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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans-sexual (LGBT) - why is this a bad thing for guild formation?

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118 posts found
  avalon1000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 730

9/21/12 6:38:55 AM#81
I think people are getting fed up with the political correctness and there will be a backlash. Therre are storms on the horizon. I was thinking today about how absurd our society has become. The minority make the rules for the majority. We cave in to the screaming voices. But you can only push people so far.
  mikeoffy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/11
Posts: 28

9/21/12 6:39:03 AM#82
Well its clear now to many that the OP is trying hard to come out of the closet. Good for you just never thought anyone would use mmos to do it. Weird.
  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 2096

9/21/12 6:49:47 AM#83

I think the problem is/was how do you keep the öegit and get rid of the trolling ones. Especially as many games have rules agains harrasment it can be tricky if a guild stest them self up as a LGBT guild, but all they do is mock the legit LGBT community by only acting out the degrading stereotypes with the goal of bypassing the EULA and ToS.

 

It would be like having a guild called Cottonpickers south, an all black guild with a white GM who everybody must call mastha... So i can understand why there is some friction. But that being said most mature and sensible guild these days have no problem with the LGBT community and i have yet to be in a guild that made anyone feel unwelcome, no matter their sexuality, race och religious belife. But maybe i have just been lucky.

 

And it is a sensetive subject (that have been beaten to death) some people just don't like to have it showed in their face and others (for what ever reason make sense to them) feel that it is how things are supposed to be. This combined with the fact that i have seen both sides doing their best to get on the other sides nerves (yes that include  members of the LGBT community who, belive it or not have trolls too) and it might just be best to advertise them self as a non-judgemental guild instead of segregating them self by being a LGBT-only guild.

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19400

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/21/12 6:53:36 AM#84
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

LGBT Guild ? - Check

White only Guild ? - Check

Black only Guild ? - Check

Asian only Guild ? - Check

 

See the pattern here?

See the problem here?

25+ and older guild - Check

Women only guild - Check

French speaking only guild - Check

Russian only guild - Check.

Christian only guild - Check

Ex-military members only guild - Check

See, that's the funny thing, all of the guilds I've listed exist in modern MMO's, so we do discrimate as to what we permit in terms of segregating ourselves based on like interests. 

So it really comes down to what we segregate ourselves by, some criteria are acceptable, and some are not, requires the proper use of logic and reasoning to discern what is appropriate, and what is not.

And I suppose over time the criteria can change, what might be unacceptable today could be acceptable tomorrow.

Overall, I think sexual orientation/preference is one on the proscribed list, mostly because it opens the door to creating guilds based on other sexual preferences (the Golden Shower Clan) and that's just wrong.

Better to keep it out of gaming completely and make our lives a lot more simple.

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16816

9/21/12 6:57:48 AM#85
Originally posted by avalon1000
I think people are getting fed up with the political correctness and there will be a backlash. Therre are storms on the horizon. I was thinking today about how absurd our society has become. The minority make the rules for the majority. We cave in to the screaming voices. But you can only push people so far.

I think you are reading too much into this. Politics, religions and similar stuff just dont belong in games and as long as they are consequent there is no problem.

To ban someone because he or she is gay is seriously wrong and if a bunch of gay people who are friends play together that is no problem either. But just having guilds based on race, religion, sexual preferences or political view leads us fast to a very dark place.

There are great forums for that stuff instead and frankly are there better things to talk ingame then sex.  I dont want to see Christian guilds, Obama guilds or "white" guilds either. That stuff is private stuff that doesnt belong in public games.

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/21/12 7:14:44 AM#86
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

Was there a recent event that prompted this post?

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1139

9/21/12 7:17:36 AM#87

This is why minorities (sexual or racial) are discriminated.

They make a big fuzz about themselves and their beliefs.

 

But then again, they are free to invite people who they wish.

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 952

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

9/21/12 7:24:14 AM#88

Variety is the spice of life. People should be free to invite or exclude in social environments however they decide necesary, though I would hope we could all recognize that respecting anothers choice, regardless of individual judgement, gives us all something to share in common and brings us closer together.

 

<3

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  User Deleted
9/21/12 7:29:51 AM#89
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

This is why minorities (sexual or racial) are discriminated.

They make a big fuzz about themselves and their beliefs.

 

But then again, they are free to invite people who they wish.

You have that bit backwards. the reason we are loud is when people don't let us do what freedom lets all others do normally. not the other way around.

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/21/12 7:33:19 AM#90
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by GoldenArrow

This is why minorities (sexual or racial) are discriminated.

They make a big fuzz about themselves and their beliefs.

 

But then again, they are free to invite people who they wish.

You have that bit backwards. the reason we are loud is when people don't let us do what freedom lets all others do normally. not the other way around.

So, was there a recent event that prompted this post?

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  neorandom

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/08
Posts: 1753

9/21/12 7:33:52 AM#91
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

the only thing more annoying then the drama queens are the drama drag queens  HAH

 

its not biased when its true!

  User Deleted
9/21/12 7:34:18 AM#92

I didn't see a reply to the question, what prompted this OP. I have yet to read how lgbt were discriminated against in the gaming community and i read that news everyday

 

  User Deleted
9/21/12 7:35:55 AM#93
Originally posted by neorandom
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

the only thing more annoying then the drama queens are the drama drag queens  HAH

 

its not biased when its true!

hate to break it to you but there's another side of drag, it's the macho crowd and it exists in the straight male community too. :)

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

9/21/12 7:47:02 AM#94
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by avalon1000
I think people are getting fed up with the political correctness and there will be a backlash. Therre are storms on the horizon. I was thinking today about how absurd our society has become. The minority make the rules for the majority. We cave in to the screaming voices. But you can only push people so far.

I think you are reading too much into this. Politics, religions and similar stuff just dont belong in games and as long as they are consequent there is no problem.

To ban someone because he or she is gay is seriously wrong and if a bunch of gay people who are friends play together that is no problem either. But just having guilds based on race, religion, sexual preferences or political view leads us fast to a very dark place.

There are great forums for that stuff instead and frankly are there better things to talk ingame then sex.  I dont want to see Christian guilds, Obama guilds or "white" guilds either. That stuff is private stuff that doesnt belong in public games.

I think he meant in general and I agree, but that's a whole other discussion.

  User Deleted
9/21/12 7:50:04 AM#95

Can we let this poor horse rest in peace yet?

 

  Hell_Hammer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/12
Posts: 75

9/21/12 8:03:12 AM#96

I have no problem whatsoever with any sexual orientation, race, religion, gender. 

 

What I do have a problem with is when someone starts imposing those beliefs or ideas on me. 

I think that if someone wants to be treated equally he should not single himself out on purpose. To me, that seems just like wanting attention and acknowledgement for his "being different." 

This is an issue that is currently very active in my country, about gay pride parade and so on. I have no problem with homosexuals, absolutely none - but I do have a problem with organizing a parade. 

It is just a wrong strategy. If you want to show that you are "all equal" and "normal" you don't make a parade about it. That's just asking for attention in a very clumsy manner concerning a very serious issue. 

 

Same about any kind of "special treatment" for anyone, including game guilds.

How do you expect people to stop being intolerant, if you, a hypothetical part of a group that is considered a minority, purposely exclude and single yourself out in a "this kind of people ONLY" guild?

 

Someone mentioned that the majoritiy is being bullied by loud minorities, people being fed up with political correctness...I totally agree. In general, yes, that's a very serious problem and a rather strange paradox.

 

Some groups that feel they have lesser rights group up into guilds (or any real life equivalent, heh) and at the same time ask for equal treatment...while on the other hand refusing to give it to others and respect other opinions that might differ.

Any opinion or attitude that is not in line with this "tolerant" and "politically correct" behaviour is instantly branded as "hate speech, bigotry, intolerance, homophobia" whatever.

 

Silly world we live in.

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1947

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

9/21/12 8:23:22 AM#97
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

wow has a ESRB rating of 12+ or sth, right?

so obviously sex has nothing to do in a game suited for that age. and if you can't understand that, it doesnt matter which sex you prefer, you do something wrong.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Elsabolts

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 2692

Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It

9/21/12 8:28:53 AM#98
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

When I see you folks marching in the streets of Tehran Iran, I might pay alittle more attention. Acorrding to there leader ship there are no Sodimites in Iran.

  MortisRex

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/04
Posts: 367

9/21/12 8:30:28 AM#99
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

 

Just as a side note:

Wow at one time restricted and banned a player for advertising a LGBT guild, several years ago.  The uprise was immense, and Blizzard was faced with a cival lawsuit.  Blizzard appologized and "allowed" LGBT friendly guilds. http://kotaku.com/159536/blizzards-reaction-to-gay-guilds-an-unfortunate-mistake

I think the opposition is that the mentality is "It's not okay for you to exclude us from your heterosexual guilds, but it is okay for us to exclude you from our LGBT guilds". Why is it wrong for one group to discriminate but not another group? Excluding someone just because their sexual orientation is wrong. Do you really not understand the cognitive dissonance of what you're asking?

  gotha

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1045

9/21/12 8:34:34 AM#100
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by Karteli

We're all different, this much is clear.  But sometimes it's a hinderance, especially when it comes to forming a guild.

 

LGBT people want to form a guild exclusive to them, so what?  Why are so many opposed?  It doesn't affect them.

 

Wouldn't it help the community to gather like minded people together?

I can understand it-

Sexual Orientation and race and religion should not even be an issue with a Guild in any way shap[e or form.

Look, I cannot make a "Straights Only Guild" or a "Black Only Guild" and advertise it as such (obviously you can have anyone in your guild who you wish and could still make a Guild like such)- So whats good for the goose.

Its like Orwell said in Animal farm. "All Animals are equal but some Animals are MORE equal than others..." This is becopming the case. 

People play games to feel comfortable.  Normally gays have to keep a decent amount to themselves in the general public and when they play a game they want to be with a group they can relax with and not worry about blocking certain parts of their interest be cause the rest of the people are not like minded.  Given the number of half naked woman running around sexual orientation actually plays a large part in fantasy gaming so yes it is an issue.  You can pretend its not an issue but it will be for some high minded view of equality but it will be.

The issue with straight guilds is the fact most guilds on the outset are straight guilds.  The majority segmenting themselve from minority aspects of society normally blocks minorities from large parts of society.

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