It bothers me that such things are possible in an MMO.

Now, making alt classes IS the content which is a complete joke. Bring back the longer leveling.

I always read about the old games that took a really long time to level and how it was much better then. 

Was there more content in those older games or where you just grinding the same things over and over ?

Originally posted by Yalexy

EDIT: Actually I'm still waiting for that MMO, where there's no leveling at all.

It's called Call of Duty, you should check it out some time. 

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by rungard

i think what bothers people is that the same guy who just spent 100 hours straight playing a game to get to max level is now complaining that he is bored and the game sux.

Yep. Nail on head.

"I rushed to finish the game in a week and now that I've finished the game 'cause I rushed I am bored because I have nothing left to do AND I want to share my opinion with you because I feel I am special because I played more than you!"

But, but.... I'm hardcore!

there was an interview w Brad 6 years ago about playstyles and gamers that play "hardcore"

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/59800

 The first to speak on this was Brad. He took a few moments to put his thoughts together before talking about his personal experience. He mentioned that he tended to dislike the connotations associated with the term "hardcore" gamer. He and Jeff were both adamant that this was actually an unfair term to many that fit the description just based on the time and effort put in.

The negative connotations to this term bring to mind a player that is blinded to anything but their own desires and needs from the game content. They will power level through things at the speed of light neither looking right nor left to see what else or who else might be around. They take what they need without care to any that may be holding it and they are the ones that rush to the endgame and then complain that the game stinks because they have already "won". These are the folks that spend more time playing than most people put in at work in a given week.

Certainly, there are great players who are lucky to have the time and the ability to play countless hours who do not fit that negative connotation. They take time to quest, to talk to their guild mates or group mates, to enjoy the content without making a nuisance of themselves. It is this player that Brad and Jeff seemed to want to remove from the dishonor of the former example.

Originally posted by SQTO

I always read about the old games that took a really long time to level and how it was much better then. 

Was there more content in those older games or where you just grinding the same things over and over ?

 

Fights took much longer, lots of downtime between fights, having to kill more mobs, travelling between places took more time. Areas were bigger, mobs were more spread out, and you actually had to decide where to go instead of having to remove your brain like some modern mmorpg does.

Originally posted by fenistil

No it does not bother me that others reach endgame so fast.

It bothers me that game is made in a way that game is about max level activities and that it is reachable in matter of days.

Seriously if game is about running dungeons and pvp at max level, then what for levelling is even for? 

If game is about more or less completing another "maps" and never being in them again (unless on alt) then it is just a meaningless chore and I don't know why it is ever in game?  Levelling is not even a game - you just either follow an arrow or obnoxious amount of markers and pop-ups and complete insane amount of fast 10-20 min "quests".  Seriously it is parody of playing a game.

Also sometimes, when I'm really enjoying a game, I wish I could play more (sad but true). I do feel a bit annoyed that I seem to have so little free time compared to some people. It feel as if almost everyone playing MMOs can easily find about 50/60 hours in a week to keep playing. Usually by the time I'm mid level it's already deserted, if I actually reach end game then everyone has already left and moved on (at least with recent games). 

Originally posted by Sicae

Originally posted by SQTO

I always read about the old games that took a really long time to level and how it was much better then. 

Was there more content in those older games or where you just grinding the same things over and over ?

 

Fights took much longer, lots of downtime between fights, having to kill more mobs, travelling between places took more time. Areas were bigger, mobs were more spread out, and you actually had to decide where to go instead of having to remove your brain like some modern mmorpg does.

This and EQ was even more extreame.

If you wanted to get to a certain destination then you paid a player who played one of the porting classes to take you...ie wizard or druid.That still happens in lotro,sometimes it was quicker to ask a hunter to port you instead of  a horse ride.

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Originally posted by Nevulus

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Originally posted by Yalexy EDIT: Actually I'm still waiting for that MMO, where there's no leveling at all.

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It's called Call of Duty, you should check it out some time. 

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CoD is a shooter, not a MMO /facepalm

When saying I want a MMO without leveling, then think about a current MMO, but you create your character and choose from a set of skills and start playing, with no further accumulation of talents or increasing player-stats (e.g. no increase of stats like health, intelligece, strength or whatever).
The only progression would come with knowledge about gamemechanics and customizable items, whereas there should only be very little difference between the starter-items and the so called epics, let's say some 25% maximum.
And by customizable I mean customization like found in TSW, where you add stats to your core-items to match your setup.

Think about a MMO where there's character-creation and -progression like in Shadowrun (the pen and paper RPG).

Originally posted by Yalexy

 

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Originally posted by sirphobos
I do miss when reaching max level in an MMO took time and having a max level character was rare.

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I don't miss this at all, as this is the most boring part of a MMO actually.

A MMO stands and falls with it's endgame content.

It's hard to agree or disagree with that.

If an mmo is "about" end game content then that makes sense. But I suspect there is a contingent of people who believe mmo's shouldn't have end game content. Just "content".

Personally I love leveling. I love creating a character and making it more powerful and honing its skills. But if the whole purpose is to lead me to some ridiculous end game then it's not worh it.

It's exceptionally artifical. Player plays "their way" to then reach cap and do instances or battleground pvp so they can get better gear so they can start over.

As opposed to players have challenges that effect the game world and their level/gear helps them to achieve their goals.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

 

This and EQ was even more extreame,If you wanted to get to a certain destination then you paid a player who played one of the porting classes to take you...ie wizard or druid.That still happens in lotro,sometimes it was quicker to ask a hunter to port you instead of  a horse ride.

...and the next non-kin player to ask for a ride to Rivendell without AT LEAST covering the cost of my travel rations is gonna be the last one I help.

But on topic... in the case of a game like DCUO which is pathetically content lite, yes, it would bother me.

But if there's at least 80 hours of "main playthrough" in a game with a number of other things to do as well, including a solid crafting system, then no.  That doesn't bother me.

Aside from DCUO, I've yet to see an MMO where you can come close to completing the content in a couple days.

Now, should I choose to scrape away the coyness surrounding the question and understand it's a thinly veiled criticism of GW2 and the fact that some folks manage to craft much of their way to 80, I say, I absolutely do not give a crap due to the way the game is designed.

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Originally posted by CalmOceans
Hey,
Does it bother anyone that people reach "endgame" so fast in MMO nowadays.

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It bothers me when they then take to the message boards and complain about being bored. Well... DUH! You blew through the game! What do you expect? I really do question some people's intelligence at times like those. Especially when they skip over half of the content offered by the game.

I don't care if they get there within the first hour. My problem is with them and the developers who think that those players must be catered to. They got there first not because they played the game but because they wanted to beat the game and other players to the end.

They didn't care about the content in the game. Only in finishing the game. These people are not game players. They are game beaters.

I don't care what these game beaters do. I care about what the developers do in response.

Maybe some people enjoy endgame.  Endgame is where the game start for me. 

I have a few thousands playing hours in wow, atlantica online, diablo 3.  And the only way I have that many playing hours is because of the endgame.  Not because of the pre endgame.

It doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the min/max metagame exploit game mechanics overly competitive PvP crowd acts once they reach "PvP endgame" (finding and abusing the most overpowered builds, winning gold in tournaments due to the fact their opponents don't take it as seriously, etc.).

I love competition. I love PvP. I am great at PvP and rarely find someone better than me, and it's very uncommon to find someone even equal in any game I play due to my experience in competitive gaming (any genre). I am not whining or complaining...it's something else that bothers me, but I don't know what exactly. Maybe it's the fact I am usually "the best" alone, so I cannot compete no matter how good I am because I don't have a guild? Perhaps I just can't play as much even when I have endless free time because I want to do other things besides compete in PvP? Idk.

End game PvE players who act like reaching it ASAP is a competition does bother me.

"Pro" PvP players who spend all their time scoring thousands of hours of time in the game within a week for the sole reason of getting a better advantage and more experience than others and claiming their "player skill" (not time learning the game mechanics) makes them the best...or the arrogance of higher tier competitive players vs. newbies, er whatever...the PvP version of the PvE end-gamer rushers...those bother me far, far more.

Of course, that makes sense doesn't it? They actually ruin my game by zerging me with their guild in what is inevitably a 1 vs X (1 being me, usually the only good player on my team, and X being the entire guild on the enemy team). Although having that guild on MY team makes it so boring I literally log off out of boredom. I play games to compete...not to get facerolled by a zerg in a one-sided game, and most certainly NOT to faceroll other players without any sort of challenge.

Perhaps that is why I never play competitively in arena tournaments in MMORPG's. When you're facerolling the enemy (excluding those few matches where you actually get a challenge because it's a serious tournament which happens on a single weekend for a few matches the entire month) it just isn't fun. I don't play competitively to win, I play competitively for fun.

Props to the RTS genre for always having spectacular 1v1 - 5v5 matches of *sometimes* (but far more often than MMORPG'S) equally skilled opponents vying in an extremely challenging (and thus ridiculously fun) match.

Sometimes I wonder if I don't enjoy competitive play in most video games (FPS and MMO mostly) because I am so good I rarely find a challenge, and when I do it's typically a faceroll challenge (by an aimbotter or unbalanced, broken game mechanics). Like in Champions Online shortly after release, anyone with Ego Blades would faceroll you due to how broken the OPness of it was. I quit because of that. Or in FPS games when I get bored because no matter how spectacular my score is- my team is so bad it makes me frustrated. (I'm talking matches where I'm 10:1 and everyone else on my team is 1:3 or worse, and we lose bc of that. Or the GW2 matches which end in 100:500 and I'm the only one with points).

I dont have these frustrations or annoyance in RTS genre because I'm always 1v1, making the fights fair for me and thus happy. 2v2, or 3v3 with family/friends and thus I'm okay with losing because I know the player doesn't have as much experience with the game as me and we tried our best, or 5v5 with strangers but it's extremely fun to do awesome tactics like paradrop troops in their base and omgwtbbq their resources and do great things for the team in what would be an impossible tactic in a smaller game.

Originally posted by GetzMango
Make leveling too slow people call it a grind, make it too quick and people are bored. There is no way to satisfy the content locusts. For them "winning" is reaching max level at all costs. That's how everyone knows you're PRO.

Agree I do not want a game that is a grind.  Agree I do not want to get to top level and find nothing to do.  

I used to hate the speeders because I thought they were all buying gold or using a bot.  My cousin leveled fast by making guild buddies who were powerful and just because that was his playing style.  He said he did not mean to.  Then much later someone accuses me of leveling to fast and I thought I was slow.  I realize games just got so predictable that I know what to do without barely looking at the screen.  I'm not using gold or botting.  I'm not a great player.  I don't like to speed.  I've just been there, done that, seen it all and it's predictable so I seem faster than those who just signed on to the mmo world.