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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » X-post from Reddit: You are all destroying the MMO genre, and you don't even know why you act the way you do.

8 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
144 posts found
  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/19/12 4:07:45 PM#61
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by Yamota

Complete fanboy nonsense from someone who does not understand market mechanics. It is quite simple, companies create products which customers like. If they don't like it then they wont buy it, period. You cant ever say that it is the customers fault for not liking your product and that is what essentially this post is saying.

So the statement that the genre is being ruined because customers dont like a certain aspect of an MMO is complete rubbish. Companies need to figure out what works and what does not, you as a consumer have only one obligation and that is to buy the products you like. If you don't like endless grinding for gear then dont buy those games but that does not mean that it can be assumed that replacing endless grinding for gear with anything will make customers like your game.

Now I am not saying that customers dont like what GW 2 has to offer as replacement for endgame, gear grinding but if they don't like it then they don't. Companies need to figure out what they like instead and cant blame customers for not liking what they do.

I don't know man. A lot of people watch reality TV and bad Movie remakes and it has been ruining the quality of both forms of entertainment. When a good movie does come out I see a lot of complaints from the same people because it didn't have enough explosions etc.....

I dont know what you mean, good movies get good ratings. The latest Batman movie was awesome and it got awesome ratings and the fact that reality TV is popular is because apparently alot of people like them and you cant blame people for what they like. Like you cant blame people if they dont like GW 2:s version of end game.

A corporations who blames customers for not buying their stuff is a corporation which will go bankrupt and this is what the OP does not get where he seems to want to blame customers for not, allegedly, liking something he likes and acting like that will ruin the genre and that is just nonsense.

They might ruin it from his point of view, like from my point of view who like Asheron's Call and Ultima Online and think the current selection of MMORPGs are not all that good, but that does not make the genre ruined. 

Good movies also get bad ratings while bad ones get good ratings.

I can blame people for what ever I feel like. That's the way blame works.

I don't care if people like GW2s endgame.

What corpertation is blaming customers? The op was a post by a customer blaming other customers.

All I got from the OP was he was calling out all the people that bitch and moan about a certain type of endgame and then bitch and moan that a game does not have the same endgame.

SWTOR is KINDA blaming customers- The "sub" model anyhow. Plus there seems to be an air of arragance arounf the Corporate World in General right now (not just in games) that failure is being "excused" and "written off" for a plethora of reasons but NEVER bad managment or a bad product.

EDIT: Ratings also no longer really determine anything beyond popularity (which is accomplished by marketing for the most part)- Its really quite scandelous. Granted we have gotten some fantastic Movies of late which merged good technology and FX with a good story (Such as Avatar) and games which have also used to tech to "add" to the game rather than dumb it down . But overall this is a total glut in Music/Movies/Games which are more about "image" and "marketing" forces than depth and quality.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1354

9/19/12 4:08:36 PM#62
Originally posted by StoneRoses
Hating on video games is serious business for some folks!

 It's not just people who experess a "negative" opiniion though.  Fans are just as much to blame. 

I made a simple observation about exploring in GW2, I think it's far to trivial to the point that Anet actually made exploring in an MMO EASIER.  In the exact same post I actually said it was a GOOD GAME.  Yet I get jumped on, called a hater, a liar, and that I was only trying to spread BS.

Why?  Because I'd rather not have the mojority of things handed to me.  Because when I explore I want to EXPLORE.  I don't want to see what's there already, I want to DISCOVER POI's in the world. 

Blind fandom can be just as harmfull.  You play a game, and then you make a simple critique that it's overly easy and you'd like a bit more challenge in some aspect of it, and a fanatic will jump on you and say that that's wrong because it's not easy enough. 

MMO's didn't get to the point of being developed just because of the "haters".  They are where they're at because of both sides. 

It's through constructive critisism that creative projects are improved.  Not blind fandom or hate, yet that's primarilly what you'll see.  There's very little constructive critisism from people.  

  Vyeth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/07
Posts: 1457

Celebrated pariah of MMORPG.com

9/19/12 4:16:28 PM#63

We will not be satisfied until the genre officially dies..

It will, of course, continue to blend into other genres which means instead of getting a fully featured MMO, you will get an RTS game with gear and level locked content.. Platformer games with endless level grinds in order to obtain an key to progress further.. More of the same lobby based "level grind" FPS games..

They will add a level progression system to every genre of gaming and each will be hardly no different than the next.. Just a way to restrict content..

I agree with the whole statement.. Nothing that can be done about it though, MMO's are now mainstream and are treated as such.. You make tons of more enemies when you are thrust into the public eye the way WoW was.

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/19/12 4:18:31 PM#64
Originally posted by Vyeth

We will not be satisfied until the genre officially dies..

It will, of course, continue to blend into other genres which means instead of getting a fully featured MMO, you will get an RTS game with gear and level locked content.. Platformer games with endless level grinds in order to obtain an key to progress further.. More of the same lobby based "level grind" FPS games..

They will add a level progression system to every genre of gaming and each will be hardly no different than the next.. Just a way to restrict content..

I agree with the whole statement.. Nothing that can be done about it though, MMO's are now mainstream and are treated as such.. You make tons of more enemies when you are thrust into the public eye the way WoW was.

Well said-

But I think the genre (being half dead already) will break off into smaller niche markets with less obscene amounts of money behind them and thus more "risk taking"- Its a pretty sure bet. The question is, when will it happen? Hopefully soon-

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

9/19/12 4:29:42 PM#65
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Don't let the companies off the hook, they helped the cause the cycle that led to what this is, and although it may not be 100% the correct place to blame, it was likely WoW that started it.

 

 

 

 naa people have been whining since eq..

the only difference is that the whines were absolutely no match for the vision, which i believe gained strength with every whine.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5371

I dare you to pin a label on me.

9/19/12 4:56:10 PM#66

The greatest error the author makes is that he/she assumes those complaints come from the same players.

I've never played games for nothing more than the fun. I don't have needs to reach the max level other than to see the high end content. Don't need to grind gear either if its not fun - don't need to play the game if its not fun.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

9/19/12 5:15:06 PM#67
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
 

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

I disagree with this.  You know what sells well during hard times?  Cheap escapism.  Drugs, booze, movies, games, etc.  Movies have become repetitive boring copies of each other, and the few gems that aren't are often rewarded (unless they are too cerebral for today's population).  Same with TV shows.  How many good shows have been cancelled to make room for reality TV and other bullshit that required zero brain activity?  I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain.  

Don't you really know what the problem is?  I mean can't you feel it yourself? Show me one AAA mmorpg game that game out in the last seven years which is *significantly different* than WoW.  Even GW2 is mostly just very well repackaged features we've all played for several years now.  It's still just a race to level cap, and a gear grind.  There are no other features there to allow for player-driven content, or emergent gameplay at all.   Is GW2 all that different in gameplay from Rift, or SWTOR, or LOTRO, or WoW, or TSW or anything else?  The only game anyone can point to as being different is EVE, and unfortunately that game does not appeal to everyone.  The *features* do, but the setting and content don't.

 

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

 

 

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  NeokiNaomi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/07
Posts: 324

In der ruhe kommt die kraft.

9/19/12 5:26:15 PM#68
I agree with this manifesto... I want games like Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies (Pre-CU/NGE), Asherons Call, DAOC... But the modern day teeny bopper would whine too much for that type of game to even break even and make a decent profit.

TwitchTV:NeokiLIVE

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/19/12 5:28:53 PM#69
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
 

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

I disagree with this.  You know what sells well during hard times?  Cheap escapism.  Drugs, booze, movies, games, etc.  Movies have become repetitive boring copies of each other, and the few gems that aren't are often rewarded (unless they are too cerebral for today's population).  Same with TV shows.  How many good shows have been cancelled to make room for reality TV and other bullshit that required zero brain activity?  I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain.  

Don't you really know what the problem is?  I mean can't you feel it yourself? Show me one AAA mmorpg game that game out in the last seven years which is *significantly different* than WoW.  Even GW2 is mostly just very well repackaged features we've all played for several years now.  It's still just a race to level cap, and a gear grind.  There are no other features there to allow for player-driven content, or emergent gameplay at all.   Is GW2 all that different in gameplay from Rift, or SWTOR, or LOTRO, or WoW, or TSW or anything else?  The only game anyone can point to as being different is EVE, and unfortunately that game does not appeal to everyone.  The *features* do, but the setting and content don't.

 

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

 

 

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

This is a joke right?

Simple things for simple people- And the masses as a whole are beyond simple....

  gordiflu

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 753

9/19/12 5:29:49 PM#70
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
 

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

I disagree with this.  You know what sells well during hard times?  Cheap escapism.  Drugs, booze, movies, games, etc.  Movies have become repetitive boring copies of each other, and the few gems that aren't are often rewarded (unless they are too cerebral for today's population).  Same with TV shows.  How many good shows have been cancelled to make room for reality TV and other bullshit that required zero brain activity?  I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain.  

Don't you really know what the problem is?  I mean can't you feel it yourself? Show me one AAA mmorpg game that game out in the last seven years which is *significantly different* than WoW.  Even GW2 is mostly just very well repackaged features we've all played for several years now.  It's still just a race to level cap, and a gear grind.  There are no other features there to allow for player-driven content, or emergent gameplay at all.   Is GW2 all that different in gameplay from Rift, or SWTOR, or LOTRO, or WoW, or TSW or anything else?  The only game anyone can point to as being different is EVE, and unfortunately that game does not appeal to everyone.  The *features* do, but the setting and content don't.

 

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

 

 

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

For 1, 2 and 5 I can think of Global Agenda, Mechcommander and Confrontation. I think that they are very different to the games you listed on each genre.

Now the trick is... F* genres. I tend to use music analogies often, since music is my main pasion, more than games. And when I think about it, most of the bands or artists that I really like are very hard to "catalogue" or have something that make them quite unique, like Genghis Tron, Iwrestledabearonce or Bjork.

I guess it's, again, about thinking out of the box.

  Anthara

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/06
Posts: 75

9/19/12 5:29:50 PM#71

I agree on almost everything, except the "slightly" detail about who's the fault in MMO's decline.

 

Yes, players are like that today but... I blame the companys.

They seem to try someone else success by removing the old school grind mmo's used to have. So, they kinda "educate" players to a rushing fast paced game. That usually ends in what we see today, mmo's reward you instantly in any activity, all is speed up without downtimes... also culminating in zero social interaction.

Gamers consume games in one month because they can.

We are all chickens in a huge feeding house, eating fat delicious corn and not stoping to chat for a little.

I remember playing L2 and farming specific mobs for hours just to craft awsome gear.. a la korean type, and we just chated a lot during that time.

Like the old downtime in wow, where we had to drink and eat and stuff to regen a bit and continue fighting. Having to move around in the world to go dungeons and stuff like that.... making social interaction possible during those "time sinks", like we love to call it these days.

Anyway, all that grind also had terri bad stuff because it was made during the time quests sucked. :)

I have to bring wow to my thinking and I'm sorry but, wow benefits from a past lore from sp games and a real identity that people liked and enjoyed exploring its lore. The open zones + travel time + downtimes in combat, helped a lot in friendly and unfriendly meetings.

WoW was very slow and had a strong social interaction I believe. All that changed over the years and mainstreamed till no end.

Now all companys want to eat from the wow pie and give us games like wow. We want something familiar to mmo's, but well done.

We want hard games and meet people in good and bad mood. Make the game slower! But more fun please. Innovate in the quests mechanics, technology, group content. We want lore well done... not 300 hours of voicovers. 

Also... the crafting in mmo's should be the main reason for open world pvp. By putting resources in open group areas for players to fight for.

Again, games are beaten in one month because players can.. is that simple. MMo's are made to be finished in one month because they want to hype it, make it pretty and fun, grab 2 million sales and thats it.

I have to stick with EVE for more time... at least I allways learn something new everytime.

Sorry about the english, and btw. This is that kind of discussion with no end. We are all politicians discussing mrpg business.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

9/19/12 5:45:22 PM#72
Originally posted by gordiflu
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
 

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

I disagree with this.  You know what sells well during hard times?  Cheap escapism.  Drugs, booze, movies, games, etc.  Movies have become repetitive boring copies of each other, and the few gems that aren't are often rewarded (unless they are too cerebral for today's population).  Same with TV shows.  How many good shows have been cancelled to make room for reality TV and other bullshit that required zero brain activity?  I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain.  

Don't you really know what the problem is?  I mean can't you feel it yourself? Show me one AAA mmorpg game that game out in the last seven years which is *significantly different* than WoW.  Even GW2 is mostly just very well repackaged features we've all played for several years now.  It's still just a race to level cap, and a gear grind.  There are no other features there to allow for player-driven content, or emergent gameplay at all.   Is GW2 all that different in gameplay from Rift, or SWTOR, or LOTRO, or WoW, or TSW or anything else?  The only game anyone can point to as being different is EVE, and unfortunately that game does not appeal to everyone.  The *features* do, but the setting and content don't.

 

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

 

 

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

For 1, 2 and 5 I can think of Global Agenda, Mechcommander and Confrontation. I think that they are very different to the games you listed on each genre.

Now the trick is... F* genres. I tend to use music analogies often, since music is my main pasion, more than games. And when I think about it, most of the bands or artists that I really like are very hard to "catalogue" or have something that make them quite unique, like Genghis Tron, Iwrestledabearonce or Bjork.

I guess it's, again, about thinking out of the box.

 

Global Agenda  is an MMOFPS, Mechcommander is an RTT, Confrontation is an Tactical RPG and I love music more than games but there are games than straddle genres like Battleforge as in music there are artists who draw from multiple genres and they are usually put in the leftfield /experimental categories. But most artists as in games can be put under main genres or subgenres as in Rock, Prog Rock, Post Rock, Space Rock, Grunge, Punk etc.. its what we do as intelligent humans we categorise stuff to make it easier to understand.

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  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

9/19/12 5:46:22 PM#73
Originally posted by Calerxes

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

You can't possibly be serious. Achron. Warlords Battlecry. Kohan. All different from CandC.

Demigod, not a DOTA clone.

Immercenary, different than Wolfenstein.

Warring Factions, totally different than OGame.

A Tale in the Desert. Totally different from Vanilla WoW.

SWTOR totally not different from WoW or WAR or EQ2 or NGE SWG.

I usually don't agree with you but you have never been this far off base before. Did you think that post through at all?

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

9/19/12 5:47:07 PM#74
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
 

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

I disagree with this.  You know what sells well during hard times?  Cheap escapism.  Drugs, booze, movies, games, etc.  Movies have become repetitive boring copies of each other, and the few gems that aren't are often rewarded (unless they are too cerebral for today's population).  Same with TV shows.  How many good shows have been cancelled to make room for reality TV and other bullshit that required zero brain activity?  I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain.  

Don't you really know what the problem is?  I mean can't you feel it yourself? Show me one AAA mmorpg game that game out in the last seven years which is *significantly different* than WoW.  Even GW2 is mostly just very well repackaged features we've all played for several years now.  It's still just a race to level cap, and a gear grind.  There are no other features there to allow for player-driven content, or emergent gameplay at all.   Is GW2 all that different in gameplay from Rift, or SWTOR, or LOTRO, or WoW, or TSW or anything else?  The only game anyone can point to as being different is EVE, and unfortunately that game does not appeal to everyone.  The *features* do, but the setting and content don't.

 

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

 

 

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

This is a joke right?

Simple things for simple people- And the masses as a whole are beyond simple....

 

Wrong answer.

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  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

9/19/12 6:14:38 PM#75
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Calerxes

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

You can't possibly be serious. Achron. Warlords Battlecry. Kohan. All different from CandC.

Demigod, not a DOTA clone.

Immercenary, different than Wolfenstein.

Warring Factions, totally different than OGame.

A Tale in the Desert. Totally different from Vanilla WoW.

SWTOR totally not different from WoW or WAR or EQ2 or NGE SWG.

I usually don't agree with you but you have never been this far off base before. Did you think that post through at all?

 

What I should have added was significantly different in the AAA world as there are many different games but asking for something in the world of AAA games to be significantly different means to play another genre as the more money you pour into a game the more people you have to attract thus the copying of tried and tested mechanics leading to clones. When will gamers realise that the mainstream AAA world is not going to suddenly change course becuase a few forum goers whinge, I don't buy mainstream music and cry because its not as avant garde as Autechre or The Mars Volta and thats what gamers do all the time.

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  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/19/12 6:16:47 PM#76
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Calerxes

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

You can't possibly be serious. Achron. Warlords Battlecry. Kohan. All different from CandC.

Demigod, not a DOTA clone.

Immercenary, different than Wolfenstein.

Warring Factions, totally different than OGame.

A Tale in the Desert. Totally different from Vanilla WoW.

SWTOR totally not different from WoW or WAR or EQ2 or NGE SWG.

I usually don't agree with you but you have never been this far off base before. Did you think that post through at all?

 

What I should have added was significantly different in the AAA world as there are many different games but asking for something in the world of AAA games to be significantly different means to play another genre as the more money you pour into a game the more people you have to attract thus the copying of tried and tested mechanics leading to clones. When will gamers realise that the mainstream AAA world is not going to suddenly change course becuase a few forum goers whinge, I don't buy mainstream music and cry because its not as avant garde as Autechre or The Mars Volta and thats just what gamers do all the time.

Hmmmm- I would fully agree with this.

But it wasnt always this way- The AAA market used to be very diverse (especially with regards to RPG's) and the last 10 (or so) years the genre melding is what has gotten us to this point.

But yeah, now that you have expanded upon what you had said I can see your point.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3541

9/19/12 6:17:45 PM#77
    I blame WoW.....
  rygard49

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

9/19/12 6:22:10 PM#78
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by Yamota

I dont know what you mean, good movies get good ratings. The latest Batman movie was awesome and it got awesome ratings and the fact that reality TV is popular is because apparently alot of people like them and you cant blame people for what they like. Like you cant blame people if they dont like GW 2:s version of end game.

A corporations who blames customers for not buying their stuff is a corporation which will go bankrupt and this is what the OP does not get where he seems to want to blame customers for not, allegedly, liking something he likes and acting like that will ruin the genre and that is just nonsense.

They might ruin it from his point of view, like from my point of view who like Asheron's Call and Ultima Online and think the current selection of MMORPGs are not all that good, but that does not make the genre ruined. 

Good movies also get bad ratings while bad ones get good ratings.

I can blame people for what ever I feel like. That's the way blame works.

I don't care if people like GW2s endgame.

What corportation is blaming customers? The op was a post by a customer blaming other customers.

All I got from the OP was he was calling out all the people that bitch and moan about a certain type of endgame and then bitch and moan that a game does not have the same endgame.

What you got from the OP was that some people bitch about game A's endgame, and then some people bitch about game B's endgame. Who says those are the same people bitching? That's what the root cause of this Reddit Rant would have to be, is the same exact people having conflicting, hypocrtical criticisms of the two games.

But it isn't the same people. You know it's not the same people.

The OP is rubbish.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

9/19/12 6:28:16 PM#79
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Calerxes

Name me one significantly different FPS than Wolfenstein.

Name me one significantly different RTS than Command and Conquer.

Name me one significantly different Platformer than Donkey Kong.

Name me one significantly different MOBA than DOTA.

Name me one significantly different RPG than Ultima.

When a game is significantly different than it predecessors it becomes a new genre. TBS >>>> RTS >>>> MOBA. RPG >>>> ARPG >>>> MMORPG for example.

You can't possibly be serious. Achron. Warlords Battlecry. Kohan. All different from CandC.

Demigod, not a DOTA clone.

Immercenary, different than Wolfenstein.

Warring Factions, totally different than OGame.

A Tale in the Desert. Totally different from Vanilla WoW.

SWTOR totally not different from WoW or WAR or EQ2 or NGE SWG.

I usually don't agree with you but you have never been this far off base before. Did you think that post through at all?

 

What I should have added was significantly different in the AAA world as there are many different games but asking for something in the world of AAA games to be significantly different means to play another genre as the more money you pour into a game the more people you have to attract thus the copying of tried and tested mechanics leading to clones. When will gamers realise that the mainstream AAA world is not going to suddenly change course becuase a few forum goers whinge, I don't buy mainstream music and cry because its not as avant garde as Autechre or The Mars Volta and thats just what gamers do all the time.

Hmmmm- I would fully agree with this.

But it wasnt always this way- The AAA market used to be very diverse (especially with regards to RPG's) and the last 10 (or so) years the genre melding is what has gotten us to this point.

But yeah, now that you have expanded upon what you had said I can see your point.

 

I type quickly and don't proof read properly . It urks me when people whinge that something isn't what they want but do not have the intelligence to look outside the mainstream world to see if it exists there they think but whinging enough a company will throw 100 million at a My Little Pony sandbox FFA PvP game. I would also argue that tradition RPG's in the past were always niche compared to some of the subgenres especially ARPG's like the behemoth Diablo and therefore never really in the AAA world. 

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  UWNVME

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 174

9/19/12 6:31:56 PM#80

Yeah, I'm late to the party. But I'd just like to comment that the Reddit post quoted sums up a lot of my own feelings and I was just getting ready to say something myself.

It's really disheartening when I hear some of the complaints for GW2. Yes, the game has flaws, it's not perfect, but I'm having a blast and enjoying the game still one month later.

What really puzzles me about the complaints directed about the game, is it seems like some so-called MMO "fans" are just impossible to please. You guys hosed down games like SWTOR, Warhammer, and Rift because they were "WoW clones". So GW2 takes a new direction and shakes up the genre a bit, a complete rework of the "holy trinity" party roles, different methods for grinding levels, and a more action combat system. And then you guys complain because now it's "too different from WoW". Are you kidding me? Just give up, you will never find a game you can enjoy.

And I think there's another important message that the Reddit poster pointed out, whatever happened to simply having fun playing MMOs? Why is it that with some of you guys, it needs to be all about gear progression and if the game isn't designed around huffing and puffing on an endless loot treadmill, then its not worth the time? Lastly, please remember that gear treadmill dungeon grinding is all a Blizzard creation, you can speak of the old days of SWG and DAOC, just remember those games did not revolve around the type of endgame you wanted in GW2.

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