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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What do you guys think of this class/skill/talent system?

12 posts found
  bishbosh2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 66

 
OP  10/05/12 2:28:50 AM#1

This skill system is intended for use in a sandbox style game but will also work in themepark games. There are no character levels.

Skills are learnt through skill books which can be found like regular loot. Skills books are consumed upon use. Just like swords and shields and other items skills books can have randomnly generated effects/bonuses. 

example:

 

fireball:

- deals (weapon_damage + intelligence) *1.2

- 30m range

 

epic fireball for cool people:

- deals (weapon_damage + intelligence) * 1.2

- 30m range

- +2m range

- deals bonus damage equal to (intelligence+0.1)

 

There is a limit on how many skills a character can have at a time eg. 20 Additional restrictions on how many of each type of skill a character can be introduced for balance if required. eg: only 2 slots available for healing skills. Some skills require a specific weapon to be equipped or they cannot be used eg. shield bash will require a shield to be equipped. 

 

To respec all you have to do is unlearn a skill and use a skill book to learn another skill to take its place. 

 

A crafting discipline called teaching or tome making or something could also be introduced which allows people to make a skill book of any skill which they have currently learnt. Mats such as paper and magical inks/fluids will also be required to create a skill book.

 

Advantages:

- not a huge power gap between new players and vets -> casual friendly

- constant supply/consumption = good economy

- meaningful crafting discipline

- character customisation/uniqueness

- hunting for new/better skills books is something for players to do

-  respecing is a slow but fluid process -> characters will actually have character. your archer friend wont suddenly be a mage the next time you see him - he will be an arcane archer or some weird hybrid 0_0

 

 

 

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

10/05/12 6:40:34 AM#2

I would not reduce the powergap between veterans and newbies. It creates a gap between those who have time to grind good skill books or money for them and those who don't.

You would also see the price of good skills (balance wise) go up. So you would see which skill is OP at any given time from the price of the skill book. And I hope you don't think the cost skill books is a sensible way to balance skills.

Also, I've never liked games where you had to loot skills, because then you can't plan your build. You just "make do" with what you have and frankly that is not good enough. With good luck you can get the build you want, but with bad luck you would have to bleed all your savings to get it.

Balance updates would also directly affect the market which is a bit problematic.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  bishbosh2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 66

 
OP  10/05/12 7:22:04 AM#3
Originally posted by Quirhid

I would not reduce the powergap between veterans and newbies. It creates a gap between those who have time to grind good skill books or money for them and those who don't.

You would also see the price of good skills (balance wise) go up. So you would see which skill is OP at any given time from the price of the skill book. And I hope you don't think the cost skill books is a sensible way to balance skills.

Also, I've never liked games where you had to loot skills, because then you can't plan your build. You just "make do" with what you have and frankly that is not good enough. With good luck you can get the build you want, but with bad luck you would have to bleed all your savings to get it.

Balance updates would also directly affect the market which is a bit problematic.

Thanks for having a look at my idea.

I think the power gap will be less because first of all there are no levels. Secondly there should be no good or bad skill books ideally (ofc fancy skills > standard skills). People who spend more time playing the game will be able to switch specs more often and experience more variety whereas people who dont play much will not experience as much variety and choice . It is just a case of horizontal progression  instead of vertical progression.

The standard version of skills would be fairly easy to acquire so you can pretty much make whatever build you want without too much effort. You can also trade for the skill books that you want. I dont think this is a very good arguement tbh - it is like saying that heavy armor shouldnt drop if you play a light armor class. You just sell skillbooks you dont need and purchase the ones you want just like you do with items. 

The price of skills is not intended to be the same across the board. Skills in demand will cost more- that is the intention. Wanna play FotM builds ? Be prepared to empty your wallet. I think it will create more variety in builds. You will have builds for rich people and builds for poor people and builds for people in between.

I think balance updates affecting the market is a good thing. Smart players will see them incoming and they will be able to profit. It just adds more depth to the game in my opinion.

 

  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3316

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

10/05/12 7:37:03 AM#4

Seriously ? Nothing. Nada. Nix. Niente. Rien.

There is just nothing original about whats proposed here.

And "you can only learn X skills" is not a base for an even so remotely balanced rulesystem.

 

  bishbosh2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 66

 
OP  10/05/12 7:44:36 AM#5
Originally posted by Adamantine

Seriously ? Nothing. Nada. Nix. Niente. Rien.

There is just nothing original about whats proposed here.

And "you can only learn X skills" is not a base for an even so remotely balanced rulesystem.

 

could you name a game which has/had a similar skill system?

 

most games have a limit on how many skills you have at one time. im pretty sure allowing players to have access to all the abilities at one time would defeat the whole point of having builds.... it would be balanced though i guess...

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

10/05/12 7:46:33 AM#6
Originally posted by bishbosh2
Originally posted by Quirhid

The price of skills is not intended to be the same across the board. Skills in demand will cost more- that is the intention. Wanna play FotM builds ? Be prepared to empty your wallet. I think it will create more variety in builds. You will have builds for rich people and builds for poor people and builds for people in between.

I think you slightly overlook the effects of your system. You see, when only the rich can afford the OP builds, they have an advantage against the poor (on top of being wealthier). Sure the poor will broaden the variety by playing only what they can afford, but the rich will continue to have that advantage over them, because the best builds will always be also the most expensive ones.

And you don't want to create that gap. There is too much emphasis on wealth in that system imo.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5515

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

10/05/12 7:48:19 AM#7
Originally posted by bishbosh2
Originally posted by Adamantine
 

could you name a game which has/had a similar skill system?

Path of the Exile and Sacred had a system similar to yours but not exactly like it IIRC.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12126

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

10/05/12 8:15:06 AM#8
Originally posted by bishbosh2

This skill system is intended for use in a sandbox style game but will also work in themepark games. There are no character levels.

Skills are learnt through skill books which can be found like regular loot. Skills books are consumed upon use. Just like swords and shields and other items skills books can have randomnly generated effects/bonuses. 

example:

 

fireball:

- deals (weapon_damage + intelligence) *1.2

- 30m range

 

epic fireball for cool people:

- deals (weapon_damage + intelligence) * 1.2

- 30m range

- +2m range

- deals bonus damage equal to (intelligence+0.1)

 

There is a limit on how many skills a character can have at a time eg. 20 Additional restrictions on how many of each type of skill a character can be introduced for balance if required. eg: only 2 slots available for healing skills. Some skills require a specific weapon to be equipped or they cannot be used eg. shield bash will require a shield to be equipped. 

 

To respec all you have to do is unlearn a skill and use a skill book to learn another skill to take its place. 

 

A crafting discipline called teaching or tome making or something could also be introduced which allows people to make a skill book of any skill which they have currently learnt. Mats such as paper and magical inks/fluids will also be required to create a skill book.

 

Advantages:

- not a huge power gap between new players and vets -> casual friendly

- constant supply/consumption = good economy

- meaningful crafting discipline

- character customisation/uniqueness

- hunting for new/better skills books is something for players to do

-  respecing is a slow but fluid process -> characters will actually have character. your archer friend wont suddenly be a mage the next time you see him - he will be an arcane archer or some weird hybrid 0_0

There's nothing really new there. UO and AC spell learning systems are very similar to what you have but without the restriction. Whatever the case, the most likely scenarios would be that you quickly reach a point where either everyone has access to whatever 'cool people' skills they need.

Another thing worth considering the the difference between need and want. Guild Wars was very good at balancing that when it came to skills. The opposite would be the skill runes of Shadowbane, which were skills that players could travel the game world to acquire, but that other players could control or covet. This was eventually changed because players felt they were blocked from having what they needed to effectively build their character. Now, if your game isn't a PVP game, this is far less of an issue, but still of concern when designing availability of the skill books. 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

10/05/12 9:32:55 AM#9

im all for basic manipulation of spell paramaters as long as it stays balanced to the original. I would also require some sort of organization or home facility to do your research on making these changes.

i dont like your respec system because it doesnt involve any gameplay.

I would make it part of the gameplay and not just some boring rule (this applies to everything...its my theme..)

so i would support systems where you join an organization and unlock various forms of respeccing, and the higher you go with it the more flexibility you get or even systems where you develop your wn training facility in your home and this gives you the power to respec. you upgrade the the trainign facility to allow different modes.. i.e magic.

everything you hand to the player with no gameplay attached is wasted content. Let them earn it. Thats why they play.

  Heinz130

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 227

War...war never change

10/05/12 11:40:36 AM#10

There is already perfect skill/progrecion concept...The Secret War

The problem is the skills "themselfs" and the combat system of the game is just not fun,plus the diference of power btw the players bsides the poor skills table are zero,its all equipment based,and that sux

Like OP says,there shuld be also an atribute influence moreover,a way to manage that,like 6 atributes,20 points to distribute,something like D&DO or SHADOWRUN...

Im also watching for archeage system,its class based,but you can build your own 100% personal class

 

WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ys
FH1942 best tanker for 4years
Playing WWII OL for some years untill now
many other for some months

  User Deleted
10/05/12 12:19:57 PM#11
Originally posted by bishbosh2
Originally posted by Adamantine

Seriously ? Nothing. Nada. Nix. Niente. Rien.

There is just nothing original about whats proposed here.

And "you can only learn X skills" is not a base for an even so remotely balanced rulesystem.

 

could you name a game which has/had a similar skill system?

 

most games have a limit on how many skills you have at one time. im pretty sure allowing players to have access to all the abilities at one time would defeat the whole point of having builds.... it would be balanced though i guess...

Fate has a system similar.

  User Deleted
10/05/12 12:31:17 PM#12
Originally posted by bishbosh2

This skill system is intended for use in a sandbox style game but will also work in themepark games. There are no character levels.

Skills are learnt through skill books which can be found like regular loot. Skills books are consumed upon use. Just like swords and shields and other items skills books can have randomnly generated effects/bonuses. 

example:

 

fireball:

- deals (weapon_damage + intelligence) *1.2

- 30m range

 

epic fireball for cool people:

- deals (weapon_damage + intelligence) * 1.2

- 30m range

- +2m range

- deals bonus damage equal to (intelligence+0.1)

 

There is a limit on how many skills a character can have at a time eg. 20 Additional restrictions on how many of each type of skill a character can be introduced for balance if required. eg: only 2 slots available for healing skills. Some skills require a specific weapon to be equipped or they cannot be used eg. shield bash will require a shield to be equipped. 

 

To respec all you have to do is unlearn a skill and use a skill book to learn another skill to take its place. 

 

A crafting discipline called teaching or tome making or something could also be introduced which allows people to make a skill book of any skill which they have currently learnt. Mats such as paper and magical inks/fluids will also be required to create a skill book.

 

Advantages:

- not a huge power gap between new players and vets -> casual friendly

- constant supply/consumption = good economy

- meaningful crafting discipline

- character customisation/uniqueness

- hunting for new/better skills books is something for players to do

-  respecing is a slow but fluid process -> characters will actually have character. your archer friend wont suddenly be a mage the next time you see him - he will be an arcane archer or some weird hybrid 0_0

 

 

 

I think the perfect system is a mix of Asherons Call, TESO and Titan Quest. 

 

You use experience earned to raise the level of a school from 1-300 (Asherons Call) and within each school of magic you can branch up a skill tree (TQ) and all weapons become their own school and a seperat system which get better with use and you are limited to the first 4 abilities for weapons (TESO).

 

So for example you could spend XP to raise Necromancy from 10 to 11 which would increase your Inteligence by 2, health by 10 and spell power by 4.  and whenever you reachy a threshold (an example would be 5 points into necromancy) you have the option to either put another point into necromancy or into a specific skill.