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General Discussion  » People like the old way?....

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74 posts found
  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

9/19/12 3:59:01 PM#21
Originally posted by SirenRose

The problem is everyone keeps looking at mmo players and talking about them like they are one entity with one mind.  No wonder we as a community look so biopolar and like we don't know what we want.  Granted some of us may actually be bipolar.  Some of us may not know what we want.  But the truth is that mmo players encompass a vast and very diverse group of people with gaming expectations that range to include everything under the sun.  You can never make everyone happy all the time, and if you try to do just that, you set yourself up for failure.  This is true in life, and it is true in the world of mmos.

Pretty much.

First: Are you certain, OP, that these people asking for a change are the same people complaining about new mechanics in GW2?

Second: Might it just be that some players were actually asking about far bolder "changes" than what GW2 provides here? 

And third: If you're looking for a change, does that mean "any change is good"? 

 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/19/12 4:00:08 PM#22
Originally posted by derek39
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 


You are right. It's absolutely a matter of opinion. I recognize that GW2 delivers everything many ever wanted it too. But not everyone shares that opinion and I wanted to be clear that not everyone is upset because they didn't get WoW.

Oh yes, Everything related to entertainment is a matter of opinion from every brain across the globe.

But....What else exactly CAN they do different with MMO's?

Meh, Let's save that discussion for another thread. This one is pretty much finished lol.

and that's why if they put out the most amazingly perfect sanbox/themepark hybrid.. people would still be bitching nonstop that it isn't what they expected or wanted.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  SuprGamerX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/05/09
Posts: 538

9/19/12 4:00:40 PM#23
Originally posted by derek39

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

I've said it countless times and I'll say it again , P2P brings out the best community in a MMO.   F2P/B2P only brings idiotic unskilled gamers that can't do anything and just whine and bitch 24/7.  With a P2P those cry babies will cry for a month and gtfo then we get some peace of quiet.   THANK GOD I still have EVE-Online , the day that EVE goes F2P , it will be the end of the MMO universe and my 18 years playing experience in MMO's!!!

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/19/12 4:03:55 PM#24
Originally posted by SuprGamerX
Originally posted by derek39

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

I've said it countless times and I'll say it again , P2P brings out the best community in a MMO.   F2P/B2P only brings idiotic unskilled gamers that can't do anything and just whine and bitch 24/7.  With a P2P those cry babies will cry for a month and gtfo then we get some peace of quiet.   THANK GOD I still have EVE-Online , the day that EVE goes F2P , it will be the end of the MMO universe and my 18 years playing experience in MMO's!!!

hasn't been my experience over the past 15 years of playing these games.. not at all.. really it's the game itself and how the mechanics are setup overall I found that dicated how well the community developed.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  TheIronLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/12
Posts: 270

Act with wisdom, but act.

9/19/12 4:09:16 PM#25
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 


Originally posted by derek39
I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

 

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

 


 

You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.

I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.

  User Deleted
9/19/12 4:11:15 PM#26
Originally posted by SuprGamerX

I've said it countless times and I'll say it again , P2P brings out the best community in a MMO.   F2P/B2P only brings idiotic unskilled gamers that can't do anything and just whine and bitch 24/7.  With a P2P those cry babies will cry for a month and gtfo then we get some peace of quiet.   THANK GOD I still have EVE-Online , the day that EVE goes F2P , it will be the end of the MMO universe and my 18 years playing experience in MMO's!!!

That, IMO, is total bullshit good sir.

Pay to play, I would argue, can bring in even worse players than either F2P or B2P because P2P MMOs are more dependent on subscription numbers than either B2P or F2P, and thus can't really afford to ban any of the players who do act like asshats lest they want to see a drop in their sub count. Hell, that's the mentality that WoW devs seem to have, at least based on my experiences.

  Anubisan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/05
Posts: 1834

9/19/12 4:12:05 PM#27

While I do enjoy and appreciate most of the innovations of GW2, there are some things that I do miss from the traditional MMORPG model.

I think that the new questing system, dynamic events, down-leveling and item stats system are all great... BUT I personally don't think they needed to remove the trinity... and I think they may have shot themselves in the foot by doing so. Without dedicated tanks and healers, the dungeons become chaotic cluster ****s that are very disorganized and often completely lack any sort of coordinated teamwork other than picking each other up when knocked down.

I have played both tanks and healers in many games and I have always highly enjoyed those roles. They didn't need to be fixed in my opinion... SWTOR had a good solution to the lack of healers/tanks in other games by allowing many of the classes to assume those roles in certain specs. I know many people say that you can do the same thing in GW2, but it really is NOT the same in practice. There really is no way to be a true dedicated healer or tank... and that is kind of annoying to me. I really think that the lack of these roles will make dungeon design very difficult for the ArenaNet team to get right.

This being said, I love virtually everything else about GW2, so it hasn't been a game-breaker for me.

  TheIronLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/12
Posts: 270

Act with wisdom, but act.

9/19/12 4:36:52 PM#28
Originally posted by Anubisan

While I do enjoy and appreciate most of the innovations of GW2, there are some things that I do miss from the traditional MMORPG model.

I think that the new questing system, dynamic events, down-leveling and item stats system are all great... BUT I personally don't think they needed to remove the trinity... and I think they may have shot themselves in the foot by doing so. Without dedicated tanks and healers, the dungeons become chaotic cluster ****s that are very disorganized and often completely lack any sort of coordinated teamwork other than picking each other up when knocked down.

I have played both tanks and healers in many games and I have always highly enjoyed those roles. They didn't need to be fixed in my opinion... SWTOR had a good solution to the lack of healers/tanks in other games by allowing many of the classes to assume those roles in certain specs. I know many people say that you can do the same thing in GW2, but it really is NOT the same in practice. There really is no way to be a true dedicated healer or tank... and that is kind of annoying to me. I really think that the lack of these roles will make dungeon design very difficult for the ArenaNet team to get right.

This being said, I love virtually everything else about GW2, so it hasn't been a game-breaker for me.

I've played MMO's for a long time(not that it really matters to some) and I never enjoyed the fact that you have to rely so heavily on 2 people in the group: The healer and the tank. I think in every experience i had it boiled down to - if the raid or instance went south you got to blame either the healer or the tank, but if it went well the dps was praised for downing the boss so fast(though occasionally the healer would be praised for awesome ressing). It just made it far too easy to point the finger at someone else. The idea that "this one guy(or two guys) better be good or we're screwed" always got annoying. I prefer the way GW2 does things. If we fail it's our own fault not the fault of a supposedly incompetent healer.

NOW there are those, like yourself, who enjoy the dedication to a role which is what ROLE PLAYING is all about, but can't you role play without getting the brunt of the pressure? Can't we all be on an epic quest and have vital roles in the group. DPS is great, but I've seen several games where a healer/tank combo duo dungeons and reap the rewards for themselves. Usually some kind of E-couple(dont even get me started on E-couples).

So i praise GW2's system and exodus of the trinity I think it will bring much needed change.

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/19/12 4:37:42 PM#29
Originally posted by Anubisan

While I do enjoy and appreciate most of the innovations of GW2, there are some things that I do miss from the traditional MMORPG model.

I think that the new questing system, dynamic events, down-leveling and item stats system are all great... BUT I personally don't think they needed to remove the trinity... and I think they may have shot themselves in the foot by doing so. Without dedicated tanks and healers, the dungeons become chaotic cluster ****s that are very disorganized and often completely lack any sort of coordinated teamwork other than picking each other up when knocked down.

I have played both tanks and healers in many games and I have always highly enjoyed those roles. They didn't need to be fixed in my opinion... SWTOR had a good solution to the lack of healers/tanks in other games by allowing many of the classes to assume those roles in certain specs. I know many people say that you can do the same thing in GW2, but it really is NOT the same in practice. There really is no way to be a true dedicated healer or tank... and that is kind of annoying to me. I really think that the lack of these roles will make dungeon design very difficult for the ArenaNet team to get right.

This being said, I love virtually everything else about GW2, so it hasn't been a game-breaker for me.

Sorry, I don't mind what your saying because i understand it completely but you are wrong about one thing.  The trinity still exists, and Anet never said they were getting rid of it.  Anet said they were getting rid of the hard-set roles of the Holy trinity.  I know that is what you mean but that is a HUGE difference.  The trinity still exists and following the rules that come with it makes things less chaotic and the more a group follows those rules the better dungeons go.   What would happen if you took 5 dps to a Holy Trinity dungeon, it would be choas and failing would happen.  The roles were removed to give the players something different not to remove something broken, just something over used.

If a group took the time to make sure their builds, traits, skills and tactics supported the trinity, then you would find that the dungeons are just as enjoyable as the holy trinity ones.  I was pissed after my first successful completion of an explorable mode dungeon because I died 30 freaking times.  I was even thinking that dungeons weren't fun and they needed to change.  Then I thought about, we consisted of 5 glass cannons.  The fact that we got threw it as 5 glass cannons was because we could rez and run back rez and run back.  That isn't a bad thing and probably should be that way.  After putting together a support build and making sure my group did the same, we ran the same dungeon with maybe 3 rez's.  It was pretty eye opening. 

Why do we expect to take 5 dps to a dungeon in GW2 when we would never do it with the holy trinity.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4879

9/19/12 4:38:34 PM#30


Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
  You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.


It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

"In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  User Deleted
9/19/12 4:40:10 PM#31
Originally posted by Xerith
Some people just wan't to complain about everything. You could hand these people a giant sack of cash, and they will complain that its too heavy. All you can do is ignore them, close the post and find something better to read....it's what I do. 

Hehehe too heavy.

  Nevulus

Elite Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1283

9/19/12 4:42:01 PM#32
Originally posted by derek39

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

Find me an example of someone saying they hate the trinity system, and then played gw2, and changed their mind where they want it back. Until then this is heresay.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/19/12 4:42:49 PM#33
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

 

It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

"In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Nevulus

Elite Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1283

9/19/12 4:48:18 PM#34
Originally posted by derek39

... or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

Gear does matter in WvWvW PVP, so I am not sure what you are implying.

  TheIronLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/12
Posts: 270

Act with wisdom, but act.

9/19/12 4:50:04 PM#35
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 


Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
  You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

 

The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.

 


 

It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

"In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

Sounds like you're walking in on a dynamic event already in progress. It's like walking in on your friend about to get some snookie. You don't quite know what's going on but can connect the dots enough to know..."theres some snookie about to happen here"...Most dynamic events do effect the world around you. Centaurs raid a camp you see them ride in from whatever camp they were at. They knock over buildings maybe set up catapults, burn things, etc. The player is then asked to help. Obviously killing the centaurs is one way, but then theres the other issues like ...oh i don't know, the buildings on fire? So now you have to put out the fires, help them rebuild the buildings and destroy centaur catapults to stop their siege. Once that is done then the event chains and its time to retaliate. Both you and the NPCs want blood! So you rally together and storm into the centaur camp and strike while the iron is hottest. You kill a whole metric-monkey-butt ton of centaur and then their cheifton gets all sorts of butt hurt and comes out to give you his monologue about how inferior you are and then wraps up by calling you "two legs".

The point here is that you made an effect. You defended a town from centaurs, the town was thankful, the guard wanted blood, asked you to join them in their raid, you kill tons of thingies, slay a chiefton and are rewarded for everything. And guess what...as you walk into the sunset, wiping the sweat from your brow, you look over your shoulder to see...the town is still saved. you walk alittle furthur and you look back again; still saved.

Come back in a few hours after the centaurs have removed your boot from their (insert word for ass here) and find that they are attempting to raid the town again. The guys are pretty persistent. And you get to put on your good steel toe boots, you know the ones you use to kick freeloaders out of your apartment, and kick some more.....tushie.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4879

9/19/12 4:51:55 PM#36


Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 
  It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.

I hope they do. Because at levels 20, 30 and 50, I've seen little variation in them, and While I hear they become more involved at higher levels, It's still an issue if I have to wait 50 levels before I start seeing it.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  SteeJanz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 346

9/19/12 4:57:25 PM#37
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 


Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
  You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.

 

The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right?

The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.


 

It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do.

Go to GW2 website and look up DEs

"In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions.
Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not."

That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.

This is a blatant misinfroming post.  You will of course accuse me of attacking you a third time but the truth is there are tons of quests just as they described.  Your blatant over simplification of how it works has been explained over and over.  DE's have different stages, and each one automatically kicks off based on the state they are in.  The my have 8 different stages so yes they will get to one end or another but it is up to the player base on what stage they will be in.  If the players don't do anything then the DE will be at one end of the DE if they players chose to do something it will be at the other end.  At what stage it is in depends on the player base.  So it gives the feeling as they described.  This approach is completely different than the standard quest hub, but for some reason people try to act like they are the same. 

The quest type will never change, because there are only so many that can be done.  I believe most have put it into the 5 D's.  Destroy, defend, drop ,deliver, and discover.   To say that guild wars 2 questing is the same as other games because it has the 5 D's is nothing more than looking for something to complain about.

I am not saying DE's are better than quest hubs because that is the subjective.  But act to like they are the same is ignorance.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4879

9/19/12 5:06:02 PM#38


Originally posted by SteeJanz

Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

Originally posted by TheIronLegion

Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?  
  You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.
I guess once you get past the presentation of any game then no game will ever give us anything new. Shooters, though there are a ton that are vastly different, underneat all the shiny graphics, varying guns, and cool announcer voice-overs they are all exactly the same. You point and shoot. Hard to innovate on something so exactly defined.   The MMO, in the grand scheme of things, is a bit less strictly defined as an MMO could be anything. But one thing remains; since the early days of MMO's several things have come to be expected from anything wishing to call itself an MMO. You must be able to connect to several others users at once, chat, quest together, group, topple giants, play together. Ofcours there are more specific systems as well: Combat, quest, trade, PvP. Things like this have come to be expected by everyone. Consequently they'll judge every new feature that's added based on older similar features. Even if the feature changes the way something is done or adds something else that is entirely different from anything preceeding it; It will always be judged by its older features. So saying that "below the presentation of it, very little is new or different" is like saying "underneath the hood of that Ford, if you look past the V8, the reimagined cooling system, 11,300 lbs. trailer weight limit, Integrated Trailer Brake Controller (TBC), and its internal full steel fram...it presents nothing new to trucks as it is still a truck that tows things, right? The way I've always seen it is like this: Once something is made the only way to innovate past it is to add newer features and he who has the best features wins. Unless, of course, you just want to make something entirely new. In which case you'd have your own genre of ....well, stuff.
  It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
This is a blatant misinfroming post.  You will of course accuse me of attacking you a third time but the truth is there are tons of quests just as they described.  Your blatant over simplification of how it works has been explained over and over.  DE's have different stages, and each one automatically kicks off based on the state they are in.  The my have 8 different stages so yes they will get to one end or another but it is up to the player base on what stage they will be in.  If the players don't do anything then the DE will be at one end of the DE if they players chose to do something it will be at the other end.  At what stage it is in depends on the player base.  So it gives the feeling as they described.  This approach is completely different than the standard quest hub, but for some reason people try to act like they are the same. 

The quest type will never change, because there are only so many that can be done.  I believe most have put it into the 5 D's.  Destroy, defend, drop ,deliver, and discover.   To say that guild wars 2 questing is the same as other games because it has the 5 D's is nothing more than looking for something to complain about.

I am not saying DE's are better than quest hubs because that is the subjective.  But act to like they are the same is ignorance.


Thank you for the technical breakdown of DE's. Now that I have read your post, the next time I see an orange circle I'll think back to your response. Then I can convince myself that "Hey, this only looks and feels like just another escort quest, but really there is so much more depth to it and I'll no longer feel like "Oh this again" Because now I see that I've been doing it wrong.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

9/19/12 5:17:33 PM#39
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 


Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 
  It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.

 

I hope they do. Because at levels 20, 30 and 50, I've seen little variation in them, and While I hear they become more involved at higher levels, It's still an issue if I have to wait 50 levels before I start seeing it.

yes there are lots of repeat event types but each one does have a story and purpose if you follow them through from start to end.. obviously some more elaborate than others and Iv'e noticed the higher I get the cause and effect is little more lasting and obvious. Issue now is oversaturation of zones just too many people causing very few to actually fail(yes they scale but only so far) not allowing you to see effects of failed events because you just don't see them fail as often.. Plenty have osme nice cause and effect even in early levels there's a couple threads on this in the PVE section.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4879

9/19/12 5:22:58 PM#40


Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 
  It's not about what they could have done. It's what they said they were going to do. Go to GW2 website and look up DEs "In Guild Wars 2, your actions really matter and your choices have an impact on the world around you. Instead of static, boring quests in an unchanging world, our dynamic event system creates a living, breathing world that bustles with energy and responds to player actions. Dynamic events change and evolve in response to how you interact with them, leaving lasting effects in the game world. If you save that village from ogres, they may return with siege weapons to counter attack or regroup in nearby caves. You can prevent bandits from destroying a town’s water supply or you can defend the workers who repair the damaged pumps. As in real life, every action has a consequence—intended or not." That's what they said DEs were. But what they are is an auto spawning orange circle that involves an escort quest or some variation such as defending a location, which is just a stationary escort quest.
again in your perspective.. yes they exaggerate a little especially when talking about early DE's but over I feel they do add to the feeling of a living world 100x more than static quest hub games.. yes they repeat but it's a balance thing trying to allow maximum # of players enjoy the content.. How much would it suck if a huge giant trampled a town to the ground and it was down for weeks and you just happened to miss that epic fight?... They have said DE's will be expanded upon and changed up so well see what the future holds for them.
  I hope they do. Because at levels 20, 30 and 50, I've seen little variation in them, and While I hear they become more involved at higher levels, It's still an issue if I have to wait 50 levels before I start seeing it.
yes there are lots of repeat event types but each one does have a story and purpose if you follow them through from start to end.. obviously some more elaborate than others and Iv'e noticed the higher I get the cause and effect is little more lasting and obvious. Issue now is oversaturation of zones just too many people causing very few to actually fail(yes they scale but only so far) not allowing you to see effects of failed events because you just don't see them fail as often.. Plenty have osme nice cause and effect even in early levels there's a couple threads on this in the PVE section.

OK, each has a story, and they are supposed to build off each other, but it's like what Iron said. I must be walking into it half way. But then what do you suggest for that? I'm wandering through the zone looking for areas I have yet to complete and I see the orange bar pop up on my screen and I hustle as fast as I can over to it. But this experiences is far to common. Wandering around and DEs are already in progress. I can't control that, I simply can go with it. So then, why is the story important anymore?

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

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