For me it was the Box + Sub + CS. It is a principle kinda thing. I know ALL subscription games now have cash shops, but it just seems wrong to me. I long for the days when my box + sub got me everything that was in the game. Oh, well...

I'm enjoying it.

The atmosphere is great - at times really-why-am-I-playing-this-with-the-lights-off-oh-sh*t-whats-that-noise-behind-me spooky.  

The skill wheel, and the possible combinations, are brilliant. Anyone who is askign for specific builds for isntance runs, frankly, doesn't understand the game.

There is really no need to have trifecta - that's just EZ mode for those who can't be bothered to think (Sure, you can do DPS/Heal/Tank for isntance runs. But you really don't have to).  

Resetting your skills would be almost completely pointless - I suppose if you really really tried you could buy a set of skills that made the game near-impossible to progress, but you can go back to the start, use your gimped skills for a few hours, and have a whole new set of skills (Read: 2 new inner circles) to play with.

Can't speak to end-game, as I'm having way too much fun enjoying the quests, which are the best, best thought-out I've played in an MMO since...well, ever. They are at Oblivion-level of quality, which is what I've always wanted in an MMO and never found.

Grouping is straightforward and useful, if often short-term. The flaw I have found is that content generally does assume you are solo, so when you group, you can blow through it too fast. Which is a real shame, as you can miss the mission nuances.

I find the dialogue generally good, the voice-acting in some cases awesome. My own silence can be a bit odd, but generally works.

Combat is great, generally very motile - but not, unfortunately, in the first Kingsmouth Zone, where it is pretty much stand-your-ground, hit builder 5 times, hit consumer. I can see how people who only play early zones would find combat samey and dull. It's not later, but if you're bored before later that doesn't help.

Instances are challenging, a good duration, with interesting different strategies needed for almost every boss - one reason why Trifecta isn't need, and in fact unhelpful , is you really need to be prepared to change your skill sets around for many bosses. You *can* cookie-cutter, but IMO you're missing the point if you do. 

The major annoyance for me is that the Gear manager (Which should help maintain you different sets of gear) is pretty much borked. Needs to be fixed bad.

I played beta for more then 75+ hours, as well as some free weekend trials post launch for an additional 50+ hours.

TSW has an amazing world, the graphics and art for the world are absolutely incredible.  Questing in the game is exceptional and fun.

Now Why don't I like TSW?

Character graphics and animation / movement animations / combat animations are incredibly HORRIBLE!!!!!

This was such an issue to so many people before launch that the DEV's replied by saying "these are place holders and that it would improve after launch" - Did they change? Yes, technically they did change.  Was it much of an improvement? No, the changes weren't very noticable.   If you took the character from TSW and compare the movement / combat animations and such, it isn't much different from late 1990's early 2000's Grand Theft Auto Character Animations / Combat animations.

It nearly feels like the entire character development was an after thought and they didn't put as much detail or work into it compared to the world of TSW.

Now that being said is a HUGE deal for not just a small amount of people, rather quite a large number of people can't get past this.   Top that all off with a monthly sub + cash shop = AWWWWWW HELL NO!!!!

125+ hours played, all of which felt so disconnected because I couldn't get my eye off of how bad my character looked and moved yet the world was so amazing, extremely disappointed the entire time because of how my immersion was broken because of this.

on top of all of this I had a group of friends which I convinced to play this game with me, hoping it would make the experience better, and now none of them trust my judgement when it comes to me recommending a video game.  Though I recommended another game that recently launched and it redeemed my fault recommending TSW.

I enjoyed TSW at first, but am currently only subbed because I tried to cancel one day too late, and still haven't played since sometime last month.

I think as I was wrapping up my activities in Egypt I clearly could see what endgame I was heading towards, gear grinding raid progression, which I'm totally not interested in which killed my desire to continue playing.

I can't do this anymore, leveling up characters for no purpose (i.e. no castle sieging, territory control, or strong PVP endgame) seems so pointless, I just can't collect gear to run the next level of PVE content, hence my lack of interest in GW2 as well.

So in the end, TSW had some unique ideas, but by following the standard theme park end game model they lost me as a long term paying customer.

Originally posted by Apropo

 

Now that being said is a HUGE deal for not just a small amount of people, rather quite a large number of people can't get past this.   Top that all off with a monthly sub + cash shop = AWWWWWW HELL NO!!!!

 

I never felt TSW's purly cosmetic cash shop with no cash to gold conversion system tugging at my pocket. TSW cash shop is less intrusive than WoW's. Much different than a B2P cash shop.

Sub fee fine, if you don't like subs.

I think TSW is an amazing game and have no problems at all with the subscription+cash shop. I have lifetime membership for TSW and I am currently subbed to other games as well, and honestly, I think the community in TSW is also the best I have ever seen.

Someone started a thread on the official TSW forums a while ago trying to find out the average age of gamers in TSW and it turned out to be 37 with lots of people responding to the thread well over 40.

That, in my opinion, means the game is enjoyed by an older audience, even if it was not meant to be that way, which also means the game may grow steadily over time, but at a somewhat slow rate.

Personally, I have no problem with this, as the current playerbase seems to be stable and very dedicated, albeit small. Funcom claims the game is profitable right now, and as long as they are committed to adding more content to the game, I think the game will do just fine with its P2P business model, and will continue to attract new players all the time.

To end my post, I will say that even though I wish Funcom gets more people to play the game and increase their profits, I certainly really enjoy the game a lot as is right now, with a small population, and I certainly don't miss the b2p and f2p crowds, especially those in the 15-30 age bracket lol.

The combat is what blew it for me.

It felt like the game wanted to sit on 2 chairs at once, but fell between them instead.

They wanted you to move around a lot in combat, but it felt slow and cumbersome to do so.

Originally posted by Apropo

I played beta for more then 75+ hours, as well as some free weekend trials post launch for an additional 50+ hours.

 

TSW has an amazing world, the graphics and art for the world are absolutely incredible.  Questing in the game is exceptional and fun.

 

Now Why don't I like TSW?

Character graphics and animation / movement animations / combat animations are incredibly HORRIBLE!!!!!

This was such an issue to so many people before launch that the DEV's replied by saying "these are place holders and that it would improve after launch" - Did they change? Yes, technically they did change.  Was it much of an improvement? No, the changes weren't very noticable.   If you took the character from TSW and compare the movement / combat animations and such, it isn't much different from late 1990's early 2000's Grand Theft Auto Character Animations / Combat animations.

It nearly feels like the entire character development was an after thought and they didn't put as much detail or work into it compared to the world of TSW.

 

Now that being said is a HUGE deal for not just a small amount of people, rather quite a large number of people can't get past this.   Top that all off with a monthly sub + cash shop = AWWWWWW HELL NO!!!!

125+ hours played, all of which felt so disconnected because I couldn't get my eye off of how bad my character looked and moved yet the world was so amazing, extremely disappointed the entire time because of how my immersion was broken because of this.

 

on top of all of this I had a group of friends which I convinced to play this game with me, hoping it would make the experience better, and now none of them trust my judgement when it comes to me recommending a video game.  Though I recommended another game that recently launched and it redeemed my fault recommending TSW.

 You played this gane during beta for 125+ Hours and yet all you do is complain, ???

If a game comes out as "extremly dissapointed" you do NOT spend 125 + Hours in such a game...

There is something extremly wrong with this picure..

The betas of today are the "doom" of mmo's....Play the beta, get tired of the game, No sale !! Off to the next beta..

Love the game, play the game, but can't play for extensive periods of time.  The reason being is the combat...it's very dull (when questing) and the mobs take WAYYYY too long to kill....dull combat + long kill times = boredom.  If they would just lower the hp's on single dot mobs, I'd play all day...but it's hard to keep running around killing things you don't have patience to kill and ultimately trying to avoid them altogether (which is close to impossible because of the area designs and mob placement).

Game is great though....definitely the best of the year.

I like the idea behind the game and think it will improve over time much like AoC did.  I purchased the LTS not because I love the game now but because I think it could become much better.  I played the first three weeks but have not played since.  Same reasons as many have mentioned:

1. Boring combet.  I sit in one place and spam two skills

2. Poor Char Customization.  Most people look the same in the game.  i have run into myself several times in my three weeks of play.

3. Lack of content.  It doesnt take too long to make it thru everything in the game and then there is nothing to do but repeat missions for more skill points.

This is why I like LT subs, I can pay now and have access to the game here and there until I am ready to play it as my primary or I can simply keep going in and out when I feel like it.  When it goes FTP I will get free points each month and can then buy the things I want from the shop for no additional cost.

Originally posted by Randayn

Love the game, play the game, but can't play for extensive periods of time.  The reason being is the combat...it's very dull (when questing) and the mobs take WAYYYY too long to kill....dull combat + long kill times = boredom.  If they would just lower the hp's on single dot mobs, I'd play all day...but it's hard to keep running around killing things you don't have patience to kill and ultimately trying to avoid them altogether (which is close to impossible because of the area designs and mob placement).

 

Game is great though....definitely the best of the year.

 I have a great tip for you...Make a dps build and the fights will not last long at all..Basically ...as little HP as possible and only offensive talismans  :)

If you have a build for tanking and/or healing ..well then the fights will take long..

Thats the good part of TSW ..you can alter your characther on the fly

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Randayn

Love the game, play the game, but can't play for extensive periods of time.  The reason being is the combat...it's very dull (when questing) and the mobs take WAYYYY too long to kill....dull combat + long kill times = boredom.  If they would just lower the hp's on single dot mobs, I'd play all day...but it's hard to keep running around killing things you don't have patience to kill and ultimately trying to avoid them altogether (which is close to impossible because of the area designs and mob placement).

 

Game is great though....definitely the best of the year.

 I have a great tip for you...Make a dps build and the fights will not last long at all..Basically ...as little HP as possible and only offensive talismans  :)

If you have a build for tanking and/or healing ..well then the fights will take long..

Thats the good part of TSW ..you can alter your characther on the fly

I do need to do this....this is probably my entire issue....Im running around in tank spec killing things really slowly....this is a big "Duh" moment for me especially since Ive experienced this in other games and have fixed it....doh....I feel exposed.   Thanks!

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Apropo

I played beta for more then 75+ hours, as well as some free weekend trials post launch for an additional 50+ hours.

 

TSW has an amazing world, the graphics and art for the world are absolutely incredible.  Questing in the game is exceptional and fun.

 

Now Why don't I like TSW?

Character graphics and animation / movement animations / combat animations are incredibly HORRIBLE!!!!!

This was such an issue to so many people before launch that the DEV's replied by saying "these are place holders and that it would improve after launch" - Did they change? Yes, technically they did change.  Was it much of an improvement? No, the changes weren't very noticable.   If you took the character from TSW and compare the movement / combat animations and such, it isn't much different from late 1990's early 2000's Grand Theft Auto Character Animations / Combat animations.

It nearly feels like the entire character development was an after thought and they didn't put as much detail or work into it compared to the world of TSW.

 

Now that being said is a HUGE deal for not just a small amount of people, rather quite a large number of people can't get past this.   Top that all off with a monthly sub + cash shop = AWWWWWW HELL NO!!!!

125+ hours played, all of which felt so disconnected because I couldn't get my eye off of how bad my character looked and moved yet the world was so amazing, extremely disappointed the entire time because of how my immersion was broken because of this.

 

on top of all of this I had a group of friends which I convinced to play this game with me, hoping it would make the experience better, and now none of them trust my judgement when it comes to me recommending a video game.  Though I recommended another game that recently launched and it redeemed my fault recommending TSW.

 You played this gane during beta for 125+ Hours and yet all you do is complain, ???

If a game comes out as "extremly dissapointed" you do NOT spend 125 + Hours in such a game...

There is something extremly wrong with this picure..

The betas of today are the "doom" of mmo's....Play the beta, get tired of the game, No sale !! Off to the next beta..

 

Topic is: "Why don't you like TSW". He makes a very good post about it, with several good observations. Instead of discussing these points, you attack him. "All you do is complain?", when the TOPIC is "why don't you like TSW", that's just pathetic.

I guess only the people who like the game are allowed to play it for extended periods of time. They're also the only ones allowed to comment, but only if they like it.

Is this somehow about a persons age too? Like how so few bought the game? It's how Funcom isn't untrusted in the MMO market? It's just that all those who dislike your messiah-game are kids and/or haters?

If you don't want to refute his points, then don't bother attacking him either.

Personally, I hate Funcom, I want them gone more than pretty much anything. They actually can beat EA and Cryptic on the "worst company in the world" - race. It'd be close, but doable.

Originally posted by Rawiz

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Apropo

I played beta for more then 75+ hours, as well as some free weekend trials post launch for an additional 50+ hours.

 

TSW has an amazing world, the graphics and art for the world are absolutely incredible.  Questing in the game is exceptional and fun.

 

Now Why don't I like TSW?

Character graphics and animation / movement animations / combat animations are incredibly HORRIBLE!!!!!

This was such an issue to so many people before launch that the DEV's replied by saying "these are place holders and that it would improve after launch" - Did they change? Yes, technically they did change.  Was it much of an improvement? No, the changes weren't very noticable.   If you took the character from TSW and compare the movement / combat animations and such, it isn't much different from late 1990's early 2000's Grand Theft Auto Character Animations / Combat animations.

It nearly feels like the entire character development was an after thought and they didn't put as much detail or work into it compared to the world of TSW.

 

Now that being said is a HUGE deal for not just a small amount of people, rather quite a large number of people can't get past this.   Top that all off with a monthly sub + cash shop = AWWWWWW HELL NO!!!!

125+ hours played, all of which felt so disconnected because I couldn't get my eye off of how bad my character looked and moved yet the world was so amazing, extremely disappointed the entire time because of how my immersion was broken because of this.

 

on top of all of this I had a group of friends which I convinced to play this game with me, hoping it would make the experience better, and now none of them trust my judgement when it comes to me recommending a video game.  Though I recommended another game that recently launched and it redeemed my fault recommending TSW.

 You played this gane during beta for 125+ Hours and yet all you do is complain, ???

If a game comes out as "extremly dissapointed" you do NOT spend 125 + Hours in such a game...

There is something extremly wrong with this picure..

The betas of today are the "doom" of mmo's....Play the beta, get tired of the game, No sale !! Off to the next beta..

 

Topic is: "Why don't you like TSW". He makes a very good post about it, with several good observations. Instead of discussing these points, you attack him. "All you do is complain?", when the TOPIC is "why don't you like TSW", that's just pathetic.

I guess only the people who like the game are allowed to play it for extended periods of time. They're also the only ones allowed to comment, but only if they like it.

Is this somehow about a persons age too? Like how so few bought the game? It's how Funcom isn't untrusted in the MMO market? It's just that all those who dislike your messiah-game are kids and/or haters?

If you don't want to refute his points, then don't bother attacking him either.

Personally, I hate Funcom, I want them gone more than pretty much anything. They actually can beat EA and Cryptic on the "worst company in the world" - race. It'd be close, but doable.

I didnt say anything that would indicate that people can't complain about TSW..I

Just found it odd to be plaýing 125 hours during beta then claim to dislike it..It doesn't make sence at all..If I find a game that I dislike, I will certainly not torture myself with it for 125 hours, I would maybe endure a bad movie for a couple of hours , but thats it.

125 Hours thats almost a full month at work,  8 hours a day !!

Sure , many go to work for a full month and yet they hate it :) But a game isn't suppose to be work..Is it..?

Hes main complain was the animations...and..well the animations must be a Highly subjective reason, I have previously written a post about why players feel the animations and combat are bad, and frankly I got no good answers..

The only thing I can say is that there are games with better animations and worse , I find TSW to be somewhat in the middle of this scale.. 

So..Go ahead and continue to hate Funcom..:) Don't you have better things to do btw ?

Originally posted by thark

...

Hes main complain was the animations...and..well the animations must be a Highly subjective reason, I have previously written a post about why players feel the animations and combat are bad, and frankly I got no good answers..

....

To be fair any discussion of the merits and demerits of an MMO is going to be highly subjective.

There is no absolute reason why TSW's apparent lack of success caused developers to be laid off but according to FunCom's own public statements this was the case.

I don't think there is a single reason for this failure - we are individuals and we all react to MMOs differently.

However those individual choices, taken collectively, did represent "poor word of mouth" and the projection of lower sales than were originally expected in the first 12 months after the launch of the game.

I find it very interesting that as of the time of this reply the majority of votes (45%) went to "just show me the results"

For me personally: It's definately one of the better MMORPG's that I have played in recent years and I will continue to play on a casual basis.

---

Originally posted by laserit
I find it very interesting that as of the time of this reply the majority of votes (45%) went to "just show me the results"

For me personally: It's definately one of the better MMORPG's that I have played in recent years and I will continue to play on a casual basis.

---

I'm probably one of the eleven. :P

Just wanted to say that I think it's possible the marketing folks missed the boat with TSW. I'd never even heard of the game until April; never saw a trailer, never heard the music, nothing. And the trailers are awesome! How could I miss those??

Bought the pre-order, joined the forums and was immediately hooked into the pre-launch ARGs, beta testing and all that stuff. But beta was used for marketing instead of testing and the game didn't look ready. No surprise BWE folks tried it and never came back.

It's a great game, refreshingly different. I hope it will have a long run.