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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » My issue with crafting

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36 posts found
  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1964

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

10/02/12 11:28:00 PM#21
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

El Psy Congroo

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2068

First came pride, then envy.

10/02/12 11:35:13 PM#22
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but that's true in some respects.  You don't ever have to be a certain PvE level, and can just level up a crafting profession to max, but that's not really fun to me.  At times, i wanted to turn off xp on my Thief, because i leveled him to 16 with just leveling up Jeweler to around 365.  

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2068

First came pride, then envy.

10/02/12 11:37:29 PM#23
Originally posted by Medicated03
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've really enjoyed crafting in GW2, but I actually have one major issue with it that I wanted to bring up:

It's so beneficial and accesible that everyone does it.

Now you probably read that and though fanboi blah blah blah...but not so!  Let me elaborate...

My problem with crafting is that there are SO many reasons why everyone wants to max out a crafting skill, some of those reasons being:

1.  Both crafting and gathering give you A LOT of exp, so people not even interested in crafting just do it for the exp.

2.  Crafting drops are fairly common and the trading post makes it very easy to get the ingredients you need, making crafting pretty easy to level.

3.  You can swap crafting skills without loosing progress on one character, so many folks will probably use to easier crafting skills just to level on when they have spare ingredients.

All of these reasons add up to mean that 400 level crafters are EXTREMELY common in this game.  This may not sound bad, but it means that the actual value that a max level crafter contributes to the economy is very low.  In fact, buying the ingredients of an item on the TP almost always costs either more or the same as the end product that a crafter can make...which essentially means that the crafter's value to the economy is worthless because it is so common.

And when you think about it, this is almost by necessity because of how the TP works.  If the ingredients of an item were posted for significantly less than the final item costs, then a crafter could just buy them all up, instantly craft the final product, and sell them back for a profit...this is essentially arbitrage and the market would quickly correct itself by making this impossible.

What are your thoughts on this?

As for me, in the future, maybe with an expansion, I hope that they make maxing out crafting a little more difficult and less accessible.  That should give max crafters some actual value in the economy.

You missed the part where they made GW2 shiny happy everyone wins ?  there is supposed to be no market for anything, no way to controll or massively  affect the market, everyones even  game. Ill stop there cause i cbf dealing with more fanboys lol

 

All they had to do was eliminate vendor prices on all items.  Let the players control the market.  And if you can't be "cbf" on a GW2 forum, then why are you here?  Bored much?

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2605

10/02/12 11:49:43 PM#24
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1964

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

10/02/12 11:53:50 PM#25
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

El Psy Congroo

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2605

10/03/12 12:05:07 AM#26
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

So it makes more sense to you that I, in an example of a warrior, become better at shooting my bow and rifle by swinging my sword or mace?

See how that works? Youre statement would at least make a tiny bit of sense if this was a skill based system (like DF) where you level individual skills rather than an all encompassing XP level.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1964

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

10/03/12 12:06:05 AM#27
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

So it makes more sense to you that I, in an example of a warrior, become better at shooting my bow and rifle by swinging my sword or mace?

See how that works? Youre statement would at least make a tiny bit of sense if this was a skill based system (like DF) where you level individual skills rather than an all encompassing XP level.

I agree, GW2 is nonsensical.

El Psy Congroo

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2605

10/03/12 12:08:27 AM#28
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

So it makes more sense to you that I, in an example of a warrior, become better at shooting my bow and rifle by swinging my sword or mace?

See how that works? Youre statement would at least make a tiny bit of sense if this was a skill based system (like DF) where you level individual skills rather than an all encompassing XP level.

I agree, GW2 is nonsensical.

Actually you agree that any game ever made with XP levels instead of individual skill levels is nonsensical. Nice attempt with the singularly focused hatred for no reason though.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1964

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

10/03/12 12:11:14 AM#29
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

So it makes more sense to you that I, in an example of a warrior, become better at shooting my bow and rifle by swinging my sword or mace?

See how that works? Youre statement would at least make a tiny bit of sense if this was a skill based system (like DF) where you level individual skills rather than an all encompassing XP level.

I agree, GW2 is nonsensical.

Actually you agree that any game ever made with XP levels instead of individual skill levels is nonsensical. Nice attempt with the singularly focused hatred for no reason though.

Absolutely agree with you here, Arenanet chose the least innovative method for progression.

El Psy Congroo

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2605

10/03/12 12:16:01 AM#30
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

So it makes more sense to you that I, in an example of a warrior, become better at shooting my bow and rifle by swinging my sword or mace?

See how that works? Youre statement would at least make a tiny bit of sense if this was a skill based system (like DF) where you level individual skills rather than an all encompassing XP level.

I agree, GW2 is nonsensical.

Actually you agree that any game ever made with XP levels instead of individual skill levels is nonsensical. Nice attempt with the singularly focused hatred for no reason though.

Absolutely agree with you here, Arenanet chose the least innovative method for progression.

I dont think you understand what the word innovative even means. Both level based and skill based progression have already been done many many time sover the years. Going with skill based progression is no more innovative than level based. It may be what you like better, but you liking something better does not = innovation.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1964

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

10/03/12 12:18:01 AM#31
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

So it makes more sense to you that I, in an example of a warrior, become better at shooting my bow and rifle by swinging my sword or mace?

See how that works? Youre statement would at least make a tiny bit of sense if this was a skill based system (like DF) where you level individual skills rather than an all encompassing XP level.

I agree, GW2 is nonsensical.

Actually you agree that any game ever made with XP levels instead of individual skill levels is nonsensical. Nice attempt with the singularly focused hatred for no reason though.

Absolutely agree with you here, Arenanet chose the least innovative method for progression.

I dont think you understand what the word innovative even means. Both level based and skill based progression have already been done many many time sover the years. Going with skill based progression is no more innovative than level based. It may be what you like better, but you liking something better does not = innovation.

You're right, they chose to use a system that's been done many times instead of coming up with their own.

El Psy Congroo

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2605

10/03/12 12:20:50 AM#32
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by kadepsyson
GW2 didn't want to include grinding so instead they made it so you just stand around pushing buttons next to a crafting table to gain your levels.  It's much more fun that way, not to mention very innovative.

Right. Because thats the only way to level...

I suppose it would have been better to force you to sacrifice gaining XP while you were spending time gathering & crafting like in every other game?

You're right, it makes sense to become better at shooting a bow by baking cookies.

So it makes more sense to you that I, in an example of a warrior, become better at shooting my bow and rifle by swinging my sword or mace?

See how that works? Youre statement would at least make a tiny bit of sense if this was a skill based system (like DF) where you level individual skills rather than an all encompassing XP level.

I agree, GW2 is nonsensical.

Actually you agree that any game ever made with XP levels instead of individual skill levels is nonsensical. Nice attempt with the singularly focused hatred for no reason though.

Absolutely agree with you here, Arenanet chose the least innovative method for progression.

I dont think you understand what the word innovative even means. Both level based and skill based progression have already been done many many time sover the years. Going with skill based progression is no more innovative than level based. It may be what you like better, but you liking something better does not = innovation.

You're right, they chose to use a system that's been done many times instead of coming up with their own.

Youre really grasping here. Theres only 2 forms of progression that COULD be used. Overall XP levels, or individual skill levels for everything. The 3rd option would have been no progression whatsoever and the game being completely player skill based (like old school FPS games). But we all know how much people already love to whine and claim how there is supposedly no progression in the game when there actually is.

  kadepsyson

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1964

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

10/03/12 12:26:02 AM#33

Well, there's always a mixture such as seperate levels for individual crafting professions - baking cookies gets you better at baking only.  Then have a seperate track for combat experience, skill based or level based, the issue here though is crafting.

Edit:  They really touted their innovation, but then used regular old gain xp gain level.  For crafting you gain xp gain level.

I wouldn't be so against this clash of philosophy and actual gameplay if they had started off by saying "We founded Arenanet to make games where everyone wins as much as possible as often as possible in the tried and true easiest ways possible"

El Psy Congroo

  Deldor

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/11
Posts: 51

10/03/12 1:09:40 AM#34
Originally posted by Creslin321

And when you think about it, this is almost by necessity because of how the TP works.  If the ingredients of an item were posted for significantly less than the final item costs, then a crafter could just buy them all up, instantly craft the final product, and sell them back for a profit...this is essentially arbitrage and the market would quickly correct itself by making this impossible.

You can do this...

One example are level 80 exotics. Last time I checked (1 week ago or so) you could buy the ingredients for a level 80 exotic for about 2g20s at the trading post and the corresponding items would be listed for 2g50s - 3g50s. With 15% fees, this would be mostly a profit. The problem is, the market for level 80 exotics is slow. So if you get undercut and have to relist the item multiple times with 5% fees each time, it eats up your profit.

I blame the slowness of the exotics market to the high trading post fees. People usually want a full set, so they are looking at ~13g to spend. If you make the trade through the trading post with 15% fees, 2g are lost. So people farm most of the ingredients themselves, buy the rest at the trading post and give it to their guild crafter, avoiding most of the trading post fees.

 

  zonzai

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/05
Posts: 361

10/05/12 2:52:46 AM#35
To be honest I don't even understand the crafting system in this game. Not that I've really tried to.  But I'm glad I don't have to craft to stay competitive. 
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16414

10/05/12 3:03:34 AM#36
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've really enjoyed crafting in GW2, but I actually have one major issue with it that I wanted to bring up:

It's so beneficial and accesible that everyone does it.

Now you probably read that and though fanboi blah blah blah...but not so!  Let me elaborate...

My problem with crafting is that there are SO many reasons why everyone wants to max out a crafting skill, some of those reasons being:

1.  Both crafting and gathering give you A LOT of exp, so people not even interested in crafting just do it for the exp.

2.  Crafting drops are fairly common and the trading post makes it very easy to get the ingredients you need, making crafting pretty easy to level.

3.  You can swap crafting skills without loosing progress on one character, so many folks will probably use to easier crafting skills just to level on when they have spare ingredients.

All of these reasons add up to mean that 400 level crafters are EXTREMELY common in this game.  This may not sound bad, but it means that the actual value that a max level crafter contributes to the economy is very low.  In fact, buying the ingredients of an item on the TP almost always costs either more or the same as the end product that a crafter can make...which essentially means that the crafter's value to the economy is worthless because it is so common.

And when you think about it, this is almost by necessity because of how the TP works.  If the ingredients of an item were posted for significantly less than the final item costs, then a crafter could just buy them all up, instantly craft the final product, and sell them back for a profit...this is essentially arbitrage and the market would quickly correct itself by making this impossible.

What are your thoughts on this?

As for me, in the future, maybe with an expansion, I hope that they make maxing out crafting a little more difficult and less accessible.  That should give max crafters some actual value in the economy.

I think dropable reciepices and more rare and hard to get materials for certain things would help. I agree that maxing out a crafting skill is easier here than in any other game I played for good and bad but then again I like the fact that I dont need to make hundreds of tin weapons before I can do copper and so on.

In games like EQ2 you just make a zillion of useless crap before you can start earning any money, making crafting harder is not the way to go. Rare rec & mats is way better to go if you want to make things interesting.

What annoys me most is the fact that it doesnt say who crafted an item, that EQ2 nailed. When I make a exoctic sword I want people to know I did it.

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