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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

PvP  » Rampant exploiting, cheating, and dirty tactics is killing the fun out of WvW.

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100 posts found
  drakaena

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 508

9/19/12 12:54:26 PM#61
If they're going to allow free realm transfers then a players rank should be wiped upon transfer. Or at least a significant penalty. Problem solved. I just thought of this solution after giving it minimal thought over the last 5 mins while procrastinating at work. The answer is Anet clearly doesn't care. Just like they didn't care that players were vocally against capture points in GW1 and much preferred a death match style PvP system. So what do they do... add four capture points to their new game. Capture points that are easily exploited. I've already been involved in swapping tounry wins. Sure there will always be exploits but these are so obvious that the only conclusion I can make is Anet simply could care less. You bought the game, it is what it is, if you leave now it doesn't matter because we got ours. Shocked at how bad PvP is in GW2. Shocked. 
  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1684

9/19/12 1:03:14 PM#62
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by AzurePrower

I asked the Guild Wars 2 support team directly about the issue. A copy paste of the OP.

This was their response:

 



Response [Representative name omitted] via Email 09/19/2012 08:48 AM
Hello,

 

Although it might be be bad sportsmanship, espionage and sabotage are legitimate tactics in any combat based game. We would not consider the use of these tactics to be a violation. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Take Care,
[Representative name omitted]
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com


 


Yeah...

Yeah sorry mate, but that is the dark side of competitve PVP endgame.

i think i'll be sticking to Eve after all, sounds too much like the GW2 W v W PvP is seriously not worth the time and effort.. Arenanet seriously need to do something about it.. though it does seem as though their hoping if they ignore it..  it won't exist..  epic fail.

 You are correct, the WvW seems to have very little point other then for people to do large scale pvp.

I actually found it funny while I was reading the OP's complaints, I kept thinking to myself that this guy would have a fit if he was playing EVE.  Everything the OP complained about are tactics used by corporations in EVE.  Spying and espionage are pretty much required tactics in large scale PvP if you want to hold sov in the EVE universe. 

What Ruin is doing in WvW are legitimate tactics.  There is no honor in war, and that's what WvW is supposed to be, war.  It's a little sad to see so many "PvPers" crying about perfectly valid tactics in a "PvP" game, tactics that they can just as easily employ and that Anet has specifically said are allowed.

Actually, the peopel in this thread sound exactly like the multitude of EVE players that continually post that CCP should change things in EVE so that the goons can't hold the sov we hold. 

There should be no crying about pvp in a pvp game.

There in ganking in a pvp game.

There is no crying about tactics that the devs say are legal in a pvp game.

If you're complaining about one of these three things in a pvp game, then you should probably think about playing something with structured PvP or no pvp at all.

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

9/19/12 1:08:46 PM#63

most of the tactics they employ seem legit...

camping the jumping puzzle to get free golems? that's a strategic resource dude, it's your fault for not securing it and using it yourself...

jeez, all the people complaining od wvw being a "zergfest" and now when folks start devising cunning strategies (personally i think their disinfo campaign is great) they get accused of "cheating." jeez get a grip.

i mean obvious cheats and stuff like spamming the chat should be sanctioned but whining about being spied upon and being naive enough to harbor a mole... jeez. what next? you'll be complaining someone ambushed you without first announcing his presence and intentions in a "fair" manner? WvW is about WAR and what makes wars so exciting is exactly the old addage "all is fair in love and war."

  gbooster

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/06
Posts: 716

9/19/12 1:12:44 PM#64
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

most of the tactics they employ seem legit...

camping the jumping puzzle to get free golems? that's a strategic resource dude, it's your fault for not securing it and using it yourself...

jeez, all the people complaining od wvw being a "zergfest" and now when folks start devising cunning strategies (personally i think their disinfo campaign is great) they get accused of "cheating." jeez get a grip.

I agree, the server hopping is kind of questionable. But free server hopping is going to be gone very soon anyway. After that, if somoene wants to buy a new account just to spread misinformation then more power to them!

I think it adds a bit of spice to the whole thing. Better than boring reptetiive zergs.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

9/19/12 1:29:23 PM#65
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Can't see the issue with rolling spy characters to check up on the enemy. That old chestnut has been used since time immemorial in mmos where there has been any kind of larger scale/factional pvp.

 

Some of the other stuff is a bit lame though.

 

1 or 2 rotten eggs in a basket isn't that bad but when most of the eggs in the basket is rotten then yes it's bad..

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

9/19/12 1:36:55 PM#66

 

This thread makes me glad that I loathe most PvP and happy that I didn't ever really intend to get into it in GW2.  For me, the game will "end" when I have a couple of characters to level 80 and maxed crafting.  Then I will wait for an expansion I suppose.  No crooked PvP for me.  I've thought the server hopping to be ignorant from the beginning.  What seriously is the point of even choosing a server when it's set up like this.  Idiocy, in my opinion, complete moronic bullshit.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3618

9/19/12 1:39:39 PM#67
Originally posted by Sideras
Yeah, like I said nothing wrong with the game. But players are complete shitheads these days.

     Don't the players/community ruin msot games nowadays??...Thats probably why so many people want to solo anymore.

  someforumguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3507

9/19/12 1:45:18 PM#68

I think they don't do anything about this, because the free server transfers are only temporary (I was kind of surprised that they were still active). They probably first want to see if it will settle down after the free transfers are gone.

I agree with the OP though, I don't like that kind of behaviour either. But I would never let it get to me this much. Maybe give WvWvW a rest untill free transfers are over? Or just try to be a little more mellow about it untill then.

  Random_mage

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 1161

9/20/12 12:25:58 PM#69
Its messed up that this is happening, but its the nature of the beast. If you dont like it, you can switch servers away from the problem.

Currently playing Real Life..

http://i36.tinypic.com/2uyod3k.gif

For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_

  dageeza

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 580

9/20/12 12:39:59 PM#70

Some are out to sabatage GW2 and anet is more than glad to accomadate them, i wonder how anet will kneejerk address this issue?

Probably by limiting each players time to 1 hour a day or punishing the winning team with diminishing returns per capture made..

Anet needs to ask themselves are we living up to our manifesto?

I would say not with recent changes..

Playing GW2..

  User Deleted
9/20/12 12:47:23 PM#71

Not going to waste my time in WvW when chealers and exploiters are allowed to continue and we aren't given a way to counter the exploiters.

 

1 less person in Queue I guess. So GG.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

9/20/12 1:22:47 PM#72

Espionage and sabotage are legitimate tactics... But only if they can be prevented. There's no friendly fire, and no way for your faction to prevent someone from chewing up resources or from stopping the spy from seeing your troop movements once he's been discovered.

Anets answer to OP was kind of a bullshit cop out.

  User Deleted
9/20/12 1:36:43 PM#73
Originally posted by rygard49

Espionage and sabotage are legitimate tactics... But only if they can be prevented. There's no friendly fire, and no way for your faction to prevent someone from chewing up resources or from stopping the spy from seeing your troop movements once he's been discovered.

Anets answer to OP was kind of a bullshit cop out.

You would think that the major amount of WvWvW pvp in terms of organization is done "in house" in guilds and alliances. If that is the case and you run a tight ship, it is not hard to prevent/dramatically reduce "spies" in terms of communication snoop.

 

Stopping them from using resources on the other hand when you can't smash them is another issue and is the problem with world pvp when you don't have FFA combined with factions. Ofc you can always just do the same to them and level it up.

  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 881

9/20/12 4:28:31 PM#74
Originally posted by AzurePrower

Not only do we have to deal with people using teleporting hacks we've been seeing lately.


We're having to put up with bad sportsmanship and cheesing of the game by things such as a dominant guild abusing free transfers to the server they are currently facing in WvW to spy to let their guild know where we are attacking, calling out false targets in map/team chat to confuse/lead us into an ambush, spam recruitment for their winning server/guild and even stop us from using our siege equipment.

Keep an eye on this Archaos guy and notice he is from the same guild as the ones dominating the WvW battlefield:

http://i.imgur.com/X6WXb.jpg

Recruitment spam:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/5487/gw036.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pGsdZ.jpg

Calling out false targets:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/5520/gw038.jpg

Using our siege and admitting in chat to preventing us from using it (and falsely accusing us of exploiting):

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/5650/ruintrebbing.jpg

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/5531/gw007.jpg

They even have the gall to post this video with Archaos in the video and as the main voice over:

http://youtu.be/z4ntkZC6RTg

 

Also if people are wondering where they are getting all those golems from. No they're not spending 1g a piece. You get them free from jumping puzzles, which they also camp and prevent any access to.


Updated with Guild Wars 2 support team response:

 



Response [Representative name omitted] via Email 09/19/2012 08:48 AM
Hello,

 

Although it might be be bad sportsmanship, espionage and sabotage are legitimate tactics in any combat based game. We would not consider the use of these tactics to be a violation. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Take Care,
[Representative name omitted]
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com



 

All's fair in love and war. once they turn off free server transfers this will be less of an issue

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

9/20/12 4:42:32 PM#75

I really don't consider spying, ambushing , espionage a bad thing. I mean jumping on a siege to prvent others from using it, sure I can see that as a little annoying. But being ambushed due to false targets etc... that is part of warfare. Your side can do the same thing as well, its not like its something only they can do.

If you want to pvp you have to expect dirty tactics , this may be a game but its a game simulating war between servers. If you don't want to see dirty tactics being used then I suggest you play PVE, PVP is all about defeating your enemy, not about defeating them honrably. If you want that then your in the wrong genre.

  Kiljaedenas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 467

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.

9/20/12 4:43:40 PM#76
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by AzurePrower

I asked the Guild Wars 2 support team directly about the issue. A copy paste of the OP.

This was their response:

 



Response [Representative name omitted] via Email 09/19/2012 08:48 AM
Hello,

 

Although it might be be bad sportsmanship, espionage and sabotage are legitimate tactics in any combat based game. We would not consider the use of these tactics to be a violation. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Take Care,
[Representative name omitted]
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com


 


Yeah...

Yeah sorry mate, but that is the dark side of competitve PVP endgame.

i think i'll be sticking to Eve after all, sounds too much like the GW2 W v W PvP is seriously not worth the time and effort.. Arenanet seriously need to do something about it.. though it does seem as though their hoping if they ignore it..  it won't exist..  epic fail.

 You are correct, the WvW seems to have very little point other then for people to do large scale pvp.

I actually found it funny while I was reading the OP's complaints, I kept thinking to myself that this guy would have a fit if he was playing EVE.  Everything the OP complained about are tactics used by corporations in EVE.  Spying and espionage are pretty much required tactics in large scale PvP if you want to hold sov in the EVE universe. 

What Ruin is doing in WvW are legitimate tactics.  There is no honor in war, and that's what WvW is supposed to be, war.  It's a little sad to see so many "PvPers" crying about perfectly valid tactics in a "PvP" game, tactics that they can just as easily employ and that Anet has specifically said are allowed.

Actually, the peopel in this thread sound exactly like the multitude of EVE players that continually post that CCP should change things in EVE so that the goons can't hold the sov we hold. 

There should be no crying about pvp in a pvp game.

There in ganking in a pvp game.

There is no crying about tactics that the devs say are legal in a pvp game.

If you're complaining about one of these three things in a pvp game, then you should probably think about playing something with structured PvP or no pvp at all.

Damn, you beat me to it, lol.

To the OP...dude, seriously? Instead of learning and developing the logistical skills/tactics that you could use to COMPLETELY COUNTER everything these guys are doing with spying, false target calling etc, you whine about it?

Never, ever try to get into Eve Online. Those guys will eat cornflakes out of your skull, and the whining would do nothing but irritate them and make them want to crush you over and over again.

Didn't it ever occur to anyone in GW2 that if someone goes up to a guild and says "Can I join?", before you say "Sure, come on in!" wouldn't it be a good idea to, you know, check out their background history first? Perhaps see if their prior guild is an upcoming direct opponent in WvW PvP?

The WvW of GW2 does have one thing going for it: it's one of a very tiny few MMOs that can have simultaneous PvP with numbers of players starting to approach those possible in Eve. When you get to a number of players that high, all of your standard tactics go out the window. You have to start thinking large-scale, logistics, espionage, the whole "information is ammunition" thing. Players in Eve have been doing that for nine years; they've built whole in-game universities around the logistics and tactics involved. Spying, theft, misinformation, treason, ambushes...all openly allowed, and they SHOULD be. That makes the whole experience much more engaging. And to be honest, it would not surprise me one bit if the main people using those exploits in GW2 were from Eve's Goonswarm Federation. They love to find the loopholes in other games occasionally (go look up the Bridge of Death for Star Trek Online and the information regarding DayZ servers having to be shut down quickly after Eve Online players showed up and hit it like a freight train).

Stop whining. Learn the tactics. Really think before you hit the OK button to let someone into your guild. You'll be a better general game player for it.

Where's the any key?

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1681

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

9/20/12 4:52:22 PM#77
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by AzurePrower

I asked the Guild Wars 2 support team directly about the issue. A copy paste of the OP.

This was their response:

 



Response [Representative name omitted] via Email 09/19/2012 08:48 AM
Hello,

 

Although it might be be bad sportsmanship, espionage and sabotage are legitimate tactics in any combat based game. We would not consider the use of these tactics to be a violation. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Take Care,
[Representative name omitted]
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com


 


Yeah...

Yeah sorry mate, but that is the dark side of competitve PVP endgame.

i think i'll be sticking to Eve after all, sounds too much like the GW2 W v W PvP is seriously not worth the time and effort.. Arenanet seriously need to do something about it.. though it does seem as though their hoping if they ignore it..  it won't exist..  epic fail.

 You are correct, the WvW seems to have very little point other then for people to do large scale pvp.

I actually found it funny while I was reading the OP's complaints, I kept thinking to myself that this guy would have a fit if he was playing EVE.  Everything the OP complained about are tactics used by corporations in EVE.  Spying and espionage are pretty much required tactics in large scale PvP if you want to hold sov in the EVE universe. 

What Ruin is doing in WvW are legitimate tactics.  There is no honor in war, and that's what WvW is supposed to be, war.  It's a little sad to see so many "PvPers" crying about perfectly valid tactics in a "PvP" game, tactics that they can just as easily employ and that Anet has specifically said are allowed.

Actually, the peopel in this thread sound exactly like the multitude of EVE players that continually post that CCP should change things in EVE so that the goons can't hold the sov we hold. 

There should be no crying about pvp in a pvp game.

There in ganking in a pvp game.

There is no crying about tactics that the devs say are legal in a pvp game.

If you're complaining about one of these three things in a pvp game, then you should probably think about playing something with structured PvP or no pvp at all.

Damn, you beat me to it, lol.

To the OP...dude, seriously? Instead of learning and developing the logistical skills/tactics that you could use to COMPLETELY COUNTER everything these guys are doing with spying, false target calling etc, you whine about it?

Never, ever try to get into Eve Online. Those guys will eat cornflakes out of your skull, and the whining would do nothing but irritate them and make them want to crush you over and over again.

Didn't it ever occur to anyone in GW2 that if someone goes up to a guild and says "Can I join?", before you say "Sure, come on in!" wouldn't it be a good idea to, you know, check out their background history first? Perhaps see if their prior guild is an upcoming direct opponent in WvW PvP?

The WvW of GW2 does have one thing going for it: it's one of a very tiny few MMOs that can have simultaneous PvP with numbers of players starting to approach those possible in Eve. When you get to a number of players that high, all of your standard tactics go out the window. You have to start thinking large-scale, logistics, espionage, the whole "information is ammunition" thing. Players in Eve have been doing that for nine years; they've built whole in-game universities around the logistics and tactics involved. Spying, theft, misinformation, treason, ambushes...all openly allowed, and they SHOULD be. That makes the whole experience much more engaging. And to be honest, it would not surprise me one bit if the main people using those exploits in GW2 were from Eve's Goonswarm Federation. They love to find the loopholes in other games occasionally (go look up the Bridge of Death for Star Trek Online and the information regarding DayZ servers having to be shut down quickly after Eve Online players showed up and hit it like a freight train).

Stop whining. Learn the tactics. Really think before you hit the OK button to let someone into your guild. You'll be a better general game player for it.

I agree with both your overall point's. But my problem is that there must be a game mechanic available to deal with a sabouture and or a spies. If they could come up with some sort of mechanic that could not be abused by people just trying to fuck some one over. It would make pvp that much better.

"If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  fennec12

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/07
Posts: 52

9/21/12 2:26:31 AM#78
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by AzurePrower



Response [Representative name omitted] via Email 09/19/2012 08:48 AM
Hello,

 

Although it might be be bad sportsmanship, espionage and sabotage are legitimate tactics in any combat based game. We would not consider the use of these tactics to be a violation. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Take Care,
[Representative name omitted]
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com


 

 

This is bullshit! If that's legit "tactic" then why the hell are you not able to gut that asshole preventing you from using the trebs? If spying and infiltrating is a legit tactic then there should be mechanics in-game to weed those fuckers out and make some heads roll. Gah makes me want to skip W v W untill the free transfer crap is over. This is like playing soccer but the enemy team can pull a net over their goal so your team has no way to score, fun times!

I agree with ANet on this. Spying IS a "legit" tactic. Well.. as legit as it is in the real world. And in the real world spies are killed or put in jail for life, so they can never do it again.

So if ANet accepts this as a legit method. Then WE also need oure legit methods of killing said spy (or prevent them from EVER "spying" again). 

I don't care how you do this. One way could be to report a player as a spy or via some kind of vote system kick a player. Now this will require a majority to succeed, or the "spy" wil simply abuse this to ban elite playes. A kick/ban/vote will include a ban for PvP/WvW for XX days (maybe a week). Repeated ban's will result in ban for life. And all these ban's is ofcause on account lvl. If one of your chars get a week's ban for spying, then ALL your chars are unable to do PvP/WvW.

  Gibbonici

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 466

9/21/12 8:02:49 AM#79
Don't allow transfers to servers your current server is WvWng against. Lock players out of WvW when their server is matched against one they previously transferred from. That should fix the exploits and also stop people transferring to the winning server in a match.

Free server transfers were always a bad idea.
  Vorch

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 809

9/21/12 8:08:01 AM#80

Server transfers are now once every 24 hours, which will help mitigate the issue, but won't solve it long term.

 

Once guesting is implemented, this crap won't happen NEARLY as often. Until then, it's just going to be a rough patch in the game.

 

You can make a patch that stops people from being dicks. People will always find a way.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

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