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General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » X-post from Reddit: You are all destroying the MMO genre, and you don't even know why you act the way you do.

8 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
144 posts found
  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/19/12 4:21:41 PM#41

The larger the Company and the more money involved- The less risk they take and the slower they are to embrace change.

The MMO market (at this time) is beyond stale- Its in a very similar state to General Motors from years ago pushing the Hummer when Gas prices are forcing folks into economy cars- Then wondering how they could fail.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19378

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/19/12 4:21:57 PM#42
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

I do.  Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere.  Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion.  I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.

Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/19/12 4:24:32 PM#43
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

I do.  Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere.  Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion.  I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.

Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/

It was 13 years, even worse, as I posted a little above this.

 

Also you can find data that, with the obvious exception of juggernaught movies like The Avengers and Dark Knight, profits have gone down per movie despite the increase in ticket costs. This is because of both the decrease in ticket sales but also the cost of making movies has gone up drastically.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6637

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

9/19/12 4:28:05 PM#44
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.

Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies,  GW2 sold over 2 million.

I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/19/12 4:29:18 PM#45
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.

Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies,  GW2 sold over 2 million.

I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.

Didn't read my other post did you. I'll give you a minute.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2632

9/19/12 4:29:34 PM#46
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

Here's an excerpt from Televsion subscriber losses, I'll let you find your own articles and research:

 

But this quarter's losses were stark for DirecTV, which lost customers for the first time ever and for Time Warner, who lost customers for the tenth straight quarter and lost more than analysts expected. Comcast's loss of 169,000 customers was actually an improvement over previous quarters.

 

You can also find reports on how networks changed their programming due to loss of profitability margins on high end shows. You'll find information on how CBS decided to not follow that trend and keep putting out high cost higher quality shows. It is the most watched network on televsion as an added emphasis on how people do want good television and not reality TV.

 

Here is an excerpt about movie problems, again I'll let you find your own sources:

 

I hope you’re sitting down, because I have some difficult news to share: Almost everyone hates going to the movies. After cinema attendance hit at 16-year low last year, a new study has found that only 3% of U.S. consumers consider moviegoing “a frequent source of entertainment.” Is this news as bad as it seems? And if so, what can be done about it?

Maybe the most depressing thing about the survey in question is that it’s really easy to imagine why movies have fallen so dramatically in popularity (Two years ago, 28% of people rated moviegoing as a frequent source of entertainment, to give you an idea of just how sharp the decline is). After all, going to the movies is both expensive and, often, not that fun of an experience; bad crowds, bad seats and bad movies can all end up ruining the night out. When you start to think about all of the variables that can make moviegoing a less than optimal way to spend your time, suddenly alternative plans become much more attractive.

 

Hopefully with all of the layoffs, company shut downs, game shut downs etc. I don't really have to go get you excerpts about how the MMO genre isn't doing well, isn't meeting expectations, and how some companies have said there is no future in MMOs and do not want to put any money into developing new ones.

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  User Deleted
9/19/12 4:33:55 PM#47

If I look at my recent singleplayer rpg, DAO, ME, witcher, skyrim the games are very different. If I look at MMORPG, wow, rift, swtor and tsw the combat system is fairly similar, levelling is bit different but endgame is identical.

 

The ones destroying the market are the ones that release mmorpg with identical and/or underdeveloped endgame content.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/19/12 4:35:12 PM#48
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

Here's an excerpt from Televsion subscriber losses, I'll let you find your own articles and research:

 

But this quarter's losses were stark for DirecTV, which lost customers for the first time ever and for Time Warner, who lost customers for the tenth straight quarter and lost more than analysts expected. Comcast's loss of 169,000 customers was actually an improvement over previous quarters.

 

You can also find reports on how networks changed their programming due to loss of profitability margins on high end shows. You'll find information on how CBS decided to not follow that trend and keep putting out high cost higher quality shows. It is the most watched network on televsion as an added emphasis on how people do want good television and not reality TV.

 

Here is an excerpt about movie problems, again I'll let you find your own sources:

 

I hope you’re sitting down, because I have some difficult news to share: Almost everyone hates going to the movies. After cinema attendance hit at 16-year low last year, a new study has found that only 3% of U.S. consumers consider moviegoing “a frequent source of entertainment.” Is this news as bad as it seems? And if so, what can be done about it?

Maybe the most depressing thing about the survey in question is that it’s really easy to imagine why movies have fallen so dramatically in popularity (Two years ago, 28% of people rated moviegoing as a frequent source of entertainment, to give you an idea of just how sharp the decline is). After all, going to the movies is both expensive and, often, not that fun of an experience; bad crowds, bad seats and bad movies can all end up ruining the night out. When you start to think about all of the variables that can make moviegoing a less than optimal way to spend your time, suddenly alternative plans become much more attractive.

 

Hopefully with all of the layoffs, company shut downs, game shut downs etc. I don't really have to go get you excerpts about how the MMO genre isn't doing well, isn't meeting expectations, and how some companies have said there is no future in MMOs and do not want to put any money into developing new ones.

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

You're that guy, ok. You are correct. People love all television, especially reality television, that they have cancelled their service in order to stop themselves from watching to much TV. It was just too good and they couldn't control themselves.

 

People went to the movies less and less because they decided movies were too good and made the rest of the world seem so sad and pathetic that they forced themselves to stop going.  The 13 years also stops any economic downturn reasoning so what else could it be? Clearly it is that movies are too good.

 

Several game studios have been shut and more downsized along with games shut down permanently because, well they were too good and it wasn't fair to the competition.

 

You are correct. The entertianment industry is making products that are just SO GOOD, that people have to force themselves to use them less. It is definetly, in no way shape or form, that the products are subpar and people are fed up. Never accept logical lines of thought as those are the seeds of the devil.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6637

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

9/19/12 4:35:48 PM#49
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

I do.  Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere.  Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion.  I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.

Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/

The gross sales in dollars has been going up, inspite of low inflation and deep recession. If anything this chart shows that the industry is doing just fine.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6637

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

9/19/12 4:39:44 PM#50
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.

Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies,  GW2 sold over 2 million.

I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.

Didn't read my other post did you. I'll give you a minute.

I read it and did not see any credi ble sources. Just text that can have written by anyone. Cite your sources.

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

9/19/12 4:41:01 PM#51

I personally hope it collapses and all these douchy AAA companies go away.  I'd rather see the real mmoRPG players pay for indy games that will create fun, community driven gameplay again.  Call me an elitist, but I'm not a big fan of mainstream anything, really.  Whenever a product is made for the mainstream, you can bet that generally means it has been dumbed down to oblivion. (see the iPhone 5 for example)

Those of us who are sick of this crap, are probably looking for emergent gameplay.  I recieved an email frrom ANet today, talking about GW2's social gameplay, and I almost laughed myself to death.  I actually enjoy GW2 as a short-term game, and I'm taking my sweet time in there, but to claim this game has any features that drive the community toward being social is ludicrous.

The features they listed were basically the mob-tagging which was referred to as "cooperative gameplay", and then PvP.  Those were their advertised social features in their mass email today.  What a joke.

I don't know what's going to happen with this genre, but I do believe it's eating itself.  If there is no profit here and it becomes a gamble to make MMO, they will be gone.  An article I read about Funcom the other day said the larger company plans to start focusing on smaller games because of how bad this market is.  However, the real problem is that none of these companies are doing anything but trying to copy WoW, expecting the customer base to never evolve as a whole and want more.

Those of us who were around in the early days and were priviliaged to play a sandbox type game know that this genre has been simplified down to nothing over the past several years.  I don't even know if the masses of players even really want to play a game, or just watch a game be played on the screen in front of them.  I do know, as SOE mentioned the other day, that chasing content is NEVER, EVER going to work.

Emergent gameplay (sandbox features) is the only direction these games have to go now.   

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6637

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

9/19/12 4:42:25 PM#52
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

Here's an excerpt from Televsion subscriber losses, I'll let you find your own articles and research:

 

But this quarter's losses were stark for DirecTV, which lost customers for the first time ever and for Time Warner, who lost customers for the tenth straight quarter and lost more than analysts expected. Comcast's loss of 169,000 customers was actually an improvement over previous quarters.

 

You can also find reports on how networks changed their programming due to loss of profitability margins on high end shows. You'll find information on how CBS decided to not follow that trend and keep putting out high cost higher quality shows. It is the most watched network on televsion as an added emphasis on how people do want good television and not reality TV.

 

Here is an excerpt about movie problems, again I'll let you find your own sources:

 

I hope you’re sitting down, because I have some difficult news to share: Almost everyone hates going to the movies. After cinema attendance hit at 16-year low last year, a new study has found that only 3% of U.S. consumers consider moviegoing “a frequent source of entertainment.” Is this news as bad as it seems? And if so, what can be done about it?

Maybe the most depressing thing about the survey in question is that it’s really easy to imagine why movies have fallen so dramatically in popularity (Two years ago, 28% of people rated moviegoing as a frequent source of entertainment, to give you an idea of just how sharp the decline is). After all, going to the movies is both expensive and, often, not that fun of an experience; bad crowds, bad seats and bad movies can all end up ruining the night out. When you start to think about all of the variables that can make moviegoing a less than optimal way to spend your time, suddenly alternative plans become much more attractive.

 

Hopefully with all of the layoffs, company shut downs, game shut downs etc. I don't really have to go get you excerpts about how the MMO genre isn't doing well, isn't meeting expectations, and how some companies have said there is no future in MMOs and do not want to put any money into developing new ones.

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1660

9/19/12 4:42:50 PM#53
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

In other words: no, you havent got shit to back up your statements with.

Last year Avengers had one of the highest gross sales EVER. Batman also sold out beyond all expectations and there are more MMO's than ever before. SW:TOR sold over 2 million copies and has an estimated sub. base of 500.000. Rift sold over a million copies,  GW2 sold over 2 million.

I may personally not like the direction the genre has taken towards a more casual type but that the genre is struggling is complete and utter rubbish.

Didn't read my other post did you. I'll give you a minute.

 

How about the correlation between traditional TV and Movie viewing declining and the rise of Internet use with the easy access to movies and TV in way they the veiwer can control?

 

But the real reason is there is more entertainment option these days in 1920's it was the Music hall theatres, Silent Movies, Books 1950's TV, Movies, Theatre, Records, Books, 1980's Cable TV, Video Games, Home Video, Theatre, CD's, Cinema, Books, 2000, Internet (which is the biggest change in humanity  since the Industrial Revolution and has put us in the Information Age), Cinema, MP3, DVD, Video Games, 100's of TV channels, Books.  Access to entertainment has never been so diverse and easy to get as it is with the Internet traditional entertainment platforms are bound to suffer. Add to that a deep recession in the western world for the past 4 years and you should get my point.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7491

9/19/12 4:45:56 PM#54
Originally posted by Torx

 

Why can't we as an MMO community take the attitude we bring to FPS games, RPG games, and apply it to an MMO? Too many damn players feel like the only thing that motivates them in an MMO is the "carrot" of gear always being held out in front of them (and don't know what to do with themselves without it) - and you are destroying the genre. You need to fix that shit before you destroy the genre that we love.

We take the attitude of playing games for FUN in almost every other genre, so why can't we do it for MMOs too?

 

Link to the original thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/104j7o/you_are_all_destroying_the_mmo_genre_and_you_dont/

I wont speak for the whole community.

 

I feel we shouldn't have the same attitude about mmorpg as we do about fps and rpg games. The mmorpg is a higher form or atleast was, and was intended to be. The mmoprg was a virtual world, while your fps games were lobbies, and rpgs were simgle player. 

 

Gear or items as they were called have been a part of the faberic of rpgs since before they were on the computer. Skill progression, and items through adventure. There was always more adventure to be had, and skills and power to be gained.  These pc virtual worlds (mmorpgs) sought to bring these things to light.

 

Asking, better yet demanding these things should be applauded not attacked. If a developer can not bring these things in the opinion of the community, or further more move away from these things, the game should die or atleast be called to task. 

 

If the genre can not get it together, I would rather it die than take my money by selling to my hope and telling me what I want to hear. 

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

9/19/12 4:53:06 PM#55
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
 

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

I disagree with this.  You know what sells well during hard times?  Cheap escapism.  Drugs, booze, movies, games, etc.  Movies have become repetitive boring copies of each other, and the few gems that aren't are often rewarded (unless they are too cerebral for today's population).  Same with TV shows.  How many good shows have been cancelled to make room for reality TV and other bullshit that required zero brain activity?  I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain.  

Don't you really know what the problem is?  I mean can't you feel it yourself? Show me one AAA mmorpg game that game out in the last seven years which is *significantly different* than WoW.  Even GW2 is mostly just very well repackaged features we've all played for several years now.  It's still just a race to level cap, and a gear grind.  There are no other features there to allow for player-driven content, or emergent gameplay at all.   Is GW2 all that different in gameplay from Rift, or SWTOR, or LOTRO, or WoW, or TSW or anything else?  The only game anyone can point to as being different is EVE, and unfortunately that game does not appeal to everyone.  The *features* do, but the setting and content don't.

 

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/19/12 4:54:45 PM#56
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

I do.  Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere.  Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion.  I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.

Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/

The gross sales in dollars has been going up, inspite of low inflation and deep recession. If anything this chart shows that the industry is doing just fine.

Gross sales does not equate to profits. Cost of making movies is much higher. Yes I know unless God himself comes down and tells you this, you won't accept it as truth, but it is the truth.

  Jemcrystal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1363

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

9/19/12 4:57:19 PM#57
So does this mean if I tell everyone no MMO satisfies me I get a free fuck?!  All along it was so easy.  Who'd a knew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/19/12 4:57:27 PM#58
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Cable companies are struggling with constant customer loss that can't be replaced. This is because the TV is so bad and it has chased away many of that viewers it once had.
The reason companies put reality TV out is not because it gets record breaking viewers. They put it out because it is the cheapest stuff to make so it doesn't need as many viewers to be successful the way expensive dramas do.
Those are the true facts.

 

The movie industry is also at one of its lowest profitability levels in all of history. This is because many people feel the majority of the movies coming out are crap. 


Basically your argument is missing out on all of the actual facts. Television, movies and gaming markets (most notably MMOs) are having trouble. Part of it is the economy, part of it is because of the crap products being put out there.

 

Umm you toss out a lot of statements as fact here.  I'd like to see the sources for all these "facts."

Google or follow the news once in a while, the information is out there.

I do.  Funny, I don't seem to see that news anywhere.  Sure, I can find the occasionally commentator voicing his or her opinion....but that's all it is, opinion.  I just don't see any facts....so I am still waiting for you to cite you sources. Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.

Actually, the gross number of ticket sales seems to have been in steady decline the past 7 or 8 years now, but hard to speak to the overall profitability due to increasing average ticket prices and no telling where the cost to produce figures factor in. (or how much they make from Netflix and other alternate distribution channels)

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/

The gross sales in dollars has been going up, inspite of low inflation and deep recession. If anything this chart shows that the industry is doing just fine.

Gross sales does not equate to profits. Cost of making movies is much higher. Yes I know unless God himself comes down and tells you this, you won't accept it as truth, but it is the truth.

And it cost more money today ONLY because Movies need prettier explosions and special effects... Adding good actors (not overpaid stars) and a good script is second fiddle to studios getting "Big names" and "Jaw dropping" special effects which actually add far less to the movie but bring in far more $$$ as a general rule.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7491

9/19/12 4:58:00 PM#59
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
 

Ok, you have shown me there is a decline; that was never a point I had an issue with.  But the reasons for the decline you stated as fact, I am still waiting for the evidence behind that.

The reason for the small decline is the deepest recession for more than 60 years.

 I told my daughter jsut today at lunch to really embrace books, because the odds are that entertainment is going to continue to be less and less entertaining for anyone with a brain.  

 

 

I will tell my son the samething.

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2642

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

9/19/12 5:02:31 PM#60
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Xzen
Originally posted by Yamota

Complete fanboy nonsense from someone who does not understand market mechanics. It is quite simple, companies create products which customers like. If they don't like it then they wont buy it, period. You cant ever say that it is the customers fault for not liking your product and that is what essentially this post is saying.

So the statement that the genre is being ruined because customers dont like a certain aspect of an MMO is complete rubbish. Companies need to figure out what works and what does not, you as a consumer have only one obligation and that is to buy the products you like. If you don't like endless grinding for gear then dont buy those games but that does not mean that it can be assumed that replacing endless grinding for gear with anything will make customers like your game.

Now I am not saying that customers dont like what GW 2 has to offer as replacement for endgame, gear grinding but if they don't like it then they don't. Companies need to figure out what they like instead and cant blame customers for not liking what they do.

I don't know man. A lot of people watch reality TV and bad Movie remakes and it has been ruining the quality of both forms of entertainment. When a good movie does come out I see a lot of complaints from the same people because it didn't have enough explosions etc.....

I dont know what you mean, good movies get good ratings. The latest Batman movie was awesome and it got awesome ratings and the fact that reality TV is popular is because apparently alot of people like them and you cant blame people for what they like. Like you cant blame people if they dont like GW 2:s version of end game.

A corporations who blames customers for not buying their stuff is a corporation which will go bankrupt and this is what the OP does not get where he seems to want to blame customers for not, allegedly, liking something he likes and acting like that will ruin the genre and that is just nonsense.

They might ruin it from his point of view, like from my point of view who like Asheron's Call and Ultima Online and think the current selection of MMORPGs are not all that good, but that does not make the genre ruined. 

Good movies also get bad ratings while bad ones get good ratings.

I can blame people for what ever I feel like. That's the way blame works.

I don't care if people like GW2s endgame.

What corportation is blaming customers? The op was a post by a customer blaming other customers.

All I got from the OP was he was calling out all the people that bitch and moan about a certain type of endgame and then bitch and moan that a game does not have the same endgame.

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