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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: If Guild Wars 2 Changed Everything, What’s Next?

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151 posts found
  thedrakon

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 215

9/27/12 11:39:17 AM#61

It's been a while since I've been thinking about this. It's shouldn't be too hard to do.  I mean, to make some kind of "time" into a game, you need to make the "area/zone" change on what player are doing. Game are just not build toward this goal.

They should make some "default map" and each of them have some "layer" to progress and disgress in time. city could grow in time with player activity or go into ghost town, and in each pattern come all kind of even. A big city getting bigger would spawn new merchant, new district and probably some kind of underground challenge (theive and other), while if that same city go deserted by player and the economy drop out, those big building would go empty and could resume into a ghost town, poverty and everything attached to that subject. All this are evolving arround the player action and seem to be easy to do with parameter that gauge player action.

You can make this kind of pattern for a lot of thing, a forest filled with wolve, if player come and hunt them down and keep killing them as they "respawn" if respawn they are, some counter get up and then no more wolve spawn and probably let other creature come like maybe more deer spawn and if the player let the deer live, wolve might come back coming from another place and soo forth. In that same forest, if the tree get cut down and on an higher rate then they grow, some NPC could asked to stopped, like a Druid or fairy atk. And you can keep going like this.

A montain, you can discover a mine, set it up and get the close settlement to grow with all the new trade and unlock some new job, (Escort the new ore from the mine to the settlement). Then if the mine is unexploited, it can become the lair of some kind of monster.

I've only put some, but all these seem fairly easy to think. It might get to a challenge in prog, but with parameter for each even,  (parameter could be zone type, player action A, B C ... Killing/time ... material used ... and soo on). Each can occur an new even at some time/tick. A city won't grow from village to metropolis, but could have some building add in time.

In the end, it might be a lot of work, but you doesn't need A BIG map to have player having fun, since each area will evolve and let player experience new stuff, you could easily stay in the same area all the time and never do the same thing.

Seem doable, but that kind of game is way far from the "theme park" and is unpredictable, it's might be more a niche than theme park and, since it's a niche, the $ that could be made is more risky

that's mostly my thought

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2637

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

9/27/12 11:40:52 AM#62
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by grummz

I've heard the MMORPG audience is a tough crowd. I think you guys have every right to be angry that MMOs haven't changed much in the past 10 years. Glad to see people still want more, as it really makes me want to figure out what the "more" is as a game maker.

- Mark Kern

and cars have changed very little since the days when the first model T rolled off the line

how about games ? baseball, football ? basketball ? uniforms and some small rule changes but a home run is still a home run. Chess rules been the same for several hundred years.

on a MMO the designers still are forced to work within the limits of the technology, you have a pixilated character tha is limited to movement and intereaction with mobiles.You can't smell taste ot do much withthem except destroy them or move them from point A to point B. Not sure what peoiple expect.

you can make that mobile represent a pirate, a space trooper, a rat, or a zopmbie but at the end of the day you are going to have to kill ten , twelve or seven of them to advance your character. That is just the nature of the MMO, don't like it then find a new hobby or come up with some ground breaking idea.

Sam Rayburn once said " Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a carpenter to build one.

Are any carpenters here? or just a bunch of jackasses

 

Great point, where the hell is my flying car?  I was promised one back in the 60's and yet here in 2012 I still don't see one anywhere. (same with my jetpack btw)

Because that's really what we're asking for, stop evolving the model T, do something radically different, some entirely new system of transportation like teleporters.

Same with MMORPG's, let's see some really big innovation/change here and knock my socks off. (think New Cap City in Caprica)

As for being a carpenter, leave that to the people who are paid to build these worlds, up to them to figure it out, stop giving me excuses why they can't do it.

Excuse me, my household robot just served my lunch. 

 

+1 to this.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

9/27/12 11:50:05 AM#63
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by grummz

I've heard the MMORPG audience is a tough crowd. I think you guys have every right to be angry that MMOs haven't changed much in the past 10 years. Glad to see people still want more, as it really makes me want to figure out what the "more" is as a game maker.

- Mark Kern

and cars have changed very little since the days when the first model T rolled off the line

how about games ? baseball, football ? basketball ? uniforms and some small rule changes but a home run is still a home run. Chess rules been the same for several hundred years.

on a MMO the designers still are forced to work within the limits of the technology, you have a pixilated character tha is limited to movement and intereaction with mobiles.You can't smell taste ot do much withthem except destroy them or move them from point A to point B. Not sure what peoiple expect.

you can make that mobile represent a pirate, a space trooper, a rat, or a zopmbie but at the end of the day you are going to have to kill ten , twelve or seven of them to advance your character. That is just the nature of the MMO, don't like it then find a new hobby or come up with some ground breaking idea.

Sam Rayburn once said " Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a carpenter to build one.

Are any carpenters here? or just a bunch of jackasses

 

Great point, where the hell is my flying car?  I was promised one back in the 60's and yet here in 2012 I still don't see one anywhere. (same with my jetpack btw)

Because that's really what we're asking for, stop evolving the model T, do something radically different, some entirely new system of transportation like teleporters.

Same with MMORPG's, let's see some really big innovation/change here and knock my socks off. (think New Cap City in Caprica)

As for being a carpenter, leave that to the people who are paid to build these worlds, up to them to figure it out, stop giving me excuses why they can't do it.

Excuse me, my household robot just served my lunch. 

 

+1 to this.

The problem with this example is that to "evolve" the car into "something else", and by reference the MMORPG, is that key elements are missing to do so. First we need a half-decent safe anti-gravity solution to make "flying cars".

By direct reference, we need better engines that allow for more in-depth mechanics to evolve the genre. However, all anyone keeps doing is re-inventing the MMO engine by simply "remaking" their own version of the basic MMO.

 

This, I believe, is the REAL issue. They need to create engines that are built for a specific mindset rather than building an engine for a specific GAME.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2802

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/27/12 12:00:52 PM#64
Chaaaange! YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN!!!

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4453

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

9/27/12 12:10:45 PM#65


Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by grummz I've heard the MMORPG audience is a tough crowd. I think you guys have every right to be angry that MMOs haven't changed much in the past 10 years. Glad to see people still want more, as it really makes me want to figure out what the "more" is as a game maker. - Mark Kern
And I do not envy you in your task Sir, as trying to find out what we as players want from an MMO must be quite like the parable of the blind men describing an elephant.

Problem is, giving players what they say they want is what caused this mess.
Never trust players to tell you what they want. We have no clue what we want.
Developers need to do research and find out what players are willing to do for a longer term.

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4766

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

9/27/12 12:24:39 PM#66

Whats next? I dunno. What genres are left to be dumped into an mmo? Maybe we can copy ddr and "reinvent" the genre for the upteenth time.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  leumasx7

Tipster

Joined: 11/16/06
Posts: 221

~i lke cheese and pie~

9/27/12 12:26:05 PM#67

So I was a little confused about the dynamic event system before too, cuz it seemed same event and all a lot in some areas. But later on I did learn they are dynamic, theres NPCs in other places who will run to villages for help, and yell around to get people. Some of the events after ending if you hang around run to a new area and start another event (like a story). Can be up to 3-4 parts from what i've seen, I admit the dynamic system needs to polishing, and more stuff done with it though to truly feel dynamic.

Also reading, I did feel same way with hearts. Hearts/mini quest hub, pretty much same thing, but this does incourage more exploring and you don't have to do heart task all the time.

 

  Dakirn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/04
Posts: 358

9/27/12 12:31:18 PM#68
Mark, I think you're spot on with this article.. and I agree with other people who post that it's going to take a company who will take a risk.  Since the tools don't exist they need to build them and their own engine.  Well, that sounds a lot like Citadel of Sorcery to me :)
  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/27/12 12:37:07 PM#69
Originally posted by Jackdog

Sam Rayburn once said " Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a carpenter to build one.

Are any carpenters here? or just a bunch of jackasses

 

And every common sense consumer says, "If I pay to have a barn built, the carpenter better do a damn good job or I want my money back."

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5156

9/27/12 12:39:49 PM#70
It did not change everything. And if it had, asking whats next before MMORPG.com has even done an official review is a bit much! :)
  SneakyRussian

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 56

9/27/12 12:52:01 PM#71
Originally posted by leumasx7

So I was a little confused about the dynamic event system before too, cuz it seemed same event and all a lot in some areas. But later on I did learn they are dynamic, theres NPCs in other places who will run to villages for help, and yell around to get people. Some of the events after ending if you hang around run to a new area and start another event (like a story). Can be up to 3-4 parts from what i've seen, I admit the dynamic system needs to polishing, and more stuff done with it though to truly feel dynamic.

Also reading, I did feel same way with hearts. Hearts/mini quest hub, pretty much same thing, but this does incourage more exploring and you don't have to do heart task all the time.

 

What you just explained is called a "Scripted Event". There was not a single part of that explanation that was "Dynamic".

Those NPCs ALWAYS go out during major events to each town to ask people for help. That is scripted, not Dynamic.

  lilHeala

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 528

9/27/12 12:56:06 PM#72
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by RefMinor
It didn't change everything, so the premise of your question is incorrect.

Definetly this.

 

1) GW2 got rid of quest hubs: Yes, it also pretty much got rid of quests too. So.... I'll take quest hubs over that. The game is at least 98% kill/gather/destroy tasks. You know, those exact things people complain about in other games but for some reason when ANet does it, it is revolutionary.

You're looking too much purely at the objectives. I think it's great that in GW2 you are just exploring any part of the world and then suddenly you get involved in an event regardless of where in the world you are or if you wanted to quest or not. Those other games you know which town they're going to send you next only by looking at the map and more often than not if you try to do all quests in a zone they turn grey on you.

2) GW2 is B2P: Yes, they successfully tricked players into paying $60 for a F2P game. Yet again, because it was ANet, it is revolutionary and will be the future of gaming. So the future is we'll all pay $60 for a F2P when currently you get F2P games for free to start with... good improvement.

 There's still a very important difference with F2P, in F2P ALL income is generated from the item store so you typically have to pay to unlock basic content like being able to access a zone or do any quests there, not just convenience stuff like extra bank storage or character slots.

3) GW2 auto grouped everyone: Yup, and they killed all socialization by doing so. Good to know the future of gaming is an MMO where no one ever talks to each other. Sounds fun.

 I don't see how auto grouping kills socialization, other themeparks are made solo'able up until the end game content and the only reason for grouping up until then is to not stand in a queue to kill a boss mob. Not because the challenge is too big, in almost every single themepark it's nigh impossible to die even with crap gear unless you do a very stupid pull.

4) GW2 did combos!!: Oh wait, other games already did those.

That's true but nobody said they created only new stuff that hadn't been done before, it's what the total package overall offers and how much of it is differently perceived. Purely looking at features or underlying systems / mechanics of course everything has been done before and nothing new can ever be invented again.

5) GW2 did Dynamic Events!!: Oh wait, other games already did those.

Not as the main content of the game, the few that did have something simmilar offered it as a sideshow and were usually the exact same stuff with only different mobs (rifts in Rift).

6) GW2 did WvW PvP!!: Not any different from RvR that has been done before only this time there is absolutely no point to it at all so it is boring as hell. Not a good improvement.

Hasn't been done by many and not for a long time. What point you're looking for? I bet it's shinies and not fun. Of course whatever does it for you but still I think it's strange that folks need pixel reward incentives in order to do anything.

 

 

 

  Atavax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 11

9/27/12 12:58:55 PM#73

While shifting new content to being based on time instead of location seems like a good way to make content less predictable, it also takes a lot of control away from the customer. Normally the players decides what content they want and when, they control the pacing. They know what to expect when they go to a specific location. It seems like basing the content on time, takes a lot of control away from the character. It makes sense in D&D where its a small group of friends and you know what everyone likes, but on a massive scale with hundreds of thousands of players, seems like a time based tool where you take the control away from the players is going to alienate a lot of them. 

  Randayn

Elite Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 660

9/27/12 12:59:29 PM#74

Question is, did it change anything?  The answer is no.  It used different types of filters and facades, but still the same gameplay, if not more grindy now than ever.

The best and most innovative thing GW2 brought around was the idea that people don't share crafting nodes in the open world.  That was genius....nothing else was invented though....all re-hashed with a different book cover.

  laserit

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1376

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

9/27/12 1:01:00 PM#75

Why does everything have to be scripted or ai controlled in an MMO? Would it be cool if a percentage of a sub went into paying for a live team, Dungeon master's if you will. Give them a host of controllable mobs and bosses and let them reek havoc on player's. Have a book full of encounter's from the small and personal to massive boss attacks on a city ( a dragon picking up player's and swallowing them or tossing them across town would be an absolute riot)

So many things you could do and it would never be the same twice

 

 

Zenimax kicked my dog

  User Deleted
9/27/12 1:02:17 PM#76

This genre needs to die and born again and start from the basics and core elements which are now missing.

 

Next step will be the search of those core elements,these GW2 and SWTOR´s etc helps in that because its so easy to notice what is missing and why MMORPG´s are dying.

 

Like basic  P&P  session,DM doesnt tell to players what they have to do next ,it goes the way that player does whatever he wants.

But in todays MMO´s ,these things doesnt ask anything ,these scripts and stories and limited character customisations and actions forces players to play like game commands  them.

 

By some weird powers from other dimension Blizzard might have given birth accidentally to something good with their phasing system,now imagine that in real time,when player does something which makes changes in the world then it changes for eveybody in the server,something unpredictable happens,like in P&P games happens all the time.

 

 

  Cyno

Novice Member

Joined: 12/30/09
Posts: 1

9/27/12 1:19:22 PM#77

I would like to see NPC's moving out of their little environment that was set-up for them.  It would be exciting if we were able to encounter something that we were not expecting to see in that area.

 

Maybe a scout from a particular group of NPC's was patrolling or maybe an army of NPC's was trying to invade another's area.

 

We could just happen to run across them as they are making their way to their destination and perhaps be allowed to join up with them or be attacked by them, etc.

 
  Atavax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 11

9/27/12 1:21:54 PM#78
Personally, i think the same thing holding back mmo development is what is holding back the entire industry, which i think is the huge costs of development. Huge costs forcing developers to sell millions of copies to break even, forcing them to appeal to the widest audience possible, and the mmo genre is one of the biggest offenders. I think the most important innovations will be improvements in the tools used to design and make games. The most exciting games coming out seem to often be small indie games, not the multi milion dollar games. 
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4453

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

9/27/12 1:48:26 PM#79


Originally posted by ForumPvP
This genre needs to die and born again and start from the basics and core elements which are now missing.

 

Next step will be the search of those core elements,these GW2 and SWTOR´s etc helps in that because its so easy to notice what is missing and why MMORPG´s are dying.

 

Like basic  P&P  session,DM doesnt tell to players what they have to do next ,it goes the way that player does whatever he wants.

But in todays MMO´s ,these things doesnt ask anything ,these scripts and stories and limited character customisations and actions forces players to play like game commands  them.

 

By some weird powers from other dimension Blizzard might have given birth accidentally to something good with their phasing system,now imagine that in real time,when player does something which makes changes in the world then it changes for eveybody in the server,something unpredictable happens,like in P&P games happens all the time.

 

 


I agree, it needs to die. But as long as there are profits to be made from Cash Shops, Disposable MMOs are going to be all there is to play. Of course, it's possible the pendulum could swing the other way and developers would realize that Cash Shops don't make tons of money if people only play for a month.

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  starmoonsun

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/11
Posts: 6

9/27/12 1:50:49 PM#80

Hi Mark,

Have been following you since the first article, each one impresses me even more.

It seems the new era of MMO,or of the entire online games, is about to  begin !

Now, the question is: Who is the one to open the gate of this new era?

GW 2 or Firefall ? Or others?

 
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