Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by Cothor

WvW seems pointless really. The bonuses are not significant enough to care about.

spvp is pointless as the gear cannot be worn outside

Dungeons are pointless other than farming shards for crafting

It would seem there is no way to elevate yourself beyond others, there is no form of name recognition, no way to be known as the richest, best, etc. Just pointless content.

The graphics and questing system are very good, but once you hit 80 the game just comes to a halt. Perhaps I am missing something here?

Nope, not missing anything.  Basically you're 100% correct, its a game made for new age socialists who loathe the idea of putting in work towards something that would gain them any benefit over others.

Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)

Socialists? The point is that your personal skills should be more important than your gear, nothing else. It is called "fairness" and makes PvP a whole lot more interesting, unless of course you suck at playing but have plenty of patience.

The point of the game is to have fun.

I have to agree that there should be more ways to elevate the best players in PvP though, like putting up a statue of player of the month in Lions arch or something.

It is funny when people use " working hard " when talking about a video game.

I'd actually advise anyone who has a "powergrind at endgame" mindset (character progression, if you wish to call it) to simply stay away from GW2. You won't find anything to satisfy you here. This is a game where you build skins, not stats.

I see two main reasons to play GW2:

1.) Have fun. The original goal of playing a game, which was apparently diluted by MMORPGs.

2.) Look good. Don't expect a stat progression like most other MMOs. Like someone already said, if you're looking for recognition, show us that armor set.

I'm sure longetivity isn't an issue for the people who are satisfied with GW2's endgame design.

Originally posted by SQTO

It is funny when people use " working hard " when talking about a video game.

Only for post Wow players, some of us do remember when playing was a full time work with at least 8 hours a day put in to be acceptable.

Which funny enough is why I like GW 1 & 2.... I dont have time for M59 or EQ anymore.

Originally posted by neonaka

I think all of you are cry baby whiners.

GW2 has no content? GW2 has no character recognition?

GW2 has nothing to do end game?

 

If any of you can produce me a screenshot where you are standing with a full suit of the dungeon token armor on while holding a legendary weapon of your choice then everything you are complaining about is invalid in my eyes.

Not a single person in this entire thread has even began to scratch the surface on any of those goals. I know because the requirements for these items are on a scale of difficulty so insane that many will never see it.

Yet you want to sit around and say GW2 has no character recognition. The first time I see a player with the items I named above equipped I will personally send them a tell to ask where they are so I can come personally face to face tell them they are a bad ass and earned respect.

Now stop crying and go get "recognition" for your character.

Your missing the point, all these thing you mention do  not make your character/avatar advance or become stonger etc. It's all just cosmetic.

It's not about crying in fact  you have it all wrong. The cry babies are those that can't put effort into making their avatar stronger or better . The cry babies are the ones that want all classes to be balanced in all aspects and all gear of same type to have the same stats etc etc so it fair in pvp.

I'm sorry but i will not grind a dungeon becuase i want  my armor to match the color of my eyes or this one has spikes and that one doesn't, I will however grind a dungeon if it will give me better gear that will allow me to go pvp with a distinct advantage and make the "cry babies" cry . 

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by neonaka

I think all of you are cry baby whiners.

GW2 has no content? GW2 has no character recognition?

GW2 has nothing to do end game?

 

If any of you can produce me a screenshot where you are standing with a full suit of the dungeon token armor on while holding a legendary weapon of your choice then everything you are complaining about is invalid in my eyes.

Not a single person in this entire thread has even began to scratch the surface on any of those goals. I know because the requirements for these items are on a scale of difficulty so insane that many will never see it.

Yet you want to sit around and say GW2 has no character recognition. The first time I see a player with the items I named above equipped I will personally send them a tell to ask where they are so I can come personally face to face tell them they are a bad ass and earned respect.

Now stop crying and go get "recognition" for your character.

Your missing the point, all these thing you mention do  not make your character/avatar advance or become stonger etc. It's all just cosmetic.

 

It's not about crying in fact  you have it all wrong. The cry babies are those that can't put effort into making their avatar stronger or better . The cry babies are the ones that want all classes to be balanced in all aspects and all gear of same type to have the same stats etc etc so it fair in pvp.

I'm sorry but i will not grind a dungeon becuase i want  my armor to match the color of my eyes or this one has spikes and that one doesn't, I will however grind a dungeon if it will give me better gear that will allow me to go pvp with a distinct advantage and make the "cry babies" cry . 

Acutally this thread and your way of thinking would suggest that the real "cry babies" are the people that  get trashed in GW2 pvp, because they do not have the gear advantage that they are used to have in other MMOs, even though they are playing the game much more than people that are owning them...

I love it.

Originally posted by Cothor

Originally posted by SirFubar
From that point of view, playing any sort of video game is pointless too.

I disagree. In other MMOs you can be better than other players by obtaining the best gear and being able to accomplish things that are not possible for them. I want recognition, I want to be known as one of the best in some catagory. This game does not offer that, the game has absolutely no purpose at all. There is no benefit to being level 80 when you could just be level 10. This game is really confusing and it isn't looking like it will have a bright future.

Nice trolling. You got a few nibbles too.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Homitu
What's the point of Mario?

Hell! Let's just break out the ole Coleco Head to Head football and screw this whole MMORPG thing.

 

But what would be the point?  You can't get stats in that game that allow you to do things that other people playing that game cannot do, therefore, it has "no purpose at all."

Pretty sure with a name like "Guild Wars" any recognition received is going to be by a group effort such as the guild you're in and them becoming noteworthy.

Other than that, the point is to have fun. If you can only have fun by be singularly elevated above everyone else, then I can see your point.

Originally posted by vort3x

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by neonaka

I think all of you are cry baby whiners.

GW2 has no content? GW2 has no character recognition?

GW2 has nothing to do end game?

 

If any of you can produce me a screenshot where you are standing with a full suit of the dungeon token armor on while holding a legendary weapon of your choice then everything you are complaining about is invalid in my eyes.

Not a single person in this entire thread has even began to scratch the surface on any of those goals. I know because the requirements for these items are on a scale of difficulty so insane that many will never see it.

Yet you want to sit around and say GW2 has no character recognition. The first time I see a player with the items I named above equipped I will personally send them a tell to ask where they are so I can come personally face to face tell them they are a bad ass and earned respect.

Now stop crying and go get "recognition" for your character.

Your missing the point, all these thing you mention do  not make your character/avatar advance or become stonger etc. It's all just cosmetic.

 

It's not about crying in fact  you have it all wrong. The cry babies are those that can't put effort into making their avatar stronger or better . The cry babies are the ones that want all classes to be balanced in all aspects and all gear of same type to have the same stats etc etc so it fair in pvp.

I'm sorry but i will not grind a dungeon becuase i want  my armor to match the color of my eyes or this one has spikes and that one doesn't, I will however grind a dungeon if it will give me better gear that will allow me to go pvp with a distinct advantage and make the "cry babies" cry . 

Acutally this thread and your way of thinking would suggest that the real "cry babies" are the people that  get trashed in GW2 pvp, because they do not have the gear advantage that they are used to have in other MMOs, even though they are playing the game much more than people that are owning them...

I love it.

Not at all, those with skills and gear always win against those with skills and lesser gear thus endgame has an actual point.  I rather think those that are cry babaies are the ones that  don't want to putt any effort into staying competitive.  Think about it.

I don't think GW2 is a bad game it can be quite fun but i also don't think they designed the game so that poeple would stay but rather to play  in bursts, with extended periods of it sitting on your shelf collecting dust in between those bursts.

Mostly my post was to show the juvenile i quoted that  name calling can turn around and bite you in the  behind.

Heh one thing I see posted often is that the point of GW2 is to have fun. The thing about having fun is that "fun" isn't the same for all. So what we have here is one group calling the other group "whiners" and "cry babies" becuase their idea of fun is different and that is well silly.

The truth is both  views can be correct it just depends on which side you are viewing it from and then there those like me that can see both sides.

Originally posted by Cothor

WvW seems pointless really. The bonuses are not significant enough to care about.

spvp is pointless as the gear cannot be worn outside

Dungeons are pointless other than farming shards for crafting

It would seem there is no way to elevate yourself beyond others, there is no form of name recognition, no way to be known as the richest, best, etc. Just pointless content.

The graphics and questing system are very good, but once you hit 80 the game just comes to a halt. Perhaps I am missing something here?

lol... what's the point of any game?

In fact, by your logic, what is the point of life? You work, you eat, you shit, you sleep...

Sounds like you wanted to go full emo, /wrist and get it over with. Lol.

Its an interesting take the fanbois have taken on this argument.  The game clearly lacks a meaningful endgame.  All of a sudden this is the only mmorpg where its OK to not have a meaningful endgame.  Strange i know since i saw many gw2 defenders bashing other games for this reason.

Anyway..theres LOTS of mmorpgs that have meaningful endgames.  They give the player the chance to build a "legacy" within the game...kind of like being famous for being good ect.  This game lacks any real means to stand out in anything you do.

Theres the loot aspect thats missing...and thats fine...so long as theres some form of way to one up people...which drives motives of other people to achive that level of character progression.

Oh and my favorite is the "without gear the real pvpers shine" of whatever.  Well aside from a  risk free pvp enviroment...yeah i guess its a great day for the button macroers...but even then...theres really no way to stand out from the zerg.  And again, when people think themepark pvp with no risk seperates the good pvpers from the bad is hilarious...since i gurantee you not more than 10% of these hardcore instance battleground pvp pros would touch any game that put even the most easily obtainable items at risk in pvp.

To the people who are bored of a game with no meaningful endgame...dont worry...i suspect they will sell you one shortly for $60.  They would have to be retarded not to.

Its funny too...since lack of a fun and working endgame killed SWTOR....i guess ANET wont be risking that by not adding it...kind of like how they "innovated" the healer to the dustbin.

Character progression is the defining feature of an RPG. 

It would be weird to whine about non-existent progression in an FPS game, since the main difference between FPS or action game and RPG is that in action game or FPS your character is not defined / limited by stats and levels. 

Since this is a MMORPG forum, and not MMOFPS or MMOActionGame, it is perfectly logical that people complain about lack of character progression when the game is obviously almost totally lacking it.

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by vort3x

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by neonaka

I think all of you are cry baby whiners.

GW2 has no content? GW2 has no character recognition?

GW2 has nothing to do end game?

 

If any of you can produce me a screenshot where you are standing with a full suit of the dungeon token armor on while holding a legendary weapon of your choice then everything you are complaining about is invalid in my eyes.

Not a single person in this entire thread has even began to scratch the surface on any of those goals. I know because the requirements for these items are on a scale of difficulty so insane that many will never see it.

Yet you want to sit around and say GW2 has no character recognition. The first time I see a player with the items I named above equipped I will personally send them a tell to ask where they are so I can come personally face to face tell them they are a bad ass and earned respect.

Now stop crying and go get "recognition" for your character.

Your missing the point, all these thing you mention do  not make your character/avatar advance or become stonger etc. It's all just cosmetic.

 

It's not about crying in fact  you have it all wrong. The cry babies are those that can't put effort into making their avatar stronger or better . The cry babies are the ones that want all classes to be balanced in all aspects and all gear of same type to have the same stats etc etc so it fair in pvp.

I'm sorry but i will not grind a dungeon becuase i want  my armor to match the color of my eyes or this one has spikes and that one doesn't, I will however grind a dungeon if it will give me better gear that will allow me to go pvp with a distinct advantage and make the "cry babies" cry . 

Acutally this thread and your way of thinking would suggest that the real "cry babies" are the people that  get trashed in GW2 pvp, because they do not have the gear advantage that they are used to have in other MMOs, even though they are playing the game much more than people that are owning them...

I love it.

Not at all, those with skills and gear always win against those with skills and lesser gear thus endgame has an actual point.  I rather think those that are cry babaies are the ones that  don't want to putt any effort into staying competitive.  Think about it.

 

I don't think GW2 is a bad game it can be quite fun but i also don't think they designed the game so that poeple would stay but rather to play  in bursts, with extended periods of it sitting on your shelf collecting dust in between those bursts.

 

Mostly my post was to show the juvenile i quoted that  name calling can turn around and bite you in the  behind.

 

Heh one thing I see posted often is that the point of GW2 is to have fun. The thing about having fun is that "fun" isn't the same for all. So what we have here is one group calling the other group "whiners" and "cry babies" becuase their idea of fun is different and that is well silly.

The truth is both  views can be correct it just depends on which side you are viewing it from and then there those like me that can see both sides.

Well the real problem of most MMOs is that those with good gear and no skill win against those with skill and bad gear.

Or in other words, someone that invests 16 hours per day for playing will be the strongest, and someone that only has time to play 2-3 hours per day will be completely incompoetitive against him regardless of skill, so it's better to just quit playing...

Some of us have jobs, but would still like to enjoy a true competitive game where skill counts more than gear, where I don't get flamed by a kid that can play all night long and feels awesome about himself when he one-shots me with his wtfUberEpicLegendaryFierySwordOfNo-Life.

Originally posted by Thillian

Character progression is the defining feature of an RPG. 

It would be weird to whine about non-existent progression in an FPS game, since the main difference between FPS or action game and RPG is that in action game or FPS your character is not defined / limited by stats and levels. 

Since this is a MMORPG forum, and not MMOFPS or MMOActionGame, it is perfectly logical that people complain about lack of character progression when the game is obviously almost totally lacking it.

But doesn't character progression end anyway when there's no more skills to unlock, or nothing else for a character's self to "grow"? Are we counting continuous power acquisition through gear upgrades as character progression? I thought they're called gear progression. I thought raids were just slapped on by MMORPG devs in order to prolong content before the arrival of the next expansion which will continue the actual character progression?

As far as character progression is concerned, GW2 has it. Even as a player reaches 80 it is still possible to earn Skill Points so the character can "grow".

Originally posted by vort3x

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by vort3x

Originally posted by Asm0deus

Originally posted by neonaka

I think all of you are cry baby whiners.

GW2 has no content? GW2 has no character recognition?

GW2 has nothing to do end game?

 

If any of you can produce me a screenshot where you are standing with a full suit of the dungeon token armor on while holding a legendary weapon of your choice then everything you are complaining about is invalid in my eyes.

Not a single person in this entire thread has even began to scratch the surface on any of those goals. I know because the requirements for these items are on a scale of difficulty so insane that many will never see it.

Yet you want to sit around and say GW2 has no character recognition. The first time I see a player with the items I named above equipped I will personally send them a tell to ask where they are so I can come personally face to face tell them they are a bad ass and earned respect.

Now stop crying and go get "recognition" for your character.

Your missing the point, all these thing you mention do  not make your character/avatar advance or become stonger etc. It's all just cosmetic.

 

It's not about crying in fact  you have it all wrong. The cry babies are those that can't put effort into making their avatar stronger or better . The cry babies are the ones that want all classes to be balanced in all aspects and all gear of same type to have the same stats etc etc so it fair in pvp.

I'm sorry but i will not grind a dungeon becuase i want  my armor to match the color of my eyes or this one has spikes and that one doesn't, I will however grind a dungeon if it will give me better gear that will allow me to go pvp with a distinct advantage and make the "cry babies" cry . 

Acutally this thread and your way of thinking would suggest that the real "cry babies" are the people that  get trashed in GW2 pvp, because they do not have the gear advantage that they are used to have in other MMOs, even though they are playing the game much more than people that are owning them...

I love it.

Not at all, those with skills and gear always win against those with skills and lesser gear thus endgame has an actual point.  I rather think those that are cry babaies are the ones that  don't want to putt any effort into staying competitive.  Think about it.

 

I don't think GW2 is a bad game it can be quite fun but i also don't think they designed the game so that poeple would stay but rather to play  in bursts, with extended periods of it sitting on your shelf collecting dust in between those bursts.

 

Mostly my post was to show the juvenile i quoted that  name calling can turn around and bite you in the  behind.

 

Heh one thing I see posted often is that the point of GW2 is to have fun. The thing about having fun is that "fun" isn't the same for all. So what we have here is one group calling the other group "whiners" and "cry babies" becuase their idea of fun is different and that is well silly.

The truth is both  views can be correct it just depends on which side you are viewing it from and then there those like me that can see both sides.

Well the real problem of most MMOs is that those with good gear and no skill win against those with skill and bad gear.

 

Or in other words, someone that invests 16 hours per day for playing will be the strongest, and someone that only has time to play 2-3 hours per day will be completely incompoetitive against him regardless of skill, so it's better to just quit playing...

 

Some of us have jobs, but would still like to enjoy a true competitive game where skill counts more than gear, where I don't get flamed by a kid that can play all night long and feels awesome about himself when he one-shots me with his wtfUberEpicLegendaryFierySwordOfNo-Life.

I was hoping someone would say this, not in all games.  In most it just means it takes you longer to get that good gear and be effective at higher levels but if you have lesser gear but better skills you will win again someone with lesser skills but  better gear.  If your skill are to close the gear will decide. I have a job too and there's no need to play for 16 hours a day. It just means when new stuff comes out you will be at a disadvantage for awhile.

This lets people stand out and gives meaning to endgame. 

As to the level difference I'm sorry but a level one should not  be on par with a maxed level character.  That's like saying my 3 year old that just learned to kick a soccer ball should be on par with an adult that's been kicking one around for 15 years on the soccer field.

Also gear progression is PART of character progression even if some would like to think otherwise.

---

Originally posted by vort3x
Well the real problem of most MMOs is that those with good gear and no skill win against those with skill and bad gear.

 

Or in other words, someone that invests 16 hours per day for playing will be the strongest, and someone that only has time to play 2-3 hours per day will be completely incompoetitive against him regardless of skill, so it's better to just quit playing...

 

Some of us have jobs, but would still like to enjoy a true competitive game where skill counts more than gear, where I don't get flamed by a kid that can play all night long and feels awesome about himself when he one-shots me with his wtfUberEpicLegendaryFierySwordOfNo-Life.

---

Someone who plays more than you will most likely beat you. Even if the gear is the same. I don't get this argument that you can play a couple hours and be competitive just because there is no gear discrepancy. Unless the combat system is shallow, you're not going to beat someone who plays more than you. You will be at work, and the guys that owned you in every other mmo will be getting better at this one. The only thing you will be able to take away from your beatings is that these guys are truly better than you and you can no longer use gear as an excuse for getting stomped. Of course thats all moot if the combat system is shallow. Then everyone can master it, hardcore or not, and be on an even playing field in that regard as well.

Originally posted by redman875

Its an interesting take the fanbois have taken on this argument.  The game clearly lacks a meaningful endgame.  All of a sudden this is the only mmorpg where its OK to not have a meaningful endgame.  Strange i know since i saw many gw2 defenders bashing other games for this reason.

Anyway..theres LOTS of mmorpgs that have meaningful endgames.  They give the player the chance to build a "legacy" within the game...kind of like being famous for being good ect.  This game lacks any real means to stand out in anything you do.

Theres the loot aspect thats missing...and thats fine...so long as theres some form of way to one up people...which drives motives of other people to achive that level of character progression.

Oh and my favorite is the "without gear the real pvpers shine" of whatever.  Well aside from a  risk free pvp enviroment...yeah i guess its a great day for the button macroers...but even then...theres really no way to stand out from the zerg.  And again, when people think themepark pvp with no risk seperates the good pvpers from the bad is hilarious...since i gurantee you not more than 10% of these hardcore instance battleground pvp pros would touch any game that put even the most easily obtainable items at risk in pvp.

 

To the people who are bored of a game with no meaningful endgame...dont worry...i suspect they will sell you one shortly for $60.  They would have to be retarded not to.

Its funny too...since lack of a fun and working endgame killed SWTOR....i guess ANET wont be risking that by not adding it...kind of like how they "innovated" the healer to the dustbin.

well said lad

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by Thillian

Character progression is the defining feature of an RPG. 

It would be weird to whine about non-existent progression in an FPS game, since the main difference between FPS or action game and RPG is that in action game or FPS your character is not defined / limited by stats and levels. 

Since this is a MMORPG forum, and not MMOFPS or MMOActionGame, it is perfectly logical that people complain about lack of character progression when the game is obviously almost totally lacking it.

But doesn't character progression end anyway when there's no more skills to unlock, or nothing else for a character's self to "grow"? Are we counting continuous power acquisition through gear upgrades as character progression? I thought they're called gear progression. I thought raids were just slapped on by MMORPG devs in order to prolong content before the arrival of the next expansion which will continue the actual character progression?

As far as character progression is concerned, GW2 has it. Even as a player reaches 80 it is still possible to earn Skill Points so the character can "grow".

What game are you talking about, if you're talking about gear progression? And yes, even gear progression counts as character progression.

Anyway, MMORPGs I play either have no level cap or have AA system in place (Alternate Advancement), which makes your character earn special XP points, which further specializes your character even when he's already at "max" level.

GW2 doesn't have a reasonable character progression even if it has 80 levels. Since the content scales to you, your character is not really improving compared to the environment. The feeling of progression is basically killed. People that like shooters or action games with constant difficulty might like it, I hate it.

Originally posted by redman875

The game clearly lacks a meaningful endgame.  All of a sudden this is the only mmorpg where its OK to not have a meaningful endgame.  Strange i know since i saw many gw2 defenders bashing other games for this reason.

 

Not really.

SWG Pre-NGE doesn't have an endgame

Darkfall doesn't have an endgame

APB doesn't have an endgame

DAoC doesn't have an endgame

EVE Online doesn't have an endgame

In fact, which mmo really has an "meaningful endgame"? Even in WoW, you get to best gear, new gear comes out, you gotta grind again. That's not meaningful - that's just a "materialistic top tier", as opposed to the games above, which is "power-based" or "political top tier", and definitely more meaningful than gear-based.

No MMO is supposed to have an "endgame", because it is perpetual and persistent. If you want it to "end", play Dragon Age, that ends.