Originally posted by Zylaxx
Any game which features FFA full loot PvP will always be a failure because its about as niche an audience as you can get.  This is the main reason why there isnt a AAA sandbox because they all follow this model.  Until a Dev team can implement a truely PvE sandbox exoerience then all sandboxes will fail.

Anyone dealing in absolutes will always be a moron. See what I did there? Most probably not...

Also you're flat out wrong. EvE is still alive and well after almost 10 years and Adventurine, as a previous poster pointed out, hasn't filed for bankrupcy, so how can you say they've failed?

You're right about FFA full loot PvP only appealing to a small crowd though and I hope it remains that way.

Originally posted by nondogg13
15x12=180 you can also pay for 6 months for 60 dollar so 120 a year. guildwars  made you buy a new expansion every 6 mounts each expansion totaling 60 dollars [mod edit] oh and guildwars 2 isn't a persistant sandbox world with open pvp and full loot, [mod edit]

Oh sweet, so DF:UW is going to give us an expantion the size of a GW expantion for that $60 every 6 months? Then yeah, sign me up. Or were you comparing getting the equivilant of another game for $60 to paying $60 every 6 months to continue playing the exact same thing? 

I have nothing against pay to play, but I couldn't let that asinine comparison go by without a word. 

Originally posted by khameleon

Darkfall 1 was a huge disappointment after we waited so many, many years for it. NOw I know we have no great MMORPG right now, but we do have good games such as GW2 with AAA graphics, sound and PVE. 

 

If a game with the quality of GW2 has no monthly fee, I know for sure very, very few people will pay a monthly fee for this game. It will have better quality, but I am certain it will still be full of problems and it will not have modern graphics compared to games such as GW2 and the rest of the new games.

Yea we all want PVP, sandbox, etc. but over $200 a year for games full of bugs and that are not AAA quality is not going to work.

Sounds to me BRAA that there's this little game that you might want to play instead, as a matter of fact you mention it not one, not two, but three times in your post.  So go play it.

We really dont need someone to tell us that DF is not GW2.  Every game will not suddenly be like GW2 because you think it should be.

EDIT: TLDR version -- MONTHLY FEE = GOGOGOGOGO*

*Assuming AV earns their pay and keeps the game updated with sandbox tools, debugged and exploit free.

Darkfall is still the best gaming experience I've ever had. I would never compare GW2 with DF. They are not at all alike and will definitely not attract a huge overlap of the same players.  After DF2 launches, there will be the usual massive influx of new players, then the QQ-ing will start, then after 2 or 3 months the core community will be left and people will come here and post how DF2 failed.

But DF2 will be fine. It will probably attract more people than DF did and retain a small number  more if it's done well. That part is still wait and see, of course. I don't know why, but I do have faith in AV.

Now about F2P, DF2 would be spectacularly successful if they made Dwarves the free race and you had to pay to unlock the awesomeness of Orks. Just kidding. I don't think F2P would work so well in a full-loot ffa pvp title. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to imagine there is a lot of stuff that people would buy that wouldn't become p2w unless it was cosmetic stuff. But why would you buy what can be taken? 

Maybe you could sell cosmetic armor plans for crafters who could learn them and then  be able to retain them.  Of course there is always bank tabs, and bag space you could sell, too, but if DF2 retains encumbrance, I don't think bag space is viable.  I think there are enough people who will pay a sub for DF to satisfy AV if they do their job right.

I heard there is also going to be a F2P version of DF in Asia.  I don't know much about that, but since I'm in Asia and latency is an issue in fps pvp games, I'd like to know.

Originally posted by nondogg13

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by nondogg13
15x12=180 you can also pay for 6 months for 60 dollar so 120 a year. guildwars  made you buy a new expansion every 6 mounts each expansion totaling 60 dollars [mod edit] oh and guildwars 2 isn't a persistant sandbox world with open pvp and full loot, [mod edit]

Oh sweet, so DF:UW is going to give us an expantion the size of a GW expantion for that $60 every 6 months? Then yeah, sign me up. Or were you comparing getting the equivilant of another game for $60 to paying $60 every 6 months to continue playing the exact same thing? 

 

I have nothing against pay to play, but I couldn't let that asinine comparison go by without a word. 

[mod edit]

monthly fee goes to the employees pocket and server cost. all changes to mobs, drops, skills, and most importantly constantly evolving pvp are a side effect.

Where GW will worry about the next ride for the theme park Darkfall will have to worry about its next sandbox play area. Same stuff different names here.

Suggestions are always taken into consideration regardless of games, if its a smart and needed idea then im sure it will go in. Not unique to Darkfall.

If Arenanet does 1 expansion a year or even 1 every 2 years(dont know yet) then it is cheaper than playing Darkfall.

People say 6 months sub is $60 = GW2 expansion probably 60 if 1 a year

1 every 2 years: darkfall $120 = Gw2 $60.

Please use spaces, helps to read and its just better.

Originally posted by nondogg13
15x12=180 you can also pay for 6 months for 60 dollar so 120 a year. guildwars  made you buy a new expansion every 6 mounts each expansion totaling 60 dollars so your argument is retarded. oh and guildwars 2 isn't a persistant sandbox world with open pvp and full loot, infact why are you even comparing a pussy ass game like guildwars2 to darkfall.

3 Expansions over 7+ years = every 6 months..... someone failed horribly in math class.

He isn't comparing the games, just the payment models. Pont is, if one game can do it, why not another? I think part of it is the popularity. DF dwindle down to a few thousand players, and many of those werent consistently active. Without subs, they would have no way of running the company. Even if they manage to climb back up to 50k or so players, losing that sub would still be hurting them pretty badly, especially since the game is designed the way it is and they wouldnt really be able to do a well functioning cash shop. Maybe they could do something like add the ability to bind gear to you so you cant lose it, but then you would have people raging theyre not getting loot from people. They certainly wouldnt be able to sell items / gear because nobody would keep paying for stuff theyre going to lose if they die.

Having a lower sub on the other hand might do them some good. Just dropping it down to $10/month or 6 months for $30-40 might draw some more people in and not only get their money but also keep more people playing longer due to the higher population making it mor einteresting.

Originally posted by nondogg13
15x12=180 you can also pay for 6 months for 60 dollar so 120 a year. guildwars  made you buy a new expansion every 6 mounts each expansion totaling 60 dollars so your argument is retarded. oh and guildwars 2 isn't a persistant sandbox world with open pvp and full loot, infact why are you even comparing a pussy ass game like guildwars2 to darkfall.

Oh aren't you just precious!

um april 2005 release.

next expantion 2006 april.

next expantion 2006 october.

next expansion 2007 august 10 months later.

then nothing from there on, well nothing of value that they could market and sell too you.

yeah i'll stay with p2p and the staffs that upkeep and change games, just look at lineage 2 p2p until like a year ago and they gave a major content update every 6 months. darkfall does about the same.

guildwars updates are driven by lore and storyline. darkfall is driven by changing mechanics to make the game play better(all though av is touting more lore driven content in uw lol).

oh and edit lol incase you were wondering thats 60+60+60+60 or 60 x 4 240  dollars in the span of what 2 years 4 mounts then you got nothing from there on. hmmm guess my math wasn't that far off :o

I think what people forget is that F2P or B2P in the long run actually ends up costing you more than P2P.  $15 a month isn't bad at all, and it can go down to $10 a month on some games, when you buy in bulk months. I pay a little less than $20 a month for both Rift and WoW from buying year at a time, and I still have founders pricing in Rift.  i can buy a year at a time, because I know I'm not really going to go to any other game for longer than a couple of months anyways.

As for F2P or B2P,  there's already people complaining about GW2 is making people buy from the store to be any good at WvW.  F2P has always been expensive.  I can remember back when MapleStory first came out, I probably spent about $1k on that game lol.  That's equal to about 100 months of WoW subscription, and I didn't play MapleStory longer than that.

It could be worse though.  Way back in the day in Neverwinter Nights, you had to pay for the time you were logged in...and that got expensive.  I'll happily pay my $20 a month for 2 games, as long as I'm having fun.

A small indie company that has less employees TOTAL than for example, Guild Wars 2 has as their story/lore writers. Besides, cash shop works in thempark games, it can NEVER work in sandbox, full-loot game, it automatically becomes pay-to-win.

I generally support F2P, but this is one game where it would simply not work and would have a negative effect on the game as a whole. It would be filled with hack-cheats and 12 year olds talking smack.

Id say in any case that darkfall beats gw2, its not about graphics, sounds and what not. Its about how well the game plays and i have to say darkfall had a tough start but its the only mmo i can play because everything else is simple not as good.

15$ a month???

15$ = lemonade stand, even 6 year olds can afford 15$ a month.

Originally posted by Gravarg

I think what people forget is that F2P or B2P in the long run actually ends up costing you more than P2P.  $15 a month isn't bad at all, and it can go down to $10 a month on some games, when you buy in bulk months. I pay a little less than $20 a month for both Rift and WoW from buying year at a time, and I still have founders pricing in Rift.  i can buy a year at a time, because I know I'm not really going to go to any other game for longer than a couple of months anyways.

 

As for F2P or B2P,  there's already people complaining about GW2 is making people buy from the store to be any good at WvW.  F2P has always been expensive.  I can remember back when MapleStory first came out, I probably spent about $1k on that game lol.  That's equal to about 100 months of WoW subscription, and I didn't play MapleStory longer than that.

 

It could be worse though.  Way back in the day in Neverwinter Nights, you had to pay for the time you were logged in...and that got expensive.  I'll happily pay my $20 a month for 2 games, as long as I'm having fun.

There is absolutely nothing in GW2 CS that makes one any more competitive in PvP.  Sure there is some boosters (which the advantage is highly debateable and neglible) if anything which even then one can buy with in game gold which is pretty easy to make.  Which unlike any other MMO that I know one one can buy CS currency with in game gold.  Sounds like these are just the bad players that will cry bout anything and ANet has the philosophy of being easily competitive.  People saying that you have to use the store to be any good at WvWvW and you're buying that?  Load of horse shit if I ever heard any.  There is nothing in the CS store that I can't buy with in game gold... so no B2P IS cheaper than P2P by far.

Now if you compared it to DDO then thats a whole different story as they nickle and dime you left n right.

Originally posted by Ginaz
Wow.  GW2 fans invading the Darkfall forums.  Now I've seen it all.

A real PvP focused game thats looking good would have them worried about their server pop's imo.

Not saying DFUH is going to be a multi million box selling monster on launch, but I can totally see it growing and growing like EVE did.

This new wave of ideas makes me very sad as a gamer.  ANet has you right where they want you. 

See my blog if you would like more of my opinion on this.

Best of luck.

Noobish attitude (without offense, ofc) of the thread-opener:

you can't compare themepark with sandbox, sorry

sandbox is antithesis of itemshop

freemium includes itemshop

sandbox won't be freemium

In this case Aventurine is an Indie-Company.

Yes go and tell them that you want to play their game without paying that bit (starter box costs even half of the other mmorpg ones...). Good luck :D

and last but not least: don't even compare a persistent world with 10K to 50K players (Eve Online, Darkfall, etc...)simultaniously playing on the same "let's say shard" and a persistent world where the max of simultaniously playing peeps is not bigger than 4K-6K (all the other mmos).

Regarding yourself:  You don't like it ? Fair enough. Don't buy it :D

full loot with itemshop cant work...

pvp skill based game with premium omg pls no....

and btw the monthly fee is 9$ atm maybe it will stay at this price