Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Pivotelite

I don't know why people don't trust XFIRE, it's completely reliable, TSW and TERA are having trouble, thats seen on Xfire, WoW is losing players because of GW2 and Pandas soon, GW2 honeymoon is ending so people are playing less.

 

Xfire statistics show these things just fine. It's not 100% accurate, but it allows us to moniter a good chunk of the playerbase.

The problem is it isn't showing an accurate enough picture with all/most games which throws into doubt it's whole bloody point as a reliable source of information, the simplest example is EVE-Online, arguably one of the better sandbox games around, niche game,  if you look at its user data it is completely off and I mean completely, 4000 users out of a registered 500000-600000+ userbase is not an accurate gauge and concurrent user levels have been the same for roughly 3 years now (+/- 1000 when expansions roll out/vacation time hits) yet Xfire is showing wild fluctuations which just aren't there in reality, that in itself casts doubt for me onto Xfire as a data gathering tool.

I thought Eve only had 300-350k subs not 500-600k, it that's what you're referring to.

And I see it as always being generally accurate in terms of playerbase, Xfire dictates TERA most likely has more active players than Rift and TSW has more than TERA and EVE has more than TSW and SWTOR has slighty more than Eve and WoW has more than SWTOR and currently GW2 has more than WoW.

When you play the games, check sub numbers, box sales, server statuses, etc, that list seems pretty accurate. Xfire or not.

Originally posted by Pivotelite

I don't know why people don't trust XFIRE, it's completely reliable, TSW and TERA are having trouble, thats seen on Xfire, WoW is losing players because of GW2 and Pandas soon, GW2 honeymoon is ending so people are playing less.

 

Xfire statistics show these things just fine. It's not 100% accurate, but it allows us to moniter a good chunk of the playerbase.

I think calling Xfire stats a "good chunk of the playerbase" is not very accurate.  It may have enough people to show general trends but nothing close to a good chunk of MMO players use Xfire.  Kind of like how TV ratings are generated from boxes in %0.05 of the households with TVs.  It may give you a general idea but it is nowhere near accurate.

Originally posted by Letsinod
LOL...the TV ratings are taken from like 5000 people.  Thats WAY less than .05 from the millions of households.  Then it can't decide if the  set is on or if someone is watching it.  Again these samples are used to determine billions of advertising dollars.  The Xfire numbers are siginigant when you know anything about sampling or statistics.  While it might be a bad way to determine total populations of a game it is a invaluable tool for seeing playing trends.  Look at election polling as its no different.

Their is a difference though-

Xfire users "sign up" fopr Xfire so represent people who WANT to be "counted" where as Nielson is opurely a random statistic that is based on factors such as income, sex, members of family etc. (I was a nielson family)-

If nielson was set up like Xfire you would get people far more "passionite" about Television which really does not show a baseline average.

And it does know if the TV is on and who is watching (even guests) and if you do not continue to let it know you are viewing it logs you off after about 10 mins.

If Xfire was an actual statistical survey of the population it would be more reliable- Its not. people "sign up" and usually represent people with hgher tech knowledge than the average bear.

EDIT: Its apples and oranges. If Xfire was like nielson there would be a sample of everyone playing MMOs . Then it would be broken down by area/income bracket/members of family playing etc- 

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Uhwop

No sub for the game, so I don't really think it matters to much.  However, I can't see a massive amount of people sticking with it for the long run.  After almost a month I have to admit, game's pretty boring.

Not boring like pve isn't fun, or the combat isn't fun, but boring as in the game feels incredibly shallow and devoid of point.  I'm mostly interested in the PvP, and I'm having an incredibly hard time finding the "competetive" part of it.  Normally, when I think of something as competetive, there's usually something to compete for, I'm not seeing that here.

Exploration in GW2 isn't really exploring.  Everything is pretty much laid out on the map, I have no feeling of exploring the world.  When I explore I want to discover, and there's nothing to discover because of everything being pointed to on the map.  You move to an area, it opens up, and then you move from point to point in order to complete the map; that's not exploring.  Exploring means not knowing what you're going to find or where you're going to find it.  This is honestly the thing that's bothering me most about the game.  I followed the development and there was all this stuff about how explorers would love the game, that it rewards exploration, it doesn't.  It rewardst he completionist.

What are vistas supposed to be?  Puzzles?  Some are platforming puzzules but a lot aren't.  Are they supposed to be a point to find to be rewarded with spectactular views of the world?  Not really, there are vistas on rocks and other nonsensecle places that don't really serve a point. 

People complain about the dumbing down of MMO's.  WoW put marks over the heads of quest givers and then they showed you on the map were to go to do the quest, and people bitched.  My god, GW2 took it to an entire other level. 

Not a bad game.  Just not finding it to be a very interesting one.  The fact that there is no subscription and it caters to the casual, softcore PvP crowd means it's going to always have plenty of people playing it.  Just way to ultra casual for my taste though, and I have a feeling that an awful lot of people are going to find it the same way in the coming weeks. 

Just kind of pointless, dull, and far to casual even for the typical MMOer.   It's interesting too, the crafting, something I don't usually enjoy in themepark games, is by far the most hardcore, deep, explorative, and fun thing in the game.  The rest of it, not so much.

Agree with a lot of what you say.  For all the supposed exploration, there seems to be very little actually there.  And each vista rewards you with experience for going to it.  So not much exploring for exploring's sake if you're getting paid to visit each one.

As for the vistas, at least TOR gave me a reason to get those datacrons.  I'm not so sure what the point is for these aside for map completion (and, of course XP).

The majority of complaints I see about the game is the lack of depth (something I agree on); I don't know how they plan any retaining players if people are complaining about this a month in.

 

 When people say there is little exploration I have to think they are not playing the game much or trying to explore. While the important things are marked there is plenty to find by going to places yourself and actually exploring things.

 

People complain on day 1 of anything these days. People playing 200 hours in 3 weeks complaining they are bored are not the games concern anyway. Those are a small percentage who do the same thing in every game they play. Of no real concern.

 Yeah?

How about you tell us exactly how many things aren't listed on the map to find.  Cause one guy said "at least one". 

One or two things doen't make exploration, and that's not what Anet was talking about when they said that they reward exploration. 

Those non marked things are just bonus things to find, and do not represent exploration in GW2 as a whole. 

 How would I know the exact number? I would have to find every one by exploring. Or I could just do like you and dismiss anything that does not conform to my limited view.

 

If they are bonus things to find they are found by, EXPLORING. FFS thats what exploring is all about. You look like a hater when you act this way. No one takes people serious when they have a POV that requires your head to be in a dark and smelly place.

 

 

Apparently I didn't make myself clear enough earlier.  When I said at least one (one chest and one jumping puzzle), I meant that's all I've found so far.  There may be more, I don't know, I haven't found them yet.  I do know there are sites that have all of them that have been found....so far.  Here's one http://www.gw2cartographers.com.  I don't know everything that's on that site because I don't use it much (I'd rather find things on my own, usually) but it even shows jumping puzzles, etc.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Letsinod
LOL...the TV ratings are taken from like 5000 people.  Thats WAY less than .05 from the millions of households.  Then it can't decide if the  set is on or if someone is watching it.  Again these samples are used to determine billions of advertising dollars.  The Xfire numbers are siginigant when you know anything about sampling or statistics.  While it might be a bad way to determine total populations of a game it is a invaluable tool for seeing playing trends.  Look at election polling as its no different.

Their is a difference though-

Xfire users "sign up" fopr Xfire so represent people who WANT to be "counted" where as Nielson is opurely a random statistic that is based on factors such as income, sex, members of family etc. (I was a nielson family)-

If nielson was set up like Xfire you would get people far more "passionite" about Television which really does not show a baseline average.

And it does know if the TV is on and who is watching (even guests) and if you do not continue to let it know you are viewing it logs you off after about 10 mins.

If Xfire was an actual statistical survey of the population it would be more reliable- Its not. people "sign up" and usually represent people with hgher tech knowledge than the average bear.

EDIT: Its apples and oranges. If Xfire was like nielson there would be a sample of everyone playing MMOs . Then it would be broken down by area/income bracket/members of family playing etc- 

Your right.  I guess my point was the miniscule sampling size since thats what people were arguing again against.  Either way, the whole thread has derailed.

only thing XFire is good for is watching for population trends in a game. I would never claim that game A has twice as many players as game B becasue it had twice the XFire numbers. You never know what percentage of a games players will be using XFIRE.  Some games may have a higher proportion of users that do use XFire for voice or whatever. What you do know though is that the percentage that do use it with wahtever game is unlikly to change over a day, week, or months time so you can watch the trend within any game

btw Here are some apples to apples comparisons, all numbers are derived from XFire hours played on Tuesday 28 August to Tuesday 18 September. GW2 went from 81103 to 49726 or a decline of 39%, WoW went from 35806 to 19811 or a decline of 45%, SWToR went from 4569 to 2187 or a decline of 53%, LoTRO 2122 to 1766 a decline of 17%, TERA went from 1026 to 628 a decline of 39%, and Aion went from 4314 to 3248 or a decline of 25%.

Looks like pretty much all the MMO's took a hit when September rolled around, what a surprise..not

Oh and Gallup etc polls are taken with ssamples of a couple of thousand out of several hundred million so sample size is a moot argument

Originally posted by Jackdog

only thing XFire is good for is watching for population trends in a game. I would never claim that game A has twice as many players as game B becasue it had twice the XFire numbers. You never know what percentage of a games players will be using XFIRE.  Some games may have a higher proportion of users that do use XFire for voice or whatever. What you do know though is that the percentage that do use it with wahtever game is unlikly to change over a day, week, or months time so you can watch the trend within any game

 

btw Here are some apples to apples comparisons, all numbers are derived from XFire hours played on Tuesday 28 August to Tuesday 18 September. GW2 went from 81103 to 49726 or a decline of 39%, WoW went from 35806 to 19811 or a decline of 45%, SWToR went from 4569 to 2187 or a decline of 53%, LoTRO 2122 to 1766 a decline of 17%, TERA went from 1026 to 628 a decline of 39%, and Aion went from 4314 to 3248 or a decline of 25%.

Looks like pretty much all the MMO's took a hit when September rolled around, what a surprise..not

Oh and Gallup etc polls are taken with ssamples of a couple of thousand out of several hundred million so sample size is a moot argument

 

 

That was my original point Xfire shows how games are trending but people here say it shows accurate data for a large portion of the people playing MMOS and it does not.  Also to the person that said Nielson is way under 0.05% you are accurate.  For 2009 Nielson had 25000 boxes not 5000 and there is an estimated 116M households with TV's so that would be 0.002% so my bad on the math.  Xfire may be better then TV ratings but they both are total crap when determining playerbases.

Also the fact that Xfire is open for anyone who signs up for it would make it less accurate then something like a TV ratings because it will tailor to a specific type of MMO player(the type that would download a monitoring program) not the whole community while TV ratings at least try to account for all household types(and epic Fails imo).

Originally posted by Volkon

The only issue(s) I have with XFire are this:

 

1. It doesn't reflect players accurately. For example, my initial burst play compared to "settled down" play is significantly different. I'll play a couple hours on work days now, but initially... well, the wife was unamused for the most part.

 

2. It doesn't reflect players like myself that uninstalled XFire (I actually did...) during the first week of launch simply to have less clogging my system up. However, there's a chance that that could be offset my players installing it, and it's likely a negligible number anyhow.

 Then good news.

None of these issues causes the data to be incorrect or misleading.