FF still has a huge following as a franchise. XIV needs to first appeal to FF fans in general. Second it needs to draw in the XI players by being a game that will appeal to them but bring it all up to date so that it can bring in a wider crowd for the first time.

I think if FFXIV can retain some of its sandboxy feel with its economic system and very flexible job system while keeping its appeal to FF fans it will do fine. Maybe not great but fine.

Might be a suprise hit. o/

Originally posted by adam_nox

FF11 was garbage at release, and I seriously doubt it turned out any better despite having a large enough japanese following to keep it afloat.

FFXI is the best mmorpg i ever played, not only japanese played it, FFXI had maintain 500 000 subscriber for years. What you just state is just ignorance. If you dont like it that fine, but dont assume everyone share your opinion here.

Square just never understood the genre.  They tried to copy EQ with FF11 instead of making a game that was similar to FF5-10 like they could have.  They failed to innovate even when for them it would have been easy because they had a single player mold to work with.

Again i cant agree with you. They have created a MMO not a single player game. Why would you want in a single player game mold? Oh sillyme.. this is what people want these day.. mmo single player...

FF X-2 and 13 and 13-2 show that the old square is clearly dead and gone.  FF14 was such a sadly slapped together money grab that it's as humorous as it is sad.  It's unlikely that square gets it anymore than they did at release, and there's no way they can change the game to be worth a sub fee.

 

It's just not possible to completely change foundational concepts, which is what ff14 truly got wrong.

Yes it's possible and this is what they did. From what i heard they rebuild this game completly from scratch, they only kept the races. So this is a new game. Now again you dont like it, i could care less but stop assuming everyone is like you and dont want to pay sub.

If this game is cool, i will gladly pay a sub fee. I prefer the sub fee model then any F2P crap or B2P model with cash shop.

I payed 70 bucks for this crap the first time around, I won't touch it unless I don't have to pay another up-front fee and I get at least a free week.

I remember my second day playing, a quest sent me on some pointless run though the map in a maze like canyon with mobs so high a level and so weirdly spaced that the quest was impossible.

Oh and the economy lol...

sigh...  I will be checking my e-mail for an invite from SE.  If I don't get one y'all have a great time!

For starters Bill already commented on this somewhat.  The payment system that square had set up is old, antiquated, and down right hard to use.  I remember trying to set up an account for ffxi and the pain I went though trying to set it up.  In today's market when folks have lots of alts, that is really not the way  to go.

I can remember when ffix hit folks were like omg, and then it bombed.  I not been watching it. I figured by now they would have let it die.  Now it is back from the dead, but with square I can see they not learned any of the lessons from fxxi and only some from the previous release.

I really expect this one to burn,  after all its just another grinder, and unless you love running the same content over and over all the time, then it can not work in the west, now the Asians will probably love that type of grind but I just don't see it working in the US.

Originally posted by guin10

I can't wait. I watched the gameplay video and the game looks amazing. Gridania/Black Shroud  is completely different.  

 

And one question: 

 

Why FF XIV: A Realm Reborn doesn't have its own board?

 

Darkfall: Unholy Wars was announced last month and already has its own board here.

 

FF XIV: A Realm Reborn (aka FF XIV 2.0) was announced in 2011 and.... I don't see anything.

 

 

The problem is no one ever complained about how amazing FF14 looked. Graphics had nothing to do with the games failures.  

The question you asked. It's because people actually liked Darkfall.

goozmania writes:

I started rolling my eyes when you mentioned subscription models being bad, then again when you said quest hubs don't work.

Originally posted by loeslein

I payed 70 bucks for this crap the first time around, I won't touch it unless I don't have to pay another up-front fee and I get at least a free week.

I remember my second day playing, a quest sent me on some pointless run though the map in a maze like canyon with mobs so high a level and so weirdly spaced that the quest was impossible.

Oh and the economy lol...

 

sigh...  I will be checking my e-mail for an invite from SE.  If I don't get one y'all have a great time!

This is what you can read on the New FINAL FANTASY XIV Outline file.

September to October 2012 –Begin distribution of version 2.0 software for PC
-Begin distribution of PlayStation®3 system beta version

?October to November 2012 –Reinstate limited free trial period for PC version
-Commence PlayStation®3 system closed beta test

?Post-January 2013 –Version 2.0 client (PC and PlayStation®3 system) goes on sale
-Free trial period ends

so i guest we will have a free trial.

The one thing FF14 had going for it was its sandboxy nature.  You had the economy driven completely by players.  You had an interesting hybrid class/skill based advancement system.  You had a large world.  You had open world dungeons.  Other than some "main scenario" quests, player's weren't told where to go and how to enjoy the game.

Sounds great on paper.  And for a LONG time, I was able to look past a lot of the issues and enjoy the game.  Simply put, the game was bogged down with so many issues and it felt very much like a work in progress.  For the most part, things worked, but the entirety of the game didn't gel together.

The current dev team has made huge in-roads into making a fun, engaging game.  However, their direction does point to a "WoW" model.  I do believe FF:ARR will be great for what it is.  However, I do fear that its "sandbox" roots will slowly dissappear.

I remember trying out the game.

I also remember a mage giving me 25++++ levels from abusing 1 of the MANY bugs/exploits in the game that Square Enix didn't care about whatsoever..

Was just a mess and nobody cared/adressed anything..

Originally posted by adam_nox

FF11 was garbage at release, and I seriously doubt it turned out any better despite having a large enough japanese following to keep it afloat.

 

It turned out much better. It was a solid, stable game by the time it was released in the US. 10 years and 7 expansions later, they're releasing a brand-new expansion adding an entire new continent, new jobs, new storyline. FFXI has been a cash cow for SE.

 

It's still doing much better than most any other MMO that's been out as long as it has.

 

It amazes me how people continue to underestimate just how successful FFXI has been. How little they know about it.

Square just never understood the genre.  They tried to copy EQ with FF11 instead of making a game that was similar to FF5-10 like they could have.  They failed to innovate even when for them it would have been easy because they had a single player mold to work with.

 

They understood the genre just fine. For one, you have to remember that XI launched when EQ1 was still the reigning king of MMO scene, so for them to emulate it was entirely logical. Second, while "modern" MMOs were being released, following the WoW model (casual friendly, etc), and falling below 300k subscribers or lower inside their first year, FFXI maintained ~500,000 players upwards of 7 years into its service - despite "copying EQ" and "not understanding the genre" - as you put it.

 

Of course, to look at it another way - because the game isn't what you want or expect, it isn't indicative of SE "not understanding MMORPGs".  It's simply indicative of you not liking the game.

 

It's just not possible to completely change foundational concepts, which is what ff14 truly got wrong.

 

XIV had a lot of good ideas, just horrible implementation of them. We'll never know how well it could have turned out if they'd done things better. And hey, at least they tried something different, right? Isn't  that what so many MMO players claim to want? For a MMO developer to stop emulating every other popular MMO and do something different? Well, the risk of doing something different is that it might not work. In SE's case with XIV, it didn't. That's why they're (unfortunately) playing it a bit more "safe" with 2.0.

 

Oh look, a completely CG trailer. That's totally the best way to show off a new and improved version of the thing people hated most, THE FRIGGIN GAMEPLAY.

Not that it wasn't pretty, SQE certainly knows how to make a nice cinematic. Honestly they should just stick to making movies. WTB FFX version of Advent Children.

"all looks promising. Honestly, the game is looking pretty slick."

Lol..  Where have you been?

Everything SE are doing with FFXIV is archaic and an not even remotely innovative.  They intend to add a quest-based progression system into a game where you level multiple classes... in other words the quests will be mass-produced drivel which nobody will enjoy.

It's a recipe for disaster.

Besides adding shadows to the engine, theyve actually downgraded a lot of the textures.   The only redeeming features left are things which were introduced in the initial launch, such as the robust crafting system and detailed character models (which are also getting downgraded).

I was one of those very disappointed. At least as much as I loved console incarnations.

But this video looks very very promising and I guess will for sure try. No matter how much mad i was about them, being sure will never ever return to SE.

For the sub I have no problems if game will be good. I'm big fan of sub model. :-)) I would never expect somebody working for free and only real way to get money back AND being motivated to invest more and more time and man power and hadrware is sub model. I hate actually cash shops as usually one pay more money for crappy game with "free" model than would get for full game with sub. But sure there are games not worth even playing, not free not sub. And there are those that could never exist as sub based, i.e. GW1. On the other side, GW2 is so far ONLY and unique suprise in high quality for P2P game. Ok, have cash shops, have spent there 30€ so far, ... but nothing that one would REALLY need. I only wonder how much man power and money will be they willing to invest after this money have been used and when people will have purchased all that was possible from shops.

Originally posted by loeslein

I payed 70 bucks for this crap the first time around, I won't touch it unless I don't have to pay another up-front fee and I get at least a free week.

I remember my second day playing, a quest sent me on some pointless run though the map in a maze like canyon with mobs so high a level and so weirdly spaced that the quest was impossible.

Oh and the economy lol...

 

sigh...  I will be checking my e-mail for an invite from SE.  If I don't get one y'all have a great time!

Square stated along time ago that as long as you have a character in the system, even if dormant, you will be able to download ARR free of charge. There is your invite.