I think AoC was overhyped, and TSW was underhyped. If AoC had never happened, I think response on TSW would've been different as well, but it did happen and you can hardly blame people for letting it play a role in how their stance is colored towards Funcom and as a result TSW.

It's not a good way of judging, true, but being too sceptical and negative or being too fanboish is simply what happens all the time. If people had bad experiences with a game or the company behind it, they'll take that experience with them in their view of that company's future endeavours. Same for when a game or company did good by someone. History is never completely forgotten, only time will blunt the edges.

In a way, the check for the extra credit of goodwill that Funcom got before AoC's launch, they have been paying in later years.

As for TSW, I agree that the game as well as FC's actions got regarded in a more negative light than deserved, bc of FC's checkered past. But not completely: check Metacritic user scores, check the general vibe on forums and compare it with how it was with AoC after its launch. Sure, there are some people who'll always see Funcom and all its games in a negative light, but there are also quite a number of people who've come around and who acknowledge and give kudos to what FC tried to do with TSW, or who can appreciate FC's and Tornquist's handling of everything around TSW more than how everything was handled around AoC and with its launch. Still, it's a gradual process.

Also, things should be regarded from an MMO gamer's perspective accustomed to this day and age: for a number of MMO gamers, TSW has a lousy way of making them fall in love with it. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, and TSW's first impression can be clunky and isn't flawless. Character animation and combat can feel off, not as smooth as in other AAA MMO's. People expect the feel of shooter mechanics when they get to play with guns, it's the FPS/TPS genre effect. If you still have to use MMO mechanics, you better make them as smooth and slick as possible to compensate. If you don't, you'll lose some points with a new TSW gamer.

Anyway, things are like they are, no use crying over spilt milk. Best is simply to do it like Trion does: make sure to have an agressively active content update schedule, with sometimes new updates, features and mechanics that can wow and tempt MMO gamers, and people'll start giving kudos in any case where kudos are deserved. Oh, and they should take a good, hard look at Trion's PR & Communication team and look at how these did things: now those are people who know how to put their product in a good spotlight and highlight the positive stuff. Some of Trion's PR team's actions were simply brilliant.

What I also can never understand, is why MMO companies don't toy around with the sub fees: P2P or P2P hybrid if you must, but why not do it for a lower fee, like 11 euro or 10 pounds or 12 dollars a month? Or even make it so that a part of the fee can be gained back with ingame activities and achievements?

@Burntvet; that's right. But your statement only applies when the title belongs to a high profile/deep pockets publisher or a personal "pet" game. Their personal pet game does not need to be from a deep pockets publisher, so their bias can go either way, up or down. In the case of game's with wealthy publishers (one exception: Activision Blizzard) who are generous with perks or fees this site is unambiguously positive. Only with those titles coming from smaller publishers without the resources do they demonstrate free reign in assigning unfavorable ratings or soundbites unless they're an editors pet game. I was reading an interview with one of the TSW producers I think it was Eurogamer. He mentioned how TSW was critiqued without gloves, but in the case of GW2 which launched with a broken AH which lasted weeks that that gaffe somehow never weighted the scores it was given.

Originally posted by Reas43
@Burntvet; that's right. But your statement only applies when the title belongs to a high profile/deep pockets publisher or a personal "pet" game. Their personal pet game does not need to be from a deep pockets publisher, so their bias can go either way, up or down. In the case of game's with wealthy publishers (one exception: Activision Blizzard) who are generous with perks or fees this site is unambiguously positive. Only with those titles coming from smaller publishers without the resources do they demonstrate free reign in assigning unfavorable ratings or soundbites unless they're an editors pet game. I was reading an interview with one of the TSW producers I think it was Eurogamer. He mentioned how TSW was critiqued without gloves, but in the case of GW2 which launched with a broken AH which lasted weeks that that gaffe somehow never weighted the scores it was given.

Yup.

There are plenty of other games, some smaller, many F2P asian grinders and such, that do not get "the treatment".

But the list and scores are there to see the truth of what I was saying: "major" MMOs, i.e. the ones that get hyped up with the columns and features and "first looks" and exclusive videos and all that stuff, score significantly higher than the player reviews for the same game, in all but a single case.

It is pure and observable "positivity bias", only in the the opposite direction from the one cited by the author in this piece.

But it cuts both ways: "over-emphasizing the positive" and "minimizing the negative" is just as bad or worse, than "assuming a negative stance" on a product, because if someone reads an "overly" negative piece, the worst that happens is they don't buy the game and it does not cost them anything.

With reviews and columns and all the rest that  "over-emphasize the positive" (which MMORPG.com is known for), the end result is the reader ends up buying a bad/mediocre game and that DOES cost the reader money.

 

Apparently, the folks here don't see it that way.

      So I guess if we didn't like TSW then we aren't really gamers??

Well, since this a TSW thread I checked it for TSW, and it doesn't seem that far out of place: an mmorpg.com rating of 8.5, a user rating of 8.3.

Personally, I prefer those reviews where the reviewer is able to surpass his/her own biases, either negative or positive (a hardcore sandbox fan giving an honest, praising review of a themepark MMO, now that'd be a nice touch), and give an honest, fairly objective summing up of both pros and cons of an MMO, great qualities as well as weaknesses.

But in the end, it's always the duty of a gamer himself to know his own tastes and preferences, and to make a proper judgment call on all the information around and make the right decisions for themselves.

Originally posted by Theocritus
      So I guess if we didn't like TSW then we aren't really gamers??

people throwing that around are just the fanboys being bitter mad that the game isn't flourishing

 

with that said though, it is a shame the game isn't doing better. it's not a very polished game, but it's definitely refreshing to play. also the only MMO i've played that manages to tell a decent story as you play through it (didn't need 300 million dollars to tell that story either)

Originally posted by Theocritus
      So I guess if we didn't like TSW then we aren't really gamers??

Correct.It's the same defence fans used for FFXIV if you don't like ti it's coz your of low intelligence and didn't "get it"

I also love how bwefore AoC everyone treated FUncoim as a AAA developer and a publically traded coorporation with lots of money from having a diversified protfolio but for the secret world they were suddenly an indie developer with very little money and everyone should cut the poor little developer some slack.

If they are cash poor and a small dev team now it's because of poor management and bad game decisions and as such they deserve to reap what they have sewn.Why should they be exempt from the cosnequences of their own actions when the rest of us aren't?

Now I think TSW itself is a fine game and much better thna their previous efforts  and the onyl reason I myself don't play is I won't support it's business model.There are other things I don't like about the game but not enough to stop me playing it.

I do think Funcom has done alright by it's player base with updates at this stage but I wonder how long they can keep it up.

When I heard the game was mostly instanced and focused on PvE with little effort put in PvP I completely lost interest in the game and basically ignored everything else.

So unless those things have changed I see little reason to give it a second look.

Originally posted by smh_alot
Well, since this a TSW thread I checked it for TSW, and it doesn't seem that far out of place: an mmorpg.com rating of 8.5, a user rating of 8.3.

 

Personally, I prefer those reviews where the reviewer is able to surpass his/her own biases, either negative or positive (a hardcore sandbox fan giving an honest, praising review of a themepark MMO, now that'd be a nice touch), and give an honest, fairly objective summing up of both pros and cons of an MMO, great qualities as well as weaknesses.

 

 

That bit there is really all that anyone can ask for, but sadly, all too rarely get.

As to the rating, TSW is fair close, yes, but some of the bigger and "more major" recent examples are not: TOR and D3, both heavily promoted and supported on this site have a much larger score difference, and in the run up to launch, the reviews/columnists/whatever else that covered those, did the usual deal of "over emphasizing the positive and minimizing the negative" in their coverage. They each got the full "treatment".

And thus, the difference in score between "offical review" and player rating is large: over 1.7 higher on the official review for each.

And there were a lot of gamers that bought those titles, some on the overpositive reviews, that were not happy with their purchases.

Originally posted by Yamota

When I heard the game was mostly instanced and focused on PvE with little effort put in PvP I completely lost interest in the game and basically ignored everything else.

So unless those things have changed I see little reason to give it a second look.

If I got it, you didn't try the game because it didn't fit your taste. Ok, that's normal. 

What confuses me is why you came here just to write that... Do you do it in all games you "ignore"? 

I played first month. I enjoyed my time there, but I felt it was a little incomplete game, and to make things worse it has the highest sub fee among several AAA titles (the same applies to AoC) + cash shop (and expensive one btw) with stuff you can't farm or buy ingame. Very greedy and I don't like to feel that I am supporting it...

I will come back for another month, just don't know when. maybe when the world is bigger and the sub fee lower...

Originally posted by Candomble

Originally posted by Yamota

When I heard the game was mostly instanced and focused on PvE with little effort put in PvP I completely lost interest in the game and basically ignored everything else.

So unless those things have changed I see little reason to give it a second look.

If I got it, you didn't try the game because it didn't fit your taste. Ok, that's normal. 

What confuses me is why you came here just to write that... Do you do it in all games you "ignore"? 

I played first month. I enjoyed my time there, but I felt it was a little incomplete game, and to make things worse it has the highest sub fee among several AAA titles (the same applies to AoC) + cash shop (and expensive one btw) with stuff you can't farm or buy ingame. Very greedy and I don't like to feel that I am supporting it...

I will come back for another month, just don't know when. maybe when the world is bigger and the sub fee lower...

WHAT1!! are you people smoking since when is 15 dollar' s amonth the highest sub cost for a game, its been that way for all MMo's !!!!! Since for ever!!!

 

What  games have you people been playing WOW and every other AAA and even sandbox's are 15 bucks a month!!!  Also WOW and most every other game has a store, don't like the store don't use it, it dies not effect game play,.,.

There is nothing in the store in TSW that effects game play ,..

 

AOC is free and yes they have to make money, oh I forgot you want them to work for free... Gamers today make me laugh so much IRL, how about you work for free !!! BETTER yet go make a game, and I will play it for free and come here and whine about it because you want to make a living!

 

I wish you gamers would get a new hobby because its clear 15 bucks a month is killing you...  alls I got to say is WOW........

 

 

 

PS  People wonder why the MMo industry is dieing this is why, more games will go offline because gamers are cheap and want everything handed to them today get a job! work for once in your lives...

 

Sorry to others but this stuff that I read how 15 dollars a month is so much is pissing me off,  and I been watching games go down hill the last 5 years or more and mainly not because of the game because of the people....

I don't understand the sub fee thing. It's the same sub fee as SoE games, WoW, LOTRO and others. Now conversion to Euro... that sounds like a real issue. But for US gamers, the sub fee is the same and it is reduced the longer you sub.

Yep, sub fee costs a bit more here than the average mmo sub...

But except that, I think they're on a good track. The game is good, the players (who remained) mostly love it, Ragnar's still there. They only need to keep the quality on level, and probably the playerbase will slowly grow - not much, ofc, most likely TSW won't go over a few hundred k ever... but it will make them a steady income. Or not and I'm just doing wishful thinking here :)

Former Funcom CEO and several people in management investigated for insider trading?

An anonymous source reported to The Escapist that Aas' position change to a chief strategy advisor

allowed him to attempt to sell off company stock without attracting scrutiny.

As of press time, 650,000 of his 1.5 million shares have successfully sold.

Stocks were valued at $17.60 a share when the game launched on July 2nd, but were worth $2.17 later.

How about those gamers who bought Funcom shares to support them?

Are they doing it right by them? 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/14/former-funcom-ceo-investigated-for-insider-trading/

http://e24.no/finanstilsynet-og-oslo-boers-gransker-funcom-aksjen/20268603

 

The thing is I pay in euros. 14 euros that happens to be more than 15 dollars.

 

The majority of other tittles are 12-13 euros month, and it can go less with gamecards (many times down to 10 euros).

 

Plus in the majority of other titles, many with more content btw, shops are cheaper; in TSW, ingame, most of the cloths you could buy were ugly, with cooler sets on the shop. To me this is greedy. You are ok with it, fine for you.

 

On the other hand, someone called me cheap and told me to go to work... Well, as a matter of fact I have a full time job since I finished university in 2000 and I don't remember passing a full month without paying an MMO sub fee in the last 3-4 years. However I try to value my money, even if it's a small fee, and I don't like the feeling of being explored. And I payed 49 euros for the game, so I am not talking about getting anything for free...

 

(edited because first post was written with cell phone)

I think some people just play a game to death and than get bored of it and blame the developer for some reason. No one wants to blame them selves, it is natural to want to move on after awhile

American media is garbage.

Really turned the corner? Gamewrs are satisfied? Does this writer even play the game? Its a ghost town wherever you go, even agartha is relatively quiet.

Originally posted by Candomble

Originally posted by Yamota

When I heard the game was mostly instanced and focused on PvE with little effort put in PvP I completely lost interest in the game and basically ignored everything else.

So unless those things have changed I see little reason to give it a second look.

If I got it, you didn't try the game because it didn't fit your taste. Ok, that's normal. 

What confuses me is why you came here just to write that... Do you do it in all games you "ignore"? 

I played first month. I enjoyed my time there, but I felt it was a little incomplete game, and to make things worse it has the highest sub fee among several AAA titles (the same applies to AoC) + cash shop (and expensive one btw) with stuff you can't farm or buy ingame. Very greedy and I don't like to feel that I am supporting it...

I will come back for another month, just don't know when. maybe when the world is bigger and the sub fee lower...

What do you mean "came here"? This isn't a TSW fan site, this is MMORPG.COM and I frequently visit this site and I happened to see this article on the main page, I read it and commented on it. You got a problem with that, then why dont you report me for whatever problem you have with it.

The fact is that this game is not appealing, to me atleast, and I dont think it has anything to do with media coverage but rather the game itself which is simply lacking.

Originally posted by eddieg50
I think some people just play a game to death and than get bored of it and blame the developer for some reason. No one wants to blame them selves, it is natural to want to move on after awhile

+1 Eddie... I agree. I'm happy getting 1 hour a night on a game so it takes me a long time to reach max level NOT one or two weeks.