Trending Games | EverQuest Next | Guild Wars 2 | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,920,736 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,312,417
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Reviews vs reality check and the F2P future

17 posts found
  Deewe

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1983

 
OP  9/14/12 4:52:44 PM#1

@launch it started with Michel Bitton official review, to which I replied lenghily here and here. Followed by An humble take on SWTOR road to keep subscribers

 

Looking back, seems I wasn't that far away from the reality check but maybe for the fact I totally missed how deep the producer(s) and a few leads could be wrong in the upcoming changes and focus of their efforts.

 

Out of the 23 entries mentionned in my suggestions, the following points have been adressed in 6 months:

  • UI
  • LFG
  • Guild bank
  • Gear mods: (half done but for sets bonues transfers)
  • World events: (halway with the 2 live events)

 

Now comes a new Sheriff in Town: Matthew Bromberg (interview).
Guess i'ts time to take a new look at this ;)
 
----------------------------------------
 
 
1)  Let's be realistic here, making V.O. content costs a lot of money, takes time and is (mostly) fun only the first time you run through it.
=> Unless they get their desired 3 millions player don't expect lots of V.O content for sure. 
 
2) The 6 weeks content might look very thin compared to what others MMO are able to do, especialy regarding they need to develop new content, add features already existing in other games and well fix the broken stuff. All that with a reduced and certainly demotivated staff.
 
3) There won't be world PvP in TOR at all. The gee invasion will occur on a specific planet, so a bigger instance. And they'll keep focusing on delivering new WZ.
 
4) They are already wasting time and subscribers $$$ on new on rails space mission with a team dedicated to it.
 
5) No hints at all for socialization incentives nor focus. 
 
 
Meanwhile, GW2 hit pretty hard. The mighty panda is closing in and Rift is about to deliver a quite impressive xpack. Wildstar looks really fun too and Planetside 2 might certainly appeal players fond of FPS and Sci-Fi. Even LotRo with mounted combat and horses customization looks more appealing than TOR.
 
Might be very rough upcoming months for TOR.
 
 

 

 

 

 

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/14/12 5:06:19 PM#2

Quite simple- Payola and Plugola are alive and well in the gaming industry.

To believe the "Reviews" you would have to also believe that there has been NOT 1 AAA game in the last 5 years to be average or below average- Every AAA MMO has been averaging a 7.5- 8.5/10. It woyuld SEEM we have a "golden age" of great games.

"Reviews" in this day and age are paid advertisments. The Payment is either DIRECT or indirect but its paid nevertheless. And this extends to even "News" agencies (the pinnacle of a democracy is a free press so our choices are INFORMED) and is a result of GREED.

SWTOR flopped for many reasons and will not recover. But in this disposible society these "reviews" made certain that initial box sales were very high.

EDIT: Re reading this post from the other day I would like to add- I do  not "Blame" MMORPG.COM or any other "reviewers" from entering into this "you scratch my back and I will scratch yours" agreement- Its a culture which extends from the TOP DOWN.

NPR ran stories about Orange Juice as NEWS STORIES (later turned out to be paid ads) as have Faux news, CNN, MSNBC etc... When our "watch dogs" (the Press) become Lap Dogs to the highest bidder- This "culture" trickles down into Game/Music/Movie reviews as well.

Its corruption bleeding downword.

  Deewe

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1983

 
OP  9/16/12 2:55:16 PM#3
Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Quite simple- Payola and Plugola are alive and well in the gaming industry.

To believe the "Reviews" you would have to also believe that there has been NOT 1 AAA game in the last 5 years to be average or below average- Every AAA MMO has been averaging a 7.5- 8.5/10. It woyuld SEEM we have a "golden age" of great games.

"Reviews" in this day and age are paid advertisments. The Payment is either DIRECT or indirect but its paid nevertheless. And this extends to even "News" agencies (the pinnacle of a democracy is a free press so our choices are INFORMED) and is a result of GREED.

SWTOR flopped for many reasons and will not recover. But in this disposible society these "reviews" made certain that initial box sales were very high.

I'd say TOR can still recover, but I'm not sure the new management got it right.

 

Especially wasting time with the space shooter, not focusing efforrs on world PvP and well not expanding into the sandboxes features. The last ones being what makes players stay instead of burning content and leaving.

  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

9/16/12 4:21:27 PM#4

SWTOR has some content and qualities few other MMOs can provide.

They've got *eight* full-blown personal stories with quality voiceover content and cinematics. Granted, the writing isn't as good as some single player games, but it's still enough to offer a solid leveling experience for people who enjoy story-focused RPGs.

They've got some cool dungeons with story content and multiplayer dialogue.

They've got the Star Wars worlds, which frankly they botched up quite a bit, but I guess they can always bring in new ones, conceived and implemented better.

Thing is, the standard MMO tropes they use are outright bland. Standard MMO features won't save this game. LFG won't save this game. Raids won't save this game. PVP battlegrounds won't save this game.

SWTOR will live and die by its non-WOW-ish features. Like story, character, the Star Wars universe. If they're going to expand on their game, they should focus on things the current champions of the genre doesn't provide.

A full-blown space game could be part of that. Yeah, it might prove to be quite the work, but at least it's something special. It's better than trying to out-WOW WOW itself.

Things that will make people think "Star Wars!" could be part of that. Like swoop races, Pazaak, etc. 

Better exploration could be part of that. 

In short, they have to go the Star Wars route, and not your-standard-MMO route.

Tnis  game had a chance to be unique from top to toe, but agonizingly missed that chance. Bioware can re-prioritize and save the game or watch it die, in my opinion.

 

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

9/16/12 4:28:48 PM#5

They could bring in God to mange this game and as long as he tries to bill this as an MMORPG, and develop it as such...God will fail to keep subscribers.

Yes, I basically just said that SWTOR is such a bad MMO that not even God could save it. Stop pretending this is an MMORPG and start treating it as an SPRG with multiplayer fuctions, go real F2P and forget this freemium/paytrap crap and put some focus into a shop with decent micro-transactions...make THAT your monitary focus and they MAY...MAY do as well as some of the real F2P games.

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

9/16/12 4:39:59 PM#6
Originally posted by rdrakken

They could bring in God to mange this game and as long as he tries to bill this as an MMORPG, and develop it as such...God will fail to keep subscribers.

Yes, I basically just said that SWTOR is such a bad MMO that not even God could save it. Stop pretending this is an MMORPG and start treating it as an SPRG with multiplayer fuctions, go real F2P and forget this freemium/paytrap crap and put some focus into a shop with decent micro-transactions...make THAT your monitary focus and they MAY...MAY do as well as some of the real F2P games.

Well said-

If this had been KOTOR 3 and marketed as a single player game with online multiplayer (no sub/cash shop) this could have been a good game.

The "game" itself isnt BAD for what it is. For an MMORPG its terrible. A railed story game with l;ittle to do "off the beaten path" does not make a good MMO. 

  Thenextbigthing

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/12
Posts: 113

9/17/12 5:59:23 PM#7

Shame about the dropping of open world pvp, that might have been the one thing that brought me back when it goes f2p.

 

I expect they will either drop more playable alien races as well, or they'll be available in the cash shop.

 

I agree with what's been said. It was always a half-decent single player rpg, but never a successful mmorpg worth a monthly sub.

  Zuvielify

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/11
Posts: 170

9/17/12 6:06:17 PM#8

There was only a few things I wanted in this game and they didn't really deliver on any of them. I was such a fanboi leading up to this game, and I was completely let down by 1 month in.

Here's what I wanted and didn't get:

1. Badass Jedi combat.

2. Swoop Racing, ideally competitive against other players. 

3. Pazaak 

This post on the official forums is exactly what I wanted. If they ever deliver these, I will maybe come back to the game

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=512849

  Demmi77

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 224

9/17/12 9:52:35 PM#9

bioware lost touch with the people that make them successful, the players.

listen, star wars galaxies wasn't great by any means. However, let's take the total subscribers over years and years of coming and going from swg. Let's take the SOE number which were 1mil units sold and subscribers which were 20k. Lets say roughly 200k star wars mmo players. This isn't factual and you all know i am being generous here.

200k players, is a huge base to accomodate. Unfortunately, that huge star wars galaxies base, those players that quit nge, and those that stuck through it, were largely ignored. Bioware refused to acknowledge adding ANY features from swg to swtor. They openly admitted that they would never add any feature. 

Right there, you have shunned 200k star wars fans. Right there, you have put a sour , poor P.R  move in your game.

let's move forward to development and beta. Any of you in the beta that played through it remember the bugs, the performance and total lack of end game. Bioware was dedicated to taking their "great" story telling and applying it to a mmo. The community, in a very valiant attempt tried to tell bioware that the strength of the game shouldn't  be the leveling, it should be what happens when you are done leveling.

Imagine if there was say hardly any voice overs, cut scenese , and much smaller zones while leveling. When you get to max level you choose your path, you get the rest of your companions, you get a space ship. Not entirely to this extreme, but bioware focused on teh journey leaving absolutely nothing at the end.

again, the community was aware of this, it was reported to the devs.

You see, the star wars community is different than the warcraft community. If people want warcraft they play world of warcraft. People that want star wars want a galaxy at war. They want a game where being social can be a career. They want a game where you are a "bounty hunter". Creating "you" is what's important to most star wars fans. Bioware never grasped what star wars IS, they dont graps what star wars needs to be.

The game is star wars. There is very little war between the stars. I am referring to space combat. It's a single player mini game, with no social interaction. No galaxy domination, no ship progression. It's an insult to anyone who truly appreciates star wars.

I am a very old gamer. I remember playing the original final fantasies on NES. I remember my first p.c game being quake and moving on to my first mmorpg which was EQ. I remember games being developed by passionate gamers who developed worlds that sucked you in. 

Bioware made a huge mistake ignoring the people that ultimately make them successful, the players, the customers, and the fans of star wars. We didn't want this turd, but we gave it a chance, now we have all returned to greener pastures. They can make it f2p, they can add more flashpoints, they can tinker with pvp, but ultimately the game was developed with a very SELFISH mindset and it cost them millions in stocks, investors, and ultimately reputation.

 

  Demmi77

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 224

9/17/12 9:58:57 PM#10

"It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages."

-Henry Ford

  Deewe

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1983

 
OP  9/17/12 10:59:07 PM#11
Originally posted by Demmi77

bioware lost touch with the people that make them successful, the players.

listen, star wars galaxies wasn't great by any means. However, let's take the total subscribers over years and years of coming and going from swg. Let's take the SOE number which were 1mil units sold and subscribers which were 20k. Lets say roughly 200k star wars mmo players. This isn't factual and you all know i am being generous here.

200k players, is a huge base to accomodate. Unfortunately, that huge star wars galaxies base, those players that quit nge, and those that stuck through it, were largely ignored. Bioware refused to acknowledge adding ANY features from swg to swtor. They openly admitted that they would never add any feature. 

Right there, you have shunned 200k star wars fans. Right there, you have put a sour , poor P.R  move in your game.

let's move forward to development and beta. Any of you in the beta that played through it remember the bugs, the performance and total lack of end game. Bioware was dedicated to taking their "great" story telling and applying it to a mmo. The community, in a very valiant attempt tried to tell bioware that the strength of the game shouldn't  be the leveling, it should be what happens when you are done leveling.

Imagine if there was say hardly any voice overs, cut scenese , and much smaller zones while leveling. When you get to max level you choose your path, you get the rest of your companions, you get a space ship. Not entirely to this extreme, but bioware focused on teh journey leaving absolutely nothing at the end.

again, the community was aware of this, it was reported to the devs.

You see, the star wars community is different than the warcraft community. If people want warcraft they play world of warcraft. People that want star wars want a galaxy at war. They want a game where being social can be a career. They want a game where you are a "bounty hunter". Creating "you" is what's important to most star wars fans. Bioware never grasped what star wars IS, they dont graps what star wars needs to be.

The game is star wars. There is very little war between the stars. I am referring to space combat. It's a single player mini game, with no social interaction. No galaxy domination, no ship progression. It's an insult to anyone who truly appreciates star wars.

I am a very old gamer. I remember playing the original final fantasies on NES. I remember my first p.c game being quake and moving on to my first mmorpg which was EQ. I remember games being developed by passionate gamers who developed worlds that sucked you in. 

Bioware made a huge mistake ignoring the people that ultimately make them successful, the players, the customers, and the fans of star wars. We didn't want this turd, but we gave it a chance, now we have all returned to greener pastures. They can make it f2p, they can add more flashpoints, they can tinker with pvp, but ultimately the game was developed with a very SELFISH mindset and it cost them millions in stocks, investors, and ultimately reputation.

 

Good post.

 

However I'm not sure they were selfish. I mean the leads and main execs. I'd say some had a too big ego that prevented them to actually listen to the player base. And the management (BioWare one, not EA) did really bad too.

 

I remember very well even before the beta, all the great posts from people like Fodigg, DeaconX and well BioWare simply ignored all the constructive input and even dared say so on the beta forums.

 

As a player, I'm sad, really sad.

As a human I'm mad at the execs who failed so hard and managed to have all these people get fired.

  User Deleted
9/17/12 11:51:24 PM#12

Few people i know disliked the leveling and progression part of the game...that seemed to be top notch.

While i can aprpeciate a random forum-goes givng a 35 point "needs to be fixed" list i can shorten that list to two points that would have resulted in the game keeping more people longer.

Fix ilum for the pvpers, fix the pve endgame and make it entertaining.

 

Untill they get a themepark ride for the pvpers and a themepark ride for the pve'ers thats working entertaining and has replay value...this game will remain just a good short trip to (whatever level cap was/is) possibly a reroll with increased no storyline spacebaring, and a quick realization that its time to move on.

 

Yeah the overhype at launch really set the game back with the expectations it had.

 

Also...did they ever put the high end graphic settings in the game, i remember it being "meduim" on both medium and high settings...along with the inability to custom set the graphics (which i think led to ilum being such a fail)

 

TLDR?  Only problems was that endgame pvp was a laggy zerg standoff and pve was a snooze fest at endgame.  Fix those and the game is pretty solid by themepark standards.

  Fennris

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/07
Posts: 273

9/18/12 11:38:25 AM#13
On every topic there are many players with different ideas about how things should work and players with completely different perspectives on what "most players want". You won't go far "listening to the players" - as far as I'm concerned BW listened too much to players that wanted another Wow (whether they knew they were asking for that or not, many posters were).

On msg boards I could easily get a consensus right now saying swtor's pvp doesn't have enough cc, space missions are awesome, everyone should start at level 50 with max gear and VO can be the most important part of an MMO.

Many bad calls in this game that I've heard about have been "because beta tester's said so".

You couldn't get a consensus of players on many boards saying "sandbox features are worthwhile" or "down with the trinity" because most don't know what you mean and/or can't imagine such games. Letting a majority of players determine/drive a feature list is a bad idea.
  Leoghan

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 611

9/18/12 11:59:37 AM#14
Originally posted by Fennris
On every topic there are many players with different ideas about how things should work and players with completely different perspectives on what "most players want". You won't go far "listening to the players" - as far as I'm concerned BW listened too much to players that wanted another Wow (whether they knew they were asking for that or not, many posters were).

On msg boards I could easily get a consensus right now saying swtor's pvp doesn't have enough cc, space missions are awesome, everyone should start at level 50 with max gear and VO can be the most important part of an MMO.

Many bad calls in this game that I've heard about have been "because beta tester's said so".

You couldn't get a consensus of players on many boards saying "sandbox features are worthwhile" or "down with the trinity" because most don't know what you mean and/or can't imagine such games. Letting a majority of players determine/drive a feature list is a bad idea.

There is a difference between designing a game by committee (i.e. the forums) and listening to feedback in beta, especially early betas where the numbers were smaller. 

 

Erickson's ego is what led to such design blunders as the lack of creativity for PC's, lack of specie options (come on it's an SW game, that's a no brainer) and the Legacy system being the convoluted disgusting mess that it is. Erickson believed that he knew how players wanted their stories told, what they could related to and what they couldn't and despite great deals of constructive and well thought out feedback in opposition to his ideas he stuck with his "vision". I've seen what "vision" does to games, Vanguard is a good example. Erickson was clearly wrong, the state of SWTOR less than a year since launch is proof of that. 

  Deewe

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1983

 
OP  9/20/12 4:42:21 PM#15
Originally posted by Fennris
On every topic there are many players with different ideas about how things should work and players with completely different perspectives on what "most players want". You won't go far "listening to the players" - as far as I'm concerned BW listened too much to players that wanted another Wow (whether they knew they were asking for that or not, many posters were).

On msg boards I could easily get a consensus right now saying swtor's pvp doesn't have enough cc, space missions are awesome, everyone should start at level 50 with max gear and VO can be the most important part of an MMO.

Many bad calls in this game that I've heard about have been "because beta tester's said so".

You couldn't get a consensus of players on many boards saying "sandbox features are worthwhile" or "down with the trinity" because most don't know what you mean and/or can't imagine such games. Letting a majority of players determine/drive a feature list is a bad idea.

We certainly don't browse the same forums, because I've been on TOR forums since day 1 and I saw (and still seeing) the exact opposite.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2218

9/20/12 5:36:28 PM#16
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by rdrakken

Stop pretending this is an MMORPG and start treating it as an SPRG with multiplayer fuctions, go real F2P and forget this freemium/paytrap crap and put some focus into a shop with decent micro-transactions...make THAT your monitary focus and they MAY...MAY do as well as some of the real F2P games.

Well said-

If this had been KOTOR 3 and marketed as a single player game with online multiplayer (no sub/cash shop) this could have been a good game.

This. I even said after first month, it could've been game of the year, as KotOR 3.

I'm glad I can go back and finish the rest of the storylines (as a decent single rpg, without the monthly rip-off) and then leave. Maybe play it through again a few years later (I like to blow off the dust of KotOR 1-2 once in a while, after them a bit of SW:ToR will be a nice addition)

I know a few people who still plays ToR as an mmo, but for me it just didn't worked as one... when I saw their f2p matrix, limited flashpoints, no operations, etc. I just said, who cares... until the story content is full access. :)

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

9/20/12 6:01:26 PM#17
Originally posted by Fennris
On every topic there are many players with different ideas about how things should work and players with completely different perspectives on what "most players want". You won't go far "listening to the players" - as far as I'm concerned BW listened too much to players that wanted another Wow (whether they knew they were asking for that or not, many posters were).

On msg boards I could easily get a consensus right now saying swtor's pvp doesn't have enough cc, space missions are awesome, everyone should start at level 50 with max gear and VO can be the most important part of an MMO.

Many bad calls in this game that I've heard about have been "because beta tester's said so".

You couldn't get a consensus of players on many boards saying "sandbox features are worthwhile" or "down with the trinity" because most don't know what you mean and/or can't imagine such games. Letting a majority of players determine/drive a feature list is a bad idea.

This is kind of true but also doesn't really address the nature of SWTOR's epic failure status. The players cant get together about what to complain about because there is simply too much to complain about. It's a mountainous task that divides the opinions into multiple spectrums. Add in the zealots and the occasional uninvested/uninformed poster and you get mush.

If the game was better there would have been less emphasis on what was said and what wasn't by beta testers, etc. The original model would have had an integrity that could withstand a certain amount of paradigm rebellion without the devs saying anything. This game sucks ass though, so its a frenzy of opinions.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011