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General Gaming  » BioWare is dead. Electronic Arts (EA) is all thats left :-(

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88 posts found
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

 
OP  10/04/12 9:52:49 PM#1

Following a stellar support from SWG fans, SWTOR was created, and it was met with a lackluster following.  SWTOR just didn't have elements that would actually make this game feel like Star Wars.  Sadly, it felt more like a WoW clone.  But it was a WoW clone:

-every area had resurrection spots (graveyards).
-players could fly between resurrection spots.
-every character had 3 talent trees.
-points could be allocated to any of the 3 threes.
-all in-game effort was designed around a collection of "tokens" (commendations).
-tokens would reward players in better gear.
-Raids would help to institute progression.
-Patches would elevate progression to make existing gear obsolete.
-Battlegrounds were added for small meaningless PVP battles.

-Battleground commendations could buy new PVP gear

-Many more, add your thoughts (did I miss some?) !



BioWare was sold in 2007 to EA, and this forever changed what anybody thinks of BioWare.  BioWare used to be their own company, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.  Heres the sales info:

EA buying BioWare/Pandemic for 860M

Oct 11, 2007

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-buying-bioware-pandemic-for-860m-6180818

Thursday afternoon, top publisher Electronic Arts announced that it will acquire VG Holding Corp., owner of BioWare/Pandemic.

 

The bulk of that 860 million dollars was BioWare, don't kid yourselves.

 

Employees are ditching "BioWare" like mad now, since BioWare is defunct.

 

The doctors, who founded BioWare in 1995, Ray Muzyka, and Greg Zeschuk have resigned.

Stephen Reid - Community manager, has been gone for awhile, because he was fired by EA (hence all the non-communication between gamers and fans).

Georg Zoeller - developer and active within the community

Rich Vogel - Executive Producer of SWTOR

Drew Karpyshyn - Lead Writer

Gordon Walton - former BioWare General Manager (Replaced by EA Matt Bromberg).  Major proponent for the alpha Hero engine.  Quit his job before SWTOR came to light (last laugh?).

Daniel Erickson - Most notable for going to computer/video game shows and telling us how this game would change our lives (and be awesome).

+many, many others.

 

BioWare is no longer a unique company putting out pure quality.  They are now EA, putting out "EA" quality.  EA quality is below the bar to many gamers, myself included.

 

Some people remaining in EA's BioWare office:

Gabe Amatangelo
Jamles Ohlen
Dallas Dickinson

 

These are the people left to represent SWTOR?  Oh .. someone help us.
 

 

 

 

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  JobeArthur

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 39

10/05/12 7:57:27 AM#2

Well for me I figured Bioware was dead with the release of DA2, I know some people say Bioware was done for with the release of ME2, I myself didn't mind ME2 as I kinda liked the FPS/RPG hybrid style for ME2, but i will agree that ME1 with the focus of RPG with a FPS shooter feel was amazing and just a better game.

I was so hyped up for TOR as i love Star Wars and loved KOTOR, and fell in love with DA Origins.... Yeah my hype meter was off the chart considering 3 out of 5 of my favorite games of all time came from Bioware so all was good... Then DA2 hit and i was like uhhhhhhh what is this crap??, and started hoping it was just some lame cash grab as TOR was becoming the most costly MMO made to date. From that moment on I was loaded with anxiety about TOR, then the beta invite and I realized all my fears soon to become reality.

Bioware is no more just another brand name for EA to hustle its crap through, and what bothered me the most about it, was the endless lies that come out of thier mouths about everything. At first it angered me now its comic relief and I rather enjoy all the double talking BS, they dont get my money now and its pretty safe for me to say not in the future either so its not my problem.

As for the people that are left.

Gabe is just a moron and has no idea or talent, Im starting to think that this man has taken butt kissing to whole new level that humanity never thought possible as there is no other explanation avail at this time why this guy has been able to work on two major projects and repeat almost everything that went wrong with the first one. Its almost fun to watch in a sick way.

Mr Ohlen is delusional at best and extremely arrogant.. Im personally creeped out by dude tbh.

Dallas NGE nothing more to be said about him...

Bioware is dead.

 

 

 

 

 

  revy66

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/10
Posts: 470

10/05/12 8:01:32 AM#3
Source for Bioware being defunct?
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/05/12 8:06:11 AM#4
Origin
Bullfrog
Maxis
Westwood
Firaxis
Mythic
Bioware

Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

10/05/12 8:11:16 AM#5
Gabe amantelgo is to bioware as Jeff hickman was to mythic. Not particularly talented guy, but knows how to get ahead in a corporate set up.

When mythic was just mythic, hickman was a CSR! Following EA buy out he managed to climb the greasy pole, and end up lead game designer.
  erictlewis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

10/05/12 8:27:13 AM#6

I don't know why folks want to continue to call it bioware,it should be called eaware as nothing is left of the old bioware.

 

  Bynt

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/12
Posts: 35

10/05/12 8:39:32 AM#7

You do realize that when a company like electronic arts Buys another company like Bioware (or whatever the holding company is named), that the top management will be leaving very shortly afterwards?  There is a honeymoon/adjustment phase, but then those people will be leaving as there is New management now.  Not sure why anybody is surprised when a bigger company buys a smaller company that the leadership will be transitioning out soon.

Its the whole concept of a ship can't have two captains.  As was mentioned in this thread already, several companies have been bought by EA, all of them have had the leadership transition out shortly there after.  The funny thing is people calling fail for this when that was how the buy out would most likely be structured.  New leadership won't be the leaders that employees look to for guidance until the old leaders are gone. 

Take Mythic Entertainment for example, how long did Mark Jacobs stay around after EA purchased them?  Less than a year, not because the game did poorly, but because the buyout would be structured that way.  Same thing with Bioware, it was only a matter of time before leadership was gone.  Do people thing the doctors at Bioware were actually still writing stories for the games?  They haven't written anything for a long time, the people doing all the leg work still work there and are still producing, why EA bought them, to get the talent working for them.  Like Jeff Hickman, used to work for Mythic, now he's working on SWTOR, still around and still doing good stuff, but he was purchased talent.

And don't forget, that when a company buys another company, they have to protect themselves and prevent the old owners from immediately starting a new company and stealing back all the employees that were just purchased, which is why many of these people go do something else for a while.  Its a non-competition clause.

 

  Slampig

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2381

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

10/05/12 8:42:18 AM#8
Originally posted by Karteli

Following a stellar support from SWG fans, SWTOR was created, and it was met with a lackluster following.  SWTOR just didn't have elements that would actually make this game feel like Star Wars.  Sadly, it felt more like a WoW clone.  But it was a WoW clone:

-every area had resurrection spots (graveyards).
-players could fly between resurrection spots.
-every character had 3 talent trees.
-points could be allocated to any of the 3 threes.
-all in-game effort was designed around a collection of "tokens" (commendations).
-tokens would reward players in better gear.
-Raids would help to institute progression.
-Patches would elevate progression to make existing gear obsolete.
-Battlegrounds were added for small meaningless PVP battles.

-Battleground commendations could buy new PVP gear

-Many more, add your thoughts (did I miss some?) !



BioWare was sold in 2007 to EA, and this forever changed what anybody thinks of BioWare.  BioWare used to be their own company, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.  Heres the sales info:

EA buying BioWare/Pandemic for 860M

Oct 11, 2007

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-buying-bioware-pandemic-for-860m-6180818

Thursday afternoon, top publisher Electronic Arts announced that it will acquire VG Holding Corp., owner of BioWare/Pandemic.

 

The bulk of that 860 million dollars was BioWare, don't kid yourselves.

 

Employees are ditching "BioWare" like mad now, since BioWare is defunct.

 

The doctors, who founded BioWare in 1995, Ray Muzyka, and Greg Zeschuk have resigned.

Stephen Reid, Community manager, has been gone for awhile, because he was fired by EA (hence all the non-communication between gamers and fans).

Gordon Walton - former BioWare General Manager (Replaced by EA Matt Bromberg).  Major proponent for the alpha Hero engine.  Quit his job before SWTOR came to light (last laugh?).

Daniel Erickson - Most notable for going to computer/video game shows and telling us how this game would change our lives (and be awesome).

 

BioWare is no longer a unique company putting out pure quality.  They are now EA, putting out "EA" quality.  EA quality is below the bar to many gamers, myself included.

 

Some people remaining in EA's BioWare office:

Gabe Amatangelo
Jamles Ohlen
Dallas Dickinson

 

I don't recall these people being party to BioWare .. they seem more like SOE, around the time of the NGE.  These are the people left to represent SWTOR?  Oh .. someone help us.
 

 

 

 

 

Is that so?

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Harafnir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/18/04
Posts: 1363

10/05/12 8:45:43 AM#9
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Origin
Bullfrog
Maxis
Westwood
Firaxis
Mythic
Bioware

Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

This.... Bioware was not the first, and it wont be the last. As long as people buy crap from EA, they can continue to buy good companies and milk them for money, then scrap them. only way to stop  EA is to not touch anything with EA on it. They have destroyed the absolutly best companies in the business for decades!

"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"

  korent1991

Elite Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

10/05/12 9:01:45 AM#10
Originally posted by Harafnir
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Origin
Bullfrog
Maxis
Westwood
Firaxis
Mythic
Bioware

Who's EA going to buy up and ruin next then?

EA - the poo fingered midas of the gaming industry

This.... Bioware was not the first, and it wont be the last. As long as people buy crap from EA, they can continue to buy good companies and milk them for money, then scrap them. only way to stop  EA is to not touch anything with EA on it. They have destroyed the absolutly best companies in the business for decades!

Well... it's not just like EA did this all by them selves... First they had to be allowed to buy a company or more than 50% of their stocks by the original owners or stock holders.

Tho it doesn't change the fact that EA is a pile of rotten garbage ran by people who see and want nothing but $.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Thillian

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3221

10/05/12 9:05:42 AM#11

Bioware died at the moment when they parted with Black Isle and released their first own game - Neverwinter Nights. Every game thereafter including NWN went downhill, more linear, more cut-scenes, more soap opera with your companies, more filler combat.

Baldur's Gate 1 was fantastic, Baldur's Gate 2 was alright, thanks to Black Isle and Bryan Fargo rather than Bioware.

REALITY CHECK

  Saur0n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 74

10/05/12 9:06:45 AM#12
All publishers are what I like to call, "Big Gaming".  They are responsible for the state of games right now and the people that run them are NOT gamers.  They are opportunists who want to get rich quick.   Once WoW showed a massive profit these trust fund babies came in to the scene and now we are left with this synthetic crap.  It happens in every aspect of the entertainment industry and it needs to be stopped.
  bobfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1628

10/05/12 9:08:43 AM#13

SWTOR was SWTOR long before EA came on board.

 

You can denounce EA as the devil all you like, but the only people to blame for the current state of BioWare and the games they've released in the last five years is BIOWARE themselves!

 

Stop thinking of these companies as single hive minded entities and start thinking of them as a collection of individuals that all think for themselves. They may have procedures they follow but it is the people that make the games,  not the badge on the box. BioWare people screwed up on SWTOR, not the EA cash machine behind it.

 

And those BioWare people we've seen leave since the game launched are the ones that had the last say on everything, their responsibility, their failures.

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6503

"I fight so you don't have to."

10/05/12 9:10:51 AM#14
Yes but is it not surprising. EA has done the same to soo many other companies, so it was more or less expected.

  Saur0n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 74

10/05/12 9:11:51 AM#15
Yeah, I'm sure their investors had nothing to do with the dev process....
  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2760

10/05/12 9:17:42 AM#16
Originally posted by JobeArthur

Well for me I figured Bioware was dead with the release of DA2

That seemed to be the point when BW lost it's impeccable reputation.  It was the first chink in the armor so to speak.

 

I'm sure EA was a horrible influence, but the products released by BW just weren't of the same quality starting with DA2.

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

10/05/12 9:18:49 AM#17
ME2 & the pathetic DA2 shoulda been clear signs that the quality & care that made Bioware games so great was evaporating. SWTOR showed us the well has run completely dry.
  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

10/05/12 9:26:51 AM#18
Originally posted by bobfish

SWTOR was SWTOR long before EA came on board.

 

You can denounce EA as the devil all you like, but the only people to blame for the current state of BioWare and the games they've released in the last five years is BIOWARE themselves!

 

Stop thinking of these companies as single hive minded entities and start thinking of them as a collection of individuals that all think for themselves. They may have procedures they follow but it is the people that make the games,  not the badge on the box. BioWare people screwed up on SWTOR, not the EA cash machine behind it.

 

And those BioWare people we've seen leave since the game launched are the ones that had the last say on everything, their responsibility, their failures.

I bet if Bioware were operating without EA, the game would hav released 1 or 2 years later, when it had been developed more.  EA pushed the game to be released before Bioware were ready.

  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 1003

10/05/12 9:44:12 AM#19
Originally posted by Bynt

You do realize that when a company like electronic arts Buys another company like Bioware (or whatever the holding company is named), that the top management will be leaving very shortly afterwards?  There is a honeymoon/adjustment phase, but then those people will be leaving as there is New management now.  Not sure why anybody is surprised when a bigger company buys a smaller company that the leadership will be transitioning out soon.

Its the whole concept of a ship can't have two captains.  As was mentioned in this thread already, several companies have been bought by EA, all of them have had the leadership transition out shortly there after.  The funny thing is people calling fail for this when that was how the buy out would most likely be structured.  New leadership won't be the leaders that employees look to for guidance until the old leaders are gone. 

Take Mythic Entertainment for example, how long did Mark Jacobs stay around after EA purchased them?  Less than a year, not because the game did poorly, but because the buyout would be structured that way.  Same thing with Bioware, it was only a matter of time before leadership was gone.  Do people thing the doctors at Bioware were actually still writing stories for the games?  They haven't written anything for a long time, the people doing all the leg work still work there and are still producing, why EA bought them, to get the talent working for them.  Like Jeff Hickman, used to work for Mythic, now he's working on SWTOR, still around and still doing good stuff, but he was purchased talent.

And don't forget, that when a company buys another company, they have to protect themselves and prevent the old owners from immediately starting a new company and stealing back all the employees that were just purchased, which is why many of these people go do something else for a while.  Its a non-competition clause.

 

yes they gather talents, but what happen when the new leader can't lead? the new talents are not at they full potencial, big companys noramlly don't let criativy thinking running, because that means risk and its something they don't like.

 

the moment EA get bioware you could notice this would go south and fast, first ME2, nothing like the first one very annoying keep a little of the history so people at least could keep going for story, then came ME3 who butcherd half things who have on previous games both in gameplay and story. da2 I don't even need to say anything..... then tor,

 

so jsut stop and think when was the last game they did launch before EA put his hands on?

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1187

10/05/12 11:36:39 AM#20

As far as SWTOR goes I wouldn't call it a WoW clone; a WoW wannabe sure but it simply wasn't good enough imo.

The key for me however lies in what EA has been for many, many years.

From memory the cost of buying Bioware was $620M cash and c. $240M in "performance related" stock options - the cost of which were borne by the EA shareholders - valued initially at c. $860M. Whether those options were subsequently worth $240M won't alter the fact that key employees will have become wealthy.

The purchase of Bioware/Pandemic was one of many, many take-overs; more recent ones have included Pogo, Playfish, Popcap.

This culture of constant take-overs - all classed as one-offs in EA's results of course thus hiding their true cost - increased EA's sales amd market penetration etc. but the growth has been an illusion.

1. The cumulative cost has put EA's balance sheet under pressure; cost cutting, games released early, studios being closed, staff laid off.  Very few of EA's acquisitions seem to have justified the price paid.

2. What drives key employees who are now comfortably wealthy?  

3. The cost cutting has resulted in fewer titles being released - to improve quality in  theory; in reality innovation is no more, big titles have to appeal to the masses.

And the big, blockbuster type titles are expected to deliver big time; so employees will become cautious, development will slow as people strive to take no risks. If in doubt flag it up the chain of management will, I suspect, be the  order of the day.

And as a result EA is now very dependent on a very small number of titles: FIFA, Battlefield and The Sims probably being the key titles. Any sure thing has to deliver though - increasing the pressure. SWTOR hasn't done so; the last Need for Speed didn't; the next Baseball revamp has been delayed again. And with external factors e.g. the first tranche of NHL games cancelled; an increasingly crowded social sphere (another warning from Zynga).

Tthe future doesn't look good. 

Add up the cost of all the acquisitions and EA should have a much higher stock valuation. It doesn't and a take-over doesn't seem likely.

 

 

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