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News & Features Discussion  » [Interview] Darkfall: Unholy Wars: Reshaping Darkfall's Sandbox

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162 posts found
  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

9/26/12 1:52:40 PM#61

Having never played DF, I have to wonder what the Ganker/Griefer factor will be?  Some of the things I heard about the origional Darkfall in that regard kept me from ever giving it a try.

I actualy like Open World PvP but I prefer factional based PvP where you don't have to be concerned that EVERY player you meet is a closet sociopath just waiting till your back is turned to stab you.

The thing I like about factional PvP is that you have a built in set of Allies that have an enlightened self-interest to work with you against a common enemy.

 

The problem with FFA PvP, especialy for new players, is that it's really more like PvV (Player vs Victem). The engagement is so dispropotionaly stacked against the new player that they essentialy have ZERO chance of avoiding defeat. It actualy PREVENTS them from learning to play the game rather then teaches them to do so, and prevents them from finding some way to become a part of the game community.

It's a little bit like spawn camping in a FPS. If the player gets blown up before being able to take a step repeatedly...then the only thing they are learning is "DON'T Spawn".  If it's the only spawn point and it happens PERSISTANTLY over the course of multiple days all the new player is really being taught is "DON'T PLAY THIS GAME."

 

 

 

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

9/26/12 2:02:48 PM#62

I wish you would have asked how they would handle the launch distribution of the game, as in how will they be dealing with charging of it.

I'm aware that they said they wouldn't be charging existing owners of DF, but that was when they were just developing an expansion; not an entirely different game.

I'd really like to know if they plan to give UW to people who already purchased DF or if we'll be required to purchase this game as well.

 

What concerns me most is that the game is supposed to launch in two months, and the thing they keep concentrating most on is that it's a "new" game because of things like dynamic lighting.  Even when asked about how the gameplay changed between the two games they respond with dynamic lighting.  I'm really confused how visual upgrades have anything at all to do with gameplay. 

I'm having a bit of deja vu here.  They used to go on about 3d sound, and how sound will be a big part of the original DF, now with UW I'm seeing Tasos going about Dynamic lighting and how much they worked on sound in the game. 

You would think that two months before the launch they would be talkinga bout more then visual, sound, and UI upgrades; especially when this is supposed to be a new game. 

I have a feeling everyone will be required to pay for this new game, when they're really not doing anything that other MMO's will give you free as an xpac.  CCP comes to mind when I think of a sandbox MMO that releases xpacs that include a lot of graphical overhauls, as well as entirely new gameplay, and they've never pitched an expansion as a new game or charged anyone for an xpac. 

 

I'm also not fooled by your "a lot of people here know very little about DF" comment Bill.  I remember very clearly what you guys said for the reason why you had so much coverage on the original DF.  :) 

Controversy drives traffic. 

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

9/26/12 2:11:17 PM#63
Originally posted by goflish
Originally posted by odinsrath
is the combat still gonna be like what i see on youtube from the old DF? people runing around randomly swinging in circles like an old "benny hill show" ..if so count me out..way out

they are swinging like that because they are not good melee players and don't know how to time their swings.

 Your statement is untrue.  Tasos himself even said that they hoped to have addressed this issue with melee mechanics with UW.  He said in the video that they had resolved the sprinting in circles and swinging wildly as the way melee combat is resolved.

There is absolutely no reason to continue defending this when the developers own actions and statements clearly indicate that it was poorly done and so addressed in the new game. 

  Flex1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 413

“Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot.”The Hausa of Nigeria

9/26/12 2:38:41 PM#64

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.


  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

9/26/12 2:41:26 PM#65
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

my worries too, make me think if this game is a sandbox  or a excuse for a FPS PVP arena.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

9/26/12 2:44:35 PM#66
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

 Even better would be for the developers, two months prior to it's release, to talk about something other than graphics and UI. 

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/26/12 2:46:03 PM#67
Originally posted by 123443211234
Darkfall is the BEST and most THRILLING game I have ever played.  DF UW will be absolutely amazing.  If you want to be on the edge of your seat with the adrenaline pumping then DF is for you!!

 Well based on the dismal performance of DF... I'm going to guess DF UW will probably not be for many people.

  User Deleted
9/26/12 2:49:40 PM#68
Either way definitely lookin forward to this! Bring it on!
  Flex1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 413

“Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot.”The Hausa of Nigeria

9/26/12 2:51:16 PM#69
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

my worries too, make me think if this game is a sandbox  or a excuse for a FPS PVP arena.

 

Exactly. Right now all I see is a Guild centered player vs player exclusive game. That is not sandbox, that is pure team pvp. A "sandbox" game needs both to be called that, player versus enviroment and player versus player. If a player wants to be an explorer and find secret places and fight mythical beasts then he should be able to do so, if another player wants to be a bandit trying to rob that explorer he should be able to do so too BUT the explorer doesn't exist here.


  Realbigdeal

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1652

9/26/12 2:55:10 PM#70
Ask broly's father to do the QA next time.

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

9/26/12 2:58:26 PM#71
Originally posted by Flex1
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

my worries too, make me think if this game is a sandbox  or a excuse for a FPS PVP arena.

 

Exactly. Right now all I see is a Guild centered player vs player exclusive game. That is not sandbox, that is pure team pvp. A "sandbox" game needs both to be called that, player versus enviroment and player versus player. If a player wants to be an explorer and find secret places and fight mythical beasts then he should be able to do so, if another player wants to be a bandit trying to rob that explorer he should be able to do so too BUT the explorer doesn't exist here.

 I would agree.  I even made a thread when the original game launched about it not being a true sandbox because of pretty much this.

Tasos said that they made UW with people who were hesitant to try the original DF in mind, yet they have have to say if they even bothered to address the PK system they have in place currently.  The PK system that was easily exploitable, and nonconsequential. 

There was so much ganking in the game because the PK system didn't adiquetely discourage people from killing other players.  And having people constantly running in front of you while you're fighting a mob off in the hopes that you'll hit them twice and turn grey so they can kill you without penalty was beyond annoying. 

  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

9/26/12 3:02:59 PM#72
Originally posted by Tamanous

I still hope to hear word about mob AI and the pve element to the game. If that is fleshed out along side the pvp system the game will take off. If mobs are nothing more than a grind tool to level in order to do nothing else later but pvp the game will still be a barren wasteland and nothing more than a massive battleground disguised as an mmo.

 

The pve element to an mmo is critical. It's creates a living world and creates cause for war. Mobs should be a resource worth fighting over just like land and harvesting points. It of course interests those who think an mmo is more than just ganking people 24/7. The first Darkfall was just slightly more exciting than pong when fighting npc's.

 

is this opposite day?

DF has the best PVE by far of any MMO i've tried (almost all of them), and its one of its greatest attributes.  and it IS all those things you said it should be.

its all the other MMOs that need to catch up to Darkfall with their PVE mechanics.

and most of them ARE finally moving in that action direction after DF beat them by 3 years.

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

9/26/12 3:12:40 PM#73
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

 Even better would be for the developers, two months prior to it's release, to talk about something other than graphics and UI. 

 

i'd agree on the graphics part.

 

but the UI was probably THE #1 dealbreaker for most people with Darkfall.  i had a number of personal friends that said the gameplay and world itself was great but they just refused to get used to the quirks and all the needless complications/clunkiness of the UI.  and i couldn't blame them, even tho i personally found it worth getting used to.

 

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/26/12 3:16:12 PM#74
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Tamanous

I still hope to hear word about mob AI and the pve element to the game. If that is fleshed out along side the pvp system the game will take off. If mobs are nothing more than a grind tool to level in order to do nothing else later but pvp the game will still be a barren wasteland and nothing more than a massive battleground disguised as an mmo.

 

The pve element to an mmo is critical. It's creates a living world and creates cause for war. Mobs should be a resource worth fighting over just like land and harvesting points. It of course interests those who think an mmo is more than just ganking people 24/7. The first Darkfall was just slightly more exciting than pong when fighting npc's.

 

is this opposite day?

DF has the best PVE by far of any MMO i've tried (almost all of them), and its one of its greatest attributes.  and it IS all those things you said it should be.

its all the other MMOs that need to catch up to Darkfall with their PVE mechanics.

and most of them ARE finally moving in that action direction after DF beat them by 3 years.

 

 What  the heck are you smoking?  DF pve was garbage.

  Bruise187

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 357

AC2..Greatest game ever to be closed. They did it dirty.

9/26/12 3:17:20 PM#75
I just want  a skill cap in tha game, I dont like that you can max out all the skills. I know its hard to do but still., I want myself and others to have to make a choice on maxing out one thing and not getting another skill type.

How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

I'm not your friend.

I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

9/26/12 3:21:35 PM#76
Originally posted by Flex1
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

my worries too, make me think if this game is a sandbox  or a excuse for a FPS PVP arena.

 

Exactly. Right now all I see is a Guild centered player vs player exclusive game. That is not sandbox, that is pure team pvp. A "sandbox" game needs both to be called that, player versus enviroment and player versus player. If a player wants to be an explorer and find secret places and fight mythical beasts then he should be able to do so, if another player wants to be a bandit trying to rob that explorer he should be able to do so too BUT the explorer doesn't exist here.

 

i've subbed the game for 4 or 5 months (spread out over 3 years), and exploring its vast and extremely immersive world has been probably about %70 of my reason for being in the game.  i spend more than half my time LONE WOLF exploring the world (and PVE'ing/questing).  and i've STILL explored only maybe %33 of it. 

and now that the grind has been reduced by a factor of 20x, you have the means and skills/stats to do it pretty safely as long as you keep watching your back.

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/26/12 3:24:13 PM#77
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Flex1
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

my worries too, make me think if this game is a sandbox  or a excuse for a FPS PVP arena.

 

Exactly. Right now all I see is a Guild centered player vs player exclusive game. That is not sandbox, that is pure team pvp. A "sandbox" game needs both to be called that, player versus enviroment and player versus player. If a player wants to be an explorer and find secret places and fight mythical beasts then he should be able to do so, if another player wants to be a bandit trying to rob that explorer he should be able to do so too BUT the explorer doesn't exist here.

 

i've subbed the game for 4 or 5 months (spread out over 3 years), and exploring its vast and extremely immersive world has been probably about %70 of my reason for being in the game.  i spend more than half my time LONE WOLF exploring the world (and PVE'ing/questing).  and i've STILL explored only maybe %33 of it. 

and now that the grind has been reduced by a factor of 20x, you have the means and skills/stats to do it pretty safely as long as you keep watching your back.

 

 Found the world mostly barren.

  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
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9/26/12 3:24:20 PM#78
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Tamanous

I still hope to hear word about mob AI and the pve element to the game. If that is fleshed out along side the pvp system the game will take off. If mobs are nothing more than a grind tool to level in order to do nothing else later but pvp the game will still be a barren wasteland and nothing more than a massive battleground disguised as an mmo.

 

The pve element to an mmo is critical. It's creates a living world and creates cause for war. Mobs should be a resource worth fighting over just like land and harvesting points. It of course interests those who think an mmo is more than just ganking people 24/7. The first Darkfall was just slightly more exciting than pong when fighting npc's.

 

is this opposite day?

DF has the best PVE by far of any MMO i've tried (almost all of them), and its one of its greatest attributes.  and it IS all those things you said it should be.

its all the other MMOs that need to catch up to Darkfall with their PVE mechanics.

and most of them ARE finally moving in that action direction after DF beat them by 3 years.

 

 What  the heck are you smoking?  DF pve was garbage.

 

its garbage if you're a garbage gamer.  

let me guess, you find traditional MMO combat interesting and think it involves skill?

 

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1378

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

9/26/12 3:26:18 PM#79
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Flex1
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

my worries too, make me think if this game is a sandbox  or a excuse for a FPS PVP arena.

 

Exactly. Right now all I see is a Guild centered player vs player exclusive game. That is not sandbox, that is pure team pvp. A "sandbox" game needs both to be called that, player versus enviroment and player versus player. If a player wants to be an explorer and find secret places and fight mythical beasts then he should be able to do so, if another player wants to be a bandit trying to rob that explorer he should be able to do so too BUT the explorer doesn't exist here.

 

i've subbed the game for 4 or 5 months (spread out over 3 years), and exploring its vast and extremely immersive world has been probably about %70 of my reason for being in the game.  i spend more than half my time LONE WOLF exploring the world (and PVE'ing/questing).  and i've STILL explored only maybe %33 of it. 

and now that the grind has been reduced by a factor of 20x, you have the means and skills/stats to do it pretty safely as long as you keep watching your back.

 

 Found the world mostly barren.

 

wow, guy that has no proper concept of combat, also has no proper concept of a lot of things.  impressive.

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

9/26/12 3:29:17 PM#80
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Flex1

I would want more info on the sandbox part of the game and not news on how more awesome the pvp part of the game will be.

 

This game is advertized as a sandbox yet all the comments I see are that pve sucks majorly.

 Even better would be for the developers, two months prior to it's release, to talk about something other than graphics and UI. 

 

i'd agree on the graphics part.

 

but the UI was probably THE #1 dealbreaker for most people with Darkfall.  i had a number of personal friends that said the gameplay and world itself was great but they just refused to get used to the quirks and all the needless complications/clunkiness of the UI.  and i couldn't blame them, even tho i personally found it worth getting used to.

 

 I was in the minority.  I didn't think the UI was very good by any measure, but it never actually bothered me.  It did bother me that a lot of people were using stuff like autoHK to do things in the UI at inhuman speeds, like looting. 

Concerning your previous post.  I'm not really sure what you mean by DF being 3yrs ahead of every other game as far as PvE went.  It was literally the same kind of PvE that Lineage 2 had minus interesting dungeons and quests. 

The game is actually very much like L2, except that guilds have much less impact on the surrounding world when they owned a castle. 

Especially when you consider that they're changing dungeons and adding more quests and lore to the world, according to DF.  If the PvE was years ahead of every other game, they wouldn't be changing, and people wouldn't have been complaining that it's just griding on mobs to raise stats so you can PvP.  It's not like guilds were fighting each other to kill the dragon in the middle of the map on a regular basis, and a lot of people were complaining that many of the harder mobs in the game weren't worth killing at all. 

Not to mention the level of mob exploiting in the game that I'd never seen in any other MMO. 

The AI was actually pretty good, but the PvE as a whole was still just grinding the same mob in the same area for incredibly long periods of time to raise stats.  It's a little hard to be years ahead of other games when that's how old MMO's worked.  MMO's have been evolving away from that for a reason. 

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