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9/19/12 3:21:41 PM#41
The larger the Company and the more money involved- The less risk they take and the slower they are to embrace change. The MMO market (at this time) is beyond stale- Its in a very similar state to General Motors from years ago pushing the Hummer when Gas prices are forcing folks into economy cars- Then wondering how they could fail. |
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Kyleran
 Bitter Vet™
Joined: 9/13/06
Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV |
9/19/12 3:21:57 PM#42
Originally posted by grimal Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels) "What gamers want ... is new game play patterns different from what they've experienced before" - Axehilt |
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9/19/12 3:24:32 PM#43
Originally posted by Kyleran It was 13 years, even worse, as I posted a little above this.
Also you can find data that, with the obvious exception of juggernaught movies like The Avengers and Dark Knight, profits have gone down per movie despite the increase in ticket costs. This is because of both the decrease in ticket sales but also the cost of making movies has gone up drastically. |
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Yamota
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/05/03
There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand |
9/19/12 3:28:05 PM#44
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with. Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies, GW2 sold over 2 million. I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.  |
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9/19/12 3:29:18 PM#45
Originally posted by Yamota Didn't read my other post did you. I'll give you a minute. |
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9/19/12 3:29:34 PM#46
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with. But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that. Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros |
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9/19/12 3:33:55 PM#47
If I look at my recent singleplayer rpg, DAO, ME, witcher, skyrim the games are very different. If I look at MMORPG, wow, rift, swtor and tsw the combat system is fairly similar, levelling is bit different but endgame is identical.
The ones destroying the market are the ones that release mmorpg with identical and/or underdeveloped endgame content. |
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9/19/12 3:35:12 PM#48
Originally posted by grimal You're that guy, ok. You are correct. People love all television, especially reality television, that they have cancelled their service in order to stop themselves from watching to much TV. It was just too good and they couldn't control themselves.
People went to the movies less and less because they decided movies were too good and made the rest of the world seem so sad and pathetic that they forced themselves to stop going. The 13 years also stops any economic downturn reasoning so what else could it be? Clearly it is that movies are too good.
Several game studios have been shut and more downsized along with games shut down permanently because, well they were too good and it wasn't fair to the competition.
You are correct. The entertianment industry is making products that are just SO GOOD, that people have to force themselves to use them less. It is definetly, in no way shape or form, that the products are subpar and people are fed up. Never accept logical lines of thought as those are the seeds of the devil. |
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Yamota
Elite Member
Joined: 10/05/03
There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand |
9/19/12 3:35:48 PM#49
Originally posted by Kyleran The gross sales in dollars has been going up, inspite of low inflation and deep recession. If anything this chart shows that the industry is doing just fine. |
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Yamota
Elite Member
Joined: 10/05/03
There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand |
9/19/12 3:39:44 PM#50
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf I read it and did not see any credi ble sources. Just text that can have written by anyone. Cite your sources. |
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9/19/12 3:41:01 PM#51
I personally hope it collapses and all these douchy AAA companies go away. I'd rather see the real mmoRPG players pay for indy games that will create fun, community driven gameplay again. Call me an elitist, but I'm not a big fan of mainstream anything, really. Whenever a product is made for the mainstream, you can bet that generally means it has been dumbed down to oblivion. (see the iPhone 5 for example) Those of us who are sick of this crap, are probably looking for emergent gameplay. I recieved an email frrom ANet today, talking about GW2's social gameplay, and I almost laughed myself to death. I actually enjoy GW2 as a short-term game, and I'm taking my sweet time in there, but to claim this game has any features that drive the community toward being social is ludicrous. The features they listed were basically the mob-tagging which was referred to as "cooperative gameplay", and then PvP. Those were their advertised social features in their mass email today. What a joke. I don't know what's going to happen with this genre, but I do believe it's eating itself. If there is no profit here and it becomes a gamble to make MMO, they will be gone. An article I read about Funcom the other day said the larger company plans to start focusing on smaller games because of how bad this market is. However, the real problem is that none of these companies are doing anything but trying to copy WoW, expecting the customer base to never evolve as a whole and want more. Those of us who were around in the early days and were priviliaged to play a sandbox type game know that this genre has been simplified down to nothing over the past several years. I don't even know if the masses of players even really want to play a game, or just watch a game be played on the screen in front of them. I do know, as SOE mentioned the other day, that chasing content is NEVER, EVER going to work. Emergent gameplay (sandbox features) is the only direction these games have to go now. |
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Yamota
Elite Member
Joined: 10/05/03
There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand |
9/19/12 3:42:25 PM#52
Originally posted by grimal The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years. |
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9/19/12 3:42:50 PM#53
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
How about the correlation between traditional TV and Movie viewing declining and the rise of Internet use with the easy access to movies and TV in way they the veiwer can control?
But the real reason is there is more entertainment option these days in 1920's it was the Music hall theatres, Silent Movies, Books 1950's TV, Movies, Theatre, Records, Books, 1980's Cable TV, Video Games, Home Video, Theatre, CD's, Cinema, Books, 2000, Internet (which is the biggest change in humanity since the Industrial Revolution and has put us in the Information Age), Cinema, MP3, DVD, Video Games, 100's of TV channels, Books. Access to entertainment has never been so diverse and easy to get as it is with the Internet traditional entertainment platforms are bound to suffer. Add to that a deep recession in the western world for the past 4 years and you should get my point. This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session. |
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9/19/12 3:45:56 PM#54
Originally posted by Torx I wont speak for the whole community.
I feel we shouldn't have the same attitude about mmorpg as we do about fps and rpg games. The mmorpg is a higher form or atleast was, and was intended to be. The mmoprg was a virtual world, while your fps games were lobbies, and rpgs were simgle player.
Gear or items as they were called have been a part of the faberic of rpgs since before they were on the computer. Skill progression, and items through adventure. There was always more adventure to be had, and skills and power to be gained. These pc virtual worlds (mmorpgs) sought to bring these things to light.
Asking, better yet demanding these things should be applauded not attacked. If a developer can not bring these things in the opinion of the community, or further more move away from these things, the game should die or atleast be called to task.
If the genre can not get it together, I would rather it die than take my money by selling to my hope and telling me what I want to hear. DamonVile- Games built for disposable players are now apparently built by disposable employees. |
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9/19/12 3:53:06 PM#55
Originally posted by Yamota I disagree with this. You know what sells well during hard times? Cheap escapism. Drugs, booze, movies, games, etc. Movies have become repetitive boring copies of each other, and the few gems that aren't are often rewarded (unless they are too cerebral for today's population). Same with TV shows. How many good shows have been cancelled to make room for reality TV and other bullshit that required zero brain activity? I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain. Don't you really know what the problem is? I mean can't you feel it yourself? Show me one AAA mmorpg game that game out in the last seven years which is *significantly different* than WoW. Even GW2 is mostly just very well repackaged features we've all played for several years now. It's still just a race to level cap, and a gear grind. There are no other features there to allow for player-driven content, or emergent gameplay at all. Is GW2 all that different in gameplay from Rift, or SWTOR, or LOTRO, or WoW, or TSW or anything else? The only game anyone can point to as being different is EVE, and unfortunately that game does not appeal to everyone. The *features* do, but the setting and content don't.
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9/19/12 3:54:45 PM#56
Originally posted by Yamota Gross sales does not equate to profits. Cost of making movies is much higher. Yes I know unless God himself comes down and tells you this, you won't accept it as truth, but it is the truth. |
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9/19/12 3:57:19 PM#57
So does this mean if I tell everyone no MMO satisfies me I get a free fuck?! All along it was so easy. Who'd a knew?
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9/19/12 3:57:27 PM#58
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf And it cost more money today ONLY because Movies need prettier explosions and special effects... Adding good actors (not overpaid stars) and a good script is second fiddle to studios getting "Big names" and "Jaw dropping" special effects which actually add far less to the movie but bring in far more $$$ as a general rule. |
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9/19/12 3:58:00 PM#59
Originally posted by MindTrigger I will tell my son the samething. DamonVile- Games built for disposable players are now apparently built by disposable employees. |
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Xzen
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 5/01/06
A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands. |
9/19/12 4:02:31 PM#60
Originally posted by Yamota Good movies also get bad ratings while bad ones get good ratings. I can blame people for what ever I feel like. That's the way blame works. I don't care if people like GW2s endgame. What corportation is blaming customers? The op was a post by a customer blaming other customers. All I got from the OP was he was calling out all the people that bitch and moan about a certain type of endgame and then bitch and moan that a game does not have the same endgame. |
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