Originally posted by RocSek

Originally posted by Admin

Originally posted by Worstluck
I realize you guys make money from ads, however, I would not be clicking on said ads regardless so I block them for safety and just to make the page readable.  Now will I permanently have a big red bar accross the top of the page?

It does not matter if you click the ads.  We sell ads based on impressions, not clicks/results.  So even if you don't click the ads you hurt our entire site by running a blocker.  Running adblock on a site that supports itself with advertisements is no different than downloading pirated movies, music or video games.  You are in a sense stealing our content that we work hard to create and pay to an entire team to create.

This is flat out wrong. If you want to "Stop people from stealing your content" then make all the infomation password protected, and charge people to access it. But to say we are stealing your content because we choose to block ads is ridiculous. And who ever typed this behind the anonymous "Admin" account should be fired.

While I completely disagree with the comment posted by the Admin, I can almost see there position as it is hard for them to change there business model to keep up with the change in consumer habits. It really comes down to a much broader morality debate that is being had with the advent of the internet. It is impossible for authors (using this in a loose sense) to charge for content on the internet as a free to pay model. A drop in revenue to a site like this means they have to change there tactics to draw consumers to support them.

This is no different than how the music industry was reluctant to change there models from forcing users to buy compact  discs to downloading invidual songs. The authors can try to fight the consumer but like anything, when you attack someone they may end up resenting you. The model they use must change and they are doing the first step in it by asking people to turn off there ad blockers. Eventually they may require users to do this to access their content. Who knows, one day perhaps we will have preloaded cards that take transfer a few cents to the pages we access in order to keep them running. Sort of like a f2p model where each website we go to is a cash shop item and we purchase access rights.

Either way attacking those who effectively pay there salaries is not really a good idea, but I think that they are smart enough to be dimplomatic about it in the end.

Originally posted by RocSek

Originally posted by Admin

Originally posted by Worstluck
I realize you guys make money from ads, however, I would not be clicking on said ads regardless so I block them for safety and just to make the page readable.  Now will I permanently have a big red bar accross the top of the page?

It does not matter if you click the ads.  We sell ads based on impressions, not clicks/results.  So even if you don't click the ads you hurt our entire site by running a blocker.  Running adblock on a site that supports itself with advertisements is no different than downloading pirated movies, music or video games.  You are in a sense stealing our content that we work hard to create and pay to an entire team to create.

This is flat out wrong. If you want to "Stop people from stealing your content" then make all the infomation password protected, and charge people to access it. But to say we are stealing your content because we choose to block ads is ridiculous. And who ever typed this behind the anonymous "Admin" account should be fired.

The Admin account is not anonymous.  I am Craig McGregor the President/CEO of the company and the co-owner and founder of the site.  

The trend in AdBlock is concerning for me, not just on our site here, but on the Internet as a whole.  It is a growing problem and I feel it will eventually lead to the end of the "free Internet" that we all know and love.  If sites cannot stay afloat from advertising sales they have few options left: a) start charging for access to content b) start doing really unethical tihngs like Advertorial content c) syndicate into large networks with pay access like Cable TV "packages".  Personally I like the advertising model both as a site operator and as a user of hundreds of free websites.

I don't even pay attention to the ads.  I was using an ad blocker recently because the ads themselves weren't displaying correctly.  Other than that, the ads have never bothered me to the point where it made me want to rage quit the website.

In a systems analysis class I took several years ago, MMORPG.com was used as an example of how to design a good interface (I showed MMORPG.com to my instructor because I was curious what he thought of it, and he later showed it to the class).  Regardless of the ads, it's a very well-built website.  It's attractive, good colors, easy to use, great content.  I approve of MMORPG.com, and the crazy amount of mostly-relevant ads :)

Originally posted by gigat

I don't even pay attention to the ads.  I was using an ad blocker recently because the ads themselves weren't displaying correctly.  Other than that, the ads have never bothered me to the point where it made me want to rage quit the website.

 

In a systems analysis class I took several years ago, MMORPG.com was used as an example of how to design a good interface (I showed MMORPG.com to my instructor because I was curious what he thought of it, and he later showed it to the class).  Regardless of the ads, it's a very well-built website.  It's attractive, good colors, easy to use, great content.  I approve of MMORPG.com, and the crazy amount of mostly-relevant ads :)

Wow! That's really awesome. Thanks for the kind words!

I'm only here for the forums.  I don't really care about the articles, especially considering they rarely hold MMO developers/publishers to task.  It's more of an MMO news aggregator and hype machine.

I do disable the ad blocker here but it's mainly because the website is unreadable otherwise.

Originally posted by Admin

Originally posted by RocSek

Originally posted by Admin

Originally posted by Worstluck
I realize you guys make money from ads, however, I would not be clicking on said ads regardless so I block them for safety and just to make the page readable.  Now will I permanently have a big red bar accross the top of the page?

It does not matter if you click the ads.  We sell ads based on impressions, not clicks/results.  So even if you don't click the ads you hurt our entire site by running a blocker.  Running adblock on a site that supports itself with advertisements is no different than downloading pirated movies, music or video games.  You are in a sense stealing our content that we work hard to create and pay to an entire team to create.

This is flat out wrong. If you want to "Stop people from stealing your content" then make all the infomation password protected, and charge people to access it. But to say we are stealing your content because we choose to block ads is ridiculous. And who ever typed this behind the anonymous "Admin" account should be fired.

The Admin account is not anonymous.  I am Craig McGregor the President/CEO of the company and the co-owner and founder of the site.  

I've always tended to just ignore ads.  Here, TV, Radio, magazines.  Unless it's something I actually care about, I ignore them.  I'll give that the flashy ones are harder to ignore.  But I still do.  

Regardless, all of our content here is FREE.  The ads make sure we can support our families, pay our rent, and buy our food.  We're not asking you to click them.  Just, if you believe in the work we do, please don't block them.  

Also, Craig is "Admin". He's the President and CEO of the site.  He started it more than ten years ago. It quickly became his full-time job.  You can read more about him and the rest of our staff here - http://www.mmorpg.com/bio.cfm

That's literally all of us, minus the incredible core freelancers we hire for reviews and other content by the article or video.  We're not Gamespot, or IGN, or even Curse.  We don't have investor money feeding us.  It's all done in-house, and we all work remotely across the country and even the globe (for some writers).  

Anyway, I'm rambling.   Just wanted to give you guys some feedback from a worker's point of view.  I also work full-time at a hospital. Obviously, one job definitely does a lot more "good work" for society, but I love this one far more. It's a dream job. I'd do it for free.  But then I'd probably have to sell my house and I'm not sure my wife would appreciate that.  :)

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I'm only here for the forums.  I don't really care about the articles, especially considering they rarely hold MMO developers/publishers to task.  It's more of an MMO news aggregator and hype machine.

 

I do disable the ad blocker here but it's mainly because the website is unreadable otherwise.

Same.

And for largely the same reasons: the writers on this site hype up every game, and largely ignore the shortcomings most of these games, especially those released last 5 years.

It is not an accident, that if you go and look at the official review scores on this site, with one exception that I saw, the official review score is/was higher than the player review score for "major" mmo titles (F2P clone crap, who cares.). BY an approximate average of .6-.7 or so. That is not a small bump.

Almost every single one.

That is not an accident, its policy.

With such an abject lack of objectivity, the reviews are utterly worthless to me at this site.

And the "features" and "previews" and "inside looks" and all the rest of that stuff, are the hyped up crap, that I mentioned before. So likewise, worthless.

The forums are the only thing of use here.

The ads here constrain when and where I log into the site (half-naked anime, etc.). I have never, nor will I ever click on any of them.

The comments from the "admin" would be insulting if I thought about them, but I rather see them as another advertisement.

I'm sorry the past business model isn't keeping up with the current trends.

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by gigat

I don't even pay attention to the ads.  I was using an ad blocker recently because the ads themselves weren't displaying correctly.  Other than that, the ads have never bothered me to the point where it made me want to rage quit the website.

 

In a systems analysis class I took several years ago, MMORPG.com was used as an example of how to design a good interface (I showed MMORPG.com to my instructor because I was curious what he thought of it, and he later showed it to the class).  Regardless of the ads, it's a very well-built website.  It's attractive, good colors, easy to use, great content.  I approve of MMORPG.com, and the crazy amount of mostly-relevant ads :)

Wow! That's really awesome. Thanks for the kind words!

You guys do a great job of making the content accessible.  There's always room for improvement though.  The basic layout and functionallity is great, but the site could use some new artwork.  Specifically the main navigation bar could use an update.  Something like RTSguru.com, but with the MMORPG.com colors.

Oh and the mobile version of MMORPG.com needs an update.  At the very least you gotta put the recent forum post tracker on there ;)

Originally posted by gigat

 

You guys do a great job of making the content accessible.  There's always room for improvement though.  The basic layout and functionallity is great, but the site could use some new artwork.  Specifically the main navigation bar could use an update.  Something like RTSguru.com, but with the MMORPG.com colors.

 

Oh and the mobile version of MMORPG.com needs an update.  At the very least you gotta put the recent forum post tracker on there ;)

I think you'll really like the new site Evan is building... yes, just one guy.  :)

Originally posted by gigat

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by gigat

I don't even pay attention to the ads.  I was using an ad blocker recently because the ads themselves weren't displaying correctly.  Other than that, the ads have never bothered me to the point where it made me want to rage quit the website.

 

In a systems analysis class I took several years ago, MMORPG.com was used as an example of how to design a good interface (I showed MMORPG.com to my instructor because I was curious what he thought of it, and he later showed it to the class).  Regardless of the ads, it's a very well-built website.  It's attractive, good colors, easy to use, great content.  I approve of MMORPG.com, and the crazy amount of mostly-relevant ads :)

Wow! That's really awesome. Thanks for the kind words!

You guys do a great job of making the content accessible.  There's always room for improvement though.  The basic layout and functionallity is great, but the site could use some new artwork.  Specifically the main navigation bar could use an update.  Something like RTSguru.com, but with the MMORPG.com colors.

 

Oh and the mobile version of MMORPG.com needs an update.  At the very least you gotta put the recent forum post tracker on there ;)

I think our art wizard Evan is largely done with a new look/feel for MMORPG.com.  It should "moderize" things a bit without changing the current flow of the site.

I don't mind the ads on this site, they are relevant to the content, some have pretty cool looking pics on them, they kinda look the part with he site, and I have actually found a couple of fun games to play by clicking on one or two of them.. 

At least they aren't depressing me by telling me how inadequate I am in bed with out buying their special little blue pill..

As long as they stay relevant to the content and site, they are fine wit me... and I am sure the mmorpg.com staff screens the adds first to make sure they don't have anything malicious in them.. 

Originally posted by Draxonfly

 

I don't mind the ads on this site, they are relevant to the content, some have pretty cool looking pics on them, they kinda look the part with he site, and I have actually found a couple of fun games to play by clicking on one or two of them.. 

At least they aren't depressing me by telling me how inadequate I am in bed with out buying their special little blue pill..

As long as they stay relevant to the content and site, they are fine wit me... and I am sure the mmorpg.com staff screens the adds first to make sure they don't have anything malicious in them.. 

Thank you Draxonfly.  Since I started the site nearly a decade ago I always insisted that advertising be ultra relevant.  This means video games, game hardware, guides, guild hosting, etc.  I always looked back to the fact that in the days before the Internet boom I would buy gaming magazines almost exclusively to browse through the big glossy ads - it was the only way to really know what was coming out next or what might be waiting on the shelf at the local game shop.

I hope to keep this policy forever.  However, if we reach a point where we cannot support the site on this model we might have to consider other options or join larger ad networks that don't share these philosophies.

While I dispise the constant strategic trolling, I will support the site and have whitelisted it with adblocker. This is really the only place I come to for MMO news and such.

I'll have to disagree with the comment from the admin about the potential downward spiral that could be caused by adblocking software. There are always up-and-comers and website hobbiests who would pop-up and give something away for free that another site may "one day" charge for.

I been playing online games since it was a pay service on AOL for 1.10$ an hour with games like Air Warriors 2 and warcraft orcs and humans. The internet has changed quite a bit since then and it will continue to change. How is anybodys guess.

**Edit** First time I'm seeing that MoP video ad since unblocking and its pretty cool, lol. Still aint buying that game though. tehehe

The ads themselves are not a problem at all actually, and I would gladly de-block them, if it would be only about the ads being displayed like an ad in the undergroud-station or wherever.

The reason I block everything is the related things like trackers and apis, and especially the security-issues with flash and gifs etc.

SO! If you can guarantee 100% safety for the ads that are displayed on your site and hold responsible, if any ad leads to isues, then I'll whitelist you.

This site alone, i.e. the reply-page, has 5 javascripts running (blocked in my case) and the front-page sports 7 javascripts not controlled by you. Just saying.

Originally posted by Admin

Originally posted by RocSek

Originally posted by Admin

Originally posted by Worstluck
I realize you guys make money from ads, however, I would not be clicking on said ads regardless so I block them for safety and just to make the page readable.  Now will I permanently have a big red bar accross the top of the page?

It does not matter if you click the ads.  We sell ads based on impressions, not clicks/results.  So even if you don't click the ads you hurt our entire site by running a blocker.  Running adblock on a site that supports itself with advertisements is no different than downloading pirated movies, music or video games.  You are in a sense stealing our content that we work hard to create and pay to an entire team to create.

This is flat out wrong. If you want to "Stop people from stealing your content" then make all the infomation password protected, and charge people to access it. But to say we are stealing your content because we choose to block ads is ridiculous. And who ever typed this behind the anonymous "Admin" account should be fired.

The Admin account is not anonymous.  I am Craig McGregor the President/CEO of the company and the co-owner and founder of the site.  

The trend in AdBlock is concerning for me, not just on our site here, but on the Internet as a whole.  It is a growing problem and I feel it will eventually lead to the end of the "free Internet" that we all know and love.  If sites cannot stay afloat from advertising sales they have few options left: a) start charging for access to content b) start doing really unethical tihngs like Advertorial content c) syndicate into large networks with pay access like Cable TV "packages".  Personally I like the advertising model both as a site operator and as a user of hundreds of free websites.

I understand your concern, but on the other half of the coin the advertising agencies and many websites have not been playing nice either.

It's not just the malware potential, although I've never experienced that here.  The last malware payload that tried to get dropped on one of my machines was a few years ago at incgamers.  The real annoying this is the "in your face" aspect of the ads.  Everything from flyout mouseover ads, to balloning flash, to distracting flash, or just plain obnoxious ads have pushed more and more people to try and filter them out.  In my opinion the ads and the sites that have not reigned them in properly has pretty much made the bed they're lying in.  This is the very same behavior that causes industries to end up being regulated - that is they don't regulate themselves.

I will try whitelisting the site and see how it goes.  I want you to be successful and I enjoy reading the news and articles and blathering on the forums.

Originally posted by Deathenger

I'll have to disagree with the comment from the admin about the potential downward spiral that could be caused by adblocking software. There are always up-and-comers and website hobbiests who would pop-up and give something away for free that another site may "one day" charge for.

 

This is how I started - as a hobbiest that started a MMO site.  Next thing I knew the sole web server I was running the site was blowing up and my hosting bills and server were staggering.  Users want more content, more features, and more development - your forums get so big that you cannot depend on volunteer moderators - you need full time ones.  Before you know it you have to quit your full time job and convince the wife that you are not sending your family off a cliff by running a video game site for a living.  If people want a site that can capacitate 3,000,000+ users per month it will not be ran cheaply and it will need to be supported by some kind of revenue stream.  We have over 10 people working full time to make this site possible...this is their job and their livelihood.

I think we run this site as efficiently as possible.  We have no corporate office, no bloated executive staff, no sales people - just passionate gamers working from their homes all over the world.  We cannot get any leaner without sacrificing quality or stability.