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News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] Guild Wars 2: Review in Progress Part 4 - WvW

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63 posts found
  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

9/20/12 1:47:11 PM#21
Originally posted by lerwen
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by banshe13

WVW is no where near like DAOC RVR not in the least.

Do we have bard's  for group speed groups nope '

you have several classes that can provide full AOE speed buffs

 full aoe speed buffs that last 5sec yup

Do we have massive battles with hundereds of players per side nope only around 20-30

consistantly have had at least 50vs50 battles not sure what you are talking about

 DAOC battles are much bigger

Do we have healers to heal and remove the CC nope

you have support specs to remove CC so basically works the same so yes

 

Do we have a large map nope we have a ok size map not large in anyway

MAPS are HUGE especially for no mounts... people are already complaining of having to walk to far

 

Do we have a darkfall that we fight for to get the best farming and lvling not to mention tokens for gear from darkfall only nope

 

DO we have realm pride or in the case server pride nope

 realms are still being ranked but seen plenty of realm pride even Bill sees this as he mentioned in his review

In what way is this like DAoC OUTSIDE SEGING AND daOc IS NOT THE ONLY GAME WITH THAT JUST ONE OF THE 1ST.

 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

"full aoe speed buffs that last 5sec yup"

Why do people who know so little about the game try to pass their misinformation as facts?

As a guardian i can provide almost 40 secs of speed buffs every minute or so and elementalist can do even more.

So you are dead wrong.

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/20/12 1:54:57 PM#22

Jade Quarry = GW2's Yankees...

Unfortunately for JQ they are on to us and go 2 on 1 lol.

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

9/20/12 2:05:26 PM#23
Originally posted by Telondariel

"The bonuses are great and all, but just like The Secret World, I’m stuck wondering if it’ll be enough in the long haul."

 

That is the general problem with the entire game in general.  Its fun, its new and shiny..but once you've satisfied the apparent requisite to be a completionist..you'll see that the game lacks meat on its bones.  Unfortunately, despite being innovative in various areas, they seem to think that completely omitting forms of progression that other games have makes them different and superior, when in fact people are leaving in droves because of that alone.  There's nothing to work towards.  Having a pretty equipment skin =/= long term satisfaction.

 

 Leaving in droves?  Hahahaha... (looks at the full high servers at noon) yeah droves bro!

  lerwen

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 21

9/20/12 2:08:28 PM#24
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by lerwen
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by banshe13

WVW is no where near like DAOC RVR not in the least.

Do we have bard's  for group speed groups nope '

you have several classes that can provide full AOE speed buffs

 full aoe speed buffs that last 5sec yup

Do we have massive battles with hundereds of players per side nope only around 20-30

consistantly have had at least 50vs50 battles not sure what you are talking about

 DAOC battles are much bigger

Do we have healers to heal and remove the CC nope

you have support specs to remove CC so basically works the same so yes

 

Do we have a large map nope we have a ok size map not large in anyway

MAPS are HUGE especially for no mounts... people are already complaining of having to walk to far

 

Do we have a darkfall that we fight for to get the best farming and lvling not to mention tokens for gear from darkfall only nope

 

DO we have realm pride or in the case server pride nope

 realms are still being ranked but seen plenty of realm pride even Bill sees this as he mentioned in his review

In what way is this like DAoC OUTSIDE SEGING AND daOc IS NOT THE ONLY GAME WITH THAT JUST ONE OF THE 1ST.

 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

"full aoe speed buffs that last 5sec yup"

Why do people who know so little about the game try to pass their misinformation as facts?

As a guardian i can provide almost 40 secs of speed buffs every minute or so and elementalist can do even more.

So you are dead wrong.

 

ok so i have not play a guardian yet.

daoc bard speed is much faster and is on all the time

but i like EQ bard speed more

 

  User Deleted
9/20/12 2:13:07 PM#25
JQ is stacked but really what does that mean? Competition I think not, if your on a stacked team and win big freaking deal, if your on a stacked team and lose now that's a different story because you just look like a sucker trying to skate by. All those teams stacked on JQ left you with nothing interesting to do. You could almost take the top and the bottom of the rankings and disregard them. Top two or three just throw them out, and have a real ranking from the rest of the worlds. Your realm up against one of those realms, I would suggest taking a 2 week leave from wvw, let them have it, it will get old after a while and people will move. Want to take out the top server? Your not going to do it in game, you have to fight on othergrounds. Think art of war, think Vietnam war.... Run with it.
  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

9/20/12 2:28:28 PM#26

After a few weeks WvW just sort of fizzled in the fun department.  I'm not the sort that needs rewards to do PvP, fun is usually reward enough.  However, when the point eclipses the amount of fun I'm having, and in this case it was a seemingly complete lack of point, then it ceases to be fun anymore.

Why?  This was the biggest thing that started creaping into my head as I played.  Why?  What was the point.  Realm pride simply isn't enough, and the fact that it's a contained enviroment that doesn't seem to have that great an impact on anything seems to be the big killer for me. 

Maybe if it wasn't server vs server and self contained I would get it. 

You would think that with the way that it's set up that when you're not actually doing WvW you would care.  Afterall, is that not first and formost one of the effects of WvW?  Bonuses for the server.  When I'm doing PvE I'm not giving WvW any thought what-so-ever.  If my server is winning or losing I could really care less because I never feel any form of impact when not doing WvW. 

Perhaps a PvE zone that would unlock for the winning server that provides the best PvE farming?  Access to merchants, dungeons, craftables, etc. for the server that's winning in the WvW?  Something, anything that actually has a tangible, noticable impact on the PvE experience. 

Lobsided, incredibly.  This was something I noticed that took a lot of fun out of it as well.  Either you're winning or you're not, and usually winning means your server has more people in the WvW zone then the other servers.  I do not think that I've experienced a situation yet were Dragonbrand was either completely dominating whatever map they were winning, or losing horribly.  In EVE we call it "good fights" when sides are relatively balanced and winning really comes down to who simply did better, I've not found any of this in WvW yet.  It seems, first and foremost, based on whether or not your server has more players in the zone then the other server, and when sides are relatively equal who is actually using seige equipment.  Primarilly though, it's just who has the bigger zerg. 

Map diversity.  This was another killer for me.  It's supposed to be a world unto itself, but it's not in the slightest.  3 of the 4 maps are identical, even though they're supposed to be seperate areas of the same world.  Why did they only make two maps and then use one for three different areas?  Really wish they would have made four unique maps for the four different fronts. 

 

It's not bad or awful in any extent, it's just not that engrossing after a few weeks.  It just kind of became the place to go when some form of world pvp was desired, or when I wanted to do some nonstructured PvP.

 

I do have to say this about the review.  The extent of WvW doesn't seem suited to a review after only a few days of playing it.  Obviously it wasn't Bills fault that he couldn't get into it, but I do wish that the review could have waited a little longer.  Reviewing WvW after a week or so is kind of like reviewing any other MMO after only playing it for a week. 

I really think that something like this could have used a few weeks of play time to review well.  For the first week or two WvW was great; I had a blast.  It wasn't until after about three weeks that I really started to ask why, and that was around about the time that it started feeling rather shallow and dull to me.

I'd really love to hear Bills impression of WvW after he's had about month to really play in it.  I have a feeling Bill might actually come away with the same impression that I'm seeing a lot of other people developing, where's the point. 

  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1762

9/20/12 3:15:22 PM#27

Gues not many inhere waged war in Eve ?

War when did it become even or fair ?

Only thing is free transfers should have been disabled before the 1 week long matches started.

 

My server Far Shiverpeaks went from 2 hours queeu to 6 hours queue in a matter of 4 days :(

 

Seems evry1 transfers off to winning servers -_-

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

9/20/12 3:58:25 PM#28
Originally posted by Mothanos

Gues not many inhere waged war in Eve ?

War when did it become even or fair ?

Only thing is free transfers should have been disabled before the 1 week long matches started.

 

My server Far Shiverpeaks went from 2 hours queeu to 6 hours queue in a matter of 4 days :(

 

Seems evry1 transfers off to winning servers -_-

 I don't get this either.  I've yet to see a single MMO offer free transfers in an effort to even out populations and actually have it work as intended. 

They should have put in a requirement that if you're moving from server A you have to go to either server B and C, and then locked any transfers to servers that they wanted people to move off of.  Especially when they intend to charge for server transfers. 

When have players ever done what a developer actually expects them to do?  Kind of like the way that a lot of players won't report an exploit they find during testing if they can use it after release to gain an advantage.  Yet developers still rely on players to test their game to find these things, and then people wonder why so many bugs and exploits make it into the released games. 

  jedi_night

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/04
Posts: 21

9/20/12 4:19:48 PM#29
I'm on hence of denravi win my guild, and we VERY MUCH like face rolling JQ and Storm Bluff :)
  NobleNerd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 429

Try not!
Do or do not
There is no try.

9/20/12 5:27:24 PM#30

I have played WvW at different times and for long length of time, but I feel like a few posters here... I just don't feel the fun, satisfaction is lacking, and server impact and pride just not a major deal. When I am exploring the pve world therw is no relevent evidence of any change to my server from the pvp war raging. When I am in WvW it just feels like one big zerg from base to base then lose said bases to just zerg bases all over again.

After a few days of trying to grasp the WvW concept I have resigned to pve exploring. In other games and especially WoW and Rift I have been a huge pvper. I was excited for a large scale world to pvp, but there just isn't enough gratification right now in WvW to draw me back in everyday to play it. For this player something is missing that leaves me saying "Is that all?"

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 861

9/20/12 6:15:11 PM#31
Originally posted by Uhwop

After a few weeks WvW just sort of fizzled in the fun department.  I'm not the sort that needs rewards to do PvP, fun is usually reward enough.  However, when the point eclipses the amount of fun I'm having, and in this case it was a seemingly complete lack of point, then it ceases to be fun anymore.

Why?  This was the biggest thing that started creaping into my head as I played.  Why?  What was the point.  Realm pride simply isn't enough, and the fact that it's a contained enviroment that doesn't seem to have that great an impact on anything seems to be the big killer for me. 

Maybe if it wasn't server vs server and self contained I would get it. 

You would think that with the way that it's set up that when you're not actually doing WvW you would care.  Afterall, is that not first and formost one of the effects of WvW?  Bonuses for the server.  When I'm doing PvE I'm not giving WvW any thought what-so-ever.  If my server is winning or losing I could really care less because I never feel any form of impact when not doing WvW. 

Perhaps a PvE zone that would unlock for the winning server that provides the best PvE farming?  Access to merchants, dungeons, craftables, etc. for the server that's winning in the WvW?  Something, anything that actually has a tangible, noticable impact on the PvE experience. 

This is a fantastic idea, and one that has been brought up a couple of times before.  Maybe someone over at ANet will listen.

Lobsided, incredibly.  This was something I noticed that took a lot of fun out of it as well.  Either you're winning or you're not, and usually winning means your server has more people in the WvW zone then the other servers.  I do not think that I've experienced a situation yet were Dragonbrand was either completely dominating whatever map they were winning, or losing horribly.  In EVE we call it "good fights" when sides are relatively balanced and winning really comes down to who simply did better, I've not found any of this in WvW yet.  It seems, first and foremost, based on whether or not your server has more players in the zone then the other server, and when sides are relatively equal who is actually using seige equipment.  Primarilly though, it's just who has the bigger zerg. 

Map diversity.  This was another killer for me.  It's supposed to be a world unto itself, but it's not in the slightest.  3 of the 4 maps are identical, even though they're supposed to be seperate areas of the same world.  Why did they only make two maps and then use one for three different areas?  Really wish they would have made four unique maps for the four different fronts. 

I like this idea as well, but I don't see them doing a re-vamp of the maps anytime soon.

 

It's not bad or awful in any extent, it's just not that engrossing after a few weeks.  It just kind of became the place to go when some form of world pvp was desired, or when I wanted to do some nonstructured PvP.

 

I do have to say this about the review.  The extent of WvW doesn't seem suited to a review after only a few days of playing it.  Obviously it wasn't Bills fault that he couldn't get into it, but I do wish that the review could have waited a little longer.  Reviewing WvW after a week or so is kind of like reviewing any other MMO after only playing it for a week. 

To be fair, he is on one of the busiest WvW servers and the queue times are horrendous.  HOWEVER, as a journalist, he should have simply worked around this and made a character on server so that he could have spent the time needed to give more depth.

I really think that something like this could have used a few weeks of play time to review well.  For the first week or two WvW was great; I had a blast.  It wasn't until after about three weeks that I really started to ask why, and that was around about the time that it started feeling rather shallow and dull to me.

I'd really love to hear Bills impression of WvW after he's had about month to really play in it.  I have a feeling Bill might actually come away with the same impression that I'm seeing a lot of other people developing, where's the point. 

I agree with you.  I made a comment above saying people are leaving in droves (perhaps a slight exaggeration at this point in time but people are leaving regardless) because they've realised that after a while, the game lacks substance.  While people ARE leaving in boredom, ANet should be listening to the common themes of WHY they are leaving.  You don't get too many opportunities to improve something, and if they can include some deeper, meaningful levels of character progression and tweak WvW to make it rewarding past the "fun" factor (that wears thin after a while) then people will work to achieve those goals. 

  chryses

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

9/21/12 12:17:05 AM#32

Based on my experiences and fun being had in the PvE part of the game, I haven't even thought about PvP which is my preferred playing environment.  I messed around a bit in beta and thought it was very cool.  Especially side battles like killing the enemy's baggage train etc. 

One thing I do look for in PvP is real consequence and not minor buffs.  Be great to see Anet implement something game changing.  e.g. new vendors open up to the winning side, winning side get a new mix of DE's that drop better gear, Losing side has a price rise... something that makes everyone on the server go 'damn! that's good, or damn! that's harsh'.

It would generate a great feeling when you win and make you want to hit back twice as hard if you lose

  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 402

9/21/12 12:38:45 AM#33
Funny to see how so many MMO players need some kind of reward at the end of the road for doing something and if they don't get it, they don't see the purpose of doing it or don't see the purpose of doing it for too long. Can't you guys just play to have fun? This mindset is one of the worst thing that happen to gaming for the past 10+ years. Games have been dumbed down because of this, a progression process inserted for the casuals noobs to feel good because they unlock/looted some stupid rewards. You nearly can't even play a game that has everything unlocked/ready to use from the start, always the need of stupid nonsense crap of progression. Nowadays every single games created nearly ALWAYS have some kind of progress and this is pretty stupid if you ask me.
  SirFubar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/21/11
Posts: 402

9/21/12 12:41:02 AM#34
... cant delete srry :S
 
 
  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

9/21/12 12:58:42 AM#35
Originally posted by SirFubar
Funny to see how so many MMO players need some kind of reward at the end of the road for doing something and if they don't get it, they don't see the purpose of doing it or don't see the purpose of doing it for too long. Can't you guys just play to have fun? This mindset is one of the worst thing that happen to gaming for the past 10+ years. Games have been dumbed down because of this, a progression process inserted for the casuals noobs to feel good because they unlock/looted some stupid rewards. You nearly can't even play a game that has everything unlocked/ready to use from the start, always the need of stupid nonsense crap of progression. Nowadays every single games created nearly ALWAYS have some kind of progress and this is pretty stupid if you ask me.

I don't think it's just mmorpgs. Look at how fps games have evolved, where you get tiered content to unlock, levels and points to spend on various things. Fps of old was just about grabbing the game and shooting stuff, today it's equaly as important to set a path of progression, sometimes meaningless (since you constantly reset it). In the end I think it comes down to choice. If both gamestyles are covered by the market, a big portion of the games crowd will be pleased, although they may not like the individual choices.

 

Originally posted by chryses

Based on my experiences and fun being had in the PvE part of the game, I haven't even thought about PvP which is my preferred playing environment.  I messed around a bit in beta and thought it was very cool.  Especially side battles like killing the enemy's baggage train etc. 

One thing I do look for in PvP is real consequence and not minor buffs.  Be great to see Anet implement something game changing.  e.g. new vendors open up to the winning side, winning side get a new mix of DE's that drop better gear, Losing side has a price rise... something that makes everyone on the server go 'damn! that's good, or damn! that's harsh'.

It would generate a great feeling when you win and make you want to hit back twice as hard if you lose

I'm afraid you are describing something ideal that does not exist. What is actually happening is people hop to the winning servers at the slightest sign of trouble. There is no incentive to support your server the way you describe it, when you can just transfer in a second, pick whatever you want from the winning side and then return back to your friends if you so wish (although usually people end up sticking with the FOTM server).

Originally posted by sookster54

For me (I know not for everyone), World vs world is the BEST part of GW2 (but I also really like sPVP), because I come from other games that had massive world pvp or such. Arenanet has been adjusting the WvW zones and caps lately and I'm a little annoyed by the queue (couldn't even get in at all last night), hopefully they'll smooth things out where all the players can get in and fix the matchups, right now my server is well over 200K while other 2 are 60K and 40K.

You get these absurd queue times because the people from the other two servers don't consolidate their forces and fight back, they just transfer to your server. Expect the queues to get worse, since the majority of the WvW interested crowd of the third server will move the second it becomes apparent who the main server is. Your queue times will obviously go up, because these people are extremely interested in WvW in the first place. You'll also get all the people from the second server that don't want to put much effort.

On the next match up, the former first server may end up doing much worse than before, simply because all those transfers have dilluted the good quality of the former WvW force, which will incite a fresh wave of transfers.

 

  CyclopsSlayer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 531

9/21/12 1:14:51 AM#36

WvW has become rather boring, mostly because Ehmry Bay seems to be in total domination and finding opponents to fight is becoming difficult at times. 

Didn't record the exact score, but for the last few days we have held all but 6-7 of the camps continuously. Something like 370,000:400:600 last I looked.

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

9/21/12 1:15:59 AM#37
Originally posted by ZeGerman
...

Just to let you know the person who placed the siege weapon can kick anyone off their siege weapon at will.  You do however raise the point about a que spot.  It is ofcouse possible that a massive alliance could drasticaly reduce the number of players in a battle ground however a couple of spies does not make a difference in a fight.  There should however be a way to report someone as a spy and have aNet check it out and kick them back to the server they are spying for. Once sever transfers cost real money this could be a very interesting dynamic.  Then i could see the best spies who have infiltrated alliances hiring out their services for a lot of gold because of the high risk that once your caught you cant do it anymore.  This could be an awesome dynamic with a little thought put into it.

Most organised groups use voice communication software outside the game, so there is usually nothing in Anet's log to verify that somebody is a spy.

The only way to limit the problem somewhat would be to put some cooldown timer in transfers (like most Korean mmorpgs do, westerners need to learn a lot from the design of those games, they are way better suited for PvP in terms of rules and regulations). Even that however would not solve the issue of somebody buying a second box and planting a character in the opposite server battleground.

Originally posted by mCalvert

The problem with cheating is the mechanics are in favor of the cheater.

1. they take up a queue spot

2. you cant cant kill them

3. if you expose them they can create infinite alts

4. they can lock down seige weps with no way to kick them off

 

This is not real life. This is a game, and games have rules to ensure a fun and competitive atmosphere where people play with sportsmanship. THis is why you cant horsecollar a football player or excessivly celebrate, or take a dive in sports. AN wants this to be an esport, and there is no sport on earth where spying is allowed.

Now, if you want to make this a full loot, permadeath game with friendlyfire, then we will be happy to sort the problem out ourselves.

  1. The queue spot by itself is meaningless. It's the information (or misinformation) that is transferred that is more important. You lose more people doing jumping puzzles, running around doing world objectives or just afking in the respawn area if you're talking about fighting force numbers.
  2. Killing them doesn't remove them from the battleground. They can still see the map and they can still see map chat, even if you can prevent them from following you around.
  3. This is not a problem, alts are account based. You'll notice that if you make an alt, your alt will be automatically in the guild your main is representing.
  4. The person who placed the siege weapon can kick anybody and take over. It can be an issue if said person is not around.
  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

9/21/12 1:40:35 AM#38

I just wat to point out that keeps can be upgraded to have waypoints, but it's a big investment gold wise, needs a lot of resources and you obviously lose everything if the keep is taken down. So people place those kind of upgrades only on servers that have 24/7 presence, because only these servers can safeguard them.

 

On another sidenote, one thing you can do to really screw up your server (and people do it a lot) is take supplies from the keeps. Keep workers (NPCs) use those supplies to upgrade the keeps and since only dolyaks can transfer those supplies and not players, if you take them, you deny keep upgrades, making them easier for the enemy to take.

Supply camps on the other hand have infinite supplies and are only a few second away from keeps. Yet people are either ignorant or lazy and don't bother going there to restock.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5087

9/21/12 2:41:58 AM#39

On MMORPG.com we used to have a few previews, then a post launch review. Then we got a two reviews after launch. I am wondering when the next AAA title gets released if we are going to have a Review of the Day, each day until they finally decided to do a post launch review!

“Server Transfers being free are a big part of this problem.”

I should not by surprised but I am. This is a problem identified in may other MMO’s, Aion being a case in point. It has been a diaster for MMO’s before, why invite that disaster again?

  Ringside

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/10
Posts: 192

9/21/12 5:17:48 AM#40
Originally posted by banshe13

WVW is no where near like DAOC RVR not in the least.

Do we have bard's  for group speed groups nope '

 

Do we have massive battles with hundereds of players per side nope only around 20-30

 

Do we have healers to heal and remove the CC nope

 

Do we have a large map nope we have a ok size map not large in anyway

 

Do we have a darkfall that we fight for to get the best farming and lvling not to mention tokens for gear from darkfall only nope

 

DO we have realm pride or in the case server pride nope

 

In what way is this like DAoC OUTSIDE SEGING AND daOc IS NOT THE ONLY GAME WITH THAT JUST ONE OF THE 1ST.

 
 
 darkfall is an awsome game but tou are clearly refering to darkness fall not darkfall
 
 

 

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