With nearly every guild running a vent/teamspeak yada yada I'm not surprised chat is minimal in games. 

Are Mmo players anti-social? No. 

Except for the fact they avoid sunlight and humans for days on end whenever the next new Mmo/xpac comes along. Yep, Mmo Gamers really love socializing.

Originally posted by rankor2

With nearly every guild running a vent/teamspeak yada yada I'm not surprised chat is minimal in games. 

 

Are Mmo players anti-social? No. 

 

Except for the fact they avoid sunlight and humans for days on end whenever the next new Mmo/xpac comes along. Yep, Mmo Gamers really love socializing.

And I haven't been in a guild/clan/corp in the past few years that hasn't had a problem with a large number of their members refusing to log into their voice comms during non-raiding/PVP playing time.

Fact is, voice comms are enjoyed by only a certain percentage of players, and I'd venture to say not even the majority.  Far more people in any MMORPG you can name that are not in voice comms at any given time.

More modern MMORPG's are made in such ways that socializing isn't really needed, as most stuff can be done solo.

I play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes...and sure, you can solo quite a bit of the game....but it also has a healthy dose of content that requires you group to complete. Dungeon crawls are common place...as the dungeons in most cases are huge. During those crawls we all chat and I have made many friends in-game this way...and it's made the length and time the dungeons take to complete  a non-issue...as it's still fun being able to have good converation, make firends, and find long time grouping partners in your journeys.

Yeh, things "were better back in the day" with games like FFXI or UO etc., but they can be the same way now (honestly, it possible).  My personal issue are the trolls in chat.  I have to turn off chat except for guild and friends because it's all rubbish anyway.   It doesn't have to be serious or anything, but holy crap... how many times do you have to read "Why do they call it an XBox 360?" (please dont' feed the trolls) without wanting to punch something?

I'm a very social creature, but I keep it in guild or in raidcall/vent.  I do miss the days when actual coversations could be had.  It just seems like now adays you have to search for or start out with like minded and stick with them in a game and if you see anyone else that is on the level, you just add them to the list and keep rolling.

Anything that puts players together, makes them spend some time out or join in an activity together makes a game more social. The degree of one on one interaction and the length of time you get to communicate determine how social any aspect of game play is.

Not having quest hubs makes for antisocial play. Having dynamic events is good for the social aspect but by removing a hub of any kind you do a lot of damage to the social aspect. So overall a negative effect has occurred.

yes they are.

they dont want you bothering them, interupting them, or getting in their way.

they should be playing skyrim.

the only thing mmo's have to offer really is other people.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Loktofeit
There's an unrealistic expectation among some MMO gamers that others should make the effort to interact with them. Some even go as far as wanting games changed to force others to have to be tethered to them in hopes that it will also force others to interact with them.

Oh come now, I expected you to know better.  Programming in interdependency between players is a common, well accepted practice in most MMORPG's...

 

I never said it wasn't or shouldn't be. The issue I presented is that some people aren't social but want to be part of the social environment, so they want or, worse, expect the game mechanics to force others to interact with them.

Take dating for example. Some people go to clubs, bars and other social circles to meet others. Some go to those 5-minute date musical chairs things to meet others. Two very different types of people. The first type is social and outgoing. The second type wants to be social and doesn't know how to, so they seek outside catalysts to create the desired situation. Where MMOs are different is that others have their social circles and may not be playing to make new friends online. Just because the person isn't talking to you doesn't mean they aren't talking.

Oh man.  Well ok.  Since you brough dating.

People in clubs, bars, etc main let's call it ugly "objective" it to have good time and / or pick-up someone. In order to do this you HAVE TO be social.    You're forced to be social or you won't have fun.  Unless your kind of fun is dancing alone or getting drunk yourself in bar or somewhere in the corner.  Same with making a move on someone. 

You just said perfect example of how people are forced to be social. If they want to have fun with other people. (unless they pay someone to be with them, but I would not consider this having fun with someone)

Payed speed-dating - no idea who use those.  People that put effectiveness in people met / per hour maybe?  Don't know. If anything this is more similar to modern mmorpg's. Solo and effectiveness race to get enogh xp / tokens per hour.

=========================================================\

Second thing - I don't want to force anyone.  I don't want to change anyone's game. I doubt many people advocate that in example GW2 totally change it's game design. 

People are simply advocating to have some dew decent new games that are more socal in their way.  Nothng else. Not because I want to force you. 

I don't want to change majority of mmorpg's. Hell I don't care about 99% of mmorpg's.  I am just non-content because this huge mmorpg market cannot spawn decent game of KIND I like.

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by karmath

Themepark players yes.

Sandbox players no.

Bullshit

The majority of the players in games liek Eve or Dark fall farm solo and in Eves case they solo with multiple accounts.

How many solo players in Eve hold sov in 0.0?

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Loktofeit
There's an unrealistic expectation among some MMO gamers that others should make the effort to interact with them. Some even go as far as wanting games changed to force others to have to be tethered to them in hopes that it will also force others to interact with them.

Oh come now, I expected you to know better.  Programming in interdependency between players is a common, well accepted practice in most MMORPG's...

 

I never said it wasn't or shouldn't be. The issue I presented is that some people aren't social but want to be part of the social environment, so they want or, worse, expect the game mechanics to force others to interact with them.

Take dating for example. Some people go to clubs, bars and other social circles to meet others. Some go to those 5-minute date musical chairs things to meet others. Two very different types of people. The first type is social and outgoing. The second type wants to be social and doesn't know how to, so they seek outside catalysts to create the desired situation. Where MMOs are different is that others have their social circles and may not be playing to make new friends online. Just because the person isn't talking to you doesn't mean they aren't talking.

Oh man.  Well ok.  Since you brough dating.

People in clubs, bars, etc main let's call it ugly "objective" it to have good time and / or pick-up someone. In order to do this you HAVE TO be social.    You're forced to be social or you won't have fun.  Unless your kind of fun is dancing alone or getting drunk yourself in bar or somewhere in the corner.  Same with making a move on someone. 

You just said perfect example of how people are forced to be social. If they want to have fun with other people. (unless they pay someone to be with them, but I would not consider this having fun with someone.

That's an extremely odd view of voluntarily going to a location to accomplish a voluntary social goal through one's own efforts and initiative. 

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

Oh man.  Well ok.  Since you brough dating.

People in clubs, bars, etc main let's call it ugly "objective" it to have good time and / or pick-up someone. In order to do this you HAVE TO be social.    You're forced to be social or you won't have fun.  Unless your kind of fun is dancing alone or getting drunk yourself in bar or somewhere in the corner.  Same with making a move on someone. 

You just said perfect example of how people are forced to be social. If they want to have fun with other people. (unless they pay someone to be with them, but I would not consider this having fun with someone.

That's an extremely odd view of voluntarily going to a location to accomplish a voluntary social goal through one's own efforts and initiative. 

Same as it is extremly odd view of being forced to voluntarily playing a game to accomplish a voluntary game goal through one's own efforts and initiative.

-------------------------

Thing is playing a game with design that anyone see as 'forced' is also totally voluntary.  People say - they are forced to be social in a game because in example there is some kind of "wait time" like travelling to an dungeon on a ship and not being instantly teleported there. (simplistic example for discussion matter).

Thing is this is voluntarily things. You don't have to play a game if you don't like how things are done in this game. Noone is forcing you. 

It took me alot of time to realize that.  I was playing mmorpg's that turned to fast matchmaking instanced gameplay and I was vocal about it. I did not like that focus in many mmorpg's changed to almost solely playing in various kinds of instances using matchmaking systems. 

I also felt that I am FORCED to play those mmorpg's in their new way. Because it was practially impossible to play not using this since almost everyone was using those tools right. I realized that noone force me to do anything. I was forcing myself to still play those games.   I left and I almost don't play any mmorpg's since I cannot find one of decent quality and with design I like at same time.

So if there will be some new game some day that will have so called "forced social mechanics" in your view - you will NOT be forced to play it. Since noone will stand with gun in their hand to force you play it.

----------------------

Games are totally volunarily activities. Exactly same as going out to club and socializing with other people.  You're no more forced in any game that you're in club.

Reposting something I wrote in another thread because it's pretty central to this discussion:

I think a big part of what's happaned with MMO's and also possibly explaining part of the "solofication" trend is the breakdown and minimization of COMMUNITY.

Coming to MMO's from MUDS that point is really driven home to me.

In MUDS community and your interaction with it was REALLY IMPORTANT and the rulesets and designs reinforced that.

Who you were MATTERED. The things you did MATTERED...to other players and to the community as a whole. Your actions had signifigant consequences both to you and to the community as a whole. Bad behavior could have very serious consequences to you. It could cause you to lose a certain kind of unspoken "social currency" that was harder to earn and more precious then gold or gear. At the same time exceptional behavior had rewards far beyond anything that appeared on your character sheet.

The entire game as structured and designed around these assumptions and supporting them. I think alot of this bled into the design and gameplay of the early MMO's, many of which were often labeled as "Graphical MUDS". Developers were familiar with these paradigms of the MUD because many had played in or had working experience with them themselves. Many of the initial playerbase had also migrated from or played MUDS. So much of what existed within them was reflected in these early games. They had a little bit of the "small village" atmosphere that MUDS had. Somewhere along the way this gradualy started to change...until the "small village" had morphed into a large faceless city that lost it's sense of community.

I think that may be part of what happaned with the increasing trend toward socialization. It became less desirable to players because it was less rewarding both tangibly and emotionaly. It didn't matter that YOU were there or what YOU did because those had little consequences beyond the immediate rewards. You were easly interchangable with faceless fighter #557. The same held true for negative behavior, the consequences for it became far less significant so those with an inclination toward it persisted...many because they had never been taught otherwise. The games had lost thier sense of community...so participation in social based activites was less desirable.

Some I think try to recapture a bit of that with Guilds...but even there that's problematic because the game systems don't really reinforce the interdepency and one can easly slip from Guild to Guild.

I think if a game really wants to appeal to those of us who like and miss that "small village" feel, it's going to have to drasticaly change it's character. It will need to create actual villages and towns, pockets of civilization in a vast wilderness where players can spend a significant portion of thier careers...not just breeze through in 45 minutes before they move onto the next quest hub...and it's designs are going to have to be based around the idea of interdependance. Players who are on thier own should still have some things that they can do solo, as it was in the MUDS, because there will always be times when you can't or don't want (for some reason) to go out with others...but it shouldn't be the core game-play of the game.

It would be a risky proposition...because it's a large departure of what most of todays MMO players and designers are used to seeing. However, I think it has some inherent appeal because human beings ARE inherently social animals and they like to do social things. Maybe it'll even draw in a different crowd then typical plays MMO's....there are plenty of folks that have interest in online social venues (facebook, linked-in, etc).

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

Oh man.  Well ok.  Since you brough dating.

People in clubs, bars, etc main let's call it ugly "objective" it to have good time and / or pick-up someone. In order to do this you HAVE TO be social.    You're forced to be social or you won't have fun.  Unless your kind of fun is dancing alone or getting drunk yourself in bar or somewhere in the corner.  Same with making a move on someone. 

You just said perfect example of how people are forced to be social. If they want to have fun with other people. (unless they pay someone to be with them, but I would not consider this having fun with someone.

That's an extremely odd view of voluntarily going to a location to accomplish a voluntary social goal through one's own efforts and initiative. 

Same as it is extremly odd view of being forced to voluntarily playing a game to accomplish a voluntary game goal through one's own efforts and initiative.

-------------------------

Thing is playing a game with design that anyone see as 'forced' is also totally voluntary.  People say - they are forced to be social in a game because in example there is some kind of "wait time" like travelling to an dungeon on a ship and not being instantly teleported there. (simplistic example for discussion matter).

Thing is this is voluntarily things. You don't have to play a game if you don't like how things are done in this game. Noone is forcing you. 

It took me alot of time to realize that.  I was playing mmorpg's that turned to fast matchmaking instanced gameplay and I was vocal about it. I did not like that focus in many mmorpg's changed to almost solely playing in various kinds of instances using matchmaking systems. 

I also felt that I am FORCED to play those mmorpg's in their new way. Because it was practially impossible to play not using this since almost everyone was using those tools right. I realized that noone force me to do anything. I was forcing myself to still play those games.   I left and I almost don't play any mmorpg's since I cannot find one of decent quality and with design I like at same time.

 

So if there will be some new game some day that will have so called "forced social mechanics" in your view - you will NOT be forced to play it. Since noone will stand with gun in their hand to force you play it.

----------------------

Games are totally volunarily activities. Exactly same as going out to club and socializing with other people.  You're no more forced in any game that you're in club.

So you agree with me that people who want mechanics designed to make others interact with them to compensate for their inability to initiate interaction are off their rocker. Thank you.

Originally posted by Loktofeit
There's an unrealistic expectation among some MMO gamers that others should make the effort to interact with them. Some even go as far as wanting games changed to force others to have to be tethered to them in hopes that it will also force others to interact with them.

Baseball is an inherently team based game. You really can't play baseball without being part of a team. The rules are designed to enforce interdependancy between the players and require teamwork if you want to achieve anything in play.

Golf is an inherenitly individual based game. You generaly play as an individual. You can play around others or choose to interact with others as you play, but the rules do nothing to support or encourage Team based play. You are essentialy playing as an individual whether you choose to do so or not.

Baseball and Golf offer entirely different play experiences.

Some people like to play baseball...

Some people like to play golf..

Some people like to play both...

What is the problem with that?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

Oh man.  Well ok.  Since you brough dating.

People in clubs, bars, etc main let's call it ugly "objective" it to have good time and / or pick-up someone. In order to do this you HAVE TO be social.    You're forced to be social or you won't have fun.  Unless your kind of fun is dancing alone or getting drunk yourself in bar or somewhere in the corner.  Same with making a move on someone. 

You just said perfect example of how people are forced to be social. If they want to have fun with other people. (unless they pay someone to be with them, but I would not consider this having fun with someone.

That's an extremely odd view of voluntarily going to a location to accomplish a voluntary social goal through one's own efforts and initiative. 

Same as it is extremly odd view of being forced to voluntarily playing a game to accomplish a voluntary game goal through one's own efforts and initiative.

-------------------------

Thing is playing a game with design that anyone see as 'forced' is also totally voluntary.  People say - they are forced to be social in a game because in example there is some kind of "wait time" like travelling to an dungeon on a ship and not being instantly teleported there. (simplistic example for discussion matter).

Thing is this is voluntarily things. You don't have to play a game if you don't like how things are done in this game. Noone is forcing you. 

It took me alot of time to realize that.  I was playing mmorpg's that turned to fast matchmaking instanced gameplay and I was vocal about it. I did not like that focus in many mmorpg's changed to almost solely playing in various kinds of instances using matchmaking systems. 

I also felt that I am FORCED to play those mmorpg's in their new way. Because it was practially impossible to play not using this since almost everyone was using those tools right. I realized that noone force me to do anything. I was forcing myself to still play those games.   I left and I almost don't play any mmorpg's since I cannot find one of decent quality and with design I like at same time.

 

So if there will be some new game some day that will have so called "forced social mechanics" in your view - you will NOT be forced to play it. Since noone will stand with gun in their hand to force you play it.

----------------------

Games are totally volunarily activities. Exactly same as going out to club and socializing with other people.  You're no more forced in any game that you're in club.

So you agree with me that people who want mechanics designed to make others interact with them to compensate for their inability to initiate interaction are off their rocker. Thank you.

Are you purposefully being inflammitory?? People simply want game mechanics that focus on the types of activities they enjoy. Baseball and Football are team sports who's mechanics require interaction and interdependancy between the players. Are people "off thier rocker" for wanting to play Baseball or Football rather then Golf?  Because that's what you seem to be contentding here.