Originally posted by DAS1337

That's because it's never really been about the grind.  It's the hacking and exploiting that caused a huge gap between veterans and new players.  It's a jack of all trades system that allowed it in the first place.  However, they couldn't completely fix it without a wipe.  Well, now their hands were forced into just that.

 

There are a ton of aspects about the game that are going to be fixed, along with the GUI/UI and graphics upgrades.  I think they will see a significant boost in population compared to the original game.  I wish one of the fixes was streamlining the combat perspective, but that doesn't change my opinion.

"Players can switch between roles, skills, spells, and ability boosters on the fly." 

Taken from the DF UW website. Being able to change on the fly is making people jack of all trades. Unless they made a mistake and still have the timer to put on armour as is in DF1.0, but then why say on the fly?

IMO the grind to get all available skills will not significantly lowered, just the role system will allow some roles (like warrior and skirmisher) to be fast to max and in general every role will be faster to max than the "max it all" hybrid everyone had to be in DF1.

Originally posted by Hancakes

Most of the skilled players left DF within the first 3 months.   DF turned into the old "big fish in a little pond"  and Im sure most "good" vets are fearing a wipe and a return of real talent.

This is cute. The big fish in the little pond have been big fish for 4 years. The real darkfall vets, who have been playing the game are going to have a huge advantage over all the "old schoolers". Good luck to you at release but I'm sure most of your kind will have some excuse blaming the game after you get trashed by real darkfall vets.

If it makes you feel better OP you can numlock swim into a bridge for hours on end for your own pleasure.

There will be grinds in Unholy Wars, there is zero doubt about that. They do though seem to be looking at reducing the amount of time it takes to get pvp viable by reducing the "no cap, max everything to compete" problem via the inclusion of spec roles.

Which is a good thing.

Originally posted by king0fmars

Originally posted by Hancakes

Most of the skilled players left DF within the first 3 months.   DF turned into the old "big fish in a little pond"  and Im sure most "good" vets are fearing a wipe and a return of real talent.

This is cute. The big fish in the little pond have been big fish for 4 years. The real darkfall vets, who have been playing the game are going to have a huge advantage over all the "old schoolers".

 So it now takes four years to master DF?  (talk about slow learners)

Originally posted by IAmMMO

Originally posted by DAS1337

That's because it's never really been about the grind.  It's the hacking and exploiting that caused a huge gap between veterans and new players.  It's a jack of all trades system that allowed it in the first place.  However, they couldn't completely fix it without a wipe.  Well, now their hands were forced into just that.

 

There are a ton of aspects about the game that are going to be fixed, along with the GUI/UI and graphics upgrades.  I think they will see a significant boost in population compared to the original game.  I wish one of the fixes was streamlining the combat perspective, but that doesn't change my opinion.

"Players can switch between roles, skills, spells, and ability boosters on the fly." 

Taken from the DF UW website. Being able to change on the fly is making people jack of all trades. Unless they made a mistake and still have the timer to put on armour as is in DF1.0, but then why say on the fly?

1) Theres a cool down on roll changing

2) Once in a roll (which everyone will probably have to pick) your access to skills is restricted

The progression will still be there. You can spend time mastering a ton of skills. The difference now is you can only use a very specific set at once, you choose a loadout from what you've mastered, essentially. Just like Eve. Best of both worlds really.

And why do people keep mentioning hacking? Hacking was a problem like.. once, 3 months after launch. Then they all got banned. After that, I didn't see another hacker again for 2 years.

Originally posted by CallsignVega
So the game won't be re-launched and start from scratch? That seems silly as new players will just get slaughtered by old ones for a long time. 

They didn´t write anything yet. But u can be 99.,95% sure that they will wipe everything!

Originally posted by CallsignVega
Does anyone know how much they are revamping the graphics and the animations? I remember beta testing DF and the graphics and animations were some of the worst I've ever seen. Was a huge turnoff.

Worst you've ever seen, have you played WoW? Now that's an eyesore.

But yes the graphics have all been redone and the animations are motion captured.

Personally I'd be happy with a battle arena MMO. No progression, no handicaps, just fighting and looting and building. But that's just me. :P

The combat really should be at the core of this game. The main thing that made me quit Darkfall 1 was how empty and boring it was most of the time. They really didn't do much to encourage factional warfare, just ganking. Which forced players to stay in their clan cities and left the rest of the world abandoned.

I never understood the concept of grind. It's like a substitute for actually learning a skill, usually when a game doesn't require enough of it to be interesting.

I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

Originally posted by phantomghost

I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

 

However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

 

I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

 

What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

When it takes a year to reach level that another player is, that doesn't equal "hard work" (pls. don't take EVE into comparison). That equals 180$ us, a f%¤ton of macroing nights etc. I don't call that "playing/hard work" i call it tenacity (which isn't what games are about, games are about fun, entertainment and competition on equal basis "gameplay wise" player skill is another discussion.) ps. macroing still exists for skillgains.

You could master everything, with macroing nights, bloodwalls, spin-swimming, acidpooling etc etc.

And whoop, on the flipside, your now defending the casual players? making it more balanced?

Did i miss some critical point in your post, or why does it seem like you love the advantage of exploiting, macroing and whatnot, but you want balance accross the plane for equality?

What i fear most for the "new game" is that exploiters will not be permabanned for "acidpooling, bloodwalling" etc. AV needs to take a strict policy for that kind of behavious from the get-go, to make the game work for the wider audience!

Originally posted by CallsignVega
Does anyone know how much they are revamping the graphics and the animations? I remember beta testing DF and the graphics and animations were some of the worst I've ever seen. Was a huge turnoff.

No one has seen the "new" engine, animations.. there are some screenshots of the new build on this site for starters. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/875/view/screens altho they're all enviromental shots, (+ they have some renders on their forums if you dig deep enough)

Animation wise, im not too convinced, there won't be mocapped stuff which im pretty sure of and im also not waiting for crysis graphics (simply because it is supposed to cater for 100+ vs 100+ sieges). It'll be somewhat similar, but hopefully alot better, only time will tell, untill then, we'll just have to wait for a gameplay video.

All in all, i think it'll be more of the same, not much will be changed animations/graphics wise, just some shaders and dynamic lighting perhaps some fixed/smoother animations and sharper textures, but that's about it. It's not like it's an entirely new engine and stuff, it's just an enhanced version of the old engine.

I'd compare it to launch EQ1 to "2004" EQ1 "GFX upgrade"

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by phantomghost

I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

 

However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

 

I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

 

What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

 

When it takes a year to reach level that another player is, that doesn't equal "hard work" (pls. don't take EVE into comparison). That equals 180$ us, a f%¤ton of macroing nights etc. I don't call that "playing/hard work" i call it tenacity (which isn't what games are about, games are about fun, entertainment and competition on equal basis "gameplay wise" player skill is another discussion.) ps. macroing still exists for skillgains.

 

You could master everything, with macroing nights, bloodwalls, spin-swimming, acidpooling etc etc.

 

And whoop, on the flipside, your now defending the casual players? making it more balanced?

Did i miss some critical point in your post, or why does it seem like you love the advantage of exploiting, macroing and whatnot, but you want balance accross the plane for equality?

 

 

What i fear most for the "new game" is that exploiters will not be permabanned for "acidpooling, bloodwalling" etc. AV needs to take a strict policy for that kind of behavious from the get-go, to make the game work for the wider audience!

[mod edit]

After stating I like the grind I stated:

However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

And as far as the word hardwork, I cannot think of the perfect word.  I like that somebody who puts more time into their character (them putting time not their macros hacks and exploits) have an advantage over somebody who does not.  I feel the word hardwork was good enough that you would realize macroing or exploiting is not "hardwork" even if the word hardwork is not an appropriate word to state the effort someone puts in... since its a video game and should not technically me hardwork. 

I do not defend the casual player by making it balanced.  If you read what I stated I want the game to be what it was stated having limits, not maxing out every single skill.  I also do not want one skill to be the "best" way to go for all scenarios.

Originally posted by redman875

Im a firm beliver that eventhough a lot of hardcore pvpers stated the grind as the reason for the current games lack of overwhelming populairity...every time theyve reduced grind population remained the same.  Even now with its retarded 20x XP.

The answer is rather simple: People have no desire to play a game that is going to be wiped, and which also doesn't offer any unique roles like in Unholy Wars, so even with faster experience people are waiting till the next game.

Case closed.

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by phantomghost

I personally enjoyed the grind.  I like that someones hardwork gives them an advantage.

 

However, the main issue for me was exploiting occurred early on and that separated abilities early on, allowing exploiters to have a significant advantage.

 

I also went into the game wanting what they said... using 1 skill may decrease another, so you could not master everything.

 

What it seemed like was to rule pvp you needed to max magic/archery.  I hope this time with the roles, it makes it more balanced so not everybody is the same. 

 

When it takes a year to reach level that another player is, that doesn't equal "hard work" (pls. don't take EVE into comparison). That equals 180$ us, a f%¤ton of macroing nights etc. I don't call that "playing/hard work" i call it tenacity (which isn't what games are about, games are about fun, entertainment and competition on equal basis "gameplay wise" player skill is another discussion.) ps. macroing still exists for skillgains.

 

You could master everything, with macroing nights, bloodwalls, spin-swimming, acidpooling etc etc.

 

And whoop, on the flipside, your now defending the casual players? making it more balanced?

Did i miss some critical point in your post, or why does it seem like you love the advantage of exploiting, macroing and whatnot, but you want balance accross the plane for equality?

 

 

What i fear most for the "new game" is that exploiters will not be permabanned for "acidpooling, bloodwalling" etc. AV needs to take a strict policy for that kind of behavious from the get-go, to make the game work for the wider audience!

You problem, and the problem with moist who stayed in DF, was their brain was wired to think like you..."i have to macro for x amount of time before i can play"

The mentality that it was unacceptable to leave town with a character anything below maxed was probably the dumbest community mentality ive seen in a mmorpg.

I didnt macro once, i actually ENJOYED playing the game.  Yes i was bad at pvp too...and still played.

I would rather be bad at pvp in a game that gets the adreniline pumping and offers a challange than dominate in an easy mode no risk themepark.

Removing the grind basically takes a game that had a decent pve side, that was under appreciated by those who stayed, and making this game wasically a persistant battleground type game.  Not sure that will have long term appeal, and i say this after playing 1.0 since like 2009

Oh and tons of players who would have love the game for its pve left at launch because of the way the game was set up, it was easy for griefers to camp the goblin spawns and camp people who hadnt learned the GUI ect. Really the only people who stayed were the ones who macroed and saw the game only for its pvp, which is kind of sad, 1.0 is an epic pve game if you enjoy farming, which yes, many still do.  I wonder what the game would look like with 5k pve players who dont mind pvp and 2k pvpers who loathe all things pve, rather than the current 3k pvpers and 50 pve'er...probably wouldnt be such a pain to find pvp in game.