Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Loktofeit

"Since 2007, there has been a large decline in the variety of races per popular game."

Ultima Online

Asheron's Call

EVE Online

Lineage

 

Depending how 'popular' is defined (yay, for vauge terms to be able to shift your goalposts if necessary) plenty more can be added to the list on both ends of the scale, but the point is the graph is utter horseshit.

If there has been a decline in the number of races present in the MMOs that players choose to play, then that would indicate that either players want less races or MMOs with less races prove to be better games, no?

Popular is a vague term but to be fair, how many games would you like him to list?  Of course there will be outliers on both sides.

Ok, so let's just add those four. Doesn't just that four debunk both the graph and the premise?

 

Possibly, but then you'd have to search far and wide to include every title out there, for example Shadowbane had a lot of races, don't think RFO had a whole lot.

Might have to take the top 10 MMO's of 2002 (how do we determine top, by subs I assume) and the top 10 MMO's of 2012 and compare the number of races they have.

I'll bet the number is smaller in 2012.

I like having a large amount of races... BUT at the same time they need stats that are unique to the race... and I don't mean in wow, where you get a skill that becomes void in a few levels..

I mean real stats..

Like in FFXI certain races just COULD NOT place a white mage (healer)..I mean they could play it...but not be half as effective at it, as some races..

...But it seems now days people just complain if you have something like that. 

"waaaa i want to play a pink fairy elf but also play tank, waaaa unfair" <--(yes thats what the average mmo'er sounds like to me)

I want to see more playable races which are actually different beside the looks. So if you have a giant wolf like race then it should be far stronger and far more fit to be a plate wearing, massive 2H sword wielder than a tiny gnome. Other races should be far better suited for mage type of professions etc.

Lately it seems that race has, to make it easier for devs to balance, just been different in the ways the models look.

What do expect in a racial package?  unique art/animations?  unique (but balanced) abilities?  story?  lore?  NPC presence?

Do you expect every race to have an opinion (in lore) about every other race?

Originally posted by maplestone

What do expect in a racial package?  unique art/animations?  unique (but balanced) abilities?  story?  lore?  NPC presence?

Do you expect every race to have an opinion (in lore) about every other race?

Not just in lore but also in faction mechanics. That was another great thing about Vanguard. Such a good game, such a sad story.

Originally posted by Ambros123
Quality and well thought out races... yes.  GW2 did a very good job at really giving their races some personalities unlike other companies.  Usually you have that tyical elf, dwarf, human with not distinction or sense of characteristic and are just bland races that the only preference is the model.

Personality? How exactly did they give their races personality?

Yeah, but don't hate on the originals either.   Before you add the extras make sure you got the elf, drow, dwarf.  Frag the humans, useless creatures.  And Mithras.  Oh, wait, that would be copywrited.  Omg, why don't more games have Mithras!  

Pleeeze, someone make a game with Manthras!  Not bulked but skinny, little pretty things that play with their tails.  Pleeeeeeeeeeze.

Oh, and vampires if done right.  What kind of idiot makes a vampire that doesn't drink blood?  Every fraken vamp movie/show/game you never see them drink blood!  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Handsome but no Twilight pussies.  

Originally posted by Yamota

I want to see more playable races which are actually different beside the looks. So if you have a giant wolf like race then it should be far stronger and far more fit to be a plate wearing, massive 2H sword wielder than a tiny gnome. Other races should be far better suited for mage type of professions etc.

Lately it seems that race has, to make it easier for devs to balance, just been different in the ways the models look.

The issue with this is it basically forces people to chose the better race, or be severely gimped.

A simple workout around is to either have unique classes for each race, which is something I'd love to see.

An orc and a human shouldn't have identical fighting styles, neither should their magic be the same.

I'm less interested in how many playable races there are, and more with having a solid game with decent mechanics, that brings something new and exciting to the table, rather than another tired, carbon copy of a game we've seen before with a new skin.

Once we're happy that it's a decent game then we can look at races to choose from. I'm tired of the same choices. Human, Elf, Dwarf blah blah. Been there done that.

Show me something different and I might get excited, otherwise it's not something I'm going to be too bothered about, just another standard  MMO with the same race choices as always. At which point I don't care if there' 5 or 25.

Dwarves. As long as there is a Dwarven race to choose from, I'm good.

/shrug

I also like furries, but not for my main. Don't judge me.

Originally posted by strangewizard

Originally posted by Yamota

I want to see more playable races which are actually different beside the looks. So if you have a giant wolf like race then it should be far stronger and far more fit to be a plate wearing, massive 2H sword wielder than a tiny gnome. Other races should be far better suited for mage type of professions etc.

Lately it seems that race has, to make it easier for devs to balance, just been different in the ways the models look.

The issue with this is it basically forces people to chose the better race, or be severely gimped.

A simple workout around is to either have unique classes for each race, which is something I'd love to see.

An orc and a human shouldn't have identical fighting styles, neither should their magic be the same.

Not necessarily. DAOC used multiple races for each class, and while each race brought its own advantage, it didn't favor any race so much so that you saw mostly all one vs another.

They accomplished this by making the variances somewhat small, and certain choices favored different weapon builds.

I recall on my Alb infiltrator, one race favored the use of daggers and the other major choice favored swords.  Both did different sorts of damage against different armors, so it made a difference, but neither one was a run away choice. (except perhaps to the die hard min-maxers)

The amount of races doesnt matter to me as long as customization is substantial such as STO, Aion, COH/COV etc.

 One of the big issues I have  is the "child-like" races introduced in some games. IMO its creepy and makes me wonder whats going through some of the deveopers heads.....

***Raises plunger in salute to NFL cheerleaders everywhere!***

Originally posted by Kyleran

Not necessarily. DAOC used multiple races for each class, and while each race brought its own advantage, it didn't favor any race so much so that you saw mostly all one vs another.

They accomplished this by making the variances somewhat small, and certain choices favored different weapon builds.

I recall on my Alb infiltrator, one race favored the use of daggers and the other major choice favored swords.  Both did different sorts of damage against different armors, so it made a difference, but neither one was a run away choice. (except perhaps to the die hard min-maxers)

 

The issue with this is the differences become so minor that it isn't really what he's refering to, although it isn't a bad system. The reason I think each race should have different classes, is that copying a class across races makes each race feel stock, and you don't see the different philosophies and cultures and physiques reflected in the classes.

An elf warrior for example would make use of their agility and fighting precision, but weaker attacks, whereas a dwarf warrior would make more use of pure strength and heavy, but slow blows. So to suit these differences more, the elf might use a weapon like a pole-arm that gives the elf greater ability to manevour around a target, whereas the dwarf would use a heavy warhammed for slow, but very powerful and lethal swings.

If both the elf and dwarf use a sword and shield, it completely kills the uniqueness of each race.

Not just weapon selection, but types of moves as well. The elf should be using graceful attacks and focusing on parrying, whereas I'd the dwarf having more moves that stun or do massive damage out-right, but slower. Like the dwarf could have mighty smash which does lots of damage and stuns, whereas the elf would have graceful blows, which is three attacks in quick succession, each with greater damage than the last (just as examples). This makes the races feel different.

Or to use another example, a gnome fighter against an ogre fighter, that's really stupid if they both use the same weapons and fighting styles. The gnome should incorporate some technlogy like throwing a grenade or rolling to roll behind a target, whereas the ogre should focus on smashing the ground to make targets fly in the air, etc.

If races have the same classes, it ends up meaning races are just mostly cosmetic, or if the differences are too great, everyone takes the good one. If this game had warriors, why take say a gnome warrior with a strength of 10, over the ogre with 50 strength? And the ogre say can wear armour without mobility penalty, whereas the gnome is incumbered because of being so small?

That's why races should have different classes, because otherwise racial traits are so small they are meaningless, and races just seem like cosmetic differences, or one race becomes the best, and you pretty much are forced into it. With different classes for each race, you can avoid this issue.

Well it depends,you can have 10 races but if done with no effort,super cheap like i see MOST games doing th eRACE thing,it doesn't help to have more.

You NEED racial properties and different habitat ,living areas for each race,heck some games have 1-2 starting spots,no racial attributes,just boggles my mind why people would support such a lack of effort.

My preference would be 7 very well designed races.7 starting cities.Each race has it's own unique crafts and harvests/growing ect ect.My fave game only had 5 but they did a very good job at making each unique.