Originally posted by Torgrim

i stopped reading after you endorsed exploting.

If they endorse an exploit, then it's not an exploit - it's a feature.

Originally posted by Mothanos

Gues not many inhere waged war in Eve ?

War when did it become even or fair ?

Only thing is free transfers should have been disabled before the 1 week long matches started.

 

My server Far Shiverpeaks went from 2 hours queeu to 6 hours queue in a matter of 4 days :(

 

Seems evry1 transfers off to winning servers -_-

In fact if you read my post, I endorsed EVEs style. But GW2 is not a hardcore sandbox. If they want to give us the tools to combat spying and sabotage, then bring it on. Since they wont, then AN should prevent it.

Originally posted by Xasapis

Originally posted by ZeGerman

...

Just to let you know the person who placed the siege weapon can kick anyone off their siege weapon at will.  You do however raise the point about a que spot.  It is ofcouse possible that a massive alliance could drasticaly reduce the number of players in a battle ground however a couple of spies does not make a difference in a fight.  There should however be a way to report someone as a spy and have aNet check it out and kick them back to the server they are spying for. Once sever transfers cost real money this could be a very interesting dynamic.  Then i could see the best spies who have infiltrated alliances hiring out their services for a lot of gold because of the high risk that once your caught you cant do it anymore.  This could be an awesome dynamic with a little thought put into it.

Most organised groups use voice communication software outside the game, so there is usually nothing in Anet's log to verify that somebody is a spy.

The only way to limit the problem somewhat would be to put some cooldown timer in transfers (like most Korean mmorpgs do, westerners need to learn a lot from the design of those games, they are way better suited for PvP in terms of rules and regulations). Even that however would not solve the issue of somebody buying a second box and planting a character in the opposite server battleground.

Originally posted by mCalvert

The problem with cheating is the mechanics are in favor of the cheater.

1. they take up a queue spot

2. you cant cant kill them

3. if you expose them they can create infinite alts

4. they can lock down seige weps with no way to kick them off

 

This is not real life. This is a game, and games have rules to ensure a fun and competitive atmosphere where people play with sportsmanship. THis is why you cant horsecollar a football player or excessivly celebrate, or take a dive in sports. AN wants this to be an esport, and there is no sport on earth where spying is allowed.

Now, if you want to make this a full loot, permadeath game with friendlyfire, then we will be happy to sort the problem out ourselves.

1. The queue spot by itself is meaningless. It's the information (or misinformation) that is transferred that is more important. You lose more people doing jumping puzzles, running around doing world objectives or just afking in the respawn area if you're talking about fighting force numbers.
2. Killing them doesn't remove them from the battleground. They can still see the map and they can still see map chat, even if you can prevent them from following you around.
3. This is not a problem, alts are account based. You'll notice that if you make an alt, your alt will be automatically in the guild your main is representing.
4. The person who placed the siege weapon can kick anybody and take over. It can be an issue if said person is not around.

 

You just confirmed everything I said, though it sounded like you were trying to rebutt.

WvW and sPvP could certainly benefit from more progression via FPS like horizontal progression of titles/rank/style and keep the power curve flat.

Which, I'm sure, is feedback they hear loud and clear and are planning on.

We're supposed to be getting some kind of big "status update" with insight on what's coming and what's in the way forward sometime in September so the rumors go.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

First off, I'm no PvPer. I'm fine with group battles and such, but for the most part I avoid it.

 

But let me say this: the rampant "exploitation" of the server transfers, or whatever, which has led to "spys" "subterfuge" and all that jazz is AWESOME. I think its a cool mechanic that should be pushed to its limits by the players.

 

 

I'm sure that this is, in fact, the correct way to PvP in GW2.

Tsk tsk dear boy. Don't you realize they're playing it wrong?

Originally posted by Torgrim

i stopped reading after you endorsed exploting.

I didn't stop reading, but I got the same disgusting feeling as you did.

Originally posted by mCalvert

The problem with cheating is the mechanics are in favor of the cheater.

1. they take up a queue spot

2. you cant cant kill them

3. if you expose them they can create infinite alts

4. they can lock down seige weps with no way to kick them off

 

This is not real life. This is a game, and games have rules to ensure a fun and competitive atmosphere where people play with sportsmanship. THis is why you cant horsecollar a football player or excessivly celebrate, or take a dive in sports. AN wants this to be an esport, and there is no sport on earth where spying is allowed.

Now, if you want to make this a full loot, permadeath game with friendlyfire, then we will be happy to sort the problem out ourselves.

This was put beautifully, and sums it up for me as well.  I'm sure others can come up with other reasons why encouraging and making the cheating so easy is a huge turn off to people who just want some decent PvP action.  I can't stand horrible arguments that "this is PvP", and "it's always been going on".  With the good changes that Anet has put forth in the first MMO I've liked in years, I can't believe they dropped the ball on reforming a little bit how the PvP works and crack down a bit more on the cheaters.  Like it's been said, the decent players have absolutely no way to stop the cheaters, which makes it all the more annoying, especially if Anet even encouarges it. 

WvW was the #1 reason I bought the game, and to be honest, this would be a game breaker to me if not at least cracked down on a little bit.  I know it hasn't even been out a month yet, and I'm curious if any attempt to stop this stuff, besides the paid server transfers, will be put into effect.

Originally posted by Xasapis

1. The queue spot by itself is meaningless. It's the information (or misinformation) that is transferred that is more important. You lose more people doing jumping puzzles, running around doing world objectives or just afking in the respawn area if you're talking about fighting force numbers.
2. Killing them doesn't remove them from the battleground. They can still see the map and they can still see map chat, even if you can prevent them from following you around.
3. This is not a problem, alts are account based. You'll notice that if you make an alt, your alt will be automatically in the guild your main is representing.
4. The person who placed the siege weapon can kick anybody and take over. It can be an issue if said person is not around.

1. Regardless of what others are doing, thats 1 less spot a guildie could be using to come help fight.

2. They can see the map, but that doesnt give you position of anyone unless youre already very close.

3. Ive got to wonder if you even play. Nothing regarding guilds matters account wide. Yes you are technically "in" the guild, but you do not automatically represent any guild. You have to click Represent in order to get the guild tag, etc on any new toon. You dont even need a new alt. You can just stand down at any time with any toon and there goes your tag. Representing is toon based, not account based.

Anyway for those who think "this is just war" or its not exploiting, etc.... It is exploiting, because theyre abusing a system that is only there for a limited time for the purpose of allowing people to move around freely until they find a good server for them. The free transfers are only temporary, and once that goes away they will have to pay to use such tactics. Doing it now for free, is abusing the free part. It will be kind of funny to see how fast some of those same servers get their asses kicked when they cant take advantage of it anymore and dont have someone constantly telling them the enemies moves, etc.

Originally posted by SirFubar
Funny to see how so many MMO players need some kind of reward at the end of the road for doing something and if they don't get it, they don't see the purpose of doing it or don't see the purpose of doing it for too long. Can't you guys just play to have fun? This mindset is one of the worst thing that happen to gaming for the past 10+ years. Games have been dumbed down because of this, a progression process inserted for the casuals noobs to feel good because they unlock/looted some stupid rewards. You nearly can't even play a game that has everything unlocked/ready to use from the start, always the need of stupid nonsense crap of progression. Nowadays every single games created nearly ALWAYS have some kind of progress and this is pretty stupid if you ask me.

 Except for the part were WvW is supposed to be meaningul I guess.  SPvP is there "just for the fun", WvW is supposed to mean something.  

There is no real impact on the game whether you win or lose in WvW.  In the end it turns into giant sPvP matches with people fighting over points for no other reason to participate in large PvP encounters, that isn't fun over the long haul. 

I paint for fun, in fact I didn't pursue a career in art because I wanted to keep it fun for me, that doesn't mean that I spend hours or days even doing a painting and then through it into a closet were no one ever sees it.  I paint for fun, I show off my works for the satisfaction I get from people enjoying what they're looking at; that is my REWARD for doing something that is fun for me. 

Fun does not encourage the vast magority of people to do something for long periods of time without getting bored of it.  You need to provide something that encourages peopel, beyond the fun factor, to keep doing it or they WILL stop. 

Most people would find sitting in a station in EVE, buying minerals, producing goods, and selling those goods as not a lot of fun because I literally spend the vast magority of my time in EVE staring at numbers and following trends.  For me, it's fun, but if I wasn't being reward for it -IE: becoming filthy space rich- I wouldn't keep doing it just for the fun.  There needs to be a POINT. 

There's no sense of impact in WvW on a personal level, not even really on a server wide level because the success or failure of my server in WvW is having no impact on the server outside of WvW. 

If Anet removed WvW from the game no one doing PvE would ever notice because the reward for winning in WvW isn't having any noticable impact on anyone doing PvE; yet they reward for winning WvW is that your server gets bonuses while doing PvE. 

Not to mention, the way things are laid out with 4 different zones, the entire 3 way pvp aspect of it isn't even really noticable.  I have not encountered a single instance were there was a fight between all 3 sides.  My entire experience with the WvWvW aspect of it is that each server tends to converge on a single map and control it, resulting in 2 way fights.  It's always green vs red, blue vs green, and red vs blue.  I have not encountered a single instance were it was green vs blue vs red in a single map. 

Perhaps if there was some incentive, in the way of rewards for winning more then one map that could be felt, and 3 of the maps weren't identical copies of the exact same map, people would actually spread out to other borderlands in an effort to actually try and win more then just one map.  As it stands, there doesn't seem to be any POINT to do this.  I only need to enter a single borderland if I want to do large scale pvp, and there's usually no reason to enter one that we're losing because it ends up being totally unbalanced in numbers to be fun. 

I can play FPS games for non presistant, meaningless PvP fun.  I play mmoRPG's for persitant meaningful fun, and that should carry over to PvP that is already intended to have purpose and meaning but fall short on those two points. 

PS:  The graphs they just released.  You'll notice, or maybe you didn't, that it shows a trend across all servers; not just high pop ones.  Q's have been steadily dropping for pretty much every server.  Anet hasn't actually done anything to alleviate the Q times, yet q times have been showing a steady drop over the course of the graphs across all servers.  That would indicate that fewer people are actively Qing for WvW.  It's very likely to do with people simly getting bored with the mindlessness of it. 

Originally posted by bcbully

Good review. 

 

Your feeling of "is it enough." is warrented. I hit a wall after alot of WvW hours (I was able to sit in the 3 hour queues >.<) played during the first three weeks. That left me asking "What for." 

 

Seems like there needs to be ranks or something, or an expanding of the skill system. 

 

For the record the garbage that's going on is not ok. Even if Anet says it is.

 

I'm with you on this one.  I don't even think about WvW anymore when I log in, it just doesn't have anything in it worth going for right now since most of the time you end up running around the map all day which is just annoying.  I can get my pvp fix in by doing sPVP which is fast and has an ok reward system, far faster to get into action that way than any day in WvW. 

I too think any form of "cheating" whether that be the rules of war or not, should be done away with.  It's a game not reality, we all paid to play.  Still love the game, just wish WvW had more incentive for me to do it.  The badges that drop for gear are too few and far between to farm for.  Would much rather have a rank system and a currency similar to glory for WvW.

I agree with most of the assessment of WvW in this review, although I haven't played enough to fully develop my own opinion yet. 

Concerning rewards, I think most people don't even notice them they're so insignificant.  When eating one piece of level 35 food provides more bonuses than max WvW rewards, and when people run around all the time without any food buff, you know they can't possibly care about or even notice the WvW bonuses. 

Originally posted by Homitu

I agree with most of the assessment of WvW in this review, although I haven't played enough to fully develop my own opinion yet. 

Concerning rewards, I think most people don't even notice them they're so insignificant.  When eating one piece of level 35 food provides more bonuses than max WvW rewards, and when people run around all the time without any food buff, you know they can't possibly care about or even notice the WvW bonuses. 

will agree bonuses could use a bump to make them little more meaningfull.. also more types of server rankings which I'm sure will get added at some point would help for people who won't just play for the "fun".. not many games release with much incentive to PVP though aside from maybe a set of gear.. Systems for PVP in place now imho are far more fleshed out than most even get released with and can only go up from here. 

Server transfers can occur once every 24 hours so I doubt spying is much of an exploit especially when you get a crossed sword icon anytime someone attacks something.  You don't need to be a mastermind to figure out where the action is.

Also, the primary issue with free server transfers is that it makes the "have not" servers even worse.  By have not I mean those servers who lose constantly in WVW.  People will just transfer to a server thats winning.  

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.  The only positive aspect is that when all these bandwagoners jump ship they help to increase the queue time on the server they went to.

The negative topics on this is null and will be proven in the next couple months. 

The majority of people are still trying to learn game mechanics... we're not even a month into release!? 

In Wv3 you have hundreds of hackers (across a variety of servers) tooling tricks to try to level or what not - you have have power levers w/ no real experience or achievements, and you have a lot of people experimenting with "what is this..?". You also have a few good players who know what they are doing and they are still the minority, but also the ones who are probably the ones complaining about it (not bad, just premature imo).

The player base doubled in size in under two weeks, to well over 2 mill, and while that is probably expected by everyone, the logistics of it is yet a different story. 

I'm just glad I can still run in and have a game that runs great. I'll focus on pvp once I KNOW my toon and have a full understanding of the diversity I can provide... then I'll probably start complaining :-P

Just tried WvW for the first time tonight...a lot to take in.  I must not be understanding this WvW stuff.  Did I really take equipment durability hits for deaths that I have to pay for?  I may be missing something as this is so silly I can't believe it.  Would it be possible to just play WvW to level and cover the costs?

It appears that the only way to have fun with this is to avoid the zerg and run off on your own or a small group behind enemy lines to screw with things.  When I was in the zerg the battle line went back and forth a bit but no one every accomplished anything other than dying and paying repair bills.

Originally posted by Mardukk

Just tried WvW for the first time tonight...a lot to take in.  I must not be understanding this WvW stuff.  Did I really take equipment durability hits for deaths that I have to pay for?  I may be missing something as this is so silly I can't believe it.  Would it be possible to just play WvW to level and cover the costs?

 

It appears that the only way to have fun with this is to avoid the zerg and run off on your own or a small group behind enemy lines to screw with things.  When I was in the zerg the battle line went back and forth a bit but no one every accomplished anything other than dying and paying repair bills.

 

 

It is possible, but you will never have more than 50 silver if you buy siege weapons. It's became slower as well once it went to 1 week games. 

Yeah at first that seems like a good idea, you will meet the zerg, and it may take away from you leveling missing what towers and keeps do fall. It would be nice if there some smaller points for small group type play. 

WvW is fun as hell when it's new. It's a real downer being broke all the time though. It makes you ask yourself "what for?" buing siege weapons hopung to kill enough people with them to make you money back.