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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Guild Wars 2 contradicts itself, and is left standing in a weird place.

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157 posts found
  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2564

9/19/12 3:59:04 PM#101
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Sorry but Pay to Win implies you can get something with money that you can't get in game any other way. That you are BUYING an advantage that the others can't get unless they too spend money. Simply not true in GW2.

So with this definition, Runes of Magic is NOT pay to win.....but it really is???

Having played Runes of Magic, and emphasizing on the comment you're responding to, 

Pay to Win means that 

1. there are things in the game needed to do content. In Runes of Magic, you need gear of particular level in order to do various dungeon content. 

2. the only reasonable way to get this gear is to use diamonds to buy it.  You could farm it, but it can take days of grinding. This is not reasonable.

GW2 doesnt fit either of these. I don't need a particular toughness or power to do any dungeon.  If I'm level 30 and have used any of the gear I've picked up along the way, I will be able to perform the dungeon. 

In GW2 I can attempt to get things like legendary gear or exotic gear or matching gear, but these things aren't needed to play the dungeon or acess any content.  The help they give u is margional at best.  

Thus, GW2 is not pay to win. 

# 2 applies completely....whether ANET intended it or not, people that run dungeon runs or are elites will start asking for the gear that you either have to by gems for or farm gold for.  Again, this is poor design (or intentional) from ANET...

There will ALWAYS be people like this in every game - 'You can't join because your armor is ont elite'. Then I don't need to play with them - I have my guild to play with alon with other friends who don't care a lick for it. People being that way DOESN'T mean it it P2W - sorry.

 

I will give an example from GW1. In GvG or in HoH, may people believe you should only use a weapon mod 15% above 50 and that anything else was usless. The problem is 14% above 50, on average only lowered DPS by 1% - it was just elitism only - not playing the game. It is the same with the Elite armors - they give so little.

 

It is not a poor design, well maybe - poor design of MMO players.

any MMO that doesnt consider the human element has poor designers.  Also, thanks for using ANOTHER Anet game to prove a point. 

Fact - elitist's exhist

Fact - they will require the best

Fiction - farming/grinding for "the best" is just as easy as paying for them with RMT's

= P2W.....

You are missing the point - no game can be designed to remove elitism. It is inherent in our nature as human beings - I am better than you because - all you have to do is look at the American Elections and see elitism on both sides at work.

 

It is not P2W - I was on a GW1 GvG team and played several teams the were known to have bought accounts because they had the best gear - they lost because they thought it was all gear. You are missing the point - you think everything playes like WoW or Rift and games don't (TSW and GW2 come to mind).

 

The way to deal with elitiism is ignore them or grind them into a grease spot - not hard to do either.

I wouldn't say that GW2 plays differently than those games...TSW, yeah...not GW2...it's the same with even less imho.  but I really wanted you to focus on this line more than any of the others:

 

Fiction - farming/grinding for "the best" is just as easy as paying for them with RMT's

The fact that you can buy a product with Real money and exchange it for in-game gold is as P2W as it gets....

Get this - THE STATS ARE THE SAME - at lvl 80 Armor is the same - looks are different. NOT P2W - P2M (Pay 2 Model) - maybe....

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 1012

9/19/12 4:02:17 PM#102
The active population is droping fast, i wonder why?. 
  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

9/19/12 4:05:38 PM#103

If ever there was a thread that demonstrated that most people aren't even paying attention to what they're reading, this would be it.

OP said that Anet told us there was no grind, that gear and level did not matter; which they did, and the OP pointed out correctly how that is wrong.

Bunch of peopel respond. 

They use the worlds GRINDING.  Something that Anet said wouldn't be there, that the OP pointed out is, and people are refuting the OP while actually stating there's a grind.  WTF? 

Uhm...

You don't have to grind anything in any game, kind of like duh.  However, if you want the better items you sure do, and that applies to GW2 as much as any other MMO out there. 

Except...

Anet said that didn't exist here. 

 

So what is it? 

Is it ok that the grind is there, and that level and gear actually matter?  or is it ok that Anet said those things weren't in the game, yet are, and that that's ok with you guys?  Because I'm really confused how people are argueing against the OP when everything he wrote is absolutely true. 

I was saying this in other games and I'm sure on this forum, when people said there was no gear treadmill, and that gear didn't matter.  They kept saying, "Anet said so" and I kept pointing out that it wasn't true.  That there own website made it very clear that there was gear, and that gear mattered, and that people would be grinding for gear. 

You grind for gear in GW2.  No matter how you slice it, it's exactly like every other themepark, gear grinding.  I'm not saying that's bad, but I have to agree with the OP.  Anet said it wasn't a part of the game, and it is.  Just becasue "you don't have to" doesn't make it not there.  You don't have to grind for anything in any game.  You can just get to max level and then quit, but that's not really what people do. 

WvW sucks when you're shooting someone, at full health, and then suddenly you're dead.  It's because max level players with good gear make boosting rather pointless.  20k HP doesn't really mean much when someone has the gear to do that much damage in just a few seconds, and if you want to PvP against those people in WvW you need to grind for the gear, or spend real money to get it.

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/19/12 4:07:51 PM#104
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Sorry but Pay to Win implies you can get something with money that you can't get in game any other way. That you are BUYING an advantage that the others can't get unless they too spend money. Simply not true in GW2.

So with this definition, Runes of Magic is NOT pay to win.....but it really is???

Having played Runes of Magic, and emphasizing on the comment you're responding to, 

Pay to Win means that 

1. there are things in the game needed to do content. In Runes of Magic, you need gear of particular level in order to do various dungeon content. 

2. the only reasonable way to get this gear is to use diamonds to buy it.  You could farm it, but it can take days of grinding. This is not reasonable.

GW2 doesnt fit either of these. I don't need a particular toughness or power to do any dungeon.  If I'm level 30 and have used any of the gear I've picked up along the way, I will be able to perform the dungeon. 

In GW2 I can attempt to get things like legendary gear or exotic gear or matching gear, but these things aren't needed to play the dungeon or acess any content.  The help they give u is margional at best.  

Thus, GW2 is not pay to win. 

# 2 applies completely....whether ANET intended it or not, people that run dungeon runs or are elites will start asking for the gear that you either have to by gems for or farm gold for.  Again, this is poor design (or intentional) from ANET...

There will ALWAYS be people like this in every game - 'You can't join because your armor is ont elite'. Then I don't need to play with them - I have my guild to play with alon with other friends who don't care a lick for it. People being that way DOESN'T mean it it P2W - sorry.

 

I will give an example from GW1. In GvG or in HoH, may people believe you should only use a weapon mod 15% above 50 and that anything else was usless. The problem is 14% above 50, on average only lowered DPS by 1% - it was just elitism only - not playing the game. It is the same with the Elite armors - they give so little.

 

It is not a poor design, well maybe - poor design of MMO players.

any MMO that doesnt consider the human element has poor designers.  Also, thanks for using ANOTHER Anet game to prove a point. 

Fact - elitist's exhist

Fact - they will require the best

Fiction - farming/grinding for "the best" is just as easy as paying for them with RMT's

= P2W.....

You are missing the point - no game can be designed to remove elitism. It is inherent in our nature as human beings - I am better than you because - all you have to do is look at the American Elections and see elitism on both sides at work.

 

It is not P2W - I was on a GW1 GvG team and played several teams the were known to have bought accounts because they had the best gear - they lost because they thought it was all gear. You are missing the point - you think everything playes like WoW or Rift and games don't (TSW and GW2 come to mind).

 

The way to deal with elitiism is ignore them or grind them into a grease spot - not hard to do either.

I wouldn't say that GW2 plays differently than those games...TSW, yeah...not GW2...it's the same with even less imho.  but I really wanted you to focus on this line more than any of the others:

 

Fiction - farming/grinding for "the best" is just as easy as paying for them with RMT's

The fact that you can buy a product with Real money and exchange it for in-game gold is as P2W as it gets....

Get this - THE STATS ARE THE SAME - at lvl 80 Armor is the same - looks are different. NOT P2W - P2M (Pay 2 Model) - maybe....

I am confused, what weapons can you buy with real money.  I haven't seen any in the cash shop.  So we haven't even got to the point that of the stats being the same.  YOu can't buy anything other than Gems with money.  

Also the only armor you can get with Gems is a skin, no stats.  Why are people making stuff up. 

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

9/19/12 5:42:12 PM#105
 
Originally posted by Uhwop

If ever there was a thread that demonstrated that most people aren't even paying attention to what they're reading, this would be it.

OP said that Anet told us there was no grind, that gear and level did not matter; which they did, and the OP pointed out correctly how that is wrong.

Bunch of peopel respond. 

They use the worlds GRINDING.  Something that Anet said wouldn't be there, that the OP pointed out is, and people are refuting the OP while actually stating there's a grind.  WTF? 

Uhm...

You don't have to grind anything in any game, kind of like duh.  However, if you want the better items you sure do, and that applies to GW2 as much as any other MMO out there. 

Except...

Anet said that didn't exist here. 

 

So what is it? 

Is it ok that the grind is there, and that level and gear actually matter?  or is it ok that Anet said those things weren't in the game, yet are, and that that's ok with you guys?  Because I'm really confused how people are argueing against the OP when everything he wrote is absolutely true. 

I was saying this in other games and I'm sure on this forum, when people said there was no gear treadmill, and that gear didn't matter.  They kept saying, "Anet said so" and I kept pointing out that it wasn't true.  That there own website made it very clear that there was gear, and that gear mattered, and that people would be grinding for gear. 

You grind for gear in GW2.  No matter how you slice it, it's exactly like every other themepark, gear grinding.  I'm not saying that's bad, but I have to agree with the OP.  Anet said it wasn't a part of the game, and it is.  Just becasue "you don't have to" doesn't make it not there.  You don't have to grind for anything in any game.  You can just get to max level and then quit, but that's not really what people do. 

WvW sucks when you're shooting someone, at full health, and then suddenly you're dead.  It's because max level players with good gear make boosting rather pointless.  20k HP doesn't really mean much when someone has the gear to do that much damage in just a few seconds, and if you want to PvP against those people in WvW you need to grind for the gear, or spend real money to get it.

Completly wrong on all levels. If someone can get their max stat gear from crafting that you can max by just picking everything in your way or with the money you end up with at lvl 80(whole set of 80 costs around 14g including weapons) Then its not grinding.

You people are confusing progresion and grind. There were people that had max lvl gear 4 days after the game launched.

Also on the point on WvW. LOL if you are getting 1 shoted by somone at any point after 30 then its you and not your stats. I have seen people lvl 40 take down lvl 80 players with the correct builds.

  Nevulus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1286

9/19/12 5:46:17 PM#106
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by AegisSaga

The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

- You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

- Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

1. exotics make a difference but are not required to complete dungeons

2. downscaling from upper levels makes you more powerful because you still have access to better gear / Traits / Skills

 

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_level_adjustment

 Skills and equipment are retained, so the area is easier because of this, but should still be challenging to play.

 

wheres the contradiction ?

Wrong, my 80 thief with zero traits, and the same basic utility skills from lvl 15 can 3-4 shot everything in lower level zones, even with green level appropriate items.

 

  Randayn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 775

9/19/12 6:31:39 PM#107
Originally posted by SteeJanz
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by Randayn
Originally posted by Rokurgepta
Sorry but Pay to Win implies you can get something with money that you can't get in game any other way. That you are BUYING an advantage that the others can't get unless they too spend money. Simply not true in GW2.

So with this definition, Runes of Magic is NOT pay to win.....but it really is???

Having played Runes of Magic, and emphasizing on the comment you're responding to, 

Pay to Win means that 

1. there are things in the game needed to do content. In Runes of Magic, you need gear of particular level in order to do various dungeon content. 

2. the only reasonable way to get this gear is to use diamonds to buy it.  You could farm it, but it can take days of grinding. This is not reasonable.

GW2 doesnt fit either of these. I don't need a particular toughness or power to do any dungeon.  If I'm level 30 and have used any of the gear I've picked up along the way, I will be able to perform the dungeon. 

In GW2 I can attempt to get things like legendary gear or exotic gear or matching gear, but these things aren't needed to play the dungeon or acess any content.  The help they give u is margional at best.  

Thus, GW2 is not pay to win. 

# 2 applies completely....whether ANET intended it or not, people that run dungeon runs or are elites will start asking for the gear that you either have to by gems for or farm gold for.  Again, this is poor design (or intentional) from ANET...

There will ALWAYS be people like this in every game - 'You can't join because your armor is ont elite'. Then I don't need to play with them - I have my guild to play with alon with other friends who don't care a lick for it. People being that way DOESN'T mean it it P2W - sorry.

 

I will give an example from GW1. In GvG or in HoH, may people believe you should only use a weapon mod 15% above 50 and that anything else was usless. The problem is 14% above 50, on average only lowered DPS by 1% - it was just elitism only - not playing the game. It is the same with the Elite armors - they give so little.

 

It is not a poor design, well maybe - poor design of MMO players.

any MMO that doesnt consider the human element has poor designers.  Also, thanks for using ANOTHER Anet game to prove a point. 

Fact - elitist's exhist

Fact - they will require the best

Fiction - farming/grinding for "the best" is just as easy as paying for them with RMT's

= P2W.....

You are missing the point - no game can be designed to remove elitism. It is inherent in our nature as human beings - I am better than you because - all you have to do is look at the American Elections and see elitism on both sides at work.

 

It is not P2W - I was on a GW1 GvG team and played several teams the were known to have bought accounts because they had the best gear - they lost because they thought it was all gear. You are missing the point - you think everything playes like WoW or Rift and games don't (TSW and GW2 come to mind).

 

The way to deal with elitiism is ignore them or grind them into a grease spot - not hard to do either.

I wouldn't say that GW2 plays differently than those games...TSW, yeah...not GW2...it's the same with even less imho.  but I really wanted you to focus on this line more than any of the others:

 

Fiction - farming/grinding for "the best" is just as easy as paying for them with RMT's

The fact that you can buy a product with Real money and exchange it for in-game gold is as P2W as it gets....

Get this - THE STATS ARE THE SAME - at lvl 80 Armor is the same - looks are different. NOT P2W - P2M (Pay 2 Model) - maybe....

I am confused, what weapons can you buy with real money.  I haven't seen any in the cash shop.  So we haven't even got to the point that of the stats being the same.  YOu can't buy anything other than Gems with money.  

Also the only armor you can get with Gems is a skin, no stats.  Why are people making stuff up. 

I am so glad I've got an attentive audience (/sarcasm)...

I SAID - YOU CAN USE GEMS THAT YOU BOUGHT WITH REAL MONEY TO GET GOLD AND USE IT AT YOUR DISCRETION AT THE AUCTION HOUSE!   That is P2W....

  chrisatron

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 143

9/19/12 6:44:52 PM#108

I love how these days, people won't even bother to read or understand the points made by the OP or other people defending his very valid points. It's like you have to back-track over and over again just so people fully understand what It Is you were actually talking about; it's very frustrating... 

Also, If you can buy gear In a cash shop, with real money and with that gear instantly be ahead of most other players in terms of damage etc then that Is clearly P2W. Even If you can get that gear yourself In the game; It still makes It P2W. It basicallly cuts out all the guff and gives you instant glory. 

Here's a valid point, what If you could buy tier gear In WoW's cash shop?

Full Tier 11 (or whatever It Is now) for the low price of £20.00

Would that not be P2W? or would that be perfectly legitimate. 

Follow a blind man, shame on you. Preach that he can see, well... you're a moron. 

 

  Medicated03

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/09
Posts: 41

9/19/12 9:30:57 PM#109
Originally posted by chrisatron

I love how these days, people won't even bother to read or understand the points made by the OP or other people defending his very valid points. It's like you have to back-track over and over again just so people fully understand what It Is you were actually talking about; it's very frustrating... 

Also, If you can buy gear In a cash shop, with real money and with that gear instantly be ahead of most other players in terms of damage etc then that Is clearly P2W. Even If you can get that gear yourself In the game; It still makes It P2W. It basicallly cuts out all the guff and gives you instant glory. 

Here's a valid point, what If you could buy tier gear In WoW's cash shop?

Full Tier 11 (or whatever It Is now) for the low price of £20.00

Would that not be P2W? or would that be perfectly legitimate. 

Follow a blind man, shame on you. Preach that he can see, well... you're a moron. 

 

+1 your first paragraph they have been doing since day 1, its part of the fanboys defense mechanism, they always use this tactic when defending GW2.

Now im gonna put this simply, if i can drop $500 on gems, use that gold to lvl to 80 in a few hours via crafting and have really good gear for my brand new 1 day lvl 80 char, i call that pay to win, sure i will be missing skill points but w.e if you can buy a max lvl toon with gems then its pay to win, may as well just set up an account market lol. Saddest thing is $500 is possibly way more than needed right now to craft your way to cap with gems.

Pay to win is simply gaining advantage over non paying players, which you can clearly do in GW2, its not on the same scope as PWI wher you can pay to 1 shot people but its pay to win reguardless.

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

9/19/12 9:33:30 PM#110
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by dageeza

Nerfing everything that is fun and or profitable is very contradictary to what GW2 was suppose to be and as an avid fan of this game i can honestly say i see it starting to take an unfortunate bait and switch type approach like D3..

 

Execpt that the anti-farming code is, supposed to anyways, only kick in if you repeat the event a lot. It doesn't kick in if you do different things in between each event. For instance, choosing a different path in a dungeon, or doing a different DE. 

This isn't any different than GW1. GW1 HAD ANTI FARMING CODES. I thought GW2 already had this system in place. I'm surprised its as big of an issue as people are making it out to be.

People were making enough to buy 450g compnents for legendary items with only a few days of farming. They're mad that they can't anymore.

 

The fact is tehre's little in the game that needs gold and costs any appreciable degree. Siege? Not unless you buy in bulk. Crafting mats? Same...maybe if you're powerlevelling a toon through crafting, that could be a problem to you. Legendaries? OK yup, expensive as hell. 

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

9/19/12 10:29:18 PM#111


Originally posted by Randayn

GW2 allows you to buy items that can be converted into in-game gold.  If that's not P2W I don't know what is.....


So you're saying it's pay 2 win when you pay $ to convert to gold to buy the same things that people making gold in a couple days can also get? Isn't pay 2 win with items only available through cash shop and not available to the free player?


Once you reach level 70 gold is damn easy to make.


  LIOKI

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 167

9/19/12 10:37:53 PM#112
IMO (that seems to be the big thing to start with these days) anytime you can whip out the credit card and bypass the grind you have successfully "paid to win". Being able to get the same gear the old fashioned way does not nullify the fact, it just means you did it the hard way.  

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

9/19/12 11:30:14 PM#113

This thread makes me sad. The biggest problem in the game isn't gear difference between players or how someone else got their gear, it is population difference between servers that are causing WvWvW to suffer. Please just think big picture here for a moment. Gear will be meaningless in a few months when everyone is strolling around in the good stuff anyways.

/sadpanda

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4147

9/19/12 11:32:27 PM#114
Originally posted by NaughtyP

This thread makes me sad. The biggest problem in the game isn't gear difference between players or how someone else got their gear, it is population difference between servers that are causing WvWvW to suffer. Please just think big picture here for a moment. Gear will be meaningless in a few months when everyone is strolling around in the good stuff anyways.

/sadpanda

Yes that is true. Then it's up to skill and a nice looking hat! :)

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  lunarwitch00

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/12
Posts: 43

9/19/12 11:38:50 PM#115

i just find it amusing

 

people want more diminished returns

 

ive never seen such ludacris stuff lately when it comes to games and community

 

why so many people hate because someone wants to grind

 

or do a dungeon multiple times

 

why is that considered exploiting?

 

it seems to me just playing the game is exploiting anymore.

 

farming exploit pvp exploit gaining experience doing events all exploits

 

playing more than an hour exploit.

 

everything is an exploit

 

o wait its only an exploit if you do it repeatedly?

come on whats wrong with all of you

 

whats funny and the best bots never have issues with diminished returns

all these caps only affect real players and people.

 

anymore its basicly not balancing the game

 

its balancing casuals vs hardcores?

 

causals complain about hardcores and hardcores complain about casuals no reason for such a circle

 

and again what is wrong with everyone

  hotix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/11
Posts: 140

9/19/12 11:44:33 PM#116
Rofl at the idiots that say a whole set of gear costs 14g at 80. That's 3 pieces dipshit. Or  2 weapons and a savings for the next. Good thing the fanboi's willl save this game once again. Glad i made some money from this game when I did.
  Randayn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/16/12
Posts: 775

9/20/12 8:18:55 AM#117
Originally posted by sookster54

 


Originally posted by Randayn

GW2 allows you to buy items that can be converted into in-game gold.  If that's not P2W I don't know what is.....


So you're saying it's pay 2 win when you pay $ to convert to gold to buy the same things that people making gold in a couple days can also get? Isn't pay 2 win with items only available through cash shop and not available to the free player?

 


Once you reach level 70 gold is damn easy to make.

what they've done in a couple days, you've done in 1 minute depending on how slow you type numbers and if you can find your debit/credit card.

Also, if you know anything about economics, you'd know that hard sought items will have a value consistent to the ease of obtaining gold.  Im sure the economy is fubar'd now, but it will work itself out and this will happen.

  Tekaelon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/09/08
Posts: 493

9/20/12 9:06:33 AM#118
Sorry. I have played gear grinders and this ain't it.  The world seems to throw nice items at you throughout the leveling experience. 
  chrisatron

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 143

9/20/12 11:24:46 AM#119
Originally posted by bone12
Originally posted by AegisSaga

The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

 

- My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

 

- You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

 

- Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

 

- SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

 

Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

 

- Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

 

- Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

 

- Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

 

BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

 

You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

 

 

[mod edit]

Did you just call someone a kid for making valid points? wow... 

Also guild wars 2 has to be the most casual game I've ever played, It Is far from hardcore; have you played EvE? 

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

9/20/12 11:51:43 AM#120


Originally posted by LIOKI
IMO (that seems to be the big thing to start with these days) anytime you can whip out the credit card and bypass the grind you have successfully "paid to win". Being able to get the same gear the old fashioned way does not nullify the fact, it just means you did it the hard way.  

You still have to get your toon to level 70-80 before you can start getting the good stuff. There's not much of a grind since you get all the things you need while playing the game and gathering mats as you go. Those who rushed to 80 and skipped a good chunk of the world's content are the ones that need to shell out cash to get the things they need.


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