I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

The problem is everyone keeps looking at mmo players and talking about them like they are one entity with one mind.  No wonder we as a community look so biopolar and like we don't know what we want.  Granted some of us may actually be bipolar.  Some of us may not know what we want.  But the truth is that mmo players encompass a vast and very diverse group of people with gaming expectations that range to include everything under the sun.  You can never make everyone happy all the time, and if you try to do just that, you set yourself up for failure.  This is true in life, and it is true in the world of mmos.

Originally posted by derek39

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

      When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

    These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

Good replies and I understand we're not all the same.

But jeez are people more bipolar than ever these days.

I know that I sure can't go back to watching a dps meter, gear scores, easy content, over hyped raids...I just won't do it! Haha

Anyways as always, ENJOY playing your video games(or math games) peoples. Just thought I'd spark a discussion for a few. =]

Ummm, didn't they say something along the lines of...if you like MMOs, you  should try our game?

Well, a lot of people here like MMOs and seems like they have some complaints about the game.  Maybe they should have left that group out.

Originally posted by derek39

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

That would be just crazy....

Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by derek39

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

      When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

    These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

What you're asking just isn't possible and you're taking what I said out of context...

May I suggest Monster Hunter to you? =D It's not an MMO, But the aggro system in a group is somewhat what you explained =P I just don't think that's possible in an MMO though. Maybe not currently. But I don't see anything coming to MMOs that will BLOW YOUR MIND, If you didn't think GW2 was that different.

Anyways I do respect your opinion and with that Adieu.

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by derek39

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

 That would be just crazy....

Gotta admit there is truth to it though, no? 

The response to GW2 is really interesting to me because the game has, for the most part, delivered everything the *general community* of MMORPG fans have been clamoring for the most. A huge open PVP map with keep seiges, incentive to explore, no gear treadmill (at least not a significant one), gear doesn't matter in PVP, no quest hubs and linear progression, etc etc. The only big ticket items that come to mind which aren't offered up front are housing and raids (though a ton of people hate raids, so there is that).

Yet still the game, while getting almost nothing but positive feedback, gets a good deal of negative feedback about the very same things so many people wanted in the first place. To me it just shows that the genre needs to evolve, and it needs to really soon. It has been said a million times, but the industry needs to break away from the WoW model, and GW2 is the first wildly successful game to do so, so I think things are looking good. I, personally, really want to see a game where I can get more attached to my character, which sadly GW2 doesn't offer, but whatever.

I'm enjoying GW2 immensely, though I do share some of the community's concerns about the games longevity. Yes, PvP is the endgame, but are they going to deliver expansions with considerable upgrades to the PvP elements of the game before players get bored? WvW is my personal favorite thing to do in GW2, but I already find myself asking "why?" sometimes. I hate to say it, but we as MMORPG players have, for the most part, been conditioned to want some kind of tangible rewards for what we do in order for us to keep on doing it. Just because its fun works the first time, maybe even the first dozen times, but eventually you've got "been there done that" syndrome.

Originally posted by derek39

Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by derek39

I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

      When people are simply asking for a more innovative product I see it as asking for vastly improved old features (that is improvements to the fundamentals of mmo group combat like aggro mechanics and hate generation e.g. monsters responding to an attack being initiated instead of only after its gone off) or for entirely new features. You basically just demonstrated GW2 took things away instead of adding new or vastly improved features to the genre. Why can't we have groups designed around more of a quartet rather than a trinity but have some of the roles be variable?

    These are just some of the things I consider when I look at how innovative a game really is. GW2 tried to do a few thinks differently, as you stated, with the result being that some like it and and some do not, however, I feel it didn't cause the genre to progress in any truly noticeable/meaningful way.

What you're asking just isn't possible and you're taking what I said out of context...

May I suggest Monster Hunter to you? =D It's not an MMO, But the aggro system in a group is somewhat what you explained =P I just don't think that's possible in an MMO though. Maybe not currently. But I don't see anything coming to MMOs that will BLOW YOUR MIND, If you didn't think GW2 was that different.

Anyways I do respect your opinion and with that Adieu.

      It's not at all impossible. It would require some fancier programing for sure though. Basically have a the mob setup to understand certain conditions for example, if player 1-6 start casting an ability with a long timer, lets say fireball, then monster should charge that opponent. So basically just create a condition on the mob being if fireball casting timer = yes then attack that player = yes (simple if then statement). Certain actions could, at times, provoke different reactions meaning the mob may instead shield itself to that same fireball instead of attacking. I'm not sure how you see this as impossible!

Originally posted by derek39

Originally posted by Psychow

Originally posted by derek39

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

 That would be just crazy....

Gotta admit there is truth to it though, no? 

Maybe. I am an accountant and prefer the old ways. I didn't ask for these changes. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy both tho. But if I had to pick one, I'd go with the older tried-and-true methods.

Originally posted by SirenRose

The problem is everyone keeps looking at mmo players and talking about them like they are one entity with one mind.  No wonder we as a community look so biopolar and like we don't know what we want.  Granted some of us may actually be bipolar.  Some of us may not know what we want.  But the truth is that mmo players encompass a vast and very diverse group of people with gaming expectations that range to include everything under the sun.  You can never make everyone happy all the time, and if you try to do just that, you set yourself up for failure.  This is true in life, and it is true in the world of mmos.

Sounds like we need more niche MMOs then. Pity that it seems like every MMO gamer won't even look at a niche MMO if it doesn't cost 200 million dollars to make.

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Originally posted by derek39
I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

---

You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

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Originally posted by derek39
I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.

 

What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it.

But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course)

But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same.

Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday?

Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

---

 

You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.

i guess in their perspective.. i find the game offers more new and interesting features than any MMO of the last decade.. all perception I guess

Originally posted by Vahrane

      It's not at all impossible. It would require some fancier programing for sure though. Basically have a the mob setup to understand certain conditions for example, if player 1-6 start casting an ability with a long timer, lets say fireball, then monster should charge that opponent. So basically just create a condition on the mob being if fireball casting timer = yes then attack that player = yes (simple if then statement). Certain actions could, at times, provoke different reactions meaning the mob may instead shield itself to that same fireball instead of attacking. I'm not sure how you see this as impossible!

That's what I'm saying. The programming would be a NIGHTMARE. Monster Hunter has this kind of aggro system. But it's not an MMO and not an open world game. For that exact reason. =P

IF it happens. My hat is off, and I'm bowing to the programming team that makes something like THAT work.

Also. I think a lot of people's problems with GW2 is they are TRYING their HARDEST to play it like every other MMO. "I need to go to THIS renown heart cause it's my first quest!" then the next one, then the next one. Just to find out that they are underleveled to get into the next area. So they feel like they gotta grind. Which is absolutely not the case.

Ya gotta treat it like it's dynamic (which it is) or the game is going to be a pain for you.

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

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Originally posted by GeezerGamer  

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Originally posted by derek39 I know the title might be a little mis-leading, But I couldn't think of anything different at the time.   What I'm trying to say though, Is I've been playing GW2 since headstart, I'm loving every aspect of it. But what I notice is the game is making a lot of people who WERE saying "Give us something new in an MMO!" now say "I miss the trinity" or "Why doesn't gear matter in pvp?" "Why aren't the stats more complex?" "No raids?"  "No real endgame? WTF?" (which isn't true of course) But it just suprises me how a lot of people were handed something very different from the norm and then complain that it's not the same. Why don't these people become accountants or something if they love numbers and more of the same everyday? Sorry that this is a rant post. I guess I just don't understand MMO gamers of today. But then again. I don't think even THEY know what they really want...Thoughts?

---

  You made the statement that people complained because they asked for something new and weren't happy when they got it. But that's not the issue for many. People are upset because for so long we were told GW2 will be different. And once you get below the presentation of it, very little is new or different and that's why people are upset.

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i guess in their perspective.. i find the game offers more new and interesting features than any MMO of the last decade.. all perception I guess

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You are right. It's absolutely a matter of opinion. I recognize that GW2 delivers everything many ever wanted it too. But not everyone shares that opinion and I wanted to be clear that not everyone is upset because they didn't get WoW.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

You are right. It's absolutely a matter of opinion. I recognize that GW2 delivers everything many ever wanted it too. But not everyone shares that opinion and I wanted to be clear that not everyone is upset because they didn't get WoW.

Oh yes, Everything related to entertainment is a matter of opinion from every brain across the globe.

But....What else exactly CAN they do different with MMO's?

Meh, Let's save that discussion for another thread. This one is pretty much finished lol.