Originally posted by bcbully

Hear Forbes estimated that WoW would lose 25% of its base to GW2. I don't think that has happened either.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2012/08/02/world-of-warcraft-guild-wars-2-and-vivendi-activisions-achilles-heel/2/

 

Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that WoW may gain close to 10-15% with panda land.

..but for how long?  MoP just came out.  How many will end up coming back to GW2?  Some, at the very least.

People say it is B2P and thus they don't care about activity, but that is not true. Part of the business plan is the ingame shop.

I believe we are talking about a flop here. I would also call Call of Duty or Battlefield 3 flops if their activity levels slipped severely.

GW2 is on a very steep downward trend (XFire), and I don't believe it will recover for some time. As a competitor against the behemoth WoW it has flopped.

Originally posted by mxbx
The fact is, this is just another in a long line of flops that's failing to live up to the hype.  Does anyone seriously deny that ArenaNet is spiking their sales numbers?  And let's not forget: it failed as F2P right out of the gate, where ToR and many other games managed to run P2P for at least a few months.  How can the ArenaNet fanbois call ToR a failure and GW2 a success when ToR managed to hold subs for months? 

Yeah, you're right... it'll prolly go f2p... owait.

Is it too early to call this thread a flop?

Are you serious with this thread?  Geez, at least most people waited a few months (and many lost subs) before they called TOR a flop.

It's not a real MMORPG, but it certainly isn't a _flop_.

Called this waaay before the launch.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

What is it with you people?

 

There are tons of MMORPGs on the market today -- none of them have had over a million subscribers six months after release.  Who cares if the game has 11 million players or 50,000?  As long as whatever servers exist have a healthy population and the game maintains a development team which is continuing to add content to the game to please their core playerbase, it shouldn't be considered a failure.

Maybe it isn't a universal success, but as long as you're enjoying it, that's all that should matter.

Very true. Should spend less time worrying about whether or not a game they don't personally like is going fail and more time enjoying the various games that are available. If you don't like a game, that's fine, just please go find one that you do like instead of spending time trying to tear it down.

With succesful gw2 lunch, and what it has achieved in this short time can it ever be consider a flop overall in the future ?

This kind of question would make more sense.

I don't think you can ever really call a game that sells over 2mil copies a flop, especially when it was B2P.

I do wonder some though.. a lot of my guildies are bored and have already moved on.. like others have said, shortest time in an MMO ever.

I find it hard to login.. the economy is so bad people are selling things for less than cost to make and post (20 slot boxes sell for less than the store purchased material and the posting fee).

Another indication could be the price for Gems to Gold.  It opened at around 29s, dropped to 17s and now it's back up to 26s.  So less people seem to be trading Gems for Gold.

Personally I can't seem to make money crafting anything in the economy with the trading house cross server.  The only way I can make even small profits is by farming hours for mats and posting it but usually someone undercuts me right away.  Buying the mats to craft something? Major profit loss 98% of the time.

I have to wonder if this is all of the hackers crafting and selling crafted items made with stolen mats.  I have no idea except that I don't think I've ever seen a worse economy in an MMO before.

Originally posted by Dakirn

Another indication could be the price for Gems to Gold.  It opened at around 29s, dropped to 17s and now it's back up to 26s.  So less people seem to be trading Gems for Gold.

Or more people trading gold for gems?  As more and more people get higher level, more and more can afford it, which would drive the price up.

Originally posted by Dakirn

I don't think you can ever really call a game that sells over 2mil copies a flop, especially when it was B2P.

 

I do wonder some though.. a lot of my guildies are bored and have already moved on.. like others have said, shortest time in an MMO ever.

 

I find it hard to login.. the economy is so bad people are selling things for less than cost to make and post (20 slot boxes sell for less than the store purchased material and the posting fee).

 

Another indication could be the price for Gems to Gold.  It opened at around 29s, dropped to 17s and now it's back up to 26s.  So less people seem to be trading Gems for Gold.

 

Personally I can't seem to make money crafting anything in the economy with the trading house cross server.  The only way I can make even small profits is by farming hours for mats and posting it but usually someone undercuts me right away.  Buying the mats to craft something? Major profit loss 98% of the time.

 

I have to wonder if this is all of the hackers crafting and selling crafted items made with stolen mats.  I have no idea except that I don't think I've ever seen a worse economy in an MMO before.

Or was the item drop rate made so high intentionally to encourage buying gems? Idk either but it can't go much lower before people just start to barter.

Originally posted by bcbully

From a financial stand point it probably isn't, depending on how much profit they were looking to make. It would be interesting to see what last quarter's report projected.

 

From a personal stand point it tops my list of flops, if I go by play time.. This is the shortest time I've played an mmo.

There is no such thing as "financial flop vs perosnal flop"

Flop is ALWAYS considered on a financial/popularity perspective.

Personal is just called opinions/dislikes/disappointments, because you may be in the minority of the total buyer that don't like it and stop playing, especially considering the sample size of you out of 2 million people.

You can't take a quantitive word and use it as a qualitive word - because if you do so you are intentionally distorting it's meaning just to falsify your opinion as fact. 

Originally posted by mxbx
The fact is, this is just another in a long line of flops that's failing to live up to the hype.  Does anyone seriously deny that ArenaNet is spiking their sales numbers?  And let's not forget: it failed as F2P right out of the gate, where ToR and many other games managed to run P2P for at least a few months.  How can the ArenaNet fanbois call ToR a failure and GW2 a success when ToR managed to hold subs for months? 

You understand that TOR didn't hold people right ? They come and go just like me and my friends (they ALL played TOR and now we all play GW2. Difference is that we stop playing TOR after less than a month and we were bored after 1-2 weeks while we still play GW2 and have a blast wasting noobs in PVP).

They are moving to F2P because came is too weak to pay sub for it. And it was failing fast because not so long ago Bioware said many times that F2P is "no go" and they are not even think about it at this point. And BAM!, they are going F2P because sub base went sh**. 

So why we cal GW2 a success ? Because it sell like hell, it's fun like hell, it's group oriented, it upgraded many things from MMO genre (or borrow good parts) and it's still fun. Except class story TOR is inferior to GW2 in EVERY aspect. Only advantage tor have is dialogue system from ME and only that. Because story itself is also inferior because GW2 stories branch and change while in TOR it's linear like the whole game.

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Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

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Originally posted by bcbully From a financial stand point it probably isn't, depending on how much profit they were looking to make. It would be interesting to see what last quarter's report projected.   From a personal stand point it tops my list of flops, if I go by play time.. This is the shortest time I've played an mmo.

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There is no such thing as "financial flop vs perosnal flop"

Flop is ALWAYS considered on a financial/popularity perspective.

Personal is just called opinions/dislikes/disappointments, because you may be in the minority of the total buyer that don't like it and stop playing, especially considering the sample size of you out of 2 million people.

You can't take a quantitive word and use it as a qualitive word - because if you do so you are intentionally distorting it's meaning just to falsify your opinion as fact. 

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lol

These forums are amazing sometimes.

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by bcbully

From a financial stand point it probably isn't, depending on how much profit they were looking to make. It would be interesting to see what last quarter's report projected.

 

From a personal stand point it tops my list of flops, if I go by play time.. This is the shortest time I've played an mmo.

There is no such thing as "financial flop vs perosnal flop"

Flop is ALWAYS considered on a financial/popularity perspective.

Personal is just called opinions/dislikes/disappointments, because you may be in the minority of the total buyer that don't like it and stop playing, especially considering the sample size of you out of 2 million people.

You can't take a quantitive word and use it as a qualitive word - because if you do so you are intentionally distorting it's meaning just to falsify your opinion as fact. 

GW2 was not disigned to be a lasting MMO  (Meaning you buy it, play for 1-5 months - > put away)  < ArenaNet's own words.

THAT'S why they gave it a BTP modell and that's why there isn't any raiding modell in game.

Too many of you seem to forget that. GW1 was made with that same ideal (and that wasn't even an MMO).

This game is a huge succes and the numbers show.

Originally posted by Djildjamesh

GW2 was not disigned to be a lasting MMO  (Meaning you buy it, play for 1-5 months - > put away)  < ArenaNet's own words.

THAT'S why they gave it a BTP modell and that's why there isn't any raiding modell in game.

 

Too many of you seem to forget that. GW1 was made with that same ideal (and that wasn't even an MMO).

This game is a huge succes and the numbers show.

Could you show me this quote from anet please?

You could, but why would you? They were happily surprised with their sales figures, which, as I recall , exceeded their initial expectations. 

The servers are all active, even levelling alts finds us playing with large crowds of people, every single one of these seem to point towards the exact opposite of a flop.

Actually, typing this out after having been in game just kind of makes me chuckle - maybe impressions from those eager for it to fail with opinions informed primarily by these forums and no real facts could lead you to such a poor conclusion, but it certainly seems far from the case.

I'd wait until player populations were noticably declining, rather than seemingly increasing - although, then you'd want to change the title to 'Is it too early to say population's declining?' as 'flop' would imply it wasn't successful - which is a conclusion only the least informed troll would even pretend to arrive at after news of its successful launch was all but inescapable. And I'm sure that's not your goal, right?;)

I don't understand what you people want from threads like this. What - if anything - do you intend to learn here / accomplish with this?

And YES! it's too early. My god, it's been less than two months!

And on what basis would one even call GW2 a flop? WvWvW is still fraggin' overbooked and active as it's ever been. Personally, I haven'T noticed any significant decline in population per zone (even the low LvL zones are still packed with DE-zergs). And apart from the meta-issues (inflation, accounts being hacked, botting/scamming/goldselling) the core gameplay is very much bug-free.

Considering in SWToR I was crash-disconnected every few half hours in the beginning I'd call GW2 ... "efficiently resilient" if anything.

Originally posted by mxbx
The fact is, this is just another in a long line of flops that's failing to live up to the hype.  Does anyone seriously deny that ArenaNet is spiking their sales numbers?  And let's not forget: it failed as F2P right out of the gate, where ToR and many other games managed to run P2P for at least a few months.  How can the ArenaNet fanbois call ToR a failure and GW2 a success when ToR managed to hold subs for months? 

No its not to early to call GW2 a flop. Its to LATE.

When something has proven itself a success, its is to late to argue its a flop.

And OP trying to invent arguments out of the blue, like claiming that ArenaNet is lying about sales numbers, is the best prove there is that there is no real foundation to call it anything but a success.