Originally posted by Rhoklaw
A monthly fee to use Windows 8? Can't wait to see the outcome of that.

Not necessarily Windows 8 but somewhere down the line. I think their official line is that they are 'exploring' the concept of a subscription base operating system when/if they make it cloud based.

Originally posted by Badaboom
Does it really affect windows or will it just hurt them in the end?

From what I understand, Microsoft wants to sell other developers' software on the Microsoft app store.  I think this means Microsoft would make a percentage off each sale.

This is probably the main reason most developers are upset about Windows 8.  The Microsoft app store would pretty much eliminate the need for Steam.  And it means Blizzard would have to share their profit with Microsoft.

It's a pretty good deal for Microsoft, but it hurts the developers.

Originally posted by Rhoklaw
A monthly fee to use Windows 8? Can't wait to see the outcome of that.

It's amazing how people can act like cattle. Xbox user's will pay a monthly fee to play games online and put up with all that advertising to boot.  I wouldnt touch one with a 10ft pole because of this.

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Originally posted by Thebigthrill
I also read that this would all but eliminate small indie developers.

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Nope. metro is actually quite good for small indy devs imo.

Originally posted by Thebigthrill
I also read that this would all but eliminate small indie developers.

Microsoft would be nothing without the software industry making all the nice little things that we like to use. I cant see them being too happy having to give MS a cut. If I was one of them, I would be quite tempted to make sure that my softare didnt work with windows 8.

Imagine if they all did ;)

edit: they also tried to pull this crap with the Microsoft flight and it sure didnt work out well, They killed a legendary franchise for themselves.

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Originally posted by Purutzil
Good news, if this goes in this trend we might see a new rise in Linux and we will be having to pay $100 less for our new computers with having free operating systems that are more efficient then Windows or Macs. If some of the Linux developers are able to smooth out the experience for less tech savy people, we might see windows slide from its throne if they keep going down a slippery slope.

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At the risk of going off topic, you know what the problem with Linux is?

They cant make up their god damn minds. There is no uniform framework for anything.

That And applications have to be built with a simple 90's mindset so the system as a whole is always 'rock solid'.

Lets hope that all of that leads to developers releasing for games on Linux, preferably without DX and with OpenGL instead. You know, OpenGL doesn't need any special drivers or APIs, as GFX-cards can interpret OpenGL natively.

Back in the days the first shooters like DOOM1 where done in OpenGL aswell, and there was no troubles porting them to Linux.

So yeah, pretty please can we have all games for Linux and in OpenGL for the future :)

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Originally posted by Yalexy
Lets hope that all of that leads to developers releasing for games on Linux, preferably without DX and with OpenGL instead. You know, OpenGL doesn't need any special drivers or APIs, as GFX-cards can interpret OpenGL natively.

Back in the days the first shooters like DOOM1 where done in OpenGL aswell, and there was no troubles porting them to Linux.

So yeah, pretty please can we have all games for Linux and in OpenGL for the future :)

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There is no directx for linux as its a Microsoft technology,
Opengl doesn't need anything hey? Yeah that not true.

One more issue I forgot to mention about the certification process is that besides Microsoft asking a cut of every program / game / 'app' sold through the store, the certification process includes fees.

Each time you patch a game and change code, or someone makes a mod and wants to release it, it has to be done through the store, and each time a code change happens, the developer gets another fee from Microsoft they have to pay. Currently Notch can just change the code of his game and release it, not so in the Windows 8 store, every code change has to be approved by Microsoft and has to be paid for. (it's around $500 per code change, not a lot for a big developer, but a lot for an indie, which is why Notch mentions indie developers in his complaint a few times)

The Linux angle of the discussion is interesting, Vavle has vowed to support Linux through Steam. While I didn't think Linux was ready a few years ago, I do think Linux has come a long way the last years, dependency on the terminal and drivers have improved substantially. I am currently writing this from Linux Mint, which for me is just as friendly as Windows, but I do still use Windows because of the games of course. I think Linux will benefit from both Windows 8 and Valve's support, if it's enough to convince the massses to take a jump into the unknown I don't know.

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Originally posted by CalmOceans
One more issue I forgot to mention about the certification process is that besides Microsoft asking a cut of every program / game / 'app' sold through the store, the certification process includes fees.

Each time you patch a game and change code, or someone makes a mod and wants to release it, it has to be done through the store, and each time a code change happens, the developer gets another fee from Microsoft they have to pay. Currently Notch can just change the code of his game and release it, not so in the Windows 8 store, every code change has to be approved by Microsoft and has to be paid for. (it's around $500 per code change, not a lot for a big developer, but a lot for an indie, which is why Notch mentions indie developers in his complaint a few times)

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Do you have a link to that for personal interest?

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Originally posted by Nitth

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Originally posted by Yalexy
Lets hope that all of that leads to developers releasing for games on Linux, preferably without DX and with OpenGL instead. You know, OpenGL doesn't need any special drivers or APIs, as GFX-cards can interpret OpenGL natively.

Back in the days the first shooters like DOOM1 where done in OpenGL aswell, and there was no troubles porting them to Linux.

So yeah, pretty please can we have all games for Linux and in OpenGL for the future :)

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There is no directx for linux as its a Microsoft technology,
Opengl doesn't need anything hey? Yeah that not true.

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I know that there's no DX for Linux, that's the reason why developers should develop their games based on OpenGL, which is open source and integrated in any GFX-card driver allready.

And before you say anything... Yes OpenGL has basically all the features DX is offering.

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Originally posted by Yalexy

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Originally posted by Nitth

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Originally posted by Yalexy
Lets hope that all of that leads to developers releasing for games on Linux, preferably without DX and with OpenGL instead. You know, OpenGL doesn't need any special drivers or APIs, as GFX-cards can interpret OpenGL natively.

Back in the days the first shooters like DOOM1 where done in OpenGL aswell, and there was no troubles porting them to Linux.

So yeah, pretty please can we have all games for Linux and in OpenGL for the future :)

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There is no directx for linux as its a Microsoft technology,
Opengl doesn't need anything hey? Yeah that not true.

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I know that there's no DX for Linux, that's the reason why developers should develop their games based on OpenGL, which is open source and integrated in any GFX-card driver allready.

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Your forgetting that OpenGL is just a graphics api. It does not handle anything else.

Directx handles input, output, and a multitude of other necessary functions.

To get your game or application working on linux you will need several different frameworks and api's to handle all facets of your program. Developing for linux and opengl is time consuming and a hassle thats why devs moved to directx years ago.

Originally posted by Nitth

 

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Originally posted by CalmOceans
One more issue I forgot to mention about the certification process is that besides Microsoft asking a cut of every program / game / 'app' sold through the store, the certification process includes fees.

 

Each time you patch a game and change code, or someone makes a mod and wants to release it, it has to be done through the store, and each time a code change happens, the developer gets another fee from Microsoft they have to pay. Currently Notch can just change the code of his game and release it, not so in the Windows 8 store, every code change has to be approved by Microsoft and has to be paid for. (it's around $500 per code change, not a lot for a big developer, but a lot for an indie, which is why Notch mentions indie developers in his complaint a few times)

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Do you have a link to that for personal interest?

Not a direct link from the top of my head. The whole process is done through the Windows software certification kit, available through an SDK, the cossts of publishing the app and the costs of updating the app have never officially been detailed by Microsoft afaik, and I believe only select developers have access to the details atm. What I do know is that the 30% number is correct unless you go over $25000 iirc, meaning if you make more than $25000 on your "app", some of the costs are lowered, but by how much is again not detailed anywhere afaik.

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Originally posted by CalmOceans
Here is the certification procedure, but the SDK I believe has many more details: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/jj135001.aspx

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Tyvm :)