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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Seems like GW2 has peaked on Xfire AND Raptr?

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48 posts found
  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

10/04/12 7:29:50 AM#21
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by smh_alot
Yeah, I know that Xfire only measures Xfire players, that's why I put Raptr stats here too, so trends as well as differences across tools can be determined. To me, it looks like the trend has changed, in contrast to the early years when internet and the MMORPG genre were still growing, nowadays you'll see everyone flocking to a new MMORPG right at launch instead of over the years and after a while a core playerbase remains.

That trend change happened about six years ago, heavily driven by the pre-order extras and the increased support of pre-ordering by Gamestop, EBGames, Best Buy and other chains.

It doesn't help that  the games (SWTOR, GW2, TERA, AOC, Aion, Rift......) have no staying power. None of the newer games seem to keep players entertained beyond the initial month or so.

  Entris38

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 184

10/04/12 7:30:06 AM#22

The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

 

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1534

10/04/12 7:33:21 AM#23
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Mothanos

I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
At what population is this date taken from ?

MoP sales 700k
GW2 sales 2.6 million

What does it say ?

Nada niente nothing.

keep trying tough.

What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

 

it's terribly inaccurate.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Entris38

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 184

10/04/12 7:35:06 AM#24
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by smh_alot
Yeah, I know that Xfire only measures Xfire players, that's why I put Raptr stats here too, so trends as well as differences across tools can be determined. To me, it looks like the trend has changed, in contrast to the early years when internet and the MMORPG genre were still growing, nowadays you'll see everyone flocking to a new MMORPG right at launch instead of over the years and after a while a core playerbase remains.

That trend change happened about six years ago, heavily driven by the pre-order extras and the increased support of pre-ordering by Gamestop, EBGames, Best Buy and other chains.

It doesn't help that  the games (SWTOR, GW2, TERA, AOC, Aion, Rift......) have no staying power. None of the newer games seem to keep players entertained beyond the initial month or so.

Sadly I don't think any game has "staying power", they are all treated like console games now. The genre really hasn't changed, much like every other genre. An mmo is an mmo, sandbox or thempark. There are so many options now that everyone just grabs the next big thing and rushes through and moves onto the next mmo. MMO's may never see the "innovation" that changes the genre, perhaps we just need a new genre. When there were very few options, people came into an mmo and found a home, now companies churn these things out at such a rapid pace to get there piece of the grab bag. I'm sure programmers and designers have huge dreams and want to share their world with you, but they will never realize those dreams when fast cash is all investors are looking for.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

 
OP  10/04/12 7:35:24 AM#25
Originally posted by Entris38

The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

 

 

It's the same as those stats of sports players, basketball players, baseball players etc. Why are they being discussed, or why are they even being kept track by fans? Do they influence your enjoyment while you actually watch the game? Maybe, but most often not at all. Still, for a number of sports fans those scoring stats of major league players are still something they're interested in.
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7010

10/04/12 7:36:32 AM#26
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by bcbully

something may be wrong with OPs numbers. It just doesn't make sense that on sept. 2 WoW was at 20k hours and now it's 60k, but with less players according to OPs numbers. Idk I'm just not sure what could have caused such a early bump for WoW. 

 

My apologies op. That 11k player number is just odd.

 

I only wrote down what Xfire stated, I haven't really an explanation for how or why some data either. But the difference in what you mentioned may be the day: for Xfire almost all the days were Sundays, except when I specifically mention a Tuesday. Usually, the amount of gameplay hours during the weekdays is less than for a Sunday or Saturday. From what I could see for WoW, up till Aug 26th, the number of players and gameplay hours was high, after that it fell from an 11k to half, only to recover now after MoP. But this is in Xfire. In Raptr I simply don't see such drastic changes for WoW, only when MoP launched.

 

Ok the sunday to tuesday thing maybe be something. Thank you.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11296

10/04/12 7:36:48 AM#27
Originally posted by Entris38

The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

DFC Intelligence seems to care ;)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1534

10/04/12 7:37:09 AM#28
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by Entris38

The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

 

 

It's the same as those stats of sports players, basketball players, baseball players etc. Why are they being discussed, or why are they even being kept track by fans? Do they influence your enjoyment while you actually watch the game? Maybe, but most often not at all. Still, for a number of sports fans those scoring stats of major league players are still something they're interested in.

at least, provide accurate stats, posting stats that do not represent the community at all is bull.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Entris38

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 184

10/04/12 7:37:19 AM#29
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by Entris38

The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

 

 

It's the same as those stats of sports players, basketball players, baseball players etc. Why are they being discussed, or why are they even being kept track by fans? Do they influence your enjoyment while you actually watch the game? Maybe, but most often not at all. Still, for a number of sports fans those scoring stats of major league players are still something they're interested in.

Very true, I can see what you are saying

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7010

10/04/12 7:38:58 AM#30
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Entris38

The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

DFC Intelligence seems to care ;)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

Bookmarked for future "Who cares about xfire?" comments. 

 

It still amazes me when I see comments like "xfire only shows "X" usesr? there are "Xmillion" users playing! Xfire is bull!" comments.

 

I blame our education system :p

  niceguy3978

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1977

10/04/12 7:39:55 AM#31
Originally posted by Mothanos

I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
At what population is this date taken from ?

MoP sales 700k
GW2 sales 2.6 million

What does it say ?

Nada niente nothing.

keep trying tough.

I've never been polled by a political poll either, but they are an accurate snapshop of public opinion at the given time.  The whole "i don't use x-fire and neither do my friends" is meaningless.  X-fire is problematic for many reasons, that isn't one of them.  The biggest problem with x-fire and raptr is that they are self-selected samples which means there is no generalizability to them.  This is why it is useless to try to say based on x-fire a game has close to X population.  But nobody really does that anymore so it is a bit of a moot point.  It is also fairly useless to compare games population size using x-fire due to the sel-selected nature of the sample.  What x-fire does really well is show trends within a specific game.  Raptr is the same way though it isn't as popular to talk about on these forums.  

  krakra70

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 127

10/04/12 7:41:19 AM#32
It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?
  Entris38

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 184

10/04/12 7:42:18 AM#33
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Entris38

The only thing I can say that it actually amazes me that any of this is still talked about, or ever for that matter. If you like the game, play it , or vice versa. Apparently everyone suddenly owns stock in these companies.......my game is better than your game because it has more people......my dad can beat up your dad.......seriously folks???? That's exactly what this is....

DFC Intelligence seems to care ;)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

Bookmarked for future "Who cares about xfire?" comments.

That's a good article, thanks.

  niceguy3978

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1977

10/04/12 7:44:15 AM#34
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Mothanos

I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
At what population is this date taken from ?

MoP sales 700k
GW2 sales 2.6 million

What does it say ?

Nada niente nothing.

keep trying tough.

What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

 

Actually - WHAT IS the gaming population of either program? Unless one of those programs is installed by default when you install a game - you never will get accurate numbers. Why? STATISTICS my friend. What % of GW2 palyers use either program? Unless you know that you may as well stick your head in the sand because random numbers will be as accurate as the numbers from Xfire or Raptr.

 

Nice try - move on.

You don't need to know what % of gw2 users use x-fire, that number is irrelevant.  For example, most political polls only use between 1,000 and 2,000 people (some use more some use less).  That is less than .01% of the voting population in the U.S.  What matters is the raw number itself anything over 500 people is going to give you a reasonable margin of error.  As I said in a previous post x-fires problem isn't the number of users, it is the self-selected nature of the numbers, which make comparisons impossible but trends usefull.

  IPolygon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 699

10/04/12 7:44:29 AM#35

I just made these screenshots.







 

Looks pretty busy to me.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

10/04/12 7:48:35 AM#36
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Mothanos

I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
At what population is this date taken from ?

MoP sales 700k
GW2 sales 2.6 million

What does it say ?

Nada niente nothing.

keep trying tough.

What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

 

Actually - WHAT IS the gaming population of either program? Unless one of those programs is installed by default when you install a game - you never will get accurate numbers. Why? STATISTICS my friend. What % of GW2 palyers use either program? Unless you know that you may as well stick your head in the sand because random numbers will be as accurate as the numbers from Xfire or Raptr.

 

Nice try - move on.

Statistics, you probably never heared about voting estimates made on sample size of a 1000 people. Xfire sample size is one thousand times larger than estimates you see on the TV. That is not the correct question what you're asking, however, the correct question is, why would guild wars players be more or less inclined to use Xfire than other players. The answer is, there might be a very small difference, but not significant enough to make the data invalid.

If 1.2% of GW2 players use xfire, and only 1.1% of WoW players, the margin of error would be very small and if you believe that the difference is much more significant then you kinda have to give a reasonable explanation for that. WoW and GW2 and Rift and Lotro etc. players are belonging to very similar market segment and are regularly migrating between these games, so the chance they use xfire in the same proportion is extremely high.

 

I beg to differ - I understand all about voting estimates and similar processes but MANY times those estimates are WRONG. In order to have true valid numbers, Xfire and Raptr would have to know the % of players using and trend over the day. That way one can get an average and use that.

 

Sorry the numbers are useless from Xfire and Raptr for any game UNLESS the program is installed by default. If not, no estimate will be accurate or useful.

 

As my old Ph.D. advisor said, there are lies, damned lies, and then there is Statistics.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Mahavishnu

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/12
Posts: 333

10/04/12 7:49:48 AM#37

Come on guys,

don't trust the numbers, just use your brain:

1. GW2 is a good game and it is successful. Many players will stay within this game.

2. MoP will draw a lot of players back to WoW. Even if not that many as with Cata, there is still that old guild one has been a member of for such a long time and don't forget the deal with Diablo 3. Finally the way they count subscriptions in China has always been intransparent.

3. So both games continue to have a big playerbase. WoW's numbers are shrinking, but that is no surprise. Blizzard obviously has a plan how to pass the time till the release of Titan. ArenaNet, however, still has to prove that they can keep their game fresh and attractive enough to keep their playerbase.

Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

10/04/12 7:50:17 AM#38
Originally posted by krakra70
It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?

Or Xfire and Raptr are one in the same - meaning useless.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  krakra70

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 127

10/04/12 7:53:10 AM#39
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Mothanos

I never used Xfire, my whole guild doesnt use Xfire or raptr > so what are you trying to say with this ?
At what population is this date taken from ?

MoP sales 700k
GW2 sales 2.6 million

What does it say ?

Nada niente nothing.

keep trying tough.

What you don't see or use obviously don't exist?

Sample size of either of these programs is extremely large and fairly accurately represents the gaming population.

 

Actually - WHAT IS the gaming population of either program? Unless one of those programs is installed by default when you install a game - you never will get accurate numbers. Why? STATISTICS my friend. What % of GW2 palyers use either program? Unless you know that you may as well stick your head in the sand because random numbers will be as accurate as the numbers from Xfire or Raptr.

 

Nice try - move on.

You don't need to know what % of gw2 users use x-fire, that number is irrelevant.  For example, most political polls only use between 1,000 and 2,000 people (some use more some use less).  That is less than .01% of the voting population in the U.S.  What matters is the raw number itself anything over 500 people is going to give you a reasonable margin of error.  As I said in a previous post x-fires problem isn't the number of users, it is the self-selected nature of the numbers, which make comparisons impossible but trends usefull.

It's barely self-selected. People use xfire to improve their gaming experience, not to "vote" for a game, which makes it a (mostly) random selection (and that is much more statistically significant)

  krakra70

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 127

10/04/12 7:53:56 AM#40
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by krakra70
It's amazing how similar the stats of raptr and xfire are. Maybe they are actually both correct and the fanboys were wrong?

Or Xfire and Raptr are one in the same - meaning useless.

If they were just random numbers without significance they wouldn't be so similar.

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