Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by Caldrin

Well they sold millions of copies.. and i guess the polulation is pretty stable now..

What would make it a sccess or failure in your eyes ?

 

 

I think it's something like 2.5 mil copies sold.  Which seems good until you remember they spent something like 150 million dollars on advertising and so the copies sold would maybe have made half that back(if they were lucky) and that doesn't include develpment costs and license fee etc..  With that amount poured into advertising they really were expecting much more in the way of sales.

Retail sale of the boxed game generally sees about a quarter of the shelf price wind up in the publishers cofers, not the whole $60. That's left out of a lot of rosy maths.

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
Really??????

Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

Define success. And which game by you since 2004 is real success apart that one? Btw, you would be very disturbed in case swtor would be success even by your standards?

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
Really??????

Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

For me it was a success for my expectations. I wanted a solo oriented MMO with a SW story. I got that. Because I played through the stories while still crafting, buying and selling and grouping for Heroics or just with others in the same place as me so we didn't fight each other for objectives. But the game failed expectations overall from both fans and investers.

The game will not die, it will continue for a few more years at least. It will be fun for someone like myself who is looking for this type of story driven gameplay. And it will be great with the F2P because I can get that without having to pay monthly. What they need to do is embrace the solo/heroic story and add new planets with a lot of content to buy once it goes F2P. Instead of Operation content, but they seem to be stuck with the current users wanting more ops.

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
Really??????

Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

For me it was a success for my expectations. I wanted a solo oriented MMO with a SW story. I got that. Because I played through the stories while still crafting, buying and selling and grouping for Heroics or just with others in the same place as me so we didn't fight each other for objectives. But the game failed expectations overall from both fans and investers.

 

The game will not die, it will continue for a few more years at least. It will be fun for someone like myself who is looking for this type of story driven gameplay. And it will be great with the F2P because I can get that without having to pay monthly. What they need to do is embrace the solo/heroic story and add new planets with a lot of content to buy once it goes F2P. Instead of Operation content, but they seem to be stuck with the current users wanting more ops.

Well, myself would never ever play game that I can not (mostly) solo. Period. I have a job, kids are grown but I have other things to attend to. An because of my job I can hardly plan when to play. I already play however to much. :-) So I never have found any fun in lfg-in for 2 hours just to had to go to sleep or to work at time when group was found. Never found any joy being unable to progress because of requirement of group for quest I wanted to to at 3 at night.

I dare to say that group ONLY games (i mean forced gruping games) are DEAD. No ressurection available. No game today can have any success if not SOLO friendly. Hardly can come to my mind any game other then FF XI online where there is FORCED grouping and it is still alive. Ok, exception are very rare pvp only games with little or no questing at all. But that is exception.

So gaming industry have simply followed flow of money.

And really wondering when somebody says that SWTOR is solo game, if he/she have actually played at all. Because as I KNOW after 7 to 8 months playing it without interruptions that SWTOR can be soloed (as much as any other game with exception of FF XI) but also that one can level without single solo action (only mondatory for game progress are class quests that are solo). There are so many group possibilities that is just choice. Do not blame game if nobody want to use this choice.

As I already repeated many times, SWTOR for me is best, most fun and complex game ever. I must however add that I could not care less for pvp and end game that I currently do. Second is WOW. Third ... well ... I guess Rift but GW2 aproaching very fast for fun and a lot of candy factor.

So l sets say the game has 500k to 750k subs, sure that would make it successful if not for the outrageously huge budget spent on the game, lets not forget how many of the 2.4 million sold are actual retail boxes and not from Origin through DL so you simply cant average $60x2.4mil as actual retailers do not sell at cost and with the CE,DE we may never know how much of the development cost was recouped with sales.

Lets look at EVE for a sec compared to TOR, EVE has what about 350k-400k and for the most part the game is just a sandbox with over 7000 instances(each system is an instance dont be fooled but its a great illusion), complex player drivin economy, player control sov system ect ect, despite this its monthly operating costs are pretty low, and they dont need an army of devs trying to spoon feed content to the hungry babies, and plus the sub numbers are slowly rising again so good for them.

CCP/EVE in reality are a huge success, It may be a niche game but what CCP has essentially  done is own a Major League Baseball team and play its players(operating costs) the league minimum and still end every season above .500, and make a play off run from time to time. TOR on the other hand payed Yankee type of cash and if they are lucky get in as a wild card and get blown out in the first series every time in a weak division.

If you go back and read all the old quotes from the TOR team they had big plans to continue a short fast developement cycle with huge updates, not to layoff. The VO story was a high risk venture that did not pay off and i doubt they will continue to expand on it, plus i could go on forever how dysfuntional the game is, everything from OPVP, engine, bug busting, art design the list is to long to go on.

I say its a huge falure just by budget alone but then you also add quality of final product, and actual game features, there is no way this game could have succeeded...And yes the bar was set pretty high as it was Star Wars and I honestly feel that the 2.4 million boxes sold needed to cross over to subs and build the game from there, but that did not happen they went the other way and i would bet the whole development proccess and ideas have changed and everything that was promised about the only selling point of the game (story and a Star Wars type of world) wont ever be touched as they turn this into the most expensive mini game lobby to date with the inevitably of it eventually going P2W.

In the end the biggest falure is what Bioware/EA has done to Star Wars fans around the world we are stuck with this piece of garbage of a game with an inept dev team, producers and Im pretty sure we wont get another one despite the fact there is a huge demand for a good Star Wars MMO hopefully Lucasarts can see that someday and pull the trigger on this abomination. Its literally a tragedy what they have done to the Star Wars franchise and video games in general....

The only thing good that comes out of Texas is beef, and its pretty awesome beef but as for Video games.... Not so much Star Wars game #2 down the crapper with a bad case of e coli..

- Texas- killing Star Wars games since Combat Upgrade: April 27 2005.

Originally posted by JobeArthur

.....

Lets look at EVE for a sec compared to TOR, EVE has what about 350k-400k and for the most part the game is just a sandbox with over 7000 instances(each system is an instance dont be fooled but its a great illusion), complex player drivin economy, player control sov system ect ect, despite this its monthly operating costs are pretty low, and they dont need an army of devs trying to spoon feed content to the hungry babies, and plus the sub numbers are slowly rising again so good for them.

CCP/EVE in reality are a huge success, It may be a niche game but what CCP has essentially  done is own a Major League Baseball team and play its players(operating costs) the league minimum and still end every season above .500, and make a play off run from time to time. TOR on the other hand payed Yankee type of cash and if they are lucky get in as a wild card and get blown out in the first series every time in a weak division.

......

In the end the biggest falure is what Bioware/EA has done to Star Wars fans around the world we are stuck with this piece of garbage of a game with an inept dev team, producers and Im pretty sure we wont get another one despite the fact there is a huge demand for a good Star Wars MMO hopefully Lucasarts can see that someday and pull the trigger on this abomination. Its literally a tragedy what they have done to the Star Wars franchise and video games in general....

The only thing good that comes out of Texas is beef, and its pretty awesome beef but as for Video games.... Not so much Star Wars game #2 down the crapper with a bad case of e coli..

- Texas- killing Star Wars games since Combat Upgrade: April 27 2005.

EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. At least this is what I look besides exploring in any mmo. Empty space of nothing. Ok, tried 3 times as I remember, but never more then few days before got bored to death. I'm happy to those who enjoy but sincerely is impossible to compare EVE to any MMO by complexity, manpower and all the rest invested. But I'm happy for those who enjoy and hope stay for long as I hope for any game. I do not wish doom to any game. Behind every single game there is a team of people, many putting their heart in soul in. Even if I may dislike a lot game.

About "what they have done to SW..." I'm over 50 years now, whitnessed from first hand release even of 1st of SW movies ... SWTOR have incredible SW feeling, actually have been (and will still be, now I'm on short detour to play TSW, GW2, MOP, ...) enjoying every second just staying in game, even if only roaming around or staying on fleet station. Or encountering known characters. Or enjoying Tatooine or any other world.

Maybe stupid, but I plan to continue to pay sub for SWTOR despite will not play now for at least few months. I do not swim in money but I really love so much this game that this is my decision.

I hope for them more then for any game out there they stay for long, hoping for more of expansions.

I'm also absolutely pro for sub based mmo's as only this guarantee fresh money every month, sallaries for emploeeys, keeping servers healthy, keeping good support, ... and investing more money for future expansions. If there is no sub, game must make money from something else ... usually this "something else" become cash shops with items that are usually more then mondatory.

GW2 is actually first surprise of my life about quality of game that is P2P and where there I actually do not see any need to use cash shops if for vanity. Only expense that was mondatory for me was 30€ for 3 more slots so as altholic i can play all 8 professions. But at the end, people will have purchased all they wanted, there will be not so much new buyers for new copies of game, .... I just hope they will find enough money to continue this great game and prepare future expansions. GW2 is one of those rare games that would deserve to be sub based and where I would gladly pay.

EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

Originally posted by War_Admiral

EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

Tbh, this coming from someone who's played EVE for 6 months, EVE combat is just like a RTS with a single unit. The adrenaline you get from the fact you can lose your ship and such is nice, yes, but the combat itself is on the dull side unless you enjoy calculating distances and that stuff. And I like how you went into bashing other games when the person above specifically said not bashing. And here I thought EVE had a mature community.

Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by War_Admiral

EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

Tbh, this coming from someone who's played EVE for 6 months, EVE combat is just like a RTS with a single unit. The adrenaline you get from the fact you can lose your ship and such is nice, yes, but the combat itself is on the dull side unless you enjoy calculating distances and that stuff. And I like how you went into bashing other games when the person above specifically said not bashing. And here I thought EVE had a mature community.

I think the EVE community claims to be a lot of things, but mature isn't one of them. R.I.P. Vile Rat.

The game was a financial success probably. It seems like the box sales generated more than enough to cover its development expenses.

However, the game really thought they could hang on to players, enough so to be a contender as a AAA mmo and that goal was not met or ever will be. In that regard it failed.

Originally posted by War_Admiral

EVE? Not bashing it, but most boring game ever with no adrenaline action. 

Spoken like a true CAREBEAR!  Maybe undock in something other than a mining ship and acutally play the game or go back to playing WoW b/c the adrenaline rush is enough there to make you pass out.  I hear they have pandas playing the games now, should be right up your alley.

Wow, so anyone not likeing exactly the same game as you are a carebear?

For all we know he can be a Pre-trammel vet who thinks Eve is too carebearish (yeah, those actually exist).

Try to not insult anyone who isnt exactly agreeing with you, we are all MMO players and we all know that if you went to a party with just jocks and a really carebearish TOR player that would be the person you spoke most to (at least most likely).

Originally posted by ZigZags

The game was a financial success probably. It seems like the box sales generated more than enough to cover its development expenses.

However, the game really thought they could hang on to players, enough so to be a contender as a AAA mmo and that goal was not met or ever will be. In that regard it failed.

Actually, we are not 100% sure of that, particularly after counting away Lucas arts share.

EA have been rather quiet aboutr anything financial. In april they said the game would be back to 2 million steady subs at the end of the year and 3 million at the end of next year, while in early august they just said it went F2P with not much comments beside that all MMOs would be soon.

So it might have gotten EA back the money they put in, or not. Whatever the case it, that is not what EA consider "financial success" and I have to agree with them there. That is more "no total disaster"but people like EA dont put in money to break even, at least not on purpose.

I would say that you need to get in at least a few dollars for each one you put in to call something a financial successs. And if that would be the case they wouldnt have changed the model so soon, it is risky because it might turn away current players and there is really no guarantee yoyu get new ones so it is more of a last resort this early in a games lifespan.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by ZigZags

The game was a financial success probably. It seems like the box sales generated more than enough to cover its development expenses.

However, the game really thought they could hang on to players, enough so to be a contender as a AAA mmo and that goal was not met or ever will be. In that regard it failed.

Actually, we are not 100% sure of that, particularly after counting away Lucas arts share.

EA have been rather quiet aboutr anything financial. In april they said the game would be back to 2 million steady subs at the end of the year and 3 million at the end of next year, while in early august they just said it went F2P with not much comments beside that all MMOs would be soon.

So it might have gotten EA back the money they put in, or not. Whatever the case it, that is not what EA consider "financial success" and I have to agree with them there. That is more "no total disaster"but people like EA dont put in money to break even, at least not on purpose.

I would say that you need to get in at least a few dollars for each one you put in to call something a financial successs. And if that would be the case they wouldnt have changed the model so soon, it is risky because it might turn away current players and there is really no guarantee yoyu get new ones so it is more of a last resort this early in a games lifespan.

I'd be interested in a quote on that, or a video interview.  If you know of it, can you find it for us?

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Loke666

Actually, we are not 100% sure of that, particularly after counting away Lucas arts share.

EA have been rather quiet aboutr anything financial. In april they said the game would be back to 2 million steady subs at the end of the year and 3 million at the end of next year, while in early august they just said it went F2P with not much comments beside that all MMOs would be soon.

I'd be interested in a quote on that, or a video interview.  If you know of it, can you find it for us?

Hmm, cant find it right now but here is one from a month earlier when they assumed it would hit 2 millions in June: http://www.videogamer.com/pc/star_wars_the_old_republic/news/star_wars_the_old_republic_to_hit_2_million_subscribers_soon.html

I did not invent the thing, but lets to be safe say I accendently put it a month too late and the 2 million mark 6 months earlier (it is about the same level of disaster) unless someone else can find the friggin numbers, it was one of EAs analysts that put out the numbers in EAs april.

But whatever, lets just call that one "unconfirmed" here, my googling skills seems a bit off tonight.

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by Karahandras

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
Really??????

Just old of mild curiosity who(apart from the fanboys) is/are claiming it's a success?

For me it was a success for my expectations. I wanted a solo oriented MMO with a SW story. I got that. Because I played through the stories while still crafting, buying and selling and grouping for Heroics or just with others in the same place as me so we didn't fight each other for objectives. But the game failed expectations overall from both fans and investers.

 

The game will not die, it will continue for a few more years at least. It will be fun for someone like myself who is looking for this type of story driven gameplay. And it will be great with the F2P because I can get that without having to pay monthly. What they need to do is embrace the solo/heroic story and add new planets with a lot of content to buy once it goes F2P. Instead of Operation content, but they seem to be stuck with the current users wanting more ops.

Well, myself would never ever play game that I can not (mostly) solo. Period. I have a job, kids are grown but I have other things to attend to. An because of my job I can hardly plan when to play. I already play however to much. :-) So I never have found any fun in lfg-in for 2 hours just to had to go to sleep or to work at time when group was found. Never found any joy being unable to progress because of requirement of group for quest I wanted to to at 3 at night.

I dare to say that group ONLY games (i mean forced gruping games) are DEAD. No ressurection available. No game today can have any success if not SOLO friendly. Hardly can come to my mind any game other then FF XI online where there is FORCED grouping and it is still alive. Ok, exception are very rare pvp only games with little or no questing at all. But that is exception.

So gaming industry have simply followed flow of money.

And really wondering when somebody says that SWTOR is solo game, if he/she have actually played at all. Because as I KNOW after 7 to 8 months playing it without interruptions that SWTOR can be soloed (as much as any other game with exception of FF XI) but also that one can level without single solo action (only mondatory for game progress are class quests that are solo). There are so many group possibilities that is just choice. Do not blame game if nobody want to use this choice.

As I already repeated many times, SWTOR for me is best, most fun and complex game ever. I must however add that I could not care less for pvp and end game that I currently do. Second is WOW. Third ... well ... I guess Rift but GW2 aproaching very fast for fun and a lot of candy factor.

Well to people who ride bicycles mopeds are really fast and cool

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Loke666

Actually, we are not 100% sure of that, particularly after counting away Lucas arts share.

EA have been rather quiet aboutr anything financial. In april they said the game would be back to 2 million steady subs at the end of the year and 3 million at the end of next year, while in early august they just said it went F2P with not much comments beside that all MMOs would be soon.

I'd be interested in a quote on that, or a video interview.  If you know of it, can you find it for us?

Hmm, cant find it right now but here is one from a month earlier when they assumed it would hit 2 millions in June: http://www.videogamer.com/pc/star_wars_the_old_republic/news/star_wars_the_old_republic_to_hit_2_million_subscribers_soon.html

I did not invent the thing, but lets to be safe say I accendently put it a month too late and the 2 million mark 6 months earlier (it is about the same level of disaster) unless someone else can find the friggin numbers, it was one of EAs analysts that put out the numbers in EAs april.

But whatever, lets just call that one "unconfirmed" here, my googling skills seems a bit off tonight.

Ah OK, that was what an analyst said, not EA, in that example posted.  When you said "they" above in red, I thought you meant EA said that, which would be very newsworthy :-)

Analysts say all kinds of things, when they are right, they get better jobs .. when they are wrong they change names :P