Originally posted by Vantras

I love how folks pretend that a founder who sells his/her company to a huge corporate entity is somehow innocent when that huge company butchers the original vision, guts the brand or exploits its strengths.  They call it "selling out" for a reason. These guys built a great company, saw an oppurtunity to reap an enormous harvest when they sold to EA-but they did so with their eyes wide open-they took the cash and sold the baby.  Acting as if their departure now is somehow an act of defiance at how the baby they knowingly sold is being raised is naive and absurd. 

I dont blame them at all for selling but i also wont pretend that they arent 100% culpable in what BW has turned into.

This.

Some of us here tryed to warn yas that EA would destroy BW and splinter them as they chose .. we were told we didnt know what we were talking about and were clueless...

                            Aint that rich..

Originally posted by adam_nox
After fan backlash over 3 recent releases, I can't blame them for retiring.  Even if they didn't feel like EA was sucking the life out of the gaming industry and their souls, the constant whining and crying of people regarding DA2 and ME3 would be enough to make anyone give the gaming industry the middle finger.

They didnt really make DA 1 or 2, it was made by a new studio EA just stamped Bioware on. In fact EA have 4 Bioware studios now, and only one is really the original even if most of the old people are long gone.

The whining about the ending of ME3 was certainly not nice to hear but knowing what EA did to the game with microtransactions were probably at least as bad.

All these companies have to do is see what EA the destroyer of game companies has done in the past and that should have been enough info to not sell out to them, but noooooooo all these people are morons and will keep selling their companies to EA.  

well its probably more to do with greed then being morons...

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Originally posted by Vantras

I love how folks pretend that a founder who sells his/her company to a huge corporate entity is somehow innocent when that huge company butchers the original vision, guts the brand or exploits its strengths.  They call it "selling out" for a reason. These guys built a great company, saw an oppurtunity to reap an enormous harvest when they sold to EA-but they did so with their eyes wide open-they took the cash and sold the baby.  Acting as if their departure now is somehow an act of defiance at how the baby they knowingly sold is being raised is naive and absurd. 

I dont blame them at all for selling but i also wont pretend that they arent 100% culpable in what BW has turned into.

This.

I'm guessing none of you are aware that these two didn't own Bioware. They didn't sell Bioware. They were probably trying to make the best of a losing situation and it took its toll.

A bit of education: http://www.elevation.com/EP_port_item.asp?id=1

Originally posted by DSWBeef
Code for "We hate what EA has done to BW, so we're gone"

The hits just keep on coming with BW and EA.

Hope to see these two again with a real SW MMO.

Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
*A moment of silence*

 --------------------------as I walk through the valley of death I shall fear no evil

Originally posted by adam_nox
After fan backlash over 3 recent releases, I can't blame them for retiring.  Even if they didn't feel like EA was sucking the life out of the gaming industry and their souls, the constant whining and crying of people regarding DA2 and ME3 would be enough to make anyone give the gaming industry the middle finger.

 I wrote Bioware off after NWN.  I received as gifts the original ME and DA:O.  Havent played or bought any Bioware games since then., they have been dead to me for a long while. on to my point, everything I read and heard about DA2 and ME3 would lead me to believe that the criticisms heaped upon both of these guys was more then deserved.  You know what you can do with that middle finger of yours ?  Enjoy.

Personally I think this has little to do with EA.

When Bioware was sold to EA, the studio was arguably at the top of its game (at least financially). They had no funding short falls, no real debt to speak of, and some of the most talented developers and designers in the industry under the Bioware banner. SWTOR was fully funded by Bioware's investors and Lucas Arts, Mass Effect had proven to be a successful console RPG, and Dragon Age: Origins was promising to be a stellar PC RPG franchise. They had all of the bases covered, and the future seemed bright.

The only reason to sell at that point in a company's history is if you wish to make the most money you can from a sell off, and that implies that the company holds no value beyond the economics of the arrangement. If that is true, if Greg and Ray sold because they wanted to make money, it's pretty self evident that they already had a desire to exit the industry. They were already VERY hands off with the development of Bioware games, leaving most of the running to senior developers and designers such as Casey Hudson.

I doubt it has anything to do with EA. I think these two guys have been making video games for 20+ years. They've made some of the best, most engaging RPGs in the history of gaming, and they've made a shed load of money.

So yeah... people should stop and think before they point their bitter fingers at EA. EA isn't a great company, certainly, but sometimes it's not the problem. Sometimes there are other things to consider.

Originally posted by ishist

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Originally posted by Vantras

I love how folks pretend that a founder who sells his/her company to a huge corporate entity is somehow innocent when that huge company butchers the original vision, guts the brand or exploits its strengths.  They call it "selling out" for a reason. These guys built a great company, saw an oppurtunity to reap an enormous harvest when they sold to EA-but they did so with their eyes wide open-they took the cash and sold the baby.  Acting as if their departure now is somehow an act of defiance at how the baby they knowingly sold is being raised is naive and absurd. 

I dont blame them at all for selling but i also wont pretend that they arent 100% culpable in what BW has turned into.

This.

I'm guessing none of you are aware that these two didn't own Bioware. They didn't sell Bioware. They were probably trying to make the best of a losing situation and it took its toll.

A bit of education: http://www.elevation.com/EP_port_item.asp?id=1

 

 

Greg and Ray sold Bioware and Pandemic to Elevation Partners in return for lofty stakes in Elevation, as well as seats on the board of directors of Elevation. In addition to this, employees at Bioware also got stakes in Elevation.

The deal CLEARLY outlined a "partnership of equals"; no single entity within the arrangement held any more authority than another. Bioware, Pandemic and Elevation were equals.

You need to go and read the literature, my friend. When Bioware was sold to EA, Greg and Ray would have had to approve it :) They were complicit in the sale, not victims of it.

Mark Jacobs left EA Mythic just over ten months after WAR was launched and about two months after the major staff cuts that kicked in post launch. And that was pretty much the end of Mythic.

Ray & Greg have left just over nine months after SWTOR was launched and about five months after the start of major staff cuts (6 months notice being needed it seems). And that, I feel, is pretty much the "end" of Bioware.

Looking forward I can see an EA reorganisation and EA Bioware being combined with either EA Maxis or EA Interactive - Sports, Social and "the rest" maybe.

Originally posted by Loke666

Crud, those 2 were the last good of Bioware.

I hope they after a year or so doing other stuff realize that they are good at making games and start something new (and this time dont selll to EA no matter what they pay).

My hat is off, Bioware we knew is now offcially gone. 

Lets remember them for the good games they made, like Baldurs gate I & II and NWN.

Good luck both of you. And Greg, you cant go wrong with beer. :)

They probably had to sign a "no compete" when they sold out to EA. So even if they wanted to do otherwise, they are probably out of comission for working on games for however long that lasts.