Trending Games | Pirate101 | ArcheAge | Wasteland 2 | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,859,136 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,244,264
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I miss the trinity, how about you?

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
135 posts found
  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

9/18/12 10:33:29 AM#81
Well I must say that I am sick of dieing in dungeons even with a group that know what they are doing you still die to much if you ask me. Can't say I miss it and like the difficulty of the dungeons but these deaths are a bit much, boss damage should be toned down 10%.
  Reas43

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/11
Posts: 308

9/18/12 10:45:09 AM#82
Non-trinity systems have already been done in the past. GW2 is not a pioneer in this regard. They made just another attempt or adaptation to the non-trinity system. Some game's have even gone beyond that and disposed of classes altogether. They haven't been hits. Invariably if the content is to remain challenging it becomes to obnoxious to complete for the average player. If the content then gets nerfed enough for the average PuG to be able to complete it proficiently efficiently enough then it bd ones a dumbed down zergfest for everyone else. GW2 (as evidenced by the latest developer interview) is now manifesting the earlier symptoms. The "declare" content will remain unchangrled. Either "customers" will "rise to the challenge" and conquer the dungeons or become bored and dissatisfied. Content they can't complete might as well not exist for them. Knowing thenature of humanity it's inevitable that they'll be nerfing those dungeons in a couple of months. Trinity systems have strengths and weaknesses. So do trinity-less systems. They are not an improvement, just a different way to go about thongs. Which have generally turned out not being the best way to do them in the MMO genre. But hey! It's GW2! They're DIFFERENT! They shall succeed where none have!
  Onecrazyguy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/08
Posts: 86

9/18/12 10:50:46 AM#83
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by bubaluba
If no trinity is good be sure that Blizzard would adopt this idea. They tried to create something new in gw2 but only what they did is simplification of everything.

Not really, Blizzard wont totally revamp the base mechanics of Wow no matter what, not worth the chanse.

And it is not simplification, the trinity is as simple as anything can get. 1 guy tank, 1 guy heal, 3 guys DPS is still the simplest mechnic around. Often everyone can just stand still and rotate skills.

Then of course trinity can be more advanced with CC and buffing, but you really dont need them in modern MMOs like you did in EQ.

They don't need to. It's GW2 that has the rez-fest type of dungeoning, not WoW. There's little to no strategy in dungeons in GW2, at least the trinity sets up the basic strategy from the start. As for simpler, I'd argue GW2 IS simpler - they didn't have to mess with class balance by doing it their way, you don't need any type of group, etc. But whatever, some like it. I'm sure we'll see in the next 30 days how well the game is sticking.

  Onecrazyguy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/08
Posts: 86

9/18/12 10:53:13 AM#84
Originally posted by Apropo
Originally posted by Sylvarii

ArenaNet haven't removed the holy trinity of tanking damage, healing damage, and dealing damage in Guild Wars 2. They consolidated it. Everyone can tank, everyone can heal, and everyone can nuke. 

Nope,the holy trinity dispite ArenaNets claims is alive and kicking in GW2.

(TL/DR = I do not miss the Trinity and if I did, I'd go play the countless games that have that system.  I do not want that system in Guild Wars 2 and if they changed to that system I'd rip the game out of my computer and move on!)

Since you said "the holy trinity is alive and kicking in GW2" I feel like something needs clarification. In a dungeon within Guild Wars 2, There is No specific class that can only be a healer? Nobody can only Tank and all classes can, if they so choose only be dps?  Your blanket over exaggerated statement and definition is NOT what the standard meaning of "Trinity" is.  Every game before Guild Wars 2 that defined the term does not fit your overexaggerated blanket consolidation term. Infact the "Trinity" when it refers to MMORPG's usually =

1 specific class is a TANK the entire battle.

1 specific class is a HEALER the entire encounter.

1 specific class is a DPS the entire battle.

This is why so many people have had to sit around LFG 1 Specific Role and wait for the specific class to come around and heal or tank an instance.... The major flaw in your statement is "everyone can heal" WRONG, nobody can traditionaly heal, and if you played any character like a traditional tank, your characters self heal would do you absolutely no good.   So no, flat out no.  Now I suppose if you wanted to change the definition along with the twisted delusional consolidation of roles, then okay I guess yep lets all change the meaning and move on...  Sorry doesn't work that way, we don't just make up our own definitions for the hell of it and then expect everyone to take anything we have to say seriously.

There are no specific classes for specific roles in Guild Wars 2 and NONE fit the traditional "HEALER" or even "TANK" categories, saying so is over simplifying and over exaggerating the terms.  Each class has the ability to Support, DPS, and Mitigate damage as well as coordinate all of that with each other via Combo Fields.  The key is to switch roles accordingly depending on the situation in the battle.  Just because each class has the ability to do all the things needed in a given battle doesn't mean there isn't need for coordination and job assignments.  Seems like simple logic to me but I guess its not. But if you tell someone who is use to the Trinity system from WoW or any other game, to try and impliment that same exact traditional system into Guild Wars 2, you get what we have here. Crying about missing the traditional Trinity...

 

Now to the OP's Question.  "Do I miss the Trinity?"

Being a former Raid and Dungeon group leader for hundreds and hudreds of countless hours in over a variety of different games for more then a decade, I am extremely comfortable with the "Trinity" system. Unlike some other naive individuals, I'm not confused as to what the definition is.  I've done it, I've taught it, I've practice it for an extremely long time.   It is a crude system needed to be in place in previous games to help people fit roles specifically so they didn't have to think for themselves.  All anyone needed to do was pick the role they wanted to fit and level to max, practice that role and there you have it.   No thinking needed because you knew the specific limited role you were going to fill.  How ever the class system in RIFT pleased me, it was still limiting and still caused encounters to rely on specific roles.

I DO NOT MISS this limiting and old system.   I hated waiting around for a worthwhile healer, or a tank that didn't have some kind of complex... Or the blame game, "Tank didn't hold agro", "Healer didn't get out of red circles" "DPS Pulled more mobs" Now that I've played Guild Wars 2 it has made me DESPISE the trinity, absolutely despise it...

Guild Wars 2 current system needs a bit of fine tuning to make sure each member of a group can clearly distinguish the combo fields.    I don't think there is an issue with Guild Wars 2's system I think the players who are so engrained with "gaming muscle memory" are having a hard time learning, adapting and using this system and then crying for their old "baby blanket and bottle" trinity system.  

 

It is hard to think for yourself, it is hard to coordinate a group and expect the people you are grouping with to fit specific roles you need.   That is part of being a Raid Leader / Dungeon Group Leader.  You sit down find the people who are the best at certain roles and you build your team with them.   In Guild Wars 2 you need people who are quick at CC, people who are quick at responding to bleeds / poisons with cleanses, people who are extremely aware of their surroundings and much more.    I find Guild Wars 2 system far more comlpex and that is causing even some of my closest friends to cry about no trinity, which when a group leader worth his salt comes in and orginizes the party, they stopped crying and enjoyed themselves.

Here is the problem group leaders will face.  They will need to know the capabilities of each class to determine which roles from each class they will need to fit the desired jobs within his team.

 

 

More like total rework than "fine tuning" IMO.

 

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2861

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

9/18/12 10:54:22 AM#85
Damage, CC, Support. Thats their trinity. If you miss one of those, your going to suffer greatly for it.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2993

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/18/12 10:56:36 AM#86
No, I always hated the trinity.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2993

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/18/12 10:57:51 AM#87
Originally posted by Purutzil
Damage, CC, Support. Thats their trinity. If you miss one of those, your going to suffer greatly for it.

It's a little different though, because one class might fufill each of those roles at different times during a single encounter. So its a little misleading to imply that theres someone dedicated to CC or Support.

  HensenLiros

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 473

"Tolerance is a sign of weakness."

9/18/12 10:58:46 AM#88

Those threads are starting to get boring by now.

Taking out the trinity did NOT make things simpler. Stating such thing is completely absurd and unfounded. Yes, things may LOOK simpler according to your perspective (a level 30 surely still thinks that every build is "doable" and works - you just invite people with random builds and the dungeon will surely go smooth, right?), but when you get to explorable high-end dungeons and tournaments, things really don't work like that.

You don't have tank/dps/healer anymore, but when forming a explo group you'll want to search separately for condition/ power/ CC/ etc builds. You can't get a group with players with power builds and expect to either survive or take down bosses within a reasonable amount of time.

And the strategies are there. It's not a random killfest and buttonsmash like most new players think. For example there are some groups running around with confusion-based specs and builds to counter high output damage melee bosses (like thief doppelgangers). Other bosses for example get rid of one cond every X seconds, so you have to cover your bleeds and vulnerabilities with fast conds like burn.

And seriously, what's the deal with you people expecting full strategies to appear less than 1 month after a completely new spec system has developed? Yes, there are few group spec builds so far, but just wait a few weeks and you'll start to see the infamous "3-2 engi/necro burncover bleed"-like group builds popping around.

Lastly, you couldn't be more wrong regarding it being easier to find groups. For low-level content yes, because you don't really specialized groups to do story mode easy dungeons, or even explo non-speed runs - which I hope isn't the point you're trying to make. But when you get to high-end content, you'll start seeing people looking for "blowi gs blink mesmers" for tournaments and speed runs.

People need to play the game before having a opinion about everything.

Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG

  User Deleted
9/18/12 11:03:55 AM#89
Originally posted by Onecrazyguy
Originally posted by Apropo
Originally posted by Sylvarii

ArenaNet haven't removed the holy trinity of tanking damage, healing damage, and dealing damage in Guild Wars 2. They consolidated it. Everyone can tank, everyone can heal, and everyone can nuke. 

Nope,the holy trinity dispite ArenaNets claims is alive and kicking in GW2.

(TL/DR = I do not miss the Trinity and if I did, I'd go play the countless games that have that system.  I do not want that system in Guild Wars 2 and if they changed to that system I'd rip the game out of my computer and move on!)

Since you said "the holy trinity is alive and kicking in GW2" I feel like something needs clarification. In a dungeon within Guild Wars 2, There is No specific class that can only be a healer? Nobody can only Tank and all classes can, if they so choose only be dps?  Your blanket over exaggerated statement and definition is NOT what the standard meaning of "Trinity" is.  Every game before Guild Wars 2 that defined the term does not fit your overexaggerated blanket consolidation term. Infact the "Trinity" when it refers to MMORPG's usually =

1 specific class is a TANK the entire battle.

1 specific class is a HEALER the entire encounter.

1 specific class is a DPS the entire battle.

This is why so many people have had to sit around LFG 1 Specific Role and wait for the specific class to come around and heal or tank an instance.... The major flaw in your statement is "everyone can heal" WRONG, nobody can traditionaly heal, and if you played any character like a traditional tank, your characters self heal would do you absolutely no good.   So no, flat out no.  Now I suppose if you wanted to change the definition along with the twisted delusional consolidation of roles, then okay I guess yep lets all change the meaning and move on...  Sorry doesn't work that way, we don't just make up our own definitions for the hell of it and then expect everyone to take anything we have to say seriously.

There are no specific classes for specific roles in Guild Wars 2 and NONE fit the traditional "HEALER" or even "TANK" categories, saying so is over simplifying and over exaggerating the terms.  Each class has the ability to Support, DPS, and Mitigate damage as well as coordinate all of that with each other via Combo Fields.  The key is to switch roles accordingly depending on the situation in the battle.  Just because each class has the ability to do all the things needed in a given battle doesn't mean there isn't need for coordination and job assignments.  Seems like simple logic to me but I guess its not. But if you tell someone who is use to the Trinity system from WoW or any other game, to try and impliment that same exact traditional system into Guild Wars 2, you get what we have here. Crying about missing the traditional Trinity...

 

Now to the OP's Question.  "Do I miss the Trinity?"

Being a former Raid and Dungeon group leader for hundreds and hudreds of countless hours in over a variety of different games for more then a decade, I am extremely comfortable with the "Trinity" system. Unlike some other naive individuals, I'm not confused as to what the definition is.  I've done it, I've taught it, I've practice it for an extremely long time.   It is a crude system needed to be in place in previous games to help people fit roles specifically so they didn't have to think for themselves.  All anyone needed to do was pick the role they wanted to fit and level to max, practice that role and there you have it.   No thinking needed because you knew the specific limited role you were going to fill.  How ever the class system in RIFT pleased me, it was still limiting and still caused encounters to rely on specific roles.

I DO NOT MISS this limiting and old system.   I hated waiting around for a worthwhile healer, or a tank that didn't have some kind of complex... Or the blame game, "Tank didn't hold agro", "Healer didn't get out of red circles" "DPS Pulled more mobs" Now that I've played Guild Wars 2 it has made me DESPISE the trinity, absolutely despise it...

Guild Wars 2 current system needs a bit of fine tuning to make sure each member of a group can clearly distinguish the combo fields.    I don't think there is an issue with Guild Wars 2's system I think the players who are so engrained with "gaming muscle memory" are having a hard time learning, adapting and using this system and then crying for their old "baby blanket and bottle" trinity system.  

 

It is hard to think for yourself, it is hard to coordinate a group and expect the people you are grouping with to fit specific roles you need.   That is part of being a Raid Leader / Dungeon Group Leader.  You sit down find the people who are the best at certain roles and you build your team with them.   In Guild Wars 2 you need people who are quick at CC, people who are quick at responding to bleeds / poisons with cleanses, people who are extremely aware of their surroundings and much more.    I find Guild Wars 2 system far more comlpex and that is causing even some of my closest friends to cry about no trinity, which when a group leader worth his salt comes in and orginizes the party, they stopped crying and enjoyed themselves.

Here is the problem group leaders will face.  They will need to know the capabilities of each class to determine which roles from each class they will need to fit the desired jobs within his team.

 

 

More like total rework than "fine tuning" IMO.

 

In what way do they need to totally rework these dungeons? Thats a laugh. I agree with fine tuning or bug fixing, but the setup is fine enough for those who want a challenge and not want it to be trivial.

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

9/18/12 11:11:06 AM#90

No, the trinity is awful and you know it.

 

There's problems in GW2's dungeons which are related to balance.

The trinity filters people into predetermined roles and leaves very little to move around.

 

The lack of trinity works, but the dungeons need polishing.

 

  HensenLiros

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 473

"Tolerance is a sign of weakness."

9/18/12 11:12:06 AM#91
Originally posted by Onecrazyguy
Originally posted by Apropo
Originally posted by Sylvarii

ArenaNet haven't removed the holy trinity of tanking damage, healing damage, and dealing damage in Guild Wars 2. They consolidated it. Everyone can tank, everyone can heal, and everyone can nuke. 

Nope,the holy trinity dispite ArenaNets claims is alive and kicking in GW2.

Long post

More like total rework than "fine tuning" IMO.

 

You surely looks like an expert on this subject.

Mind posting some videos of your own explo speed run of high end dungeons?

Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG

  TdogSkal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 1259

Do not fear death, Death will come a knocking anytime it wants.

9/18/12 11:22:24 AM#92
Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by Yamota

I wasn't a particular fan of the trinity system but now that it is not here anymore I miss it. Specially compared to whatever Arena Net has replaced it with. For example I used to play CC/Healer utility class and I cant seem to do that properly here. Either the heals/CC are too weak, too small radius or too long cooldown. So right now I dont know what kind of role my Elementalist does as the only thing he can do consistently is DPS.

Well dps AND run around like a spastic with ants in his pants.

Well Elementalist can become main healers if they spec for it.  My roommate does DPS sure but he can out heal most other classes and does so in Dungeons all the time.

I think that as more people learn their professions (the biggest thing right now is people do not learn their professions, they just stick to what they know) we will see alot more "roles' being filled.

Sooner or Later

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5577

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

9/18/12 11:35:03 AM#93
Originally posted by dariuszp
 

 

Trinity never enforced collaboration. Trinity enforced ONE ROLE for YOUR ENTIRE TIME. You were doomed to heal or be punching bag whole f***** time. In GW2 you can take any role you want and they just switch to something else. 

 

This is why i dont miss Trinity when im playing GW2. Sure ill focus on my DPS role only when i play Trinity focused mmos but here i have variety and lots of fun switching roles at will. Also, In GW2 i dont have the problems i had in WoW and other mmos.  For example, i always roll DPS in WoW. If i want to constantly be running dungeons i have to be healer or tank and i dont like those roles. Also i like to do teamwork without having to depend strictly on the tanker to keep aggro and healer to keep me alive. 

But again, like Eir_S said, devs now have 2 different and succesful systems to make mmos. Trinity and non trinity. More variety is always better IF done right.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

9/18/12 12:08:05 PM#94
Originally posted by demz

Honestly, yes. I kind of miss it. Only because everyone is ranged. I reckon it is the outcome when everyone can do everything. So what class are you? I am a warrior. I use a bow/gun. Everyone everywhere uses range because being melee sucks rotten stinking donkey butthole. Sure there are those few that love to tell you they are awesome and the other 500000 billion% are wrong but for the most part, no, it is not fun. 

As melee (not healer or tank those non-existent pricks) I have to double tap buttons twice (got two in me) to avoid things but if there is more than a few mobs near each other I am screwed. Or I could stand back and hit my cooldowns and randomly stroll around while I train on melee. Without some idea of what, if anything, someone is doing it feels like a giant cluster-you-know-what. 

 

Learn to play.   Seriously.   Ranged is rarely necessary or worth it for the Warrior.    Only they hyper-tough World Event bosses where being melee is an insta-death-ticket due to massive close range/wide-area AoE attacks.

 

As for the rest...   Another whiner topic from people who need to learn to play.    Even my ranger does as much melee as ranged because it's that good when you know how...

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

9/18/12 12:11:56 PM#95

Apart from the token 'L2P' guy above me, i think this topic is just ..well out of place.

There are lot of things to criticize about GW2 but holy trinity is not one of them.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

9/18/12 12:12:06 PM#96
Originally posted by IstrebiteI

Dont miss tank-healer-dps segregation at all. All it does is lower the potential of groups and your skillcap. It's a flawed mechanic both mechanic-wise (as it forces you into a role instead of allowing you to find it out yourself how you can benefit your group most) and immersion-wise (its stupid how state of your health becomes a simple vessel, which has liquid being poured into by some players and drained by monsters, its even more stupid how the enemies are dumbest asses ever, attacking the least preferred target - the one that is hardest to kill but does no real damage to them).

I think GW2 is the step in right direction. Not to say they hit hte nail in the head and made THE BEST SYSTEM EVAH, but its a start. You can go on from there. But segregation into set roles of heal, tank, dps has to go.

 

Yeah, I always thought that was a major flaw in the design.   The boss should have killed the healer first, then the dps, than that low-impact slug in the thick tin-can...

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

9/18/12 12:14:18 PM#97
Originally posted by TdogSkal
Originally posted by Tardcore
Originally posted by Yamota

I wasn't a particular fan of the trinity system but now that it is not here anymore I miss it. Specially compared to whatever Arena Net has replaced it with. For example I used to play CC/Healer utility class and I cant seem to do that properly here. Either the heals/CC are too weak, too small radius or too long cooldown. So right now I dont know what kind of role my Elementalist does as the only thing he can do consistently is DPS.

Well dps AND run around like a spastic with ants in his pants.

Well Elementalist can become main healers if they spec for it.  My roommate does DPS sure but he can out heal most other classes and does so in Dungeons all the time.

I think that as more people learn their professions (the biggest thing right now is people do not learn their professions, they just stick to what they know) we will see alot more "roles' being filled.

Explain to me how to spec. for it. Staff healing and water specced is the best setup I can make with my Elementalist and I still cannot heal consistently. Basically Healing Rain has too long cooldown, even with -20% CD trait, and geyser is too weak and too small radius to effectively use as healing. So I dont see how it is possible to spec. for main healer as Elementalist, secondary maybe but not main.

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6169

9/18/12 12:14:45 PM#98
Nope don't miss it.  And as people start to understand the dugnones over the next 3 months you will start to not miss it either and begin to understand how to do deal a more tactical based approach rather than a static always do this approach.
  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

9/18/12 12:16:45 PM#99

Nope not at all, enjoy life guys, have fun, and peace.

 

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  User Deleted
9/18/12 12:18:10 PM#100
Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by demz

Honestly, yes. I kind of miss it. Only because everyone is ranged. I reckon it is the outcome when everyone can do everything. So what class are you? I am a warrior. I use a bow/gun. Everyone everywhere uses range because being melee sucks rotten stinking donkey butthole. Sure there are those few that love to tell you they are awesome and the other 500000 billion% are wrong but for the most part, no, it is not fun. 

As melee (not healer or tank those non-existent pricks) I have to double tap buttons twice (got two in me) to avoid things but if there is more than a few mobs near each other I am screwed. Or I could stand back and hit my cooldowns and randomly stroll around while I train on melee. Without some idea of what, if anything, someone is doing it feels like a giant cluster-you-know-what. 

 

Learn to play.   Seriously.   Ranged is rarely necessary or worth it for the Warrior.    Only they hyper-tough World Event bosses where being melee is an insta-death-ticket due to massive close range/wide-area AoE attacks.

 

As for the rest...   Another whiner topic from people who need to learn to play.    Even my ranger does as much melee as ranged because it's that good when you know how...

Gotta laugh at the ignorance of most people when it comes to ranged vs. melee. They probably go in melee once, get rocked then instinctly never go back in, afraid that it will happen again. Its like watching someone touch a hot stove, then assume that the stove will burn them everytime whether it is on or off. If you know when to go in and do some damage then get out before you die, it's really not that hard to play as both classes. Warrior ranged is crap in most cases, and they excel far more in melee for damage, but I'm not going to stay in melee because it does more damage, nor stay at range because I'm afraid to get burned. I mix it up to keep myself alive and to utilize my class properly. So honestly, your learn to play is true, people are just too afraid of change and love to generalize everything into classes or fight mechanics. No dungeon is anti-melee, you just assume it is.

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search