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News & Features Discussion  » City of Heroes: Sunset FAQ Posted

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40 posts found
  teotius

Novice Member

Joined: 7/20/12
Posts: 105

9/28/12 7:45:11 AM#21
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 
  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 9:48:18 AM#22
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 608

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

9/28/12 10:14:45 AM#23
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

Hmm on the right track but not quite. :)

It's more like everyone bemoaning the closure of a local well-remembered grocery store, when in reality most of them now shop at the supermarket and don't bother with the local store anymore because the deals are much better at the supermarket.

COH was a highly innoviative MMO for it's time, I truly loved it for four years, (was following the development two years before release).  Everything has it's day in the sun though and I feel they botched up the F2P side and the game just became very old looking compared to it's competitors.

These boards have always had champions for this game, perception is reality to them, (if you believed everything you read here you'd think RIFT was one of the biggest MMO's in the world, if you don't like GW2 you should speak professional help, and that SWTOR died months ago), so they've always put a positive spin on the game regards of the last few years when it started to sink, (Going Rogue was rather crappy IMO, as well as some of the issue patches, content-wise, from what I hear).

 I have to thank COH really.  I'd always been fastinated by MMO's but never really got into them before COH, (I'd played EQ out of nessesity because of a girlfriend at the time).  COH was the first one I really, 'got', and the first that lived up to my own hype.  I'd probably never have met half the people, or spent anymore time in MMO's as a serious player, if it wasn't for COH.

So for that thank you, all good things....

 

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4839

9/28/12 10:22:53 AM#24
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

[mod edit]

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

9/28/12 10:31:48 AM#25
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Panther2103
Was really hoping the petitions could do something, oh well hope they can produce another game like this eventually.

It is over as far as NC Soft goes, but it may not be for the game,  if they sell it , which is what the main campaign is aiming for, not for NC Soft to reverse the decisoin, which they knew will not happen.

Not going to happen. They had a lot less to lose from selling Tabula Rasa than they do by selling off the CoH IP, and they didn't even do that much. With CoH, they had already looked and planned for CoH2 and a movie, which shows they were pretty invested in the franchise at one point. What happened recently is anyone's guess, but the overall subs didn't dip very far post F2P conversion. It sounds more like internal politics and less like money, which everyone unfairly assumes is the reason anything ever happens. 

It's more likely NCSoft will sit on the IP forever "just in case" they decide to do something with it. They may never, but if anyone else wants to, they'd have to pay NCSoft fees for the priviledge.

Paragon Studios and NC Soft are still in discussions of what will happen to the game. They have not said they will not sell it yet, but at least they are considering the option.

I've yet to see any information anywhere that says they are in talks and considering anything. The only information I've found is that the studio, Paragon Studios, is being dissolved. Gone entirely. And despite any supposed talks, if they're having any, they've come out and set an actual date the game closes. None of that sounds like they're considering other options. If you're referring to protests and staff of PS trying to convince them otherwise, that's not 'talks', which would suggest negotiating, that's just plees for help. I'd like it to be true as much as the next person though, so if you have source links for any negotiating going on behind the scenes, you should post it in here.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 10:32:48 AM#26
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 608

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

9/28/12 10:42:21 AM#27
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

 

I've already said what I wanted to say on the COH situation to you but you've got the GW2 model wrong here.

The game is not free, you pay a box price and there is a cash shop involved.  The cash shop sells gems which can be converted to gold.  On the trading post/vendors you can buy topline gear for gold also expensive crafting mats for legendary gear.  Gear has an effect endgame PVP which means having the best gear helps, as it does in some of the dungeons.  The prices for said gear are quite high and while you could grind the gold the game throws up all sorts of barriers to stop you making enough, (nerfing drops for farming, trading post being down constantly, etc).  Therefore to aquire this gear in a resonable amount of time, you need to buy gold. Hence that's really how there going to make profits longterm, don't believe the fanbois here, it makes sense really. How else would they keep it alive? 

 

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4839

9/28/12 10:44:44 AM#28
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

[mod edit]  Why would NCSoft close down CoX if it was generating millions of positive income??

After all the effort they have put into the game all those years? Huh!

They bought it from Cryptic and hired all the original staff. They created Paragon studios for them to continue supporting the game.

Then, when the game was going into the black figures (yes the game was dead with low pop on all servers at that time), NCSoft gave them a second chance to convert the game to Free 2 Play!

Since the game went Free 2 Play, it still couldn't hold enough people's interest nor make people willing to spend money to keep the game afloat!

Sure there was population on the Free servers, but if none of them is spending any money, it's not going to keep the game afloat!

There was only ONE single server for the subscribers only (which was also populated), but that is just one server with people paying up each month!

It's not enough to keep an entire studio in operation!

The game has been up and running for more than 8 and half years! That is more than most MMO's these days can hope for to achieve.

I have been subbed to it on and off till just few months ago and even on the subscriber server the population had dwindled and wasn't that high anymore!

I know people can get emotional and irrational when their most favorite game is being shut down.

But this one just had it coming sooner than later. It was inevitable.  It had more than two chances already. There comes a time when enough is enough.

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 10:49:33 AM#29
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

[mod edit]  Why would NCSoft close down CoX if it was generating millions of positive income??

After all the effort they have put into the game all those years? Huh!

They bought it from Cryptic and hired all the original staff. They created Paragon studios for them to continue supporting the game.

Then, when the game was going into the black figures (yes the game was dead with low pop on all servers at that time), NCSoft gave them a second chance to convert the game to Free 2 Play!

Since the game went Free 2 Play, it still couldn't hold enough people's interest nor make people willing to spend money to keep the game afloat!

Sure there was population on the Free servers, but if none of them is spending any money, it's not going to keep the game afloat!

There was only ONE single server for the subscribers only (which was also populated), but that is just one server with people paying up each month!

It's not enough to keep an entire studio in operation!

The game has been up and running for more than 8 and half years! That is more than most MMO's these days can hope for to achieve.

I have been subbed to it on and off till just few months ago and even on the subscriber server the population had dwindled and wasn't that high anymore!

I know people can get emotional and irrational when their most favorite game is being shut down.

But this one just had it coming sooner than later. It was inevitable.  It had more than two chances already. There comes a time when enough is enough.

Still no proof it was not making a profit, just your opinion.

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

9/28/12 10:51:18 AM#30
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

You're extrapolating from false information and it's letting your imagination run wild. For one, I sort of doubt you're in a position to say what % chance SWToR has of going down, whether or not I agree with you (which I sort of do, but am still not going to put it forward as valid information). Guild Wars 1/2 is run by Arena Net, who while a subsidiary of NCSoft, is not ~actually~ NCSoft. Paragon Studios is a wholly owned subsidiary, NCSoft has the right to dissolve them. Remember that Paragon Studios actually started as NC NorthCal, before given a title and dedicated to CoX. They're still NCSoft, though. This is not the same situation as say EA with Bioware; EA purchased Bioware by buying out a partnership in the works and in essence acquired the company as part of its own, like the underhanded little testicles they are. Even if SWToR does close down and Bioware goes kaput, that still puts them in a different position than Anet's relationship with NCSoft, which is why Anet is able to say that so long as anyone wants to play GW1 it will still be there.

However yes, you are right, CoX was still making a profit. May not have been a huge one, but they've been averaging between 7-8million per quarter, which is a hell of a lot more than many games still going run on. If they really wanted to, they could have just held off on updates until they accrued whatever financial comfort they felt necessary before investing in the manpower, but NCSoft didn't even consider it. They just want to wash their hands of the whole thing.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 10:51:31 AM#31
Originally posted by Omnifish
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

 

I've already said what I wanted to say on the COH situation to you but you've got the GW2 model wrong here.

The game is not free, you pay a box price and there is a cash shop involved.  The cash shop sells gems which can be converted to gold.  On the trading post/vendors you can buy topline gear for gold also expensive crafting mats for legendary gear.  Gear has an effect endgame PVP which means having the best gear helps, as it does in some of the dungeons.  The prices for said gear are quite high and while you could grind the gold the game throws up all sorts of barriers to stop you making enough, (nerfing drops for farming, trading post being down constantly, etc).  Therefore to aquire this gear in a resonable amount of time, you need to buy gold. Hence that's really how there going to make profits longterm, don't believe the fanbois here, it makes sense really. How else would they keep it alive? 

 

Yes you have a shop but most people are not using / buying from it from a lot of postive feedback and reviews

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 10:53:37 AM#32
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Panther2103
Was really hoping the petitions could do something, oh well hope they can produce another game like this eventually.

It is over as far as NC Soft goes, but it may not be for the game,  if they sell it , which is what the main campaign is aiming for, not for NC Soft to reverse the decisoin, which they knew will not happen.

Not going to happen. They had a lot less to lose from selling Tabula Rasa than they do by selling off the CoH IP, and they didn't even do that much. With CoH, they had already looked and planned for CoH2 and a movie, which shows they were pretty invested in the franchise at one point. What happened recently is anyone's guess, but the overall subs didn't dip very far post F2P conversion. It sounds more like internal politics and less like money, which everyone unfairly assumes is the reason anything ever happens. 

It's more likely NCSoft will sit on the IP forever "just in case" they decide to do something with it. They may never, but if anyone else wants to, they'd have to pay NCSoft fees for the priviledge.

Paragon Studios and NC Soft are still in discussions of what will happen to the game. They have not said they will not sell it yet, but at least they are considering the option.

I've yet to see any information anywhere that says they are in talks and considering anything. The only information I've found is that the studio, Paragon Studios, is being dissolved. Gone entirely. And despite any supposed talks, if they're having any, they've come out and set an actual date the game closes. None of that sounds like they're considering other options. If you're referring to protests and staff of PS trying to convince them otherwise, that's not 'talks', which would suggest negotiating, that's just plees for help. I'd like it to be true as much as the next person though, so if you have source links for any negotiating going on behind the scenes, you should post it in here.

First off here:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296759

[Admin] Alpha Wolf: Sorry guys but I don't have any new update. I know Paragon management is having discussion with ncsoft and investors. Continue get people to sign online petitions, post on game forums, and just continue to make noises so ncsoft cannot ignore players.

 

http://thorsassassin.com/2012/09/28/paragon-community-dinner-and-hope/

There is a movement in the professional gaming world to save the game in some form or fashion but the process is complicated and involves several key elements to succeed. It was encouraging to hear the developers passion for the game. Their sense of pride in our community for our efforts thus far. Our resolve. Speaking with Melissa ‘Warwitch’ Bianco, Matt ‘Positron’ Miller and Brian Clayton gave me a sense of pride as well. They are all as invested in this game or more so than we are and they want it to be saved. Through the night I did get one strong message from all three and that is:

“Keep the positivity going for the SaveCoh campaign. Don’t let ourselves be pulled into aggressive tactics or negativity towards NCSoft, they are listening and we DO have their attention. Keep up the good fight!”

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4839

9/28/12 10:59:07 AM#33
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

[mod edit]  Why would NCSoft close down CoX if it was generating millions of positive income??

After all the effort they have put into the game all those years? Huh!

They bought it from Cryptic and hired all the original staff. They created Paragon studios for them to continue supporting the game.

Then, when the game was going into the black figures (yes the game was dead with low pop on all servers at that time), NCSoft gave them a second chance to convert the game to Free 2 Play!

Since the game went Free 2 Play, it still couldn't hold enough people's interest nor make people willing to spend money to keep the game afloat!

Sure there was population on the Free servers, but if none of them is spending any money, it's not going to keep the game afloat!

There was only ONE single server for the subscribers only (which was also populated), but that is just one server with people paying up each month!

It's not enough to keep an entire studio in operation!

The game has been up and running for more than 8 and half years! That is more than most MMO's these days can hope for to achieve.

I have been subbed to it on and off till just few months ago and even on the subscriber server the population had dwindled and wasn't that high anymore!

I know people can get emotional and irrational when their most favorite game is being shut down.

But this one just had it coming sooner than later. It was inevitable.  It had more than two chances already. There comes a time when enough is enough.

Still no proof it was not making a profit, just your opinion.

And you show me proof that Paragon Studios was making enough profit!

Hard evidence! "REAL" financial reports from Paragon Studios!  Not false information you have been relying on as a blind angry fan!

 

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 11:02:06 AM#34
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

[mod edit]  Why would NCSoft close down CoX if it was generating millions of positive income??

After all the effort they have put into the game all those years? Huh!

They bought it from Cryptic and hired all the original staff. They created Paragon studios for them to continue supporting the game.

Then, when the game was going into the black figures (yes the game was dead with low pop on all servers at that time), NCSoft gave them a second chance to convert the game to Free 2 Play!

Since the game went Free 2 Play, it still couldn't hold enough people's interest nor make people willing to spend money to keep the game afloat!

Sure there was population on the Free servers, but if none of them is spending any money, it's not going to keep the game afloat!

There was only ONE single server for the subscribers only (which was also populated), but that is just one server with people paying up each month!

It's not enough to keep an entire studio in operation!

The game has been up and running for more than 8 and half years! That is more than most MMO's these days can hope for to achieve.

I have been subbed to it on and off till just few months ago and even on the subscriber server the population had dwindled and wasn't that high anymore!

I know people can get emotional and irrational when their most favorite game is being shut down.

But this one just had it coming sooner than later. It was inevitable.  It had more than two chances already. There comes a time when enough is enough.

Still no proof it was not making a profit, just your opinion.

And you show me proof that Paragon Studios was making enough profit!

Hard evidence! "REAL" financial reports from Paragon Studios!  Not false information you have been relying on as a blind angry fan!

 

I am only annoyed because you keep going spilling BS, and undoing any efforts and positivity in trying to save COH.

The proof is in my above posts. Paragon Studios would not encourage the saving of it, if it was a lost cause

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

9/28/12 11:07:02 AM#35
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Panther2103
Was really hoping the petitions could do something, oh well hope they can produce another game like this eventually.

It is over as far as NC Soft goes, but it may not be for the game,  if they sell it , which is what the main campaign is aiming for, not for NC Soft to reverse the decisoin, which they knew will not happen.

Not going to happen. They had a lot less to lose from selling Tabula Rasa than they do by selling off the CoH IP, and they didn't even do that much. With CoH, they had already looked and planned for CoH2 and a movie, which shows they were pretty invested in the franchise at one point. What happened recently is anyone's guess, but the overall subs didn't dip very far post F2P conversion. It sounds more like internal politics and less like money, which everyone unfairly assumes is the reason anything ever happens. 

It's more likely NCSoft will sit on the IP forever "just in case" they decide to do something with it. They may never, but if anyone else wants to, they'd have to pay NCSoft fees for the priviledge.

Paragon Studios and NC Soft are still in discussions of what will happen to the game. They have not said they will not sell it yet, but at least they are considering the option.

I've yet to see any information anywhere that says they are in talks and considering anything. The only information I've found is that the studio, Paragon Studios, is being dissolved. Gone entirely. And despite any supposed talks, if they're having any, they've come out and set an actual date the game closes. None of that sounds like they're considering other options. If you're referring to protests and staff of PS trying to convince them otherwise, that's not 'talks', which would suggest negotiating, that's just plees for help. I'd like it to be true as much as the next person though, so if you have source links for any negotiating going on behind the scenes, you should post it in here.

First off here:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296759

[Admin] Alpha Wolf: Sorry guys but I don't have any new update. I know Paragon management is having discussion with ncsoft and investors. Continue get people to sign online petitions, post on game forums, and just continue to make noises so ncsoft cannot ignore players.

 

http://thorsassassin.com/2012/09/28/paragon-community-dinner-and-hope/

There is a movement in the professional gaming world to save the game in some form or fashion but the process is complicated and involves several key elements to succeed. It was encouraging to hear the developers passion for the game. Their sense of pride in our community for our efforts thus far. Our resolve. Speaking with Melissa ‘Warwitch’ Bianco, Matt ‘Positron’ Miller and Brian Clayton gave me a sense of pride as well. They are all as invested in this game or more so than we are and they want it to be saved. Through the night I did get one strong message from all three and that is:

“Keep the positivity going for the SaveCoh campaign. Don’t let ourselves be pulled into aggressive tactics or negativity towards NCSoft, they are listening and we DO have their attention. Keep up the good fight!”

Thanks for posting that. I knew about the dinner thing but wasn't aware it included portions of decision-makers as well. It's nice that they've let people know the petition is making some impact. There goes the naysayers.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 608

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

9/28/12 11:08:00 AM#36
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

You have no proof of anything your saying either, unless you want to show anything other then some disapointed devs talking on a forum.

I can tell you this, NCSOFT haven't released any sub figures but if we look here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102444902/NCSoft-Q2-2012-Financial-Results we can see that COH accounts for 2% of annual sales over the last year. That's not great for any company.

According to this blog as well: http://ardwulfslair.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/city-of-heroes-gets-the-headsmans-axe/ COH brought in under 1% of total revenue for NCSOFT in Q2. That's a tiny amount and I doubt enough to cover costs.

I get it your disapointed but really just try and remember the fun you had with the game.  It's better that way, then hoping for some miracle or that everyone else is so wrong about this.

 

 

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 11:14:02 AM#37
Originally posted by Omnifish
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

You have no proof of anything your saying either, unless you want to show anything other then some disapointed devs talking on a forum.

I can tell you this, NCSOFT haven't released any sub figures but if we look here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102444902/NCSoft-Q2-2012-Financial-Results we can see that COH accounts for 2% of annual sales over the last year. That's not great for any company.

According to this blog as well: http://ardwulfslair.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/city-of-heroes-gets-the-headsmans-axe/ COH brought in under 1% of total revenue for NCSOFT in Q2. That's a tiny amount and I doubt enough to cover costs.

I get it your disapointed but really just try and remember the fun you had with the game.  It's better that way, then hoping for some miracle or that everyone else is so wrong about this.

 

 

What is so wrong about trying to save the game? You can still remember the good times, trying to save the game will not wipe your memories!

“Keep the positivity going for the SaveCoh campaign. Don’t let ourselves be pulled into aggressive tactics or negativity towards NCSoft, they are listening and we DO have their attention. Keep up the good fight!”

NC soft would not be listening still if the game was not profitable.

  spitfire1064

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/07
Posts: 61

9/28/12 11:17:10 AM#38
Originally posted by Omnifish
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

Are you really that daft and naive?

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

You have no proof of anything your saying either, unless you want to show anything other then some disapointed devs talking on a forum.

I can tell you this, NCSOFT haven't released any sub figures but if we look here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102444902/NCSoft-Q2-2012-Financial-Results we can see that COH accounts for 2% of annual sales over the last year. That's not great for any company.

According to this blog as well: http://ardwulfslair.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/city-of-heroes-gets-the-headsmans-axe/ COH brought in under 1% of total revenue for NCSOFT in Q2. That's a tiny amount and I doubt enough to cover costs.

I get it your disapointed but really just try and remember the fun you had with the game.  It's better that way, then hoping for some miracle or that everyone else is so wrong about this.

 

 

I saw there numbers, my wife actually had found NC Softs annual numbers, so when she gets home i will throw a link on.

But from what i remember there was a profit from COH, it  just was a drop in the bucket compared to all there other games and they want to focus on their other games which have massive profit in asia.

There was also a shift in leadership for NC Soft just days before the announcment, some speculate that this new CEO wanted to shift the focus.

But the point is there was a profit.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17011

9/28/12 11:32:43 AM#39
Originally posted by JeroKane
 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

[mod edit]

uh, before you start insulting people I think you need to realize that companies do shut down divisions/offices that are making a profit. Heck, we had one of our local movie theaters shut down because, though it was making a profit, it wasn't make the same profit as other "more competitive" theaters.

The reason they do this is because the division, office, etc, is not making "enough" profit per whatever projections they have made.

So, for a large corporation, this product could have been maknig money but not enough for them to justify keeping it going when they can easily take their resources and plunge it into something that will make them a greater profit for the same effort.

It might be feasible that CoH could make an acceptable profit for a smaller company. Maybe a smaller company that doesn't have the same overhead a larger corporation has. Because remember, profit isn't just based on how much income a company gets but also things such as them keeping operating costs down.

 

 

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5099

9/28/12 11:36:57 AM#40
Originally posted by Omnifish
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by teotius
Meh people complaining. Yeah alot people liked it but didnt support it. Its like grocery store, It wont last long if people just take stuff for free and not pay.

We were paying, I just renewed a 6 month contract.

STOP  ASSUMING PEOPLE!

YOU paid. What about thousands of other? Doubt so even if they say "Im hard-core fan and i paid just 1k for something". And the facts are already out, no profit = no game.

 

The game was making a profit, otherwise Paragon Studios would not bother with trying to save/sell it. Why would any one sell it if it was not making a profit? You just assume it is being shut down because it was making no profit, well you are WRONG

The importance of saving COH is bigger than the game itself. The game may have been released 8 years but it was only converted to F2P last year, which is no simple thing. For them to shut the game down now, just kills any longevity any F2P/B2P etc type game has.

If City of Heroes shuts down, I am not putting any more time into MMOs, especially free to play ones and Nc Soft ones for certain, as now they can shut down after about a year.

If City of Heroes shut down last year, instead of going F2P, we may have wondered why they didn't turn it F2P, but certainly would not leave doubt in peoples minds of how long a game will last.

Before COH was announced to close, I would say there will be a 30% chance of SWTOR shutting down in 2013, following its change to F2P, but now after COH has shut down, I say SWTOR has a 90% chance of being shut down in 2013. They say the game needs 500K subs to break even, but it does not have that now, so they hope that millions will play but get at least 500K subs. The reason why most quit was that they did not want to pay, and I do not see people paying much after it goes F2P, so now its chances of closure next year are now extremely high.

I have seen plenty of positive posts about GW2, as it is free, and people do not need to spend any money in the store, yet COH needed people to spend in the store.

Even if GW2 has millions of people, if none are spending in the store, then that is still $0. No profit = no game

With sub based games, you know the game is getting money, and you know it will last, which is why WOW will still succeed. It is popular, still has millions of players ALL paying, it is safe and secure and no worries of getting shut down.

 

The game was NOT making a profit, otherwise NCSoft wouldn't have shut it down!

[mod edit]

NCSoft isn't going to just shut down an entire studio that generates income.

The only time they ever did that was with Tabula Rasa, due to the dispute with Richard Garriott.

They have kept CoX running far longer than any expected!  They have given this game more than enough chances to survive!

Hell, they even created an entire new studio for it. They gave it a second chance by making it Free 2 Play!

But there comes a time when enough is enough, and when the game goes into the black figures a second time (even after F2P conversion) .... it's simply time to pull the plug.

Got any proof that it was not making a profit other than your opinion?  If not then quit negativity and move on yourself

There is plenty evidence showing that it was. People have posted quarterly figures in the millions that it was generating, and why would Paragon Studios go to the effort of seeing if they can sell it and encourage us to keep up our efforts to petition etc when it is not making a profit and all a waste of time  and all a lost cause?

You have no proof of anything your saying either, unless you want to show anything other then some disapointed devs talking on a forum.

I can tell you this, NCSOFT haven't released any sub figures but if we look here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/102444902/NCSoft-Q2-2012-Financial-Results we can see that COH accounts for 2% of annual sales over the last year. That's not great for any company.

According to this blog as well: http://ardwulfslair.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/city-of-heroes-gets-the-headsmans-axe/ COH brought in under 1% of total revenue for NCSOFT in Q2. That's a tiny amount and I doubt enough to cover costs.

I get it your disapointed but really just try and remember the fun you had with the game.  It's better that way, then hoping for some miracle or that everyone else is so wrong about this.

 

 

I think its far more likely that the game was not financially viable, than otherwise, given the 'limited' evidence available, i also agree that if the game had been making money, then NCSoft would have been prepared to keep it running. Sometimes, F2P doesnt save a game, its just one of those things.

While i do feel sorry for those who did enjoy the game, nobody can reasonably demand a company to keep a game running, that doesnt generate enough revenue to maintain it, NCSoft has other priorities now, GW2 is probably their main focus, and no doubt any resources freed up from CoH will eventually benefit GW2.

I think the fact that NCSoft is disbanding Paragon is also something that lends more credence to CoH's lack of profitability. Obviously the Paragon team are trying to negotiate, but, if its one sided, its not so much a negotiation, as 'wishful thinking' 

I think though that the sad fact is also that out of all the Superhero MMO's  CoH/CoV was imo, the best of the bunch in terms of gameplay and content, the only real category that the game didnt do too well on, was the graphics,  perhaps if they'd updated the graphics of the game, instead of moving it to F2P, they might have been able to make the game profitable again.

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