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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » No real instruction to combo fields

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72 posts found
  dariuszp

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 187

9/24/12 5:27:15 AM#21

Combo attacks are huge. Right combination of spells and weapon skills or match your skills with your friend and you can burn down mobs or players much faster. 

This game is designe for co-op. Combo attacks are part of that system. You can do them yourself or better - with someone else (cross player combo works).

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6187

9/24/12 6:07:01 AM#22

Just use the mystical magical combo builder tool:

 

http://mastodonte.fr/outils/tool-combo#en

  timtrack

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 415

9/24/12 6:15:14 AM#23
I see it as part of the progression. It is a way to indeed grow more powerful without better gear/stats, but you have to work for it.
  Xten

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/12
Posts: 127

9/24/12 7:30:48 AM#24
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Xten
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

Again the problem is not that they are hard to understand. If you go out assuming that people are not able to understand this system you are simply being arrogant. The problem is that the significance of them or the fact that they are even there is not being made known outside of a wiki.

 

As Blitz already poited out people usually do not go to a wiki to use as a game manual. Anet has posted about how important they are in dungeons and seeing as how many are having issues in those i really dont get why they do not make the feature more prominent to new players or older players who did not see the importance in them for that matter.

Has is ever occurred that people are meant to work out the significance of combos as part of their group play? If someone knows how to activate combos, why the hell wouldn't you? Are they learning the combos but not using them because ANET hasn't nailed a sign up saying "Must use combos guys and gals"?

 

I would have thought that the fact that they are noted in tooltips on your skills would have been a pretty clear indicator as to the fact that "they are there" outside of wiki. That coupled with the fact you see them fly off every 5 seconds when in a group.

 

Maybe ANET could promote it a bit more, but I fail to see an issue with it as it stands.

 

If thats your answer you might want to re-read my post.

 

for one i myself dont have problems with combos(but then again i followed this game and details for quite some time)  but i do see that they go unused by most players in the game outside of the obvious accidental use. I keep telling people about it everyday i play mostly in spvp ,  their response ususally is "owh thats cool" but thats it i do not even see them to try and use it so the "thats cool" basically translates to a "whatever, gimmick"  There is simply no emphasis made on it in the game. << the point

 

Im also getting a bit tired telling people about it and trying to convince people to use it who are on my team. I could care less wether they use it or not in PvE.

This is not a fps game where you get a gun and simply start using it for obvious reasons. People are not used to seeing it in MMORPG's and so far most only seem to regard it has a proc.

  User Deleted
9/24/12 7:39:18 AM#25

Definitely agree with the OP, would be nice if the Wiki table was available in the in game help and as a pop up tutorial at a low level.

A lot of fields initially appear weak until you realise the combo potential. Water and darkness fields can dish out a lot more healing than they would initially seem to once you get people doing combos within them.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7648

9/24/12 7:47:54 AM#26
Originally posted by saurus123
Originally posted by Gorudu

Ever since my experience of my first dungeon and sPvP, I've noticed that the biggest advice is to learn combo fields. Apparently they are a pretty big deal. That being said, in my experience up to level 46, there hasn't been in intro or some sort of tutorial to combo fields. This is a problem. 

 

I think Arenanet needs to put in some sort of tutorial system for combo fields. I know there are plenty of resources online, and I'm not saying I'm having a problem personally with combo fields anymore. But going into the first dungeon at level 35 with no real instructions can make those first few experiences a discouraging mess. Many people are complaining about the dungeon system because of a lack of a tutorial. 

 

I don't think anything's wrong with the mechanics. I just think it's odd how there is no in-game introduction to such an important mechanic. Hopefully Anet will implement one in the near future.

and whats so hard to learn them?

 

it cant be simplier

combo field + finisher 

Ah a fellow mathematician, not really but for the sake of this explanation. Excellent equation! I would like to expand on your work. 

 

Defensive combo field + Finisher = Buff

Offensive combo field + Finisher = Debuff. 

 

This is an attempt to make the system look complex and deep. The system is in place and in theory it's good. In practice it's  it very basic compared to what it could be, almost passive. It could be so much more.  

 

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11789

9/24/12 7:57:20 AM#27
Originally posted by gestalt11

Just use the mystical magical combo builder tool:

 

http://mastodonte.fr/outils/tool-combo#en

thank you

  Clocksimus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/10
Posts: 356

9/24/12 7:59:38 AM#28
Originally posted by evilastro

Definitely agree with the OP, would be nice if the Wiki table was available in the in game help and as a pop up tutorial at a low level.

A lot of fields initially appear weak until you realise the combo potential. Water and darkness fields can dish out a lot more healing than they would initially seem to once you get people doing combos within them.

But they do have a explaination! Early on at about level 3-6  I think, there is a two sentence long explantion that you can use combo fields as a tip.  /sarcasm on: What more do you need to know? If you didn't grasp the system from the tooltip anet gave you, then it is your fault and you are doing it wrong.  Combo fields are so easy to use and pure win.  Nubs will die  because they are bad and can't figure out how to use them. /sarcasm off

I did not know about combo fields until my 5th? alt in GW2. I tend to just close tips as they are generally non-sense like "you can attack by left clicking." (really?) and noticed randomly that when i dropped fire with my torch and threw my axe through it, my axes were on fire.  Later rerolling I glance at a tip and there it is, a footnote long  bit about a system that  is a cornerstone of GW2 combat.

I do not even wish to know how people can say things along the lines of "that is what a wiki is for" when talking about the complete lack of instructions in a game.  Maybe an asian game where the explaination was left out in translation but what excuse does anet have for giving this combat feature (which is apparently important to the overall gameplay and combat) a  couple lines and never mentioned again?

 

EDIT: Would also like to point out to people explaining combo system  to OP, that he stated the lack of instructions to the system is an issue and not the system itself.   Combo fields could use some work but they aren't hard to use at all  and people most likely in zergs use them without even being aware they are doing so.  The problem is that most don't know (because they were hardly  introduced) and so in organized group play, not zergs, they just fall flat.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7648

9/24/12 8:06:05 AM#29
Originally posted by Clocksimus
Originally posted by evilastro

Definitely agree with the OP, would be nice if the Wiki table was available in the in game help and as a pop up tutorial at a low level.

A lot of fields initially appear weak until you realise the combo potential. Water and darkness fields can dish out a lot more healing than they would initially seem to once you get people doing combos within them.

 

I did not know about combo fields until my 5th? alt in GW2. I tend to just close tips as they are generally non-sense like "you can attack by left clicking." (really?) and noticed randomly that when i dropped fire with my torch and threw my axe through it, my axes were on fire.  Later rerolling I glance at a tip and there it is, a footnote long  bit about a system that  is a cornerstone of GW2 combo.

 

You used them all the time naturally though w/o knowing the existed. It's not a thing where "only good players use them" It's hard not to use them.

  Clocksimus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/10
Posts: 356

9/24/12 8:06:56 AM#30
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Clocksimus
Originally posted by evilastro

Definitely agree with the OP, would be nice if the Wiki table was available in the in game help and as a pop up tutorial at a low level.

A lot of fields initially appear weak until you realise the combo potential. Water and darkness fields can dish out a lot more healing than they would initially seem to once you get people doing combos within them.

 

I did not know about combo fields until my 5th? alt in GW2. I tend to just close tips as they are generally non-sense like "you can attack by left clicking." (really?) and noticed randomly that when i dropped fire with my torch and threw my axe through it, my axes were on fire.  Later rerolling I glance at a tip and there it is, a footnote long  bit about a system that  is a cornerstone of GW2 combo.

 

You used them all the time naturally though w/o knowing the existed. It's not a thing where "only good players use them" It's hard not to use them.

Yes but as i said in edit, the problem occurs when it isn't just a zergfest anymore and you  have to know what you are doing.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7648

9/24/12 8:17:44 AM#31
Originally posted by Clocksimus
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Clocksimus
Originally posted by evilastro

Definitely agree with the OP, would be nice if the Wiki table was available in the in game help and as a pop up tutorial at a low level.

A lot of fields initially appear weak until you realise the combo potential. Water and darkness fields can dish out a lot more healing than they would initially seem to once you get people doing combos within them.

 

I did not know about combo fields until my 5th? alt in GW2. I tend to just close tips as they are generally non-sense like "you can attack by left clicking." (really?) and noticed randomly that when i dropped fire with my torch and threw my axe through it, my axes were on fire.  Later rerolling I glance at a tip and there it is, a footnote long  bit about a system that  is a cornerstone of GW2 combo.

 

You used them all the time naturally though w/o knowing the existed. It's not a thing where "only good players use them" It's hard not to use them.

Yes but as i said in edit, the problem occurs when it isn't just a zergfest anymore and you  have to know what you are doing.

I see the edit now. We agree for the most part.

 

Look at a 5 man example. 5 people lay down AoE then Dps into it. There will be 3-5 debuffs up on the mob w/o trying.  5 people stand in friendly AoE there will be 3-5 buffs naturally. 

 

It almost feels unfinished. If they would take the extra step to make your 5 whirl finishers (warrior) have different active effects. As it stands now if you whirl in combo field A you are going to do Y no matter which whirl ability you use. 

  User Deleted
9/24/12 8:26:09 AM#32
Originally posted by Xten
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Xten
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

 

If thats your answer you might want to re-read my post.

 

for one i myself dont have problems with combos(but then again i followed this game and details for quite some time)  but i do see that they go unused by most players in the game outside of the obvious accidental use. I keep telling people about it everyday i play mostly in spvp ,  their response ususally is "owh thats cool" but thats it i do not even see them to try and use it so the "thats cool" basically translates to a "whatever, gimmick"  There is simply no emphasis made on it in the game. << the point

 

Im also getting a bit tired telling people about it and trying to convince people to use it who are on my team. I could care less wether they use it or not in PvE.

This is not a fps game where you get a gun and simply start using it for obvious reasons. People are not used to seeing it in MMORPG's and so far most only seem to regard it has a proc.

My answer being that they are easy to perform, easy to discover and clearly marked as existing in the tool tips of the skills that every single player uses every time they go into combat? If people think additional area heals, might stacks et al are gimmicks.. yeah that's not a dev team issue.

 

At some point you do realise that the onus lies on the player to actually work out whether something is important or not.  If you are telling people and then they are still not using it, they are just bad players. No amount of "Do combos!!!" is going to change that fact.

 

I gave up trying to explain basic stuff in pugs long ago, after you see people hammering on tanks and ignoring priority targets, fail to protect healers, fail to use assist/guard, you just stop running pugs. If you (generalized not aimed at you) are having to constantly explain to your team then either you are in a pug (and shouldn't be surprised) or you are simply in a bad team, c'est la vie.

 

If people read their tool tips they can see there are combos. If people are ever fighting with other players they will see combos go off. They know combos are there. They will also see the effects these combos have, what extra emphasis do people need?

 

You read about them, no problem. I looked at my tooltips and tried them out from the get go (followed by pretty much just running an ELE as a combo machine), no problem. So the issue then might, just might be with some of the players.

 

Perhaps combos are part of what is meant to separate a good pvp team from a bad one? Or at least their significance is something that is meant to be learned by the player.

 

Maybe adding some further information might make a difference which is why I've said perhaps they could add some info earlier. BUT I really can't see the issue with it as it stands at the moment and feel you will still get the majority NOT using combos most of the time and still just hammering away.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/24/12 8:33:22 AM#33
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

So haphazardly?

How many can pinpoint exactly what Dark, Ethereal, Fire, Ice, Light, Lightning, Poison, Smoke, Water (NINE) combo starters do? And that each has at least two different types of effect depending on your class and the skill/weapon you use....

So far I haven't seen anyone use this feature besides randomly.

Haphazardly? It takes less than 5 minutes to run through any personal combos you can do (once you have your weapons skills ofc), you can do it rather systematically.

 

In a group or near other people? See a field? Press a combo finisher and note what happens.

 

That is not haphazard, that is experimentation and it is neither difficult or really time consuming in this case but it does give the player something to explore without the need for spoon feeding them absolutely everything.

 

If you haven't seen anyone using combos other than randomly them either you have been incredibly unlucky and have been grouped/near the worst players on earth, or you are simply not noticing it (which is the one I am going to go for here). I rotated combos all the time on my ELE in groups and I have noticed loads of people setting up repeat combos when I've been finishing them on my WAR and that is talking about the usual zerg DE's, not more structured pvp/dungeons where they occur far more often.

 

I'm not against them putting in a list (already a wiki after all), but I really can't see what is so hard about it at the moment.

 

Oh why did I bother? I'm so so sorry. The game is absolutely perfect. Everything is clear as day and everyone is playing to the best of their abilities. I hardly see anybody dying like noobs. People know exactly which skills to use to save the day as well.

Yep, nothing for me to see here, moving on. Enjoy.

He doesn't understand and it doesn't appear he wants to understand, NBlitz.

I agree that, while the system is easy to use (shoot, leap or blast in or through a white circle), it's not at all intuitive and there's very little feedback as to what the combo was or what the results were. I'm hoping they add more info ingame.

As an engineer, I just try to shoot mobs in or on the other side of a wall or aoe spell. On some I can tell something happened - split hearts that say burning, condition or poison - but on others I really am not sure what the effect is other than sometimes a visual change in the projectile or blast.  For example, when one of my turrets is getting low on health, I'll wait until there's a player aoe circle cast around it before blowing it up because I know that will give a buff or regen to the group if I do.

It took a a bit before I realized thast when the sites were talking about a 'finisher' it just meant "second half of the pair" and not that it had to be the finishing shot on the mob.

Great system, virtually non-existent dissemination of information on it and nothing really in game other than a quick brief message when your first combo happens.

 

"There is simply no emphasis made on it in the game. << the point" -Xten

Exactly. Xten, your part about players perceiving it as a proc or, worse, a gimmick seems about right. It doesn't seem really communicated how these can really help in PvE and how they can prove to offer game-changing differences in PvP.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  User Deleted
9/24/12 8:38:14 AM#34
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

He doesn't understand and it doesn't appear he wants to understand, NBlitz.

I see the viewpoint being put forward and I disagree with it. There is something of a difference between that and "not wanting to understand", but nevermind.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

9/24/12 9:03:43 AM#35
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by Scalpless

You can utilise combo fields by yourself, but many professions either have lots of combo finishers (Warriors) or lots of combo field-creating skills (Necro). Basically, you create a field and use a finisher inside it or through it. For example, a Warrior could ignite the ground with his adrenal longbow skill, switch to 1h sword and use its skill #2 to leap through it and set the foes on fire.

It's a pretty simple system, but I suppose having a list of combo fields in-game wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, the official wiki exists for a reason.

To me, it's reason is as an alternative viable source of information. I shouldn't feel forced to browse online for information that should be readily available in-game.

E.g. I tried looking for info on something a day or two ago, via the Help function, but the info I was looking for wasn't there.

 

It should not be in game.   Part of MMOs is learning the environmental rules.   How raids work.   How mobs work.   How skills work together.   How different builds work.  And we do this through the scientific process because we have developed the scientific habits of mind.   Otherwise known as SCIENTIFIC THINKING. 

 

That's what 'theory crafters' are doing.   That's what these guys who learn raids are doing.   The help funciton is just a 'magic box' for those who can't think.  And I, for one, and glad it's not there.  And hasn't been there in virtually every MMO I've ever played.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

9/24/12 9:18:19 AM#36
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

So haphazardly?

How many can pinpoint exactly what Dark, Ethereal, Fire, Ice, Light, Lightning, Poison, Smoke, Water (NINE) combo starters do? And that each has at least two different types of effect depending on your class and the skill/weapon you use....

So far I haven't seen anyone use this feature besides randomly.

Haphazardly? It takes less than 5 minutes to run through any personal combos you can do (once you have your weapons skills ofc), you can do it rather systematically.

 

In a group or near other people? See a field? Press a combo finisher and note what happens.

 

That is not haphazard, that is experimentation and it is neither difficult or really time consuming in this case but it does give the player something to explore without the need for spoon feeding them absolutely everything.

 

If you haven't seen anyone using combos other than randomly them either you have been incredibly unlucky and have been grouped/near the worst players on earth, or you are simply not noticing it (which is the one I am going to go for here). I rotated combos all the time on my ELE in groups and I have noticed loads of people setting up repeat combos when I've been finishing them on my WAR and that is talking about the usual zerg DE's, not more structured pvp/dungeons where they occur far more often.

 

I'm not against them putting in a list (already a wiki after all), but I really can't see what is so hard about it at the moment.

 

Oh why did I bother? I'm so so sorry. The game is absolutely perfect. Everything is clear as day and everyone is playing to the best of their abilities. I hardly see anybody dying like noobs. People know exactly which skills to use to save the day as well.

Yep, nothing for me to see here, moving on. Enjoy.

 

So, sarcasm because you were demolished?  

 

He's right you know.   MMOs are about thinking and experimenting via the scientific process.   Just like he described.  

 

No game gives you the solution to a raid.   You have to learn it yourself or from those who have learned it before you.  NO game gives you the optimal build for your skill-based character, you have to learn it yourself or from those who learned it before you.   

 

This game has combo-fields.   You have those who use put in the effort and, therefore, know how to utilize the combo fields.  And you have those that refuse to think, experiment or even try.  

 

Let's look at the elementalist.  With scepter/dagger you build self-combos in fire that increase might.   You can stack 10.   The necromancer can stack weakness and poison combos and just waste things.   The guardian has a self-combo with the greatsword.   And all classes have self-combos.  

 

But the best ones are for parties.   You have a field.  You have a finisher.     The two together do something.

 

Dark + Blast = AOE Blindness

Fire + Leap = Fire Armor

Ice + Projectile = Chilled

 

And so on.    All discovered by players who sat down there and worked it out by thinking about it and getting off their butts and doing something instead of complaining about it and doing nothing.

 

 

 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/24/12 9:24:10 AM#37
Originally posted by MosesZD

This game has combo-fields.   You have those who use put in the effort and, therefore, know how to utilize the combo fields.

Let's look at the elementalist.  With scepter/dagger you build self-combos in fire that increase might.   You can stack 10.   The necromancer can stack weakness and poison combos and just waste things.   The guardian has a self-combo with the greatsword.   And all classes have self-combos.  

But the best ones are for parties.   You have a field.  You have a finisher.     The two together do something.

Dark + Blast = AOE Blindness

Fire + Leap = Fire Armor

Ice + Projectile = Chilled

 I found a good bit of your post rather helpful. Jotted down those combinations to try out later today. 

Question: How do I tell what element/type the circle is?

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  User Deleted
9/24/12 9:28:38 AM#38
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MosesZD

 

 I found a good bit of your post rather helpful. Jotted down those combinations to try out later today. 

Question: How do I tell what element/type the circle is?

Looking at it helps.

  Clocksimus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/10
Posts: 356

9/24/12 9:39:45 AM#39
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MosesZD

 

 I found a good bit of your post rather helpful. Jotted down those combinations to try out later today. 

Question: How do I tell what element/type the circle is?

Looking at it helps.

GW2 has to have the most agressive, rude and ignorant community or maybe just vocal minority.

To answer the question (without making it sound like I'm a superior being compared to you)  like the combo system itself you just have to know what is what basically.  As far as I'm aware, there isn't a nice pop up that comes by when you step into a  field of x type or one that lists types of fields near by.  It surely would make the system a lot more visually appealing but in short the system is best summed up as follows: Throw all your ranged spells through circles on the ground and stand in circles if you are using melee abilities.  Knowing what does what is basically purely off your own exp or looking it up.  There isn't a solid source of information about how fields work in the entire game. Which is the problem the OP stated. Which everyone that loves GW2 seems to be ignoring. Which is why GW2 topics about valid issues always go nowhere.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1697

9/24/12 9:45:18 AM#40
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MosesZD

This game has combo-fields.   You have those who use put in the effort and, therefore, know how to utilize the combo fields.

Let's look at the elementalist.  With scepter/dagger you build self-combos in fire that increase might.   You can stack 10.   The necromancer can stack weakness and poison combos and just waste things.   The guardian has a self-combo with the greatsword.   And all classes have self-combos.  

But the best ones are for parties.   You have a field.  You have a finisher.     The two together do something.

Dark + Blast = AOE Blindness

Fire + Leap = Fire Armor

Ice + Projectile = Chilled

 I found a good bit of your post rather helpful. Jotted down those combinations to try out later today. 

Question: How do I tell what element/type the circle is?

The visual effects are really clear indicators, with possibly water and light having some confusion in very intense fights. Otherwise, they look pretty much how you think they should look. Poison is green swirly crap, fire is well fiery, water looks like a big puddle, where light typically has weird looking runes. Fire patches from Elementalists or Warriors will look somewhat different from a fire patch from a Guardian given that the Guardian's fire is blueish white, but still has a fairly obvious fiery effect to it.

 

This is actually a pretty decent quick reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrzwFP1vCag

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