don't raid with people that have gear that "might" let you succeed......

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How about you?

Also, I went in with no epics and tanked it just fine. If your guild thinks you absolutely must have epics to do Mogu'shan Vaults then you should leave your guild.

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by azrael466
I'm not asking for hand outs, I'm asking to be able to do it on MY schedule. Not blizzards. That is, honestly, my only problem with it. I don't care that its attached to REPUTATION, I care that its attached to -dailies-. Forcing me into a schedule that I don't want nor have the time for, understand? I have no problem with doing the work.

---

"the LEAST you could do is make it so that once I get exalted with these reputations on one toon, all my alts can buy the gear as well"

 

You're asking for free hand outs right here.

Also, if you had "no problem with doing the work" then you would have no problem doing the dailies for the reputation.

Some very mixed messages here.

You say you're a raider but you want raid quality gear for running Heroics.

You say you're not asking for hand outs but you want free gear for your alts.

You say you have no problem doing dailies or farming rep but this whole complaint is based on doing dailies for rep.

It really sounds like you want easy epics NOW NOW NOW.

No, you're choosing to take that out of it.

Its not the WORK I'm complaining about. its being on THEIR, FUCKING SCHEDULE. Its being forced to do things on THEIR time, not mine that pisses me off.

and you think I don't need this for raiding? do you even play wow? do you expect anyone to let you raid without it since 'lawlz, just do the dailiez"? even GUILD LEADERS are saying 'the only way to get raid ready now is dailies"

You're completely ignoring the point to nitpick things you can easily argue against to dismiss my opinion.

Relax. The problem is that you are talking to a bunch of people that either don't really raid, use the raid finder to raid, or belong to a "scrub" raiding guild that has no clue. People that actually raid with a serious raid guild understand the gear requirements and that you won't be allowed to raid and will be replaced with someone who does have the gear. Serious guilds don't raid with people that have gear that "might" let you succeed......

"Serious" guilds require attendance on their time also, not the OP's time, making it a contradiction in desires.  There is nothing preventing the OP from using the LFR when it debuts next week, and if his time is so short as to be unable to do dailies sufficiently, then waiting a week for the LFR to open isn't costing him anything.  If his time was -not- that short, then nothing has changed because he'll continue to progress with his rep farming.

Not really seeing the problem here.

OP, regarding your alts -- there's a sticky up about them working on halving the progression for alts once you have exalted that looks quite promising, if you haven't checked it out yet. =)

Originally posted by Lissyl

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by azrael466
I'm not asking for hand outs, I'm asking to be able to do it on MY schedule. Not blizzards. That is, honestly, my only problem with it. I don't care that its attached to REPUTATION, I care that its attached to -dailies-. Forcing me into a schedule that I don't want nor have the time for, understand? I have no problem with doing the work.

---

"the LEAST you could do is make it so that once I get exalted with these reputations on one toon, all my alts can buy the gear as well"

 

You're asking for free hand outs right here.

Also, if you had "no problem with doing the work" then you would have no problem doing the dailies for the reputation.

Some very mixed messages here.

You say you're a raider but you want raid quality gear for running Heroics.

You say you're not asking for hand outs but you want free gear for your alts.

You say you have no problem doing dailies or farming rep but this whole complaint is based on doing dailies for rep.

It really sounds like you want easy epics NOW NOW NOW.

No, you're choosing to take that out of it.

Its not the WORK I'm complaining about. its being on THEIR, FUCKING SCHEDULE. Its being forced to do things on THEIR time, not mine that pisses me off.

and you think I don't need this for raiding? do you even play wow? do you expect anyone to let you raid without it since 'lawlz, just do the dailiez"? even GUILD LEADERS are saying 'the only way to get raid ready now is dailies"

You're completely ignoring the point to nitpick things you can easily argue against to dismiss my opinion.

Relax. The problem is that you are talking to a bunch of people that either don't really raid, use the raid finder to raid, or belong to a "scrub" raiding guild that has no clue. People that actually raid with a serious raid guild understand the gear requirements and that you won't be allowed to raid and will be replaced with someone who does have the gear. Serious guilds don't raid with people that have gear that "might" let you succeed......

"Serious" guilds require attendance on their time also, not the OP's time, making it a contradiction in desires.  

Unless you join a guilds who raiding schedule..You know, fits your own.

Being on 3-4 hours on the weekend for a raid is entirely different then having to set asideeven 2 hours EVERY, SINGLE, DAY for daily quests.

Please, tell me how exactly thats a contradiction?

My problem, is my play time is different every day of the week. Mondays and wednesdays, for example, I can't play at all. Tuesdays and thursdays, I have a few hours of playtime - Weekends vary week by week, but usually I have as much time as  I choose to devote to it. Weekly, That means, while every week I have a decent amount of time I can put to working on things, day by day I do not. Dailies are terrible for alot of people because of that exact reason.

Wow, i think a lot of people will agree with me when I say this. But the OP is the exact poisen that lead the game to its current state. Every start of an expansion you need to do some sort of attunement, especially dailies for rep. It's really not that time consuming or hard.

Blizzard has given us easier raid conent for people like you. Given us 10 mans, easier quality 25 mans, got rid of 40s. Then they made even easier quality 25's and gave a mirrored instance "heroic" quality. Heroic qualities have even gotten easier since cata. Then they threw Epics into easy "heroic" dungeons. Then they added raid finder. 

PvE progression is dead. If you think otherwise check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo

Originally posted by Goll25

Wow, i think a lot of people will agree with me when I say this. But the OP is the exact poisen that lead the game to its current state. Every start of an expansion you need to do some sort of attunement, especially dailies for rep. It's really not that time consuming or hard.

Blizzard has given us easier raid conent for people like you. Given us 10 mans, easier quality 25 mans, got rid of 40s. Then they made even easier quality 25's and gave a mirrored instance "heroic" quality. Heroic qualities have even gotten easier since cata. Then they threw Epics into easy "heroic" dungeons. Then they added raid finder. 

PvE progression is dead. If you think otherwise check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo

well said m8

Originally posted by Goll25

Wow, i think a lot of people will agree with me when I say this. But the OP is the exact poisen that lead the game to its current state. Every start of an expansion you need to do some sort of attunement, especially dailies for rep. It's really not that time consuming or hard.

Blizzard has given us easier raid conent for people like you. Given us 10 mans, easier quality 25 mans, got rid of 40s. Then they made even easier quality 25's and gave a mirrored instance "heroic" quality. Heroic qualities have even gotten easier since cata. Then they threw Epics into easy "heroic" dungeons. Then they added raid finder. 

PvE progression is dead. If you think otherwise check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo

Only the people with poor reading comprehension.

Nothing I've said, nor anything I've complained about actually makes the game HARDER. I want difficult raid content, I don't want to be forced to grind rep every day for a bloody month just to get to it.

Clearly, you didn't understand a word I said in my post, and are just looking for people to insult and blame blizzards poor design on. You're the kind of raider that wants to be a special little snowflake and lord raiding over people who don't treat the game like a job. Why don't you go back to games like everquest where that mentality belongs.

Originally posted by bubaluba
Sorry to say but i could never understand you pve guys. You take games to seriously, i don't even notice in game what for pve gear you have. I am big fan of wow but to cry about some gear or standigs is just not normal to me. When i hiot max level i do bg's, roaming to find someone from oposing faction to get some kills, arena,crafting, season events exct, but you raiders are totaly f.... up. That is the reason i hate raids and stupid dungeons because of people who take that to seriously. What i can do alone i do and what not, who cares

I'm sorry but, did a PVPer just say RAIDERS take it too seriously?

Really? you just said that? go into ANY BG and try to count the number of people who spend the entire round bitching about how much everyone on the team but them sucks if their faction isn't winning. PVPers are the ones who bash, ridicule, and insult PVEers constantly because of their perfered play style..But no, its us who take things too seriously, okay, good to know.

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by Goll25

Wow, i think a lot of people will agree with me when I say this. But the OP is the exact poisen that lead the game to its current state. Every start of an expansion you need to do some sort of attunement, especially dailies for rep. It's really not that time consuming or hard.

Blizzard has given us easier raid conent for people like you. Given us 10 mans, easier quality 25 mans, got rid of 40s. Then they made even easier quality 25's and gave a mirrored instance "heroic" quality. Heroic qualities have even gotten easier since cata. Then they threw Epics into easy "heroic" dungeons. Then they added raid finder. 

PvE progression is dead. If you think otherwise check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo

Only the people with poor reading comprehension.

Nothing I've said, nor anything I've complained about actually makes the game HARDER. I want difficult raid content, I don't want to be forced to grind rep every day for a bloody month just to get to it.

Clearly, you didn't understand a word I said in my post, and are just looking for people to insult and blame blizzards poor design on. You're the kind of raider that wants to be a special little snowflake and lord raiding over people who don't treat the game like a job. Why don't you go back to games like everquest where that mentality belongs.

Yeah i understand what you meant by your post, you want better gear faster. So you can get into raids, faster. Then finish that raid... Faster. Time plays a part in difficulty/exclusiveness. The journey of getting attuned for every new raid is lost and it sucks. PvE character progression is dieing, if not already dead, and what your complaining about is a support beam that holds the structure up. 

Sure you didn't say you were against hard content, but it's part of the slippery slope. However you fail to see the downside to it, when you get better gear faster, you clear raids faster which to a lot of people (the majority who have quit.) don't feel excited to raid. Seriously watch the video I posted you'll get what I'm trying to say explained better. You can't argue with those facts, and also there is a corrilation with the way blizzard goes about it's new content and the subscription numbers. Easier/quicker it gets - the lower the subscribers go.

Originally posted by expresso
It might have been said already, but the reason 'raid quality' gear is tied to Daily quests is to get people out of the cities, in Cata  people would just stay in the city queing for HC's, then stay in the cities and run raids, in MOP blizzard want to get poeple out into the world even at max level.

This is another good point, it's really fun seeing people playing this as an mmo again. The world is "dangerous" to go out into again.

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by bubaluba
Sorry to say but i could never understand you pve guys. You take games to seriously, i don't even notice in game what for pve gear you have. I am big fan of wow but to cry about some gear or standigs is just not normal to me. When i hiot max level i do bg's, roaming to find someone from oposing faction to get some kills, arena,crafting, season events exct, but you raiders are totaly f.... up. That is the reason i hate raids and stupid dungeons because of people who take that to seriously. What i can do alone i do and what not, who cares

I'm sorry but, did a PVPer just say RAIDERS take it too seriously?

Really? you just said that? go into ANY BG and try to count the number of people who spend the entire round bitching about how much everyone on the team but them sucks if their faction isn't winning. PVPers are the ones who bash, ridicule, and insult PVEers constantly because of their perfered play style..But no, its us who take things too seriously, okay, good to know.

Cmon! You can't compare ''bitching'' wen you do something wrong in dungeon and bg, you know that.

Originally posted by bubaluba

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by bubaluba
Sorry to say but i could never understand you pve guys. You take games to seriously, i don't even notice in game what for pve gear you have. I am big fan of wow but to cry about some gear or standigs is just not normal to me. When i hiot max level i do bg's, roaming to find someone from oposing faction to get some kills, arena,crafting, season events exct, but you raiders are totaly f.... up. That is the reason i hate raids and stupid dungeons because of people who take that to seriously. What i can do alone i do and what not, who cares

I'm sorry but, did a PVPer just say RAIDERS take it too seriously?

Really? you just said that? go into ANY BG and try to count the number of people who spend the entire round bitching about how much everyone on the team but them sucks if their faction isn't winning. PVPers are the ones who bash, ridicule, and insult PVEers constantly because of their perfered play style..But no, its us who take things too seriously, okay, good to know.

Cmon! You can't compare ''bitching'' wen you do something wrong in dungeon and bg, you know that.

Trust me, I'm a "balanced" player. People bitch on both sides of the game, no worse then the other. It's bound to happen, most of the time it's unwarrented, other times it's understandable lol. I never complain, or whine, I try to help out if I think I can help people or give advice. When I want to be more serious I play with people I know and cooridinate with vent, so basically I never have to rage. Random groups are just that, you win some/you loose some, in PvP and PvE. 

Originally posted by Goll25

Originally posted by azrael466

Originally posted by Goll25

Wow, i think a lot of people will agree with me when I say this. But the OP is the exact poisen that lead the game to its current state. Every start of an expansion you need to do some sort of attunement, especially dailies for rep. It's really not that time consuming or hard.

Blizzard has given us easier raid conent for people like you. Given us 10 mans, easier quality 25 mans, got rid of 40s. Then they made even easier quality 25's and gave a mirrored instance "heroic" quality. Heroic qualities have even gotten easier since cata. Then they threw Epics into easy "heroic" dungeons. Then they added raid finder. 

PvE progression is dead. If you think otherwise check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo

Only the people with poor reading comprehension.

Nothing I've said, nor anything I've complained about actually makes the game HARDER. I want difficult raid content, I don't want to be forced to grind rep every day for a bloody month just to get to it.

Clearly, you didn't understand a word I said in my post, and are just looking for people to insult and blame blizzards poor design on. You're the kind of raider that wants to be a special little snowflake and lord raiding over people who don't treat the game like a job. Why don't you go back to games like everquest where that mentality belongs.

Yeah i understand what you meant by your post, you want better gear faster. So you can get into raids, faster. Then finish that raid... Faster. Time plays a part in difficulty/exclusiveness. The journey of getting attuned for every new raid is lost and it sucks. PvE character progression is dieing, if not already dead, and what your complaining about is a support beam that holds the structure up. 

Sure you didn't say you were against hard content, but it's part of the slippery slope. However you fail to see the downside to it, when you get better gear faster, you clear raids faster which to a lot of people (the majority who have quit.) don't feel excited to raid. Seriously watch the video I posted you'll get what I'm trying to say explained better. You can't argue with those facts, and also there is a corrilation with the way blizzard goes about it's new content and the subscription numbers. Easier/quicker it gets - the lower the subscribers go.

Not faster, not easier. On my OWN time, not blizzards. I shouldn't have to schedule my REAL LIFE around WoW just so I don't fall behind on gear.