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News & Features Discussion  » [Review] Guild Wars 2: Raising the Bar

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508 posts found
  sbrite10

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

10/04/12 10:42:57 PM#301
Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.
  enntense

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/12
Posts: 15

10/04/12 10:45:36 PM#302

I gotta tell you..It's painfully obvious the writer isn't lvl 80.


A few major flaws in no paticular order..


1.  You got 80 sat in 1 spot in or for 3 days and bought yerself an entire outfit of exotics and weapons off the auction.


2.  You discovered that outfit you got costs 15 times less than cultural armor and has better stats..


3.  You discovered that outfit you got is better than the dungeon token gear.


4.  You discovered that gear you bought is better than the pvp gear..


/5 You found out ledgendary weapons dont do any more damage than the one you got off the auction for 2 gold...


6.  You found out WvW is regurgitated warhammer, and whoever shows up quickest with the most people wins..


7.  You found out in WvW that its more important to carry supplies to build stuff than target enemy players, so dont spec any offense skills, after all the only thing important is not being killed while you carry supplies.


8.  You found out the people who joined your group for dungeons deliberatly reduced their dps, hp, and armor so they could get Find Magic..I.E>  they have loot specced...


9.  You found out 1/3 of events after lvl 60 don't work....


So in summery...you hit 80 and in 3 days got the best equipment you are ever going to get...whoopie..


Saving grace?...its free..after you blew 60 bucks initially. And..Its a great leveling up game.


  sbrite10

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

10/04/12 10:48:19 PM#303

Originally posted by stratasaurus

GW2 has no longevity.  No MMO will ever again have longevity until(or unless,  it could never happen successfully) there is one that comes out with ever changing user created content.  If that does not happen there will never be another MMO that people do not gobble up and spit out and move on.  This game for sure does not have it, no Wow expansion will have it.  Neverwinter Nights?  Maybe but certainly not GW2 on the grand scale there is nothing in this game that will keep people playing for a long period of time.  And no WvW pvp will not do it.  People that love doing PvP over and over again have largely left MMO's and moved to games like LOL.  Sure some will stick around and do it but not in any huge numbers.  6 months down the road people will be bored and ANET has a 0% chance of being able to put out content quick enough.



 


The game has plenty of Longevity.Maybe not for you but for plenty of others.What exactly is your definition of Longevity?Thats one of the dumbest arguments I see in forums.Just because you dont like it the game has no longevity.You can create alts.You can participate in WVW or Competitive PVP besides all the events that will be continually added.The game has only been out a month.These coments are rediculous.I get that its your opinion but dont state it as if its fact.Whats good for the Goose isnt always good for the Gander.I played GW1 for years and It didnt have half the content this game has.


 


 


  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2407

10/04/12 10:48:53 PM#304
Originally posted by sbrite10
Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.

No, it doesn't.
There's not a lot of player interedependence. There's no bonus or benefit from grouping vs auto grouping. There's no death penalty encouraging people to band together.

People almost always need tools and incentive to socialize. Left to their own devices, they'll solo and breed and antisocial atmosphere. It's happened in every MMO that's made it easier to solo than group. DAoC used to be insane group oriented and social. Then soloing became the fastest way to level and bam, no more socializing at all.

The game shapes the players, believe it or not.

  User Deleted
10/04/12 10:55:56 PM#305
Originally posted by sbrite10
Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.

Well, that's partly true. The social systems are there, but the need to use them is gone.

Take away the forcing function and many people will choose not to socialize.

Much like SWTOR, GW2 is a single-player online role playing game. Sadly, I think this might be the wave of the future for MMOs. *sniff*

  sbrite10

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 73

10/04/12 10:56:39 PM#306

Originally posted by DavisFlight


Originally posted by sbrite10

Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.

No, it doesn't.

There's not a lot of player interedependence. There's no bonus or benefit from grouping vs auto grouping. There's no death penalty encouraging people to band together.


People almost always need tools and incentive to socialize. Left to their own devices, they'll solo and breed and antisocial atmosphere. It's happened in every MMO that's made it easier to solo than group. DAoC used to be insane group oriented and social. Then soloing became the fastest way to level and bam, no more socializing at all.


The game shapes the players, believe it or not.



 


Um yes there is.You get bonus EXP for being in Manually created groups.Its the People my friend not the game.Yes it offers a way for those who want to solo to do that but it gives equal time to those who want to group and gives them bonus EXP for doing it.There are any number of ways to group with people be it with a guild or a PUG.If you dont do either its your fault your not being social not the games.Pretty simple and starightforward.Everyone expects these games to hold there hands these days.If thats what you want go play WOW.


 


  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2407

10/04/12 11:07:55 PM#307
Originally posted by sbrite10

Originally posted by DavisFlight


Originally posted by sbrite10

Love how people call it anti-social.Its not anti-social.Its the people playing it.the game has all the same social systems every other MMO out there has.

No, it doesn't.

There's not a lot of player interedependence. There's no bonus or benefit from grouping vs auto grouping. There's no death penalty encouraging people to band together.


People almost always need tools and incentive to socialize. Left to their own devices, they'll solo and breed and antisocial atmosphere. It's happened in every MMO that's made it easier to solo than group. DAoC used to be insane group oriented and social. Then soloing became the fastest way to level and bam, no more socializing at all.


The game shapes the players, believe it or not.



 

Um yes there is.You get bonus EXP for being in Manually created groups. Leveling is so quick and the bonus is so slight that this isn't an incentive to anyone Its the People my friend not the game. Over 13 years of observing how social behavior shifts based on a game's mechanics, I beg to differ. A game can have the same people in it, as DAoC did, but as soon as the mechanics shift, the mentality of the gamer shifts. Yes it offers a way for those who want to solo to do that but it gives equal time to those who want to group and gives them bonus EXP for doing it. Let's be real here, there's a lot more reason to solo than to group. A smigen of bonus xp isn't real incentive. There are any number of ways to group with people be it with a guild or a PUG.If you dont do either its your fault your not being social not the games. I'm being plenty social, but no one else is. Most people don't even respond to chat, they just carry on like bots. Pretty simple and starightforward.Everyone expects these games to hold there hands these days.If thats what you want go play WOW. GW2 holds your hand more than most MMOs, that's not the issue here.


 

 

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2773

I actually still like MMORPGs

10/04/12 11:13:43 PM#308

I believe I already mentioned this to you in guild chat before but....


 


HOW MUCH DID ANET PAY YOU!?!?! RAWR RAWR !@#$% ROFLMAO FAIL MMO SWTOR WOWCLONE F2P ROFLMAO RAWR RAWR !@#$!#$ FAIL FAIL FAIL SANDBOX SANDBOX


^basically sums up the MMORPG.com forum experience.


  Randayn

Elite Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 649

10/04/12 11:14:52 PM#309
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Randayn

I'd say it was more a grandfather to it...kinda like Iggy Pop or the Rolling Stones or even Chuck Berry is to Punk Rock....they kinda made the first push.  I believe GW2 has gone and pushed it over the edge....to the point of no return.  Now we can all be plugged in with no sight of a red pill anywhere...

lol melodrama much?

not at all...ratings mean alot more than you might make them out to mean....not to the gamer, but to the companies vying for power in the MMO industry, yes.  Why?  Because they aren't stupid....and they want to make money.  They will make what they think people want, which ratings play a big part in.  I don't think it's melodramatic to say what I said above....I think it's realistic.

and if companies are going to start going the way of no quest hubs and non raid type endgame and actually trying something new for an overall game design I welcome it with open arms instead of suffering through the same old same old every year.. GW2 is a breath of fresh air to me and many themepark fans

I disagree on no quest hubs.  Hubs are where you can get a quest.  not necessarily where a person is to give you a quest.  There are plenty of "hubs" in GW2.  Also, addition by subtraction doesn't work in this instance.  

If a game is made to reach max level quickly (within a month) then you can't just say, "Uh...we're gonna be cool...and...and not have an endgame!!!"....and expect loud roars and cheers.  why remove something that didn't need to be removed?  Especially when no new "innovations" were presented to take it's place?

game was only made to reach 80 fast if that's how you want to play it(which is fine).. i'm sitting at 191 hours and highest level character is 44.. also what aside from raids is GW2 lacking in the endgame department?

And what are the "hubs" of GW2?

walk into an area and a quest will be available...unless the enemy mob is a boss that's been set to move around or it's a quest where you protect a dude and his donkey, that particular quest will always be in that particular place, thus creating a quest hub.

game was made to reach 80 fast.  period.  I can open and shut a peanut butter jar for 15 extra minutes, doesnt mean the jar was only meant to be open fast if I want it to.....

  chryses

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

10/04/12 11:15:13 PM#310

It's not for everyone but the review summed it up perfectly for how I feel about the game.

There is a lot of polish in this game and its evident with all the underwater elements.  It is another world and not just tacked on. 

Besides gameplay etc. The biggest break through is the streamlined approach to inventory. I swear I have quit games before because of the running around to store stuff.  Being able to harvest and send to bank, use trade anywhere, sell anywhere, access mats from bank at craft station etc etc. 

All of this has taken away the boredom of running back and forth every 5 min.  How many times do you need to quit a dungeon run because you have no fking inventory space!!!!!

I just want to finish work and get home and play my Engineer...

  umie214

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 125

10/04/12 11:17:25 PM#311

Originally posted by stratasaurus

GW2 has no longevity.  No MMO will ever again have longevity until(or unless,  it could never happen successfully) there is one that comes out with ever changing user created content.  If that does not happen there will never be another MMO that people do not gobble up and spit out and move on.  



 


funny enough, they just posted a blog today about how their live teams will be doing just that. 


  Randayn

Elite Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 649

10/04/12 11:21:25 PM#312
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Originally posted by Randayn


Innovation has 1 definition and can be easily identified.  There is nothing subjective about my statement.  This game does not bring with it "innovation"....If I go and change the curtain on my window from ruffled to straight and short, does that mean I get a score of 10 for innovation??  Well, that's exactly what GW2 did, as well as follow in the footsteps of WOW by dumbing down the genre even more than it already was dumbed down.



 

Don´t worry, just take another MMO site off the credibility list, like I just did.


Innovation 10, woah this is a real kicker.


 


Thanks to this review, it´s good to know there will never be something else or better to expect from the MMO genre.


 


If GW2 is really the absolute "10" peak of innovation I guess it´s time to quit the genre alltogether and say goodbye to egg collecting, cow feeding and zergs. At the end I never liked Facebook games either.

By giving it a 10 for innovation he's not saying that's all the innovation any game is ever going to have from here on out.  He's saying the differences this particular game has over current games is way better than pretty much anything he has seen to this point.  That doesn't  mean a game won't come along in the future and be just as innovative as GW2 in a different way.

 

Besides, his overall score was 9.3.  That leaves room for improvement, I'd say.

 

But, if disagreeing with someone over how they rate a game makes you want to quit playing MMOs, I'll be glad I won't run into you in an MMO in the future.

the issue still remains that you cannot give a game a score for innovation unless they have actually innovated.  Jump quests and multi-user mat nodes....that's what they innovated.  Nothing else was a brand new idea brought to the forefront.  

Don't say DE's because they are still quests (some of the worst actually) and you still have to go somewhere (a hub) to get them, you just dont have to talk with anyone.  Don't say personal story....SWTOR anyone?  Don't say lack of trinity...I played Champions Online at launch and there was no trinity....it was a zerg/respawn fest much like GW2.  

So please tell me what they've brought to the table that is entirely new and innovative?  Please....

Apparently you didn't read the definition of innovative that I posted earlier.  It's not only something new that qualifies, it's something different.  Entirely new would be inventive, not just innovative (although that would still qualify as innovative).

 

What GW2 brings to the table as innovative isn't that they get rid of questing altogether.  How would that be done in a MMO anyway?  It's how they present the questing that is innovative.  1. They give you a choice about whether you even want to do the quests (DEs are not meant to be quests, they are events that happen in the world).  You don't have to do the hearts at all if you don't want to.  There are other ways to level.  2.  When you do the hearts (quests), you don't even have to talk to the NPC to get the quest, just go to the area.  3. You have a choice in how you want to complete the quest; you can kill x, gather y, feed z, or a mix of all three.  4. You don't have to go back to the NPC to get your reward, it comes automatically once you fulfill the quest.

 

That's 4 innovations in just one aspect of the game.  Questing.  That's what makes it innovative, in part.  Earlier in this thread, I listed a bunch of other innovations the game has; I'm not going to list them again here.

 

Innovation is not necessarily doing something completely new, it's also doing something in a different way.  GW2 does much of what has been so familiar in MMOs in a different way.  That's innovative by definition.

Rift/WAR - DE's got their birthrite from these games...I sure didnt have to talk to the NPC's to start a PQ or to start a rift.

Ryzom - gave options on what you'd rather do in order to complete quests

Any Sandbox game and some Themepark games - dont require you to do quests to level

Presentation alone is not innovation.  Presentation utilzing a new method is innovation.  There are no new method's in GW2....cept for jump quests...that's their claim to faim...gratz ANET

 

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2407

10/04/12 11:40:09 PM#313
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Originally posted by Randayn


Innovation has 1 definition and can be easily identified.  There is nothing subjective about my statement.  This game does not bring with it "innovation"....If I go and change the curtain on my window from ruffled to straight and short, does that mean I get a score of 10 for innovation??  Well, that's exactly what GW2 did, as well as follow in the footsteps of WOW by dumbing down the genre even more than it already was dumbed down.



 

Don´t worry, just take another MMO site off the credibility list, like I just did.


Innovation 10, woah this is a real kicker.


 


Thanks to this review, it´s good to know there will never be something else or better to expect from the MMO genre.


 


If GW2 is really the absolute "10" peak of innovation I guess it´s time to quit the genre alltogether and say goodbye to egg collecting, cow feeding and zergs. At the end I never liked Facebook games either.

By giving it a 10 for innovation he's not saying that's all the innovation any game is ever going to have from here on out.  He's saying the differences this particular game has over current games is way better than pretty much anything he has seen to this point.  That doesn't  mean a game won't come along in the future and be just as innovative as GW2 in a different way.

 

Besides, his overall score was 9.3.  That leaves room for improvement, I'd say.

 

But, if disagreeing with someone over how they rate a game makes you want to quit playing MMOs, I'll be glad I won't run into you in an MMO in the future.

the issue still remains that you cannot give a game a score for innovation unless they have actually innovated.  Jump quests and multi-user mat nodes....that's what they innovated.  Nothing else was a brand new idea brought to the forefront.  

Don't say DE's because they are still quests (some of the worst actually) and you still have to go somewhere (a hub) to get them, you just dont have to talk with anyone.  Don't say personal story....SWTOR anyone?  Don't say lack of trinity...I played Champions Online at launch and there was no trinity....it was a zerg/respawn fest much like GW2.  

So please tell me what they've brought to the table that is entirely new and innovative?  Please....

Apparently you didn't read the definition of innovative that I posted earlier.  It's not only something new that qualifies, it's something different.  Entirely new would be inventive, not just innovative (although that would still qualify as innovative).

 

What GW2 brings to the table as innovative isn't that they get rid of questing altogether.  How would that be done in a MMO anyway?  It's how they present the questing that is innovative.  1. They give you a choice about whether you even want to do the quests (DEs are not meant to be quests, they are events that happen in the world).  You don't have to do the hearts at all if you don't want to.  There are other ways to level.  2.  When you do the hearts (quests), you don't even have to talk to the NPC to get the quest, just go to the area.  3. You have a choice in how you want to complete the quest; you can kill x, gather y, feed z, or a mix of all three.  4. You don't have to go back to the NPC to get your reward, it comes automatically once you fulfill the quest.

 

That's 4 innovations in just one aspect of the game.  Questing.  That's what makes it innovative, in part.  Earlier in this thread, I listed a bunch of other innovations the game has; I'm not going to list them again here.

 

Innovation is not necessarily doing something completely new, it's also doing something in a different way.  GW2 does much of what has been so familiar in MMOs in a different way.  That's innovative by definition.

Rift/WAR - DE's got their birthrite from these games...I sure didnt have to talk to the NPC's to start a PQ or to start a rift.

Ryzom - gave options on what you'd rather do in order to complete quests

Any Sandbox game and some Themepark games - dont require you to do quests to level

Presentation alone is not innovation.  Presentation utilzing a new method is innovation.  There are no new method's in GW2....cept for jump quests...that's their claim to faim...gratz ANET

 

Don't bother, they don't understand the distinction, and think the only MMos to exist before GW2 were WoWclones, and EQ.

  Stuka1000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 782

10/04/12 11:45:50 PM#314

Originally posted by Caldrin

 




Innovation at 10??




 




Ah i give up..





 


 Read  'Ooh! loads of advertising money, course we will give you a high score'


  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

10/04/12 11:47:33 PM#315
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Torvaldr

No, it's the first mmo where the entire quest system does not revolve around talking to npcs to start and gather the reward for quests.   It's the first mmo where the entire quest system offers multiple paths to completion for every non story based quest.

And for the love of god please stop talking like you have some special knowledge about early mmos.  I played Lineage very early on and while it was an amazing game, it like all the early mmos had a ton of huge flaws. I'm so glad that modern games don't try and strictly implement those mechanics.  So please speak just for yourself and stop speaking for the rest of us who played old school games.  You don't represent my point of view at all .

- signed an old school gamer who played mmos way before wow and thinks you're opinion is whacked.

My opinion over what is innovative is whacked? We're not dealing with opinions, we're dealing with facts. And the fact is, people claim GW2 inventing some things that they didn't. Just like pretend try to claim WoW invented rest experience or the auction house.

You have NO facts.  Show me a fact.  Just a pro-tip here: "wrong" isn't a fact unless you support it... you know, with facts.  Just in case you don't know which are facts and which of the above you posted are opinions I'll help you out.

Opinions: Wrong.  Wrong.  I know more about them than the majority of people here.  And the flaws in games like DAoC are like a pebble compared to the core corrupting flaws in games like WoW.  You seem to have played only one old school game, and not one of the better ones.  Ok, cool. I didn't like Lineage, so I'm glad too.   I never claimed to, but there are a TON of oldschool MMO vets of the same mindset as me

So here's the rest of your post, which aren't opinions, but also have no facts in them: Ok, I never brought up Lineage.

Well actually, you inferred it by making references to pre-wow games.

But note Iwas never defending the bad parts of those games, I'm defending the good parts.

Nope you weren't defending the bad parts.  You were glossing over them, while comparing the good parts to the bad parts of newer games.

Whether you like it or not Lineage was more successful than any of the other pre-wow games on your list.  But since you think you know more than the rest of us... well, yeah.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Toxia

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 1289

10/04/12 11:50:04 PM#316

Eww i'm still in masterwork gear there. All exotic now :D


~Taaz


The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  goemoe

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 150

10/04/12 11:56:32 PM#317
Good review. Has been fun to read. GW2 is the best MMO at time of release I ever played. (played all the big one since '99) Now they can show us over the next years, if they can keep up this title. Best development so far had EQ2 - for the first years. I really hope ArenaNet can stand up to it. :)
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7010

10/04/12 11:57:42 PM#318
Originally posted by DavisFlight

 

What GW2 brings to the table as innovative isn't that they get rid of questing altogether.  How would that be done in a MMO anyway?  It's how they present the questing that is innovative.  1. They give you a choice about whether you even want to do the quests (DEs are not meant to be quests, they are events that happen in the world).  You don't have to do the hearts at all if you don't want to.  There are other ways to level.  2.  When you do the hearts (quests), you don't even have to talk to the NPC to get the quest, just go to the area.  3. You have a choice in how you want to complete the quest; you can kill x, gather y, feed z, or a mix of all three.  4. You don't have to go back to the NPC to get your reward, it comes automatically once you fulfill the quest.

 

That's 4 innovations in just one aspect of the game.  Questing.  That's what makes it innovative, in part.  Earlier in this thread, I listed a bunch of other innovations the game has; I'm not going to list them again here.

 

Innovation is not necessarily doing something completely new, it's also doing something in a different way.  GW2 does much of what has been so familiar in MMOs in a different way.  That's innovative by definition.

Rift/WAR - DE's got their birthrite from these games...I sure didnt have to talk to the NPC's to start a PQ or to start a rift.

Ryzom - gave options on what you'd rather do in order to complete quests

Any Sandbox game and some Themepark games - dont require you to do quests to level

Presentation alone is not innovation.  Presentation utilzing a new method is innovation.  There are no new method's in GW2....cept for jump quests...that's their claim to faim...gratz ANET

 

Don't bother, they don't understand the distinction, and think the only MMos to exist before GW2 were WoWclones, and EQ.

Look, tire companies, bleech producers and tissue manufacturers "innovate" (sell) every year, better handling tread, brighter whites, and softer sqaures, every year. 

 

GW2's largest innovation was in marketing. "Redefining" (selling)  gold buying,  payed beta weekends, cash shops, game world (three separate worlds instead of one cohessive), and end game (exact same level cap structure as any other mmo,  without the content that supports more tiers.) 

 

You can debate innovation in questing all you want. I think GW2's biggest innovation is in the area above. These things will be GW2's legacy. 

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2407

10/05/12 12:00:48 AM#319
Originally posted by eric1000

Originally posted by Caldrin

 




Innovation at 10??




 




Ah i give up..





 

 Read  'Ooh! loads of advertising money, course we will give you a high score'

And meanwhile, SWTOR gets a high score in innovation and Vanguard gets... a 6. The reviewer even says "Well theres lots of innovation in Vanguard, but its so complicated!"

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2407

10/05/12 12:01:51 AM#320
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Torvaldr

No, it's the first mmo where the entire quest system does not revolve around talking to npcs to start and gather the reward for quests.   It's the first mmo where the entire quest system offers multiple paths to completion for every non story based quest.

And for the love of god please stop talking like you have some special knowledge about early mmos.  I played Lineage very early on and while it was an amazing game, it like all the early mmos had a ton of huge flaws. I'm so glad that modern games don't try and strictly implement those mechanics.  So please speak just for yourself and stop speaking for the rest of us who played old school games.  You don't represent my point of view at all .

- signed an old school gamer who played mmos way before wow and thinks you're opinion is whacked.

My opinion over what is innovative is whacked? We're not dealing with opinions, we're dealing with facts. And the fact is, people claim GW2 inventing some things that they didn't. Just like pretend try to claim WoW invented rest experience or the auction house.


Nope you weren't defending the bad parts.  You were glossing over them, while comparing the good parts to the bad parts of newer games.

 

Wrong, I was comparing questing in one game to questing in another. I was comparing RvR in one game to RvR in another.

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