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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » See-ya trinity....see-ya grouping...

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183 posts found
  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

9/25/12 3:34:27 PM#141
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Theres plenty of incentive to doing it.

1. Faster leveling.

2. Easier to do DEs.

3. Share items you pick up for other classes that you can't use and vice versa.

4. Meet people.

Incentives not to do it.

1. .... Nope. Cant really think of any.

1-3 aren't real reasons, because just being in the same area as someone is enough for those.

 

4 offers no tangible benefit to people who don't value meeting others.

 

aside from listed above content scales and becomes harder(which to me is more fun) and its more fun to do content in groups utilizing cross class combos

Are you talking about just standing next to someone, or actually grouping? I think you might be confusing the subject.

 

[mod edit]

this

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

9/25/12 3:35:01 PM#142
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Theres plenty of incentive to doing it.

1. Faster leveling.

2. Easier to do DEs.

3. Share items you pick up for other classes that you can't use and vice versa.

4. Meet people.

Incentives not to do it.

1. .... Nope. Cant really think of any.

1-3 aren't real reasons, because just being in the same area as someone is enough for those.

 

4 offers no tangible benefit to people who don't value meeting others.

 

aside from listed above content scales and becomes harder(which to me is more fun) and its more fun to do content in groups utilizing cross class combos

Are you talking about just standing next to someone, or actually grouping? I think you might be confusing the subject.

 

I wish it was at all possible to discuss the very obvious and common flaws of GW2 without the fanboy police storming in and derailing the subject.

how is passive grouping such as in Rift and differn't? what is required of you to BE in a group.. because you have to click join party? you are fighting WITH people either way to complete a goal... how is this any differn't again?

Thank you for proving my point better than any logical argument ever could.

People aren't grouping or socializing. That is what this whole argument has been about.

People around you feel like bots rather than people. There's a huge difference between standing next to someone and actually conversing with them, don't you think?

  User Deleted
9/25/12 3:35:56 PM#143
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Lathial

 

 

 

It’s really a bummer cause I like the game and the pace of combat.  However, I have 8 toons, one of each class and, most of them post 40, and I have never talked to anyone in the game.  I don’t even really remember any person’s name that I have seen or grouped with for dungeons.   Its like im playing a single player game with some goofy AI named "deesnutz" and "drizzt" who will occasionally join me for a veteran or champion kill.  

 

Summed up the biggest, most universal problem with the game.

 Have you guys tried to join a guild?  Tried to do a dungeon?  Tried to do WvW or SPvP?

The game lets you solo if you want to, and it lets you group if you want to.  You seem to be choosing just to solo the entire time and then complaining that there is no grouping or socialization...irony?

Nice assumptions there bud. The game doesn't encourage grouping or socializing, so people don't do either. I shouldn't have to join a guild to find a group, I haven't had to do that in any properly designed MMO.

I've gone around in every zone trying to talk to people in local and after 2 weeks, only got ONE response, it was a "ty' after rezzing someone. That's it. No on wanted to group, no one talked. It felt like I was playing with bots. I'm talking about the main game, not RvR.

 Sorry but I find people talking in game all the time. Map chat is full of conversation.

 

Stop blaming the game design for the social misfits.

I've played MMos for a long long time. The social atmosphere of a game is always a direct result of the design of the game.

When DAoC rewarded and encouraged grouping, it was incredibly social, people chatting and grouping constantly. As soon as soloing became better, it was an antisocial game.

And no one said anything about map chat, we'lre talking about actual player grouping and local chat. Stop derailing the topic.

 Map chat is the local chat in GW2.

No.... it isn't. /say is the local chat of GW2. Next?

 /say is not used except for the people you can see. When I say thank you for a rez I use/say.

No kidding. That's what we're all talking about. Welcome to 2 pages of posts ago.

What we're saying is, nobody uses /say to talk to anyone around them, no one responds to local chat or group requests, because the game is inherently antisocial. Other players feel like bots.

If I want to group with people in the area, I'm not going to run around and ask unless its a close DE, which I have done. I will use map chat to get a group together. When noone is around and you use /say, of course noone will respond. Besides that, if you bother to go throu the trouble of messaging, I'm sure someone will answer, I can't imagine why most are ignoring you, unless you are running around lions arch whispering people to join your group for no particular reason and half are either afk or busy doing other things.

 

This whole thread has nothing to do with /say ruining grouping. You clearly dropped the ball on comprehension if you think that.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

9/25/12 3:36:25 PM#144
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by
People like you are antisocial not the game itself. You are blaming the game for a people problem instead of the people.

Are you kidding me? [mod edit]

You're saying its MY FAULT that people aren't using the local chat channel to talk to people right next to them? I'm antosocial for trying to group with people? [mod edit]

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/25/12 3:37:17 PM#145
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

Thank you for proving my point better than any logical argument ever could.

People aren't grouping or socializing. That is what this whole argument has been about.

People around you feel like bots rather than people. There's a huge difference between standing next to someone and actually conversing with them, don't you think?

no they don't also what themepark MMO have you NEEDED to converse to complete basic group content ? Even dungeons in 90% of themeparks you don't need to say a word since everyone knows their role and does it.. GW2 at least basic dungeons require a little coordination

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Rokurgepta

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 2208

9/25/12 3:38:26 PM#146
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by
People like you are antisocial not the game itself. You are blaming the game for a people problem instead of the people.

Are you kidding me? [mod edit]

You're saying its MY FAULT that people aren't using the local chat channel to talk to people right next to them? I'm antosocial for trying to group with people? [mod edit]

 They use map chat. End of story. Not my fault you are not clued in to the reality of it. I see people use /say when they are close and /map as general chat. Not my fault people in game dont like you, but I am starting to see why you are having such issues.

  User Deleted
9/25/12 3:38:44 PM#147
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by
People like you are antisocial not the game itself. You are blaming the game for a people problem instead of the people.

Are you kidding me? [mod edit]

You're saying its MY FAULT that people aren't using the local chat channel to talk to people right next to them? I'm antosocial for trying to group with people? [mod edit]

You got map chat to talk, you got party chat to talk, you got guild chat to talk. Why bother talking in /say when people are going to be moving about constantly and holding a conversation with them would require you to run around and follow them, when instead you can whisper them. /say isn't used in any game, you're out of your mind if you think this.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

9/25/12 3:39:51 PM#148
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

Thank you for proving my point better than any logical argument ever could.

People aren't grouping or socializing. That is what this whole argument has been about.

People around you feel like bots rather than people. There's a huge difference between standing next to someone and actually conversing with them, don't you think?

no they don't also what themepark MMO have you NEEDED to converse to complete basic group content ? Even dungeons in 90% of themeparks you don't need to say a word since everyone knows their role and does it.. GW2 at least basic dungeons require a little coordination

And those are all bad things.

Saying "GW2 isn't any worse than these horrible games, so it gets a free pass!" seems like the last act of a desperate person to defend their game.

 

  Rokurgepta

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 2208

9/25/12 3:41:27 PM#149
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

Thank you for proving my point better than any logical argument ever could.

People aren't grouping or socializing. That is what this whole argument has been about.

People around you feel like bots rather than people. There's a huge difference between standing next to someone and actually conversing with them, don't you think?

no they don't also what themepark MMO have you NEEDED to converse to complete basic group content ? Even dungeons in 90% of themeparks you don't need to say a word since everyone knows their role and does it.. GW2 at least basic dungeons require a little coordination

And those are all bad things.

Saying "GW2 isn't any worse than these horrible games, so it gets a free pass!" seems like the last act of a desperate person to defend their game.

 

 Isnt it your game too?

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2369

9/25/12 3:41:35 PM#150
Originally posted by eggy08
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by
People like you are antisocial not the game itself. You are blaming the game for a people problem instead of the people.

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously this warped?

You're saying its MY FAULT that people aren't using the local chat channel to talk to people right next to them? I'm antosocial for trying to group with people? I.. I can't fathom this level of delusion.

You got map chat to talk, you got party chat to talk, you got guild chat to talk. Why bother talking in /say when people are going to be moving about constantly and holding a conversation with them would require you to run around and follow them, when instead you can whisper them. /say isn't used in any game, you're out of your mind if you think this.

/say is, and always was, the chat channel to talk to people standing next to you. It's how you work with people in your immediate area. It's what makes people seem, you know, like people.

You say "durrder derp just use /map" that doesn't change the fact that nobody in your immediate area are grouping or talking. Just faceless names spouting nonsense in /map. No REAL socializing.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/25/12 3:42:41 PM#151
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

Thank you for proving my point better than any logical argument ever could.

People aren't grouping or socializing. That is what this whole argument has been about.

People around you feel like bots rather than people. There's a huge difference between standing next to someone and actually conversing with them, don't you think?

no they don't also what themepark MMO have you NEEDED to converse to complete basic group content ? Even dungeons in 90% of themeparks you don't need to say a word since everyone knows their role and does it.. GW2 at least basic dungeons require a little coordination

And those are all bad things.

Saying "GW2 isn't any worse than these horrible games, so it gets a free pass!" seems like the last act of a desperate person to defend their game.

 

i enjoy themeparks for what they are you obviously do not.. but again this game has more reasons to get together and play with others than any other themepark I have played recently so to me it says a lot

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Lathial

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 176

 
OP  9/25/12 3:42:53 PM#152
Originally posted by SteeJanz

Just to clarify a point I am sure many already have made, GW2 still has the trinity (Healing, DPS, Mitigating Enemy damage), what it doesn't have is the "Holy Trinity" or dedicated roles. 

No player has to dedicate themselves to just one discipline but the group must still possess and utilize all three.

The OP's statements about the lack of the trinity and grouping is nothing more than a  rant.  It's to be expected in a new game.  I was not very impressed after my first successful completion of an explorable path as well but it wasn't the fault of the game.  It was the fault of the players.   We completed the dungeon with 5 dps instead of a a more trinity rounded group.  We died a ton and even though we finished it, it sucked because it wasn't fun. 

Heals are still needed in GW2 dungeons, damage mitigation/control is still needed in GW2 and DPS is still needed in GW2.  The difference is that all three are spread out over the entire group and not defined to a characters role.  The trinity is still alive and kicking in GW2 and they never said they were removing it, only the hard set defined roles. 

I think the confusion comes from the fact that there are rules defined in the holy trinity that people follow.  It appears that people have not identified rules to follow in GW2 yet.  If people took the time to understand them and learn how it works, I believe they will find the dungeons to be much more enjoyable and just as fun as a holy trinity based one.  Here are a few tips that might help those that actually what to give it a chance.

  1. You can't run a holy trinity dungeon with 5 DPS so don't expect to be able to run a soft trinity dungeon with 5 dps.
  2. Bring support oriented skills and traits that help your team.  If your utility bar is full of damage skills that only help you, cross your fingers that the other 4 people brought skills to cover your weakness.
  3. This goes with #2,  remember your a tank, healper ,and dps.  Weapon swapping can switch your role instantly when the situation calls for it.  
  4. You can change you skills and weapons during the dungeon.  If you went through the whold dungeon and never adjusted your skills or build, that's a shame because you could have been much more affective.  There are times when the group should be DPS heavy or condition removal heavy, etc....
  5. Try to learn the bosses.  Bosses aggro for different reasons, learning them will help you understand what you should do.  Sometimes, you have aggro so it's your job to avoid the boss, yes that's right, run away.  Move to avoid the heavy damage that they do, it's your turn to control the boss and your main focus should be that and not dps.  I know you didnt ask for it but it's ok you can do it.  Knowing the boss and what they will do, makes the fight much less hectic.  Pulling the boss to a good spot can help make a fight managable.  You know that same stuff you did in the holy trinity dungeons, they work in soft trinity dungeons as well.
  6. Don't let people get defeated.  It takes less then half the time to get a downed player up from a downed state then it does to get them up from a defeated state.  In hard fights you will not be able to get a defeated player up.  If someone goes down get them back up before they are defeated.  It happens in a fight, get used to it.  People keep making the charge that some fights are a rez zerg.  If you notice most the time, it's because one or  two people seem to not get defeated while the rest keep going down.  If you keep running back and the fight is still going because some other guy keeps the fight going, you should be wondering what that guy is doing and what you are not.
  7. Use a tank.  Treating the dungeon like a holy trinity run helps alot.  Having one person that can mitigate some damage early should be your tank.  Their role may change a few seconds into the fight but having some one running point and pulling and starting the fights help the team be more organized.  And you don't get 4 different people opening the pods in TA.  This also helps establish a rule that is followed in the holy trinity runs that I don't see people doing in the soft trinity runs.  When everyone runs point in the a holy trinity based dungeon you get the same chaos.
  8. Gear matters.  Sorry but it does and I know that you got to level 35 so your ready to run AC explorable mode, but I can guarantee that your party will appreciate the fact that you upgraded your level 22 armor to 35 armor before you started the dungeon.  Also, if your gear is spec'ed for power and crit's, your support skills will be less effective.  If your going support, spec that way.  Once again, the rules of the Holy trinity says that a healer doesn't heal wearing tank gear.  One maybe two people can be spec'ed for DPS, the rest need to be spec'ed for support.  Well that is if you don't want to die alot.  Think of it this way, do we want to die more or less, then spec for your answer.
  9. Use your skills wisely.  I am an engineer and I use the elixir gun because it provides alot of group support.  During condition damage heavy fights I used to throw down my super elixir so that everyone could stand in the circle so that their attacks could removed conditions.  However, it's hard for the others in the party  to notice in the fight because they have to pay attention to other things.  So now I throw it down on the boss so that others just get the benefit without having to stand any place special.  The combo happens because they attack through it not in it.
  10. Don't stand in stuff. 

I think making the statement that the GW2 lacks the trinity is an absolutely false statement because it is easy to prove it's in the game so starting a discussion that claims it doesn't exist is pointless. 

However lacking a tool that makes it easy to adjust your build to fit the needs of a group is another story.  Right now, to run dungeons effectively in GW2 it requires people to take too much time to identify the team make up and to make changes that compliments the team.  It is a pain to go back to town to respec (especially since GW1 had a nice system for handling builds and allowed for quick changes).  Now that would be worthy of discussion.

 

I think your post is well thought out and informative so ill bump it.   However, if you boil everything down what you just said matches my original post in that you need dps/support and that’s it to group in this game.  Your "soft trinity" is just a glorified way of saying dps / support.  It may be interesting/ fun/ complicated / whatever- it’s still just dps/ support.  

Bosses are sorta-blitz-kited (controlled)...dps'd.  That’s not any better or more interesting that tanked and spanked IMO 

Look, I’m playing the game right now, I think its fun for a solo-ish game and interesting PvP (at least its new) but I do think and will reiterate that the lack of incentive to group/ guild is a major issue.   There are level 80's (who have posted in this thread) who never grouped till level 80.  They didn’t feel the need to- why would you if you didn’t need to right?  The lack of need / incentive to group or even talk to other people is a major issue!  

Developers design games like these to funnel players into predetermined situations.  Hence the term theme park- you are funneled in lines for rides.  This game has not done an adequate job of funneling players into a social / grouping situation.  A good example of this is that your first dungeon does not come until you are half way through the level cap.  And it’s still not required or needed.  You as a player spend half you leveling career solo before you ever need “need” to group.  That is a game design flaw IMO

 

Lath

  Rokurgepta

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 2208

9/25/12 3:44:01 PM#153
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by eggy08
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by
People like you are antisocial not the game itself. You are blaming the game for a people problem instead of the people.

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously this warped?

You're saying its MY FAULT that people aren't using the local chat channel to talk to people right next to them? I'm antosocial for trying to group with people? I.. I can't fathom this level of delusion.

You got map chat to talk, you got party chat to talk, you got guild chat to talk. Why bother talking in /say when people are going to be moving about constantly and holding a conversation with them would require you to run around and follow them, when instead you can whisper them. /say isn't used in any game, you're out of your mind if you think this.

/say is, and always was, the chat channel to talk to people standing next to you. It's how you work with people in your immediate area. It's what makes people seem, you know, like people.

You say "durrder derp just use /map" that doesn't change the fact that nobody in your immediate area are grouping or talking. Just faceless names spouting nonsense in /map. No REAL socializing.

 Why do you come here to start fights and insult people? /map is not full of nonsense at all. Saying that makes me think you really dont play. /map is full of people grouping for content and discussing the game about 95% of the time from what I have seen. I cant take your nonsense seriously when it goes against all that I see in game when I play.

  User Deleted
9/25/12 3:48:36 PM#154
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by eggy08
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by
People like you are antisocial not the game itself. You are blaming the game for a people problem instead of the people.

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously this warped?

You're saying its MY FAULT that people aren't using the local chat channel to talk to people right next to them? I'm antosocial for trying to group with people? I.. I can't fathom this level of delusion.

You got map chat to talk, you got party chat to talk, you got guild chat to talk. Why bother talking in /say when people are going to be moving about constantly and holding a conversation with them would require you to run around and follow them, when instead you can whisper them. /say isn't used in any game, you're out of your mind if you think this.

/say is, and always was, the chat channel to talk to people standing next to you. It's how you work with people in your immediate area. It's what makes people seem, you know, like people.

You say "durrder derp just use /map" that doesn't change the fact that nobody in your immediate area are grouping or talking. Just faceless names spouting nonsense in /map. No REAL socializing.

I don't, nor do I ever care to use /say, nor is it the "chat channel" you claim it to be. If you do, then I can go into any game and have /say as the only channel I'm looking at and it will be practically empty. If I want to talk to someone in the area, I usually whisper them, only using /say when there is more than 1 and I'm lazy.[mod edit]

  gandles

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/09
Posts: 51

9/25/12 3:49:53 PM#155
If you dont like it, stop playing it, bottom line... Others enjoy it and everyone will whine about some aspect of any game thats released no matter how good or badly its put together. I like it^^, as do many, many others
  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/25/12 3:50:13 PM#156
Originally posted by Zeppelin4
Originally posted by SteeJanz

Snip

Nice write up. Just thought I would bump it since you spent the time to post it. 

:)  It's no biggie, I am used to people ignoring what I say. 

 

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2506

9/25/12 3:57:29 PM#157
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DavisFlight
 

Thank you for proving my point better than any logical argument ever could.

People aren't grouping or socializing. That is what this whole argument has been about.

People around you feel like bots rather than people. There's a huge difference between standing next to someone and actually conversing with them, don't you think?

no they don't also what themepark MMO have you NEEDED to converse to complete basic group content ? Even dungeons in 90% of themeparks you don't need to say a word since everyone knows their role and does it.. GW2 at least basic dungeons require a little coordination

And those are all bad things.

Saying "GW2 isn't any worse than these horrible games, so it gets a free pass!" seems like the last act of a desperate person to defend their game.

 

 Isnt it your game too?

[mod edit]

 When your personal experience in game is so different from mine it does sound made up. You make claims about /map that are not true when I play or on my server from what I see. So do you really expect me to believe that? Instead of a debate you immediately call people fanboys, and wonder why no one then takes you seriously?

[mod edit]

Youre bringing up people offering no concrete ideas and things that have no bearing on the subject, yet every legitimate response to you telling you how wrong you are along with a perfectly good reasonf or it met with "That doesnt count. Youre wrong".

Nobody here has been playing fanboy. Many people have given you plenty of solid stuff, youre just so hard up for an argument and so desperate to be right that no matter what anyone tells you ever, theyre going to be wrong according to you.

[mod edit]

  SimonVDH

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 165

9/25/12 4:00:31 PM#158

My feelings are similar to OPs;

I refuse to play multiplayer games where you have no need to interact with anybody. If I can't either kill/steal from/grief or heal/protect/help others, and my actions aren't crucial to other people gaming experience, than I don't see any point in playing multiplayer games at all, especially multiplayer RPGs.

  Rokurgepta

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 2208

9/25/12 4:04:57 PM#159
Originally posted by SimonVDH

My feelings are similar to OPs;

I refuse to play multiplayer games where you have no need to interact with anybody. If I can't either kill/steal from/grief or heal/protect/help others, and my actions aren't crucial to other people gaming experience, than I don't see any point in playing multiplayer games at all, especially multiplayer RPGs.

 I can heal/protect and help others in GW2. I cant kill steal or grief them. That is probably why you would not like this game since helping was not your first choice but kill stealing and griefing were.

 

 

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

9/25/12 4:06:48 PM#160
Originally posted by SimonVDH

My feelings are similar to OPs;

I refuse to play multiplayer games where you have no need to interact with anybody. If I can't either kill/steal from/grief or heal/protect/help others, and my actions aren't crucial to other people gaming experience, than I don't see any point in playing multiplayer games at all, especially multiplayer RPGs.

Ok so then GW2 isn't your game.  Glad to have helped you there.

 

I see plenty of point in playing GW2.  It can be very social, if you play it that way.  If you play it like a SPRPG, it will feel just like that.  Or you can mix the styles, that's what I tend to do.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

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