Originally posted by Khebeln

Ok, if you want to play that game. I got every lv 80 pve set, CoF set twice for the skins, and a lot of weapons models. Do the math yourself. I took month off from work for Gw2 release. My statement is still valid. Thats hundreths of dungeons runs.

And yet you didn't notice you can respec all your traits for the small sum of 3s50c at any trainer of your class, as much as you want to, without any limitation or price increase.

Originally posted by Khebeln
I agree some encounters where fun, but only with everyone in best posible pve gear/triat setup (and the lack of switching builds is NOT helping, you can either only do PVE or PVE you cant do both)

But whatever... too tired to keep arguing on such stuff - have fun :)

...So this thread basically boils down to this statement: "Dungeons suck because they are difficult."

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe your build/groups build just isn't cutting it for the dungeon? That maybe you and your other group members aren't playing properly for the build you have chosen? So what if CC only lasts 3 seconds. That 3 seconds may be enough time to quickly heal a downed player. CC isn't suppose to be the end all be all of this game. 

Adapt your playstyle to the game, stop demanding the game to adapt to your play style. If you want to go back to trinity system, then by all means do it. GW2 will not head in that direction, and the devs are adament in their decisions to not nerf dungeons (only buff them).

Actually I agree with him, but not for the lack of trinity thing. I've been talking about how hard the dungeons are since the betas and all I ever got in response was "play better" or "you just need a coordinated team". Despite that, they're half right; if people are all playing at the top of their game, you'll make it through. But there's a LOT of frustration along the way in terms of learning experience and even then, it really only takes one fuck up to ruin the party for the rest of the group. The dungeons run along the same elitist vein as structured PvP, which is why I ignore them.

Ran story modes of all of them (which are all relatively easy) then crafted myself full exotic gear (including secondary weapon and accessories at this point). Now I have no need of the dungeons, and that works fine for me. This has been and - if the recent dev letter is any indication - always will be the weakest point of Guild Wars 2 for me, and the only content I go out of my way to avoid.

A few suggestions:

1. Gear. Always have updated gear, preferably gold (or if possible at your level orange). People complain and say that you shouldnt be forced to gear up for dungeons before max level but for us that play a while it is not so strange, and GW2 have a different view on "endgame" than Wow.

2. Speccs. Get the right skills, particularly condition removals help a lot. Also put points in at least one defensive tree. Put in some skills your teammates can combo with.

3. Teamwork. None trinity combat needs a lot of this or you will die all the time. Work together, get in combos and shift kiteing between several members. And while ANET say you can complete a dungeon with 5 of the same class a bit of variety helps and make things easier.

Vent, Xfire or Skype (whatever you prefer) for teamspeak also makes things a lot easier.

There is strategy, but it is a bit more subtile than in tank and spank. Training will help.

Originally posted by Aerowyn
gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

Yeap combo fields is a massive mechanic in this game.

Combo fields can heal or protect the crap out of the players. Blindness and confusion is also a massive mechanic that got overlooked by many players because blindness actually allows for avoidance tanking as the mobs can not hit you when blinded. The condition removal effects from healing combo fields also saves lives. Poison and fire fields can effectively double your damage because of the DoTs. Invis from smoke fields - enough said.

These are big mechanic because in this game, even most bosses can not avoid them.

I can tell a lot of players don't even use them by playing side by side with them.

They are a big deal. Probably a bigger deal than what you traits and what skills you have ready (I don't feel traits changes a fight much and are a lot more straightforward in choices, comparison).

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by Aerowyn
gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

Yeap combo fields is a massive mechanic in this game.

Combo fields can heal or protect the crap out of the players. Blindness and confusion is also a massive mechanic that got overlooked by many players because blindness actually allows for avoidance tanking as the mobs can not hit you when blinded. The condition removal effects from healing combo fields also saves lives. Poison and fire fields can effectively double your damage because of the DoTs. Invis from smoke fields - enough said.

These are big mechanic because in this game, even most bosses can not avoid them.

I can tell a lot of players don't even use them by playing side by side with them.

They are a big deal. Probably a bigger deal than what you traits and what skills you have ready (I don't feel traits changes a fight much and are a lot more straightforward in choices, comparison).

As a thief I always have my shortbow and spam blind and area weakness. Does great at improving survivablity of the folks that go in for melee. Some times if we go into an encounter that has a lot of adds I'll switch my elite to thieves guild and one of my normal utility skills to ambush trap. Gives the adds 3 more targets to chew on and gives the party enough time to deal with them.

P.S. Thief minion master build? Thats weird Anet. Just weird.

Originally posted by Loke666

A few suggestions:

1. Gear. Always have updated gear, preferably gold (or if possible at your level orange). People complain and say that you shouldnt be forced to gear up for dungeons before max level but for us that play a while it is not so strange, and GW2 have a different view on "endgame" than Wow.

2. Speccs. Get the right skills, particularly condition removals help a lot. Also put points in at least one defensive tree. Put in some skills your teammates can combo with.

3. Teamwork. None trinity combat needs a lot of this or you will die all the time. Work together, get in combos and shift kiteing between several members. And while ANET say you can complete a dungeon with 5 of the same class a bit of variety helps and make things easier.

Vent, Xfire or Skype (whatever you prefer) for teamspeak also makes things a lot easier.

There is strategy, but it is a bit more subtile than in tank and spank. Training will help.

1. Thats kinda werid since GW2 was suppose to promote the whole no gear grind thing, but general mmorpgs rules wise go makes sense.

2. That could be hard unless your going with people you know, which kinda make PUGs suffer which isn't exactly a good idea for a game focus on casual player.

3. Same as before, yes it works if the dungeon was like a hard mode or heroic dungeon meant to challenge player and woudl require player to have good team work, be on voice chat and such. But expecting everyone to do it speically pugs? Its pretty unreasonable to expect static team work from pugs, everyone has their own play style and spec and unless you run with people you know chance are your not going to know what build everyone is using and having to reorganize spec would take a lot of time that many pugs aren't willing to spend because well its freaken pug group.

...

CM is the easiest dungeon....

Also rez...May I say that GW2 is supposed to be the challenging content in the game? 

My experience was the same. I only did a dungeon once and din't even finished it. Even played with guild members.

The problem I had was I could not pull just one enemy, attack one and they all come.

But, I can't really judge the dungeons because I do not know enough of this game and it's mechanics yet. Which brings me to my point; this game needs more tutorial. I mean, how many players know about combo's?

Originally posted by rexzshadow

Originally posted by Loke666

A few suggestions:

1. Gear. Always have updated gear, preferably gold (or if possible at your level orange). People complain and say that you shouldnt be forced to gear up for dungeons before max level but for us that play a while it is not so strange, and GW2 have a different view on "endgame" than Wow.

2. Speccs. Get the right skills, particularly condition removals help a lot. Also put points in at least one defensive tree. Put in some skills your teammates can combo with.

3. Teamwork. None trinity combat needs a lot of this or you will die all the time. Work together, get in combos and shift kiteing between several members. And while ANET say you can complete a dungeon with 5 of the same class a bit of variety helps and make things easier.

Vent, Xfire or Skype (whatever you prefer) for teamspeak also makes things a lot easier.

There is strategy, but it is a bit more subtile than in tank and spank. Training will help.

1. Thats kinda werid since GW2 was suppose to promote the whole no gear grind thing, but general mmorpgs rules wise go makes sense.

2. That could be hard unless your going with people you know, which kinda make PUGs suffer which isn't exactly a good idea for a game focus on casual player.

3. Same as before, yes it works if the dungeon was like a hard mode or heroic dungeon meant to challenge player and woudl require player to have good team work, be on voice chat and such. But expecting everyone to do it speically pugs? Its pretty unreasonable to expect static team work from pugs, everyone has their own play style and spec and unless you run with people you know chance are your not going to know what build everyone is using and having to reorganize spec would take a lot of time that many pugs aren't willing to spend because well its freaken pug group.

1. Well, if you die alot gear is the easiest fix, you dont have to get it if you play well enough, but I dont and it doesnt seems like you do either. Just ttrying to be helpful and give you actually working advice here...

2 & 3. Dungeons are supposed to be the hardest PvE content, so if you PUG and want to do well you need to coordinate that PUG before playing, unless you are lucky and get good players with the right specc of course, but I doubt you always be lucky

Gear is the easiest way to improve your chanses with a PUG. And no, GW2 do have some gear grind, just a lot less than games with raiding since exotic gear is a lot easier to get than a few tiers up raid gear but anyone saying there is no gear grind whatsoever is either playing a lot better than me or lying.

Rare gear is not that expensive, just getting the cheapest for you current level (or up to 4 below it) from the TP helps a lot if you have no guildcrafter. Blue gear is vendortrash and green is just slightly better, people tend to forget this since they are used to other colorcodes.

Originally posted by Kumate

This game by far has blown me away in almost every category, the gameplay is fun and the world is bueatiful.  The Dynamic events are a great way to level because there is no go fletch quest hubs and so on, but last night I tried a dungeon for the first time.

I was a a level 50 Ranger doing a level 40 CM story mode.  I had heard the horror stories of how unorganized, zerg fest they were but I kept telling myself I've played MMO's for so long that it can't be that bad.  It was, the lack of a trinity was clear right away.

When entering the zone we started thru the story.  First mob is a Golem, solo, and didn't go to bad.  One death by a warrior but we got him up fast.  I'm thinking ok, not to shabby.  Second group of mobs is where it all went downhill.  Your first pull there is about 4-5 mobs.  Each one of them are "elite" which means even if all 5 of us are attacking it, it takes about 45-60 seconds to burn it down.  Except there is no way to do ANYTHING about the other 4 beating on you.  There is no tanking, no offtanking, no CC that is worth it.  Most CC in this game last 3 seconds maybe.  So needless to say, nearly every pull was a wipe.  We spent as much time rezing people as we did fighting.  

We beat the dungeon, but our strat was to all attack one mob, burn it down hopefully before we wiped, and come back and do it again.  We would burn the barrel placers first and so on. 

I know that CM was made harder recenetly, but this was just storymode.  I felt like I didn't learn anything from the story because I was to busy cringing at this system.  There was NOTHING FUN about this dungeon.  We also had a person quit and we had to replace them during this dungeon because he said (sorry guys..this dugeon system is horrible..I am going to uninstall). 

 

My character was setup for PVE and grouping.  I had healing spring with some points into healing, search and rescue to help with rezing and the healing spirit.  There was no way to heal thru that damage.  We also had a guardian and that helped some but just prolonged how long it took us to wipe. 

I miss my healers, tanks, and true CC.  I lost motivation to level now because I do enjoy PVE more then PVP and knowing that is all I have to look forward to in dungeons is quite dishearting.  I love every other aspect of this game, crafting, quest, pvp, graphics, but this is to core of a system for me to overlook.  There is a difference between core mehanics and difficulty.  The core mechanics on dungeons is just broke.  Even if they made it super easy and a zerg fest, there would still be no "skill" to the system.  It is either boring no pay attention killing, or just a wipe and res as fast as you can event.  I miss strategy.

 

Damn that sucks. Sorry to hear your experience was bad, but everytime I run dungeons in GW2 it is a different game each time because of the group members , which means it's a fresh experience each time and it's a blast , unlike the WoW Dungeons beat them in five minutes.

I remmeber the EQ dungeons back when they took sometimes hours to complete , what we have here folks is too many people who want it easy and the instant gratification that they long , I would suggest WoW and stay clear and far away from the dungeons in GW2 , there , that solves that problem, Next!

I'm surprised by the OP actually.

My first experience with CM story was at level 40...4/5 my group had never been there before. We had a Ranger, myself (Mesmer), my gf (Ele), a Thief, and an Engineer.

The first pull (the golem) was a nightmare. We aggroed before we were ready. We screwed up constantly. Accidently reset when it was at like 5% hp or less....finally killed it. After that the only CM vet (the Thief) took point, marking mobs and moving carefuly. The first boss after the golem gave us a couple deaths, but no real issues. The rest of teh place was a breeze. The final fight was almost a joke, it was so easy.

My opinion is that the problem isn't the lack of trinity, but rather the dungeons seem like they were designed FOR a trinity-type setup. The mobs hit my 10-levels over damamge sponge engineer like a truck, but I can usually dance around and survive. The people in my party who are running glass canon builds or anything other than vit/toughness heavy builds get creamed quickly and repeatedly.

The non-boss mobs in story mode  need to be recalibrated for inexperienced players who aren't used to combos, dynamic evasion, etc.

Originally posted by terrant

I'm surprised by the OP actually.

 

My first experience with CM story was at level 40...4/5 my group had never been there before. We had a Ranger, myself (Mesmer), my gf (Ele), a Thief, and an Engineer.

 

The first pull (the golem) was a nightmare. We aggroed before we were ready. We screwed up constantly. Accidently reset when it was at like 5% hp or less....finally killed it. After that the only CM vet (the Thief) took point, marking mobs and moving carefuly. The first boss after the golem gave us a couple deaths, but no real issues. The rest of teh place was a breeze. The final fight was almost a joke, it was so easy.

Which reminds me: "pulls" should not exist in MMORPGs for the same reason trinity is loathed: it is a stupid aggro-mechanic. You shouldn't be able to aggro a monster without aggroing all other of his allied ones in his vicinity. By vicinity, I mean every allied monster that is in range to see, hear or smell it. 

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by Aerowyn
gotta learn combo fields.. if you get a group together that knows how to utliize combo fields well dungeons can be a blast

Yeap combo fields is a massive mechanic in this game.

Combo fields can heal or protect the crap out of the players. Blindness and confusion is also a massive mechanic that got overlooked by many players because blindness actually allows for avoidance tanking as the mobs can not hit you when blinded. The condition removal effects from healing combo fields also saves lives. Poison and fire fields can effectively double your damage because of the DoTs. Invis from smoke fields - enough said.

These are big mechanic because in this game, even most bosses can not avoid them.

I can tell a lot of players don't even use them by playing side by side with them.

They are a big deal. Probably a bigger deal than what you traits and what skills you have ready (I don't feel traits changes a fight much and are a lot more straightforward in choices, comparison).

a lot of the issue seems to be up till you start doing dungeons many have no clue about the combo system or even how it works. If you read ANET dev diarys about dungeons they talk about how combo field use was in mind when designing the dungeons. So if you are going into them and not utilizing them you are at a pretty big dissadvantage.. Guess the game could use a better explanation of how they work but you always got good old youtube that covers anything you would  like to know about them.

today i ran my first dungeon in GW2.

my impressions are as follows - the dungeons are very very unforgiving :). overall they are great.

1. mobs are incredibly strong (impossibly strong) and it is wise not to pull more than one regular mob at a time as they can seriously screw with your group.

2. the mini-boss fights are fairly straight forward, while the boss fights are incredibly fun and well written.

- the dungeon system simply is a whole nother level than the rest of the game and i feel that most people will find them either too challenging or too time consuming, but they are great. and the action and complexity is something that could not have been achieved with a tank and spank system. 

complain: loot is not on par with the difficulty of the dungeon....  those dungeons need to re-think the loot, as it is not good enough for the difficulty of it all.

Originally posted by terrant

I'm surprised by the OP actually.

 

My first experience with CM story was at level 40...4/5 my group had never been there before. We had a Ranger, myself (Mesmer), my gf (Ele), a Thief, and an Engineer.

 

The first pull (the golem) was a nightmare. We aggroed before we were ready. We screwed up constantly. Accidently reset when it was at like 5% hp or less....finally killed it. After that the only CM vet (the Thief) took point, marking mobs and moving carefuly. The first boss after the golem gave us a couple deaths, but no real issues. The rest of teh place was a breeze. The final fight was almost a joke, it was so easy.

Posted this prior to going to work so just now seeing all the replies, thanks for the good feedback.  I will go into a bit more detail on some things thou.  First they just changed CM to make it harder a few days ago and I was talking about the current state of CM not the previous easier version I can not speak on.  

My issue is not that the content was hard.  I do not like easy games.  I also played EQ1 and loved fighting my way thru a dungeon to hold a camp spot for hours while having to be at your best to maintain pulling/exp.  My issue was that it was just a pure zerg fest with very little strat.  I understand combo fields and we did use them, (had a guardian and Ele), but that little extra fire/elec damage and that 3 second defense shield in the grand scheme of things was pretty worthless.

We did take our time and pull mobs together without rushing.  It didn't stop the mob from 1-2 shotting people.  It didn't stop the dogs from chain fearing us for 5-10 seconds.  Getting feared while someonething is doing damage to you is retarded.  Just to get out of it and not have enough time to hit your heal key before you are refeared.  All the time other mobs are dropping barrels on the ground that exploded that you can't aviod because you are feared.  Our CC's are no where near as useful on them. 

The mobs do way more damage then we can heal/block thru.  The mobs aggro all over the place so kitting is hard to do when they just turn and run a different way.  Also rezing in combat takes a long time and normally we just get both of ourselves killed the process.  There is no strat.  The mobs are all random and do random stuff every time.  Sometimes my bear pet goes in and last for 30 seconds on the boss, the next time hes dead in 2 hits.  I would like to feel that I can control the outcome of a fight with atleast some skill level.  I want to feel that if I put in the practice and time it will get easier.   I like to know I am improving.  All in all, it just wasnt fun.  

Originally posted by xm522

today i ran my first dungeon in GW2.

my impressions are as follows - the dungeons are very very unforgiving :). overall they are great.

1. mobs are incredibly strong (impossibly strong) and it is wise not to pull more than one regular mob at a time as they can seriously screw with your group.

2. the mini-boss fights are fairly straight forward, while the boss fights are incredibly fun and well written.

- the dungeon system simply is a whole nother level than the rest of the game and i feel that most people will find them either too challenging or too time consuming, but they are great. and the action and complexity is something that could not have been achieved with a tank and spank system. 

complain: loot is not on par with the difficulty of the dungeon....  those dungeons need to re-think the loot, as it is not good enough for the difficulty of it all.

Every boss in CM was tank and spank.  How is that well written?  Also you pull all the mobs, there is no way to pull *just one*.