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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » PvE server for darkfall UW?

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365 posts found
  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

9/30/12 2:52:50 AM#61
The PVE Server is planned for the next patch, which will be titled Darkfall: Holy Battles, and will come with the Darkfall standard full game price and character wipe.

El Psy Congroo

  indef

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/12
Posts: 360

9/30/12 3:05:28 AM#62

absolutely NOT!!!!

A PvE server in Darkfall is the equivalent of saying there should be a basketball league where there is no ball...

...a UFC league with no fighting...

...an FPS with no guns...

you get the idea.

 

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 947

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

9/30/12 3:05:58 AM#63
I wouldn't personally be bothered by a PvE only server for Darkfall, but as others have mentioned it probably wouldn't work on systematic and mechanical levels. With further expanded tools for building, loot randomization or item crafting, and skill customization I wouldn't mind playing a single player model of the game, though I do feel the atmosphere is more exciting or dangerous when player conflict is involved.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  IAmMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 1320

9/30/12 3:07:04 AM#64
Nope you have to waste your time on gathering resources so you can be farmed by other players using their autohotkey macros and lag swtiches.
  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1267

9/30/12 11:31:20 AM#65

One of the things that AV have done very well is to work within their budget and manage their resources - compared to EA and Activision AV are a tiny, tiny company. Sure they upset a lot of people on day 1 when they only opened 1 server adding additional capacity incrementally as the game sold. (It is a server farm, EVE style, albeit on a much smaller scale). 

And the careful approach worked. DF1 has been "a success". Sure it hasn't sold millions of copies but financially it is a success; it is still going; it has managed a 100% increase in the number of servers (!) and has now spawned DF:UW. Perfect - pfft there are all sorts of "fails" people can talk about. In the niche it is in it has delivered and continues to do so. 

 

Now if AV had opened a PvE server the game would doubtless have sold more copies initially - but it would have sold more copies if it had opened 2 servers on day 1. But sticking to PvE - and ignoring complaints about ,not being able to buy the game and / or queues how long would it have taken for people to complain about the lack of new content? That they had hit max. skill (!!!) and there were no challenges in the game, they were bored, they needed new quests, new missions, new rewards, high end content etc? To ask (rightly) why they were paying a sub. And then of course complain about an empty server and suggest the game went F2P. Remember DF is not designed as a PvE game, what dungeons there are are extras.

DF:UW will be no different.

 

DarkFall is a niche product; its competitors are games like Mortal Online. The prospect of PvE servers and millions of extra subscribers is always tempting .... but the corpses of many PvE games provide a stark warning. I can't see it happening - ever.

That said what AV might - at some point - be able to do is repackage DF1 as a B2P PvE single player game that people could download and run on their PC - thereby leveraging their investment. It is somewhat ironic that the AI is some of the best there is out there!  

 

There was a minority view that Mythic should never have created Shrouded Isles - the first DAoC expansion. It was hailed as a (PvE) success and new players came into the game as Mythic by their own admission attempted to emulate EQ1 but a lot of "dedicated" PvPer's left. And in the end Mythic were unable to generate enough PvE content to keep the players happy. They left their niche and paid the penalty.

And whilst people talk about how Asheron's Call managed to have both PvE and PvP it was launched in a different age; there was uO, EQ1 and AC. That was basically it as far as online mmo's went.

  Onigod

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 692

9/30/12 11:34:32 AM#66

NO.. IT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN.

 

stop with these topics already... Just dont play this game and find something you do like.

  Onigod

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 692

9/30/12 11:37:48 AM#67
Originally posted by gervaise1

It is somewhat ironic that the AI is some of the best there is out there!  

 

This also made me wonder many times..  There are loads of things in darkfall 1 that just make you go mehhh  But you sure are fighting something that seems to have a brain, the mobs really want to survive. 

 

Why other games still have the mobs standing infront of you almost holding a sign saying "I am waiting to be killed and wont do anything to stop you" makes me wonder.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1171

9/30/12 11:43:05 AM#68
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by googie23
its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

 

There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

 

 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  CcDohl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 65

9/30/12 12:05:44 PM#69
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by googie23
its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

 

There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

 

 

I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

9/30/12 12:15:52 PM#70
Originally posted by CcDohl
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by googie23
its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

 

There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

 

 

I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

 Seperate ruleset servers would eat into AVs limited resoucres, id rather AV focus on DF-UW as
envisioned ! A PVE server would require additional coding, its own patches ,ect...

 

If they dont like DF for what it is, move on.  Its really that simple!

 

  123443211234

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 231

9/30/12 12:18:54 PM#71
Originally posted by CcDohl
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by googie23
its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

 

There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

 

 

I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

There are several problems which have been discussed in detail apparently you people pushing for a PVE server lack reading comprehension.  Here are the top three reasons:

 

1. Core mechanics of DF are ffa pvp THE ENTIRE GAME IS DESIGNED AROUND PVP.  (I know its hard for you carebears to imagine but DF is designed around conflict, they would have to change the entire game to make a pve server.

 

2. Aventurine is a very very small company, they do not have the resources to cater to pve players.  (It would take a great deal of time and effort to maintain a pve server, thus taking away from their ability to maintain the pvp server, thus ruining the game)

 

3.Aventurine is making a game that THEY WANT TO PLAY.  This means they do not care about millions of subs and world wide fame, they care about.....making a game they want to play.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1171

9/30/12 12:32:19 PM#72
Originally posted by CcDohl
 

I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

Saying you "don't see what the problem is" is not a compelling point. It's an argument from incredulity. You have no idea what circumstances are or what parameters they are working within. No one here does (unless they're secretly an AV employee of course :-p)

I don't know the specific reasons why AV wouldn't want to add a PvE server, but I think I can make a pretty good guess..

Because a PvE game isn't what they're interested in making. Aventurine was created with the specific goal of creating a sandboxy, very "Wild West" style, open world MMORPG with FFA World PvP, in the spirit of old Ultima Online.

That's really the only reason they need.

They knew when they were making DF1 that they were catering to a niche audience. They know as they're developing DF:UW that they're still catering to a niche audience. They're not doing this blind. I'm sure they're well aware of the "greater population" of people who prefer PvE gameplay. Yet they continue creating a MMO based around FFA PvP. That tells me that they have a very firm idea of the kind of game they want to make, the kind of experience they want it to be, and the kind of people they want to cater to. It's quite clearly not people who prefer PvE or consensual, no-risk PvP.

And that's pretty much all that needs to be said.

 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3567

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

9/30/12 12:36:48 PM#73
Originally posted by Yalexy

 


Originally posted by graffix_75

Originally posted by Yalexy  

Originally posted by 123443211234 NO Everything in Darkfall revolves around pvp and the ability to be killed at any time.  A pve only server would be an entirely different game.  Although the pve in Darkfall is better, harder, and more interesting than any other mmo I've ever played it will never come close to preparing someone for a pvp encounter.  (i.e. your get comfortable and transfer comment)
  And that's exactly the reason why DF:UW will fail the same way as DF1. A meaningless gankfest with FPS-combat.... I'd rather play any other FPS where there's no monthly subscription.
Exactly right, Planetside 2 is a good example of a subless MMOFPS.

 

I know a ton of people that quit DF purely on the basis of the PvP mechanics, even an Eve online type system would work.


 

Firefall would be another one :)

True, and a very good one at that. If it ever gets out of beta <grin> 

  Pumuckl71

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 127

9/30/12 12:40:31 PM#74

oh boy  how a  simple question  calls  some ppl  to verbal arms .

I remember when the time, when YOU  hailed  DF as the best MMO xpririence  "EVAH"

"                                               " when you went berserk bout  the eurogamer review and

                                                   showed protest   by declaring war

                                                   altogether on eurogamer

"                                               " the Tasos dude did the same but even more like a 4 yeart old

":                                               "  when the same community that praised the game called it 4

                                                     month later  unfinished  and hated the guts of the Tasos guy

 

Now a guy pops up asking a simple question  and you redicule him , as if  DF is the mother of sandboxes .If DF is anything ..then its mindless  grind into oblivion  and a collective hive for gankers  , inluding the worst community ive ever witnessed  in an MMO

  UtukuMoon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1109

9/30/12 12:41:11 PM#75
Originally posted by googie23
its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

Why not just play Vanguard,it has an open non instanced world and has many sandbox features but it's an PVE game.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ymgFyzbDo

  Biskop

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 731

9/30/12 12:43:49 PM#76
Why can't you people give up already? DF will never have a PVE server, live with or play some other game. You only have 1000000000000 titles to chose from...
  Hairysun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1068

Boo ....

9/30/12 12:45:39 PM#77

PvE server for darkfall UW?

 

I read that and can't help but smile.  As many have said, the chances of this happening are very slim.  It goes against the core of AVs beliefs in what makes a game good. 

 

You might as well ask "Will Blizzard make a Open PvP / Full Loot server in WoW?" 

 

~Hairysun

 

http://www.straightdope.com/

  CcDohl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 65

9/30/12 12:46:58 PM#78
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by CcDohl
 

I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

Saying you "don't see what the problem is" is not a compelling point for it. It's an argument from incredulity. Because you can't personally see what the problem would be, doesn't mean there wouldn't be problems, many of them perhaps. You have no idea what it's like working behind the scenes at AV or what they deal with on a day-to-day basis.

I don't know the specific reasons why AV wouldn't want to add a PvE server, but I think I can make a pretty good guess..

Because a PvE game isn't what they're interested in making. Aventurine was created with the specific goal of creating a sandboxy, very "Wild West" style, open world MMORPG with FFA World PvP, in the spirit of old Ultima Online.

That's really the only reason they need.

They knew when they were making DF1 that they were catering to a niche audience. They know as they're developing DF:UW that they're still catering to a niche audience. They're not doing this blind. I'm sure they're well aware of the "greater population" of people who prefer PvE gameplay. Yet they continue creating a MMO based around FFA PvP. That tells me that they have a very firm idea of the kind of game they want to make, the kind of experience they want it to be, and the kind of people they want to cater to. It's quite clearly not people who prefer PvE or consensual, no-risk PvP.

As it stands, they're already making a pretty significant concession in creating newbie areas safe from PvP to allow new players the chance to learn the game, etc. Shadowbane - considered one of the most brutally hardcore FFAPvP MMORPGs ever released - did the same thing, and it was actually a good system. It's one thing being ganked when you've had time to learn the ropes and understand the basic gameplay. It's something else entirely when you're ganked while you're still brand-new to the game and trying to figure out which way up is.

The PvE scene is absolutely saturated. There are literally hundreds of other MMOs out there that already cater to exactly what you're looking for. Surely one of them has to be up your alley? Why not play one of those, instead of arguing for a developer doing something different to become yet another developer trying to "cater to everyone"?

 

Thanks for the logic lesson, let me respond. The saturation of the market, my specific tastes in games, and your own vision of the players to whom the game is catering are irrelevant to the argument.  You're mad over nothing, and kind of a tool.

I hate PVE games, and I don't play them. I wouldn't play DF on the pve server.

I'm just saying that if a PVE server brings in more money for the game, it would be a good thing. If not, it wouldn't. That's all. It wouldn't ruin the game for anyone, and if the pve is as good as people are claiming, it may be a good alternative for some people who are tired of themeparks but aren't quite in to the gankfest.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

9/30/12 12:55:25 PM#79
Originally posted by 123443211234
NO Everything in Darkfall revolves around pvp and the ability to be killed at any time.  A pve only server would be an entirely different game.  Although the pve in Darkfall is better, harder, and more interesting than any other mmo I've ever played it will never come close to preparing someone for a pvp encounter.  (i.e. your get comfortable and transfer comment)

NO really?  Why because you would be tempted to play on it?    Why in the hell do YOU care what people do with their own time? You dont like, dont play on it.

DF needs more subs and more money than their full loot PvP servers could ever produce.  They need this revenue to bring REGULAR updates to the game.  Something we never saw in the original DF.

A PvE / no loot PvP server for DFUW would quadruple their sub base the revenue base and the amount of conent.

  CcDohl

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 65

9/30/12 1:00:55 PM#80
Originally posted by 123443211234
Originally posted by CcDohl
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by googie23
its a great way to bring alot of new players into the darkfall world and when they are ready they can  come to the PvP server and start a new character. never make an option to transfer from PvE to PvP.

If you dont like Mexican food, dont go to a Mexican restaurant and ask them to make you spaghetti.

 

There are a 1000 carebear games out there, why do you people insist on trying to change the few PVP ones?

Because the idea of a game existing that doesn't cater specifically to "them" pisses a lot of people off, regardless of how many other games do.

Because the idea that others might enjoy something they don't might shake their confidence that their preferences are "the right ones". This is why you see people citing numbers or popularity of a given playstyle so much. "More people agree with me, so I'm right and you're wrong. So there!".

It's the whole "stop liking what I don't like" mindest in action.

That someone enjoys a game and finds it worth their time and money should be all the justification they need. For many, sadly, it isn't.

People who enjoy FFA PvP should absolutely have a game - even several - that they can play and enjoy. People who are "offended" by the idea just need to suck it up and go play a game they enjoy.

If you're looking for a great steak, you don't go to a Vegan restaurant. You go to a steakhouse. if you're looking for a solid PvE experience, you go to a PvE-centric MMO, not a FFA PvP one.

I'd like to see Darkfall: Unholy Wars succeed and wish AV all the best in pulling it off. I'd like to see Mortal Online somehow turn it around and succeed. I like that Eve Online is out there, alive and kickin' all these years later. There are people who enjoy those games, and it's great that they have those options.  It doesn't have to be "Darkfall or Mortal or Eve". There should be plenty of room for everyone.

 

 

I still don't see the problem with a PVE server though. Assuming that the server is separate, with zero chance for crossover characters, and assuming that it makes money and brings more people to the games, it wouldn't harm any aspect of the currently existing game, and could work to improve it with the money that comes in from the new subscribers.

The only way a PVE server could be a negative is if it fails to bring enough people to support itself. That could affect the quality of the game, but the existance of the PVE server itself  has zero effect on a pvp player's experience.

There are several problems which have been discussed in detail apparently you people pushing for a PVE server lack reading comprehension.  Here are the top three reasons:

 

1. Core mechanics of DF are ffa pvp THE ENTIRE GAME IS DESIGNED AROUND PVP.  (I know its hard for you carebears to imagine but DF is designed around conflict, they would have to change the entire game to make a pve server.

 

2. Aventurine is a very very small company, they do not have the resources to cater to pve players.  (It would take a great deal of time and effort to maintain a pve server, thus taking away from their ability to maintain the pvp server, thus ruining the game)

 

3.Aventurine is making a game that THEY WANT TO PLAY.  This means they do not care about millions of subs and world wide fame, they care about.....making a game they want to play.

Okay, fair enough. Obviously it would be a business decision that they would make. However, I don't see how it could be a bad thing if it brings in more players and money for the company. The only people who would be mad are the troglodytes who get angry over other people playing games a certain way. You're not a troglodyte, are you?

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