Originally posted by botrytis

To GezerGamer - the personal doesn't contradict the lore. To me it actually enhances the lore, since it places the personal history of your character in the Tyrian lore. Yes the character acting could be better.

Do you understand all of the Tyrian Lore - or just GW1? There were 3 books that explain the lore AFTER GW1. To totally understand it all - one needs to read them also.

the lore exists (especially in GW1 and 3 published novels)

but i agree w bcbully that the availability of lore ingame could use improvement

Originally posted by TalulaRose

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

Originally posted by KingPinoy

This part makes me *sigh*.

I seems people have this compulsion in sub games to "get their money's worth" in a weird way. Some are willing to give up 10 bucks for a character slot, which is IMO a rip off, but if one doesn't play the game for hours upon hours they feel like they're wasting money on their sub.

It seems like mmorpgs lonegevity isn't even judged by game mechanics and quality anymore, but about how free or not it is. Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.

Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.

 

Most of the people posting and playing wouldn't pay and GW2 wouldn't be the best thing since sliced bread they claim it t be.

No sub is one of the main reasons why people are playing. Just look at the thread that asked how many people spent money in the shop. 70% of the people who responded haven't. Have to wonder if the game is as good as some say if the majority of people playing don't want to spend money to support it.

To be fair, i do think GW2 is indeed a good game, and quite possibly the best themepark available right now.

However, i do agree that the business model is probably the true main element of the game. It seems to me that the reason why people aren't worried about "endgame" and "longevity" is because they don't feel "trapped" or "pressured to play" by the fee.

So i wonder, if GW2 did have a sub, what would be players outlook on grinding dungeons and Orr for cosmetic gear, running the same events, crafting professions, and doing the same general stuff you do in other TP mmorpgs like dailies? I believe people would, once again, forced themselves to find a true reason to log in, like TOR and all others.

This all comes off to me as that GW2 really doen't have any more longevity than standart themeparks or is any different once the "journey" is over. It may end up standing the test of time not by it's features, merits, quality and ability to create a perpetual world without an "end" (game, hehe). But simply because it's free. Again, this is only an opinion, and not a fact all, since i definitely can't know what would indeed happen in this case.

It actually cames me feel sad and ashamed as a gamer when mmorpgs and their lasting appeal, the most vital component, is judged not on the game, but the business model.

I totally disagree with author, but man, i must stress one thing. Author has to lay excuse after excuse for 1 minute just to make a video about HIS OPINION... And still gets bombed by dislikes. And rage of fanbois. And stuff.

I am shamed for GW2 fanboys. This is ridiculous. I love this game, but this either has to go, or... well, you continue poisioning life for yourself in the first place. You make your life worse, you make that other guy's life worse, you deter new players from playing the game you love (because they dont want to play with someone like you) and generally, you just do a lot of evil and no good.

If someone has an opinion and spends time to explain it and elaborate on it - debate with him on the points on his opinion, but disliking video for that reason? Come on...

That said, i completely disagree with most of the poins in the video.

1) Author generally says he dislikes story. Well, i do like story, until the point they started going too much of unneeded heroic deaths... But until that point, it was very fun. Tybalt is so cool. And overall, story made sense, felt like something personal and well, it played its part for me. Too bad you didnt like it, but this doesnt make other people being unable to like it. Doesnt make it bad, its just your presonal experience.

2) Author says "you have to be hooked to continue playing" - no you dont. It doesnt matter which game set the trend, it doesnt matter who does it where, it doesnt matter if 10 million players all over the world do it - you cannot say "this is how it should be, period" and in this case, its not one or two people who are against 10 million, but a lot of people disagree. I remember back in my school days, 10 years ago, we'd play Quake, C&C Renegade or Counter-Strike for hours.. because it was FUN! PRocess was fun! WE had no gear to grind, no items to gather, no achivements. We just came together in a lan cafe and played. Because it was fun to do so. Yes, it never got old for us until we finished school, and well, life changed, kinda.

Being hooked to play is one incentitive to play. Liking the process is another. Its a different view on life, and yes, there are both people in the world, both those who like the goal, and those who like the process. For example, european person would make origami to put it on his table, be like "i folded this cool stegosaurus and it took me 1 hour of hard work" and japanese person would make origami just to unfold it, because its the process of folding origami that matters, not the resulting figurine.

3) Author says "heart quests are too grindy". Well, once again, this is personal. You dont like it. I feel its pretty well balanced. I am at 70% map completion and I only had like 1 or 2 times when i was like "omg when am i going to finally complete this heart". Much more times (like 3 or 4 times), i was really in LOVE with heart quest (best one being learning about balance from Kodan, trading with Jotun coming second).  And most of the time, they made sense and i like them.

4) I love jumping puzzle. What kind of feature is that? Its a feature i LOVE to have in GW2. Really. WoW hardocre raiders? Couldnt care less. They can hit their stupid bosses and feel "cool" and then come to WvW Eternal Battlegrounds and get owned by a jumping puzzle :) Yes, they can be implemented in any other MMO, and thats the point! Guild Wars 2 took something that can be done and... did it! Thats why we love it. It made something come true.

Game doesnt have to do something IMPOSSIBLE to prevail. Look @ SWTOR. They did OMG FULL VOICE DIALOGUE which noone ever did for MMO and never thought possible for an MMO. Did they win? NO, they failed! And now they say that expansions wont have full VO. Yep, epic fail.

GW2 did something everyone could do (dodge system, DE, jumping puzzles, quests with multiple ways to contribute to an end, frequent outdoor bosses, 3 side PVP, etc) and .... did it! Thats why its here, and thats why people play it.

5) Author doent like being able to buy from heart quest givers. Well, thats because those are not quests, but actually renown hearts. You dont accept work, you help for free. In turn, the person would become very pleased with you, and write you a PERSONAL LETTER, how cool is that? And yes, he/she will pay you for it! You can then buy stuff with money you got paid. And if you like, you can also get something from the person, but not for money, for currency that represents your renown in this world. You're soo cool and well known she's basically gonna give you a recepie of her apple pie, and some trinkerts for zero copper coins! For free (money-wise).

Author doesnt like it, but there are no arguments presented to prove its a faulty scheme. To me it pretty much works all right!

6) Looks. Yes low level gear is kinda same, unfortunately. When you get higher you get a lot of choices in gear, and endgame, gear appearance is the thing you grind for (like you grind for stats in WoW). Gear appearance has a lot of deph!

Btw, you say you dislike that you have to reach endgame to look cool, but you say WoW does it right where you not only have to get to endgame to look cool, but to play anything interesting or have cool stats. This is self-controversing. Eitehr you like to grind to endgame to get good gear, or you dont...

7) You do get new abilities as you level. You get one third of your active buttons over first half of your levels - your 3 utilities and ultimate (thats 4 buttons out of 7-10).  You get different skills all over the game progress - you need skillpoints to unlock the skills, and it takes you more than reaching your max level to get all abilities your class has. So in some sense, this game has even bigger ability progression than WoW or WoW-Clones, where by lvl cap you have all abilitties your class has to offer.

8) I agree that DEs sometimes repeat too frequently and de-immersify you. However, in WoW its even worse, where EVERYTHING is temporarily (bandit leader you killed respawns 2 minutes later for other player to kill him).

Still, Author is entitled to his opinion. In my opinion, OP, you are bound by stupid stereotypes and thats what prevents you from having fun. You keep coming to "this is stupid because its not like WoW, my WoW friends would laugh at this". You dont need your WoW friends to approve what you're having fun doing! You can have fun, without anyone else approval.

If you dislike how game is made, thats your opinion, you dont have to continue playing. No problems.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

I hate to tell you this, but GW2 will never get away from zerg fights. There are limits that are working in conjunction that will prettymuch ensure that the GW2 Trinity-less mechanics will never become mainstream adaptations in other MMOs.

In traditional mechanics dodge is a stat that's built into your character. It's handled by RNG mechanics and damage is mitigated accordingly. Now, we have dodge as a manual skill which requires a much higer level of situational awareness than before. And while it's fun like in console games, there is a limit to the amount of information that a person can process. This Condition/boon system requires that all players be situationally aware of the conditions of everyone in the team. Just how well can the average casual gamer adapt to this? It's been called "skill" in GW2. lol, Learning to recognize visual queues and respond accodingly is indeed a skill. But its one we teach to small children and not difficult to master. And while this makes the game more exciting and fun....like a console game, it's got limits. Even the best most coordinated teams would probably begin to break down with much bigger groups in instances.  Now combine this with the lack of   Role focused tanking and healing and now boss fights  must cater more to the individuals. So we can't have these huge bosses with big hits. I'm sure one or the other would handle better, but both mechanics at the same time. Good luck. Best you can do is tweak their AOEs. So now these large fights degenerate into a mass of players running around trying not to stand in red circles while getting as many hits in as possible between boss attacks. Just one big "every man for himself" session

YAY! FUN!

Will never get away from zerg fights. Ya, your probably right because sadly people would start making threads constantly on the difficulty of dungeons if they made it so you can't rez during a boss fight. And honestly I think they should, just to stop all this BS about zerging fights and thats how it is easy mode.

Ever once think that the designers didn't want people to just sit there and press buttons instead of being situationally aware of your sorroundings. I'm not saying other mmos don't require this... but at the same time, other mmos don't punish you nearly as bad for it. Calling hand eye coordination a childs game is just pointless. Would you rather them take the same exact approach that every other MMO took with combat where you can't move and cast, reaction is hardly an issue and fights are generalized to the point of making them tedious? This was a design choice, and it makes you think a little more and be more involved with your game rather than being afk pushing buttons or staring at meters.

Now you can actually follow fights, watch your footing, and instead of just dpsing, you are fighting with your group how you should be, on equal footing rather than expecting someone else to take the brunt of the damage and another heal your wounds.

Honestly, would you rather it catter to the group comp, rather than the individual? So that every fight is trivial in nature and your forced to match specific roles? The only thing I enjoyed in WoW and other raid oriented, trinity system MMOs was the interaction with guildies and friends. But now that I can do that and enjoy my PvE experience, how is this game worse in terms of mechanics. This game can easily put in instances as effectively as WoW or any other MMO can regardless of the lack of trinity system. I don't get how you think that cattering to the individual is such a hard concept from cattering to the roles. But if you don't like the dodging system or the fight mechanics, then don't play the instances. If you can enjoy your experience another way, then thats fine. But you can't honestly tell me that any other MMOs system is more complicated and difficult than GW2.

I guess we can leave out the fact that there are very team oriented fights too BTW, or that people can actually work together to make each other stronger, but you can keep that "every man for himself" quality. In GW2 instead of relying on your healer or tank, you have to rely on yourself while also being a team player, it's not a free for all like you think it is.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

Its very much missing the "RPG" part IMHO.

A full fledged MMO it certainly is . But more of an "ARPG" (action role playing game) that has been simplified and is ultra casual. This is fine, but it truly lacks depth and is more "pick up and play" for a few hours here and there.

To put it simply- GW2 is more like Diablo (without the Loot) than like FF7 (without the loot). Bad comparison, I know, but I am trying to show a very stark difference in game styles- One being an ARPG.

 Well we call WoW an MMORPG yet GW2 has more roleplaying in it (factually speaking it actually does) so why is GW2 not an RPG?

Or are you of the mindset that WoW is an ARPG?

PS - Geezergamer : are you really suggesting that situational awareness is a child level skill?  Your post seriously doesn't make sense... first you say your average gamer will never be able to adapt to GW2's system then you say the skills that are required they teach to children.  Are you saying everyone is stupid?

You don't need to bash skills you don't have.  Situational awareness is a skill taught throughout life and is probably one of those "top tier" skills you can learn.  It;s used everywhere.

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

However, i do agree that the business model is probably the true main element of the game. It seems to me that the reason why people aren't worried about "endgame" and "longevity" is because they don't feel "trapped" or "pressured to play" by the fee.

So i wonder, if GW2 did have a sub, what would be players outlook on grinding dungeons and Orr for cosmetic gear, running the same events, crafting professions, and doing the same general stuff you do in other TP mmorpgs like dailies? I believe people would, once again, forced themselves to find a true reason to log in, like TOR and all others.

This all comes off to me as that GW2 really doen't have any more longevity than standart themeparks or is any different once the "journey" is over. It may end up standing the test of time not by it's features, merits, quality and ability to create a perpetual world without an "end" (game, hehe). But simply because it's free. Again, this is only an opinion, and not a fact all, since i definitely can't know what would indeed happen in this case.

It actually cames me feel sad and ashamed as a gamer when mmorpgs and their lasting appeal, the most vital component, is judged not on the game, but the business model.

I also believe along these lines.  Which then leads me to ask since so many judge an MMO based on its business model, are these critics being unfair to the games themselves?

I think so.  A game should be held by its gameplay above cost.

An example: 

Audi R8 Spyder (top of the line sportscar) is considered a great car, not because of it's price but because of its features. 

Economy classed Hundai might be suitable for those on a budget, but if you compare each car to one another, most wouldn't consider the Hyundai a better car. 

Why then should we automatically consider GW2 a superior game because it lacks a sub fee?  I do believe a lot of people do this, sometimes unconsciously.

Yes, you can keep  coming back to GW2 after you buy it, but does that really enhance its longevity?  If player A plays GW2 for 2000 hours over a 5 year period and player B plays WoW 2k hours over a 6 month period does that automatically mean GW2 has the better longevity?  I don't think so.  They both put the same amount of time in, hence played the same amount irregardless of how long it took them to put in that time.

Originally posted by botrytis

To GezerGamer - the personal doesn't contradict the lore. To me it actually enhances the lore, since it places the personal history of your character in the Tyrian lore. Yes the character acting could be better.

 

Do you understand all of the Tyrian Lore - or just GW1? There were 3 books that explain the lore AFTER GW1. To totally understand it all - one needs to read them also.

I am more refering to game play than actual lore. It's like, in your personal story, it's actually over the top how you are regarded as a living legend. It's thick, but ok, it is what it is. You are the savior of the world.

And then as a reward, your "hero's welcome" is to go do hearts where you are treated more like a farmhand. Go do all these mimimum wage manual labor jobs that no one in their right mind would ever want to do in real life. Why on earth do I want to log in and do them in a fatasy setting?

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Yaoiman

So... you think this because a YouTube video tells you to think this?

the person narrating the video is the Op

Makes more sense. lol

---

Originally posted by bcbully

---

Originally posted by halflife25 Prime time EU, 9 servers are already on medium population. They were all high for first week. We will see how it goes in a month or so.   I haven't checked US servers during prime time.

---

I've been looking at this too. US during prime time lastnight were all heavy none were full. There has been about eight or nine servers full up until the last few days.

 

I think it's too early to use this as an indicator of anything though, because I've "heard" they increased server size. I do think the less populated severs have gotten smaller though, judging by WvW.

---

This was common knowledge even before the launch.

People ignored it.

Now it bites them in the arse.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

I hate to tell you this, but GW2 will never get away from zerg fights. There are limits that are working in conjunction that will prettymuch ensure that the GW2 Trinity-less mechanics will never become mainstream adaptations in other MMOs.

In traditional mechanics dodge is a stat that's built into your character. It's handled by RNG mechanics and damage is mitigated accordingly. Now, we have dodge as a manual skill which requires a much higer level of situational awareness than before. And while it's fun like in console games, there is a limit to the amount of information that a person can process. This Condition/boon system requires that all players be situationally aware of the conditions of everyone in the team. Just how well can the average casual gamer adapt to this? It's been called "skill" in GW2. lol, Learning to recognize visual queues and respond accodingly is indeed a skill. But its one we teach to small children and not difficult to master. And while this makes the game more exciting and fun....like a console game, it's got limits. Even the best most coordinated teams would probably begin to break down with much bigger groups in instances.  Now combine this with the lack of   Role focused tanking and healing and now boss fights  must cater more to the individuals. So we can't have these huge bosses with big hits. I'm sure one or the other would handle better, but both mechanics at the same time. Good luck. Best you can do is tweak their AOEs. So now these large fights degenerate into a mass of players running around trying not to stand in red circles while getting as many hits in as possible between boss attacks. Just one big "every man for himself" session

YAY! FUN!

Will never get away from zerg fights. Ya, your probably right because sadly people would start making threads constantly on the difficulty of dungeons if they made it so you can't rez during a boss fight. And honestly I think they should, just to stop all this BS about zerging fights and thats how it is easy mode.

Indirectly lines up with my point as we are talking about wha tthe average player does. Obviusly, the more you move away from niche/hardcore games into games that are meant for the mainstream/casual player, the more this has an overall impact.

Ever once think that the designers didn't want people to just sit there and press buttons instead of being situationally aware of your sorroundings. I'm not saying other mmos don't require this... but at the same time, other mmos don't punish you nearly as bad for it. Calling hand eye coordination a childs game is just pointless. Would you rather them take the same exact approach that every other MMO took with combat where you can't move and cast, reaction is hardly an issue and fights are generalized to the point of making them tedious?

To answer that. I'll say Yes I do, and I'll tel lyou why. My pleasure from MMOs comes from building characters and letting them do their thing. I'm a theroycrafter. I want to build my stats to see how they effect what my character does, I don't want them passed up to me. I don't want to be bogged down with that when RNG can handle it. But to me this is the difference between twich games/FPS games/Console games and MMOs. The more you give to me to deal with, the less my character is being "built" and the less strategies I can come up with. I don't want to worry about dodging. Not to say that's the same as not standing in "boss poop" but I think you get what I'm saying here.

This was a design choice, and it makes you think a little more and be more involved with your game rather than being afk pushing buttons or staring at meters.

 Anarchy online was probably one of the worst games like this, and yet. One of the greatest MMOs.....once they got it working right. One of my all time favorites. Loved the game. Again, the difference bettwen console and MMO. and I think GW2 has a lot of Console feel to it. Not putting that down, It's just not what I'm after.

Now you can actually follow fights, watch your footing, and instead of just dpsing, you are fighting with your group how you should be, on equal footing rather than expecting someone else to take the brunt of the damage and another heal your wounds.

Honestly, would you rather it catter to the group comp, rather than the individual?

Yes

So that every fight is trivial in nature and your forced to match specific roles? The only thing I enjoyed in WoW and other raid oriented, trinity system MMOs was the interaction with guildies and friends. But now that I can do that and enjoy my PvE experience, how is this game worse in terms of mechanics. This game can easily put in instances as effectively as WoW or any other MMO can regardless of the lack of trinity system. I don't get how you think that cattering to the individual is such a hard concept from cattering to the roles. But if you don't like the dodging system or the fight mechanics, then don't play the instances. If you can enjoy your experience another way, then thats fine. But you can't honestly tell me that any other MMOs system is more complicated and difficult than GW2.

I fuly respect and recognize the design choice for GW2. And I think that for what it is and what it's supposed to be, It's a fine game, But It really is for single players and small groups. While the masses may love to run around in WVW, for the most part, they are uncoordinated just following the zerg or die trying.

I guess we can leave out the fact that there are very team oriented fights too BTW, or that people can actually work together to make each other stronger, but you can keep that "every man for himself" quality. In GW2 instead of relying on your healer or tank, you have to rely on yourself while also being a team player, it's not a free for all like you think it is.

As I said, it's fine in small goroups. But once you move into larger groups it all breaks down.

See responses in red

Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

Its very much missing the "RPG" part IMHO.

A full fledged MMO it certainly is . But more of an "ARPG" (action role playing game) that has been simplified and is ultra casual. This is fine, but it truly lacks depth and is more "pick up and play" for a few hours here and there.

To put it simply- GW2 is more like Diablo (without the Loot) than like FF7 (without the loot). Bad comparison, I know, but I am trying to show a very stark difference in game styles- One being an ARPG.

 Well we call WoW an MMORPG yet GW2 has more roleplaying in it (factually speaking it actually does) so why is GW2 not an RPG?

Or are you of the mindset that WoW is an ARPG?

 

PS - Geezergamer : are you really suggesting that situational awareness is a child level skill?  Your post seriously doesn't make sense... first you say your average gamer will never be able to adapt to GW2's system then you say the skills that are required they teach to children.  Are you saying everyone is stupid?

You don't need to bash skills you don't have.  Situational awareness is a skill taught throughout life and is probably one of those "top tier" skills you can learn.  It;s used everywhere.

 Situational awareness isn't taught, it's developed individually.  Either you have it or you don't.  If you're an American football fan then the easiest way to explain it is, Great players tend to have very good awareness while bad players tend to have none.  The lions QB threw a deep pass into the endzone on sunday night, the wide out simply looked around in confusion because he had no idea that the ball was coming his way.  What should have been a touchdown turned into a loss of downs because the reciever had poor aweness. 

You can teach a reciever to have the best hands in the NFL, but if he has no aweness he's not going to make plays.  TO had great hands, but was never at the same level of aweness as guys like Rice or Moss, who could run 40 yards down a feild, with everything to their back, and make a catch without ever looking over their shoulders because they knew when and were the ball was going to be. 

Beleive it or not, most real life skills have nothing to do with being good in a video game.  Situational awareness is not a skill that transfers from the real world to make you better in most video games, especially not GW2.  Seeing information on a screen does not develop, or require any form of situational awareness, it only requires you to not be blind.  Not to mention, GW2 skills aren't exactly set up in such a way that you need to be aware of what the other guy is doing, only what is happening to your character. 

In fact, there was an article about a blind guy that raided in WoW.

GW2 is absolutely easy enough to be played by young children who have yet to develop any worthwhile skillsets.  It doesn't take a geniuse to face something and press buttons, and the game practically tells you when you need to use a particular skill.  Seriously, the screen turning red is usually a pretty good indicator to hit button 6 or start dodging.

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Angier2758

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

Its very much missing the "RPG" part IMHO.

A full fledged MMO it certainly is . But more of an "ARPG" (action role playing game) that has been simplified and is ultra casual. This is fine, but it truly lacks depth and is more "pick up and play" for a few hours here and there.

To put it simply- GW2 is more like Diablo (without the Loot) than like FF7 (without the loot). Bad comparison, I know, but I am trying to show a very stark difference in game styles- One being an ARPG.

 Well we call WoW an MMORPG yet GW2 has more roleplaying in it (factually speaking it actually does) so why is GW2 not an RPG?

Or are you of the mindset that WoW is an ARPG?

 

PS - Geezergamer : are you really suggesting that situational awareness is a child level skill?  Your post seriously doesn't make sense... first you say your average gamer will never be able to adapt to GW2's system then you say the skills that are required they teach to children.  Are you saying everyone is stupid?

You don't need to bash skills you don't have.  Situational awareness is a skill taught throughout life and is probably one of those "top tier" skills you can learn.  It;s used everywhere.

 Situational awareness isn't taught, it's developed individually.  Either you have it or you don't.  If you're an American football fan then the easiest way to explain it is, Great players tend to have very good awareness while bad players tend to have none.  The lions QB threw a deep pass into the endzone on sunday night, the wide out simply looked around in confusion because he had no idea that the ball was coming his way.  What should have been a touchdown turned into a loss of downs because the reciever had poor aweness. 

You can teach a reciever to have the best hands in the NFL, but if he has no aweness he's not going to make plays.  TO had great hands, but was never at the same level of aweness as guys like Rice or Moss, who could run 40 yards down a feild, with everything to their back, and make a catch without ever looking over their shoulders because they knew when and were the ball was going to be. 

Beleive it or not, most real life skills have nothing to do with being good in a video game.  Situational awareness is not a skill that transfers from the real world to make you better in most video games, especially not GW2.  Seeing information on a screen does not develop, or require any form of situational awareness, it only requires you to not be blind.  Not to mention, GW2 skills aren't exactly set up in such a way that you need to be aware of what the other guy is doing, only what is happening to your character. 

In fact, there was an article about a blind guy that raided in WoW.

GW2 is absolutely easy enough to be played by young children who have yet to develop any worthwhile skillsets.  It doesn't take a geniuse to face something and press buttons, and the game practically tells you when you need to use a particular skill.  Seriously, the screen turning red is usually a pretty good indicator to hit button 6 or start dodging.

My point was also missed about the fat that regardles sof what you call it. Let's say "Paying Attention" Regardless of how it's learned, developers instict or what ever. No mater what level of skill you have, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain the bigger the groups get. This fact is more profound in GW2 than in other MMOs. (Can't speak for TERA)

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

I'm not. I'm pretty sure it's some nonsense we've heard before, namely prelaunch that they've rehashed to try to make it sound logically valid.

Originally posted by TalulaRose

Originally posted by MMOwanderer

Originally posted by KingPinoy

I am currently a lvl 80 ranger, I enjoy the game, but at times I grind dungeons just for money and gear.(tokens) It does burn out quickly, but thank god its not a sub game. Sub games i always feel like i have to get my moneys worth. I see how some are burnt out, its just about what kind of player you are.

This part makes me *sigh*.

I seems people have this compulsion in sub games to "get their money's worth" in a weird way. Some are willing to give up 10 bucks for a character slot, which is IMO a rip off, but if one doesn't play the game for hours upon hours they feel like they're wasting money on their sub.

It seems like mmorpgs lonegevity isn't even judged by game mechanics and quality anymore, but about how free or not it is. Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.

Makes me wonder what would happen if GW2 had a aubscription fee.

 

Most of the people posting and playing wouldn't pay and GW2 wouldn't be the best thing since sliced bread they claim it t be.

No sub is one of the main reasons why people are playing. Just look at the thread that asked how many people spent money in the shop. 70% of the people who responded haven't. Have to wonder if the game is as good as some say if the majority of people playing don't want to spend money to support it.

 Considering games with a cash shop say they can turn a profit on just 10% of the players using the cash shop I would say 30% means the game is at least as good as people are saying. People already spent money to support it, we paid for the box. Learn how this works instead of making posts that clearly show you lack knowledge on the subject and reality of the econimics involved.

You claim MOST of the people playing would not pay, besides the obvious answer how do you know such a thing?

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

Yeah I love statements like this with no explanation.Its totally a full fledged MMO.Problem iwth people in MMO's is they think for it to be a "Real MMO" it has to have a sub fee.Not true at all.This whole thread has to be the 10th  or more thread syaing exactly the same thing all based on opinion and not fact.You know what they say about opinions .....

Abolutely this is a ful fledged MMO and has at least the Longevity of its predecessor which is plenty long for any MMO.Granted GW1 had less of the MMO Trappings but this one doesnt.

Originally posted by sookster54

 

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Originally posted by bcbully

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Originally posted by halflife25 Prime time EU, 9 servers are already on medium population. They were all high for first week. We will see how it goes in a month or so.   I haven't checked US servers during prime time.

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I've been looking at this too. US during prime time lastnight were all heavy none were full. There has been about eight or nine servers full up until the last few days.

 

 I think it's too early to use this as an indicator of anything though, because I've "heard" they increased server size. I do think the less populated severs have gotten smaller though, judging by WvW.

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Arenanet increased server capacity and turned on digital sales again, I'm assuming the server capacity also pushed the population threshold as well. Everyday on Yak's Bend, 99% of the zones kicks me into overflow during the evenings (west coast/mountain times).

That would be one way to explain the increased waiting times in WvW, since server capacity there seems to be the same still.