Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Shards

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,905,518 Users Online:0
Games:757  Posts:6,294,798
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I miss the trinity, how about you?

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
135 posts found
  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4815

9/18/12 3:06:38 AM#21

Absolutely not.

Honestly, I'm glad we (finally) get an MMO that requires some actual thought when it comes to combat. Most don't. I understand the divide, though.

The trinity system is easy. Extremely easy. It requires minimal thought, if any, and anyone can jump into it and do fine right off the bat. (WoW has proven this). Many people are comfortable with taking the most obvious path of least resistance in games.

Personally, it kind of saddens me how many people are stuck on the trinity model. Not only do they not see anything else, they refuse to believe it's even possible. This is all inspite of the model only existing in MMOs, and yet there being no real reason for it. I love how in GW2 I can jump in with any combination of classes (and I've done some of the hardest content with most class combinations), and all it takes is a quick bit of planning / coordination and amazing things start to happen. I love being able to discover the best way of tackling content, rather than having it handed to me on a silver platter and having to wait for people to magically fill the roles no one really wants to do.

MMOs have been stuck in a trinity rut for over a decade. As long as people are too unwilling to step outside their comfort zone to try something new, that won't change. I think it's about time we had something different.

  Cernan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/06
Posts: 353

9/18/12 3:07:04 AM#22

Yes and no to your question.

 

No, I don't completely miss the trinity.  I loved City of Heroes and their defender approach was an awesome alternative to a spambot healer.  Yes, you still needed tank/dps/denfender int CoH. I just wish some other game, like GW2, would have used there alternatives to strict healing.  The closet thing in GW2 is probably an Elementalist that focuses on Chills and Blinds ( D/F build which is what I'm trying to play.)  Storm Defenders and Kinetics Defenders were amazing healer alternatives in CoH teams (knock back auras, negative accuracy auras, knockdown ice slicks.)  I remember when the game came out and everyone thought you needed an Empath healer to do content.  Slowly they learned the benefits other Defenders could bring.  I feel GW2 is mostly missing this feeling.  Instead of giving an alternative to strict healing, they just sprinkled around heals on every class.  

 

Yes, I  miss the coordination.  I'm also with on you on mobs with insane health and 1 hit kills.  I fought some cave harpy that casts lava fonts that did 1.5 times my total health in damage.  We had about 15 people there and it was just a cluster fudge.  There was a telegraphed circle about 1 sec before the actual spell hit.  If you were  in the middle of the circle, you died.  You didn't have time to dodge far enough away to survive.  That's not a fun fight.  It's a boring fight.  The boss has one main attack that kills you if your hit.   The only strategy is run in  circles for 10 minutes while you slowly work down the insane amounts of hp she has.  

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5608

9/18/12 3:13:44 AM#23

The problem is there is nothing different in GW2 dungeon system than other mmorpgs, besides:

  • Not having a tank (obviously)
  • Not having a corpse lock
The game still have healers and dps. Utility is still there in all other games as well. Healing is just spread to everyone instead of being the responsibility of one person. And everyone is a lot tougher than in other games, plus you get the invulnerability dogde perk.
 
Really, the game is build around dynamic events and WvW. It's also build around the common denominator, aka everyone being dps as primary. Dungeons obviously suffer due to this, but not much once you overgear them.
  Zikari

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 78

 
OP  9/18/12 3:18:59 AM#24
Originally posted by aesperus

Absolutely not.

Honestly, I'm glad we (finally) get an MMO that requires some actual thought when it comes to combat. Most don't. I understand the divide, though.

The trinity system is easy. Extremely easy. It requires minimal thought, if any, and anyone can jump into it and do fine right off the bat. (WoW has proven this). Many people are comfortable with taking the most obvious path of least resistance in games.

Personally, it kind of saddens me how many people are stuck on the trinity model. Not only do they not see anything else, they refuse to believe it's even possible. This is all inspite of the model only existing in MMOs, and yet there being no real reason for it. I love how in GW2 I can jump in with any combination of classes (and I've done some of the hardest content with most class combinations), and all it takes is a quick bit of planning / coordination and amazing things start to happen. I love being able to discover the best way of tackling content, rather than having it handed to me on a silver platter and having to wait for people to magically fill the roles no one really wants to do.

MMOs have been stuck in a trinity rut for over a decade. As long as people are too unwilling to step outside their comfort zone to try something new, that won't change. I think it's about time we had something different.

I wouldn't say I am stuck on it and can't see anything else. I was looking forward to another system. But now after playing for a while and having a blast with Guild Wars 2 I just question if this particular change is a change for the better. There might be a better system out there then the trinity, most definitely there is, but the way dungeons in GW2 play and feel, I think this one is not. It works perfectly for PVP, and I would say on the battlefields this is btter than a trinity based approach, but in the dungeons, I just think the classic model was more fun to play with.

  User Deleted
9/18/12 3:45:05 AM#25
Two of my favorite "roles" in MMO's are tanking and healing.  So yeah, I kind of miss the trinity thing.  DPS just feels so simplistic to me.  Especially in this game where you spend most of your time just zerging around randomly.
  UtukuMoon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1109

9/18/12 3:55:10 AM#26

ArenaNet haven't removed the holy trinity of tanking damage, healing damage, and dealing damage in Guild Wars 2. They consolidated it. Everyone can tank, everyone can heal, and everyone can nuke. 

Nope,the holy trinity dispite ArenaNets claims is alive and kicking in GW2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ymgFyzbDo

  Kuinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2092

9/18/12 3:58:21 AM#27
Originally posted by Zikari

Please stay with me for a second and read my opinion before ranting solely because of the title.

 

I did read what you said, and I kinda understand you, but I wouldnt want to stick with the trinity in every game just because it's familiar and comfortable, since that's essentially what is so great about it. What I've seen and heard a lot is this "everyone for themself" which is a poor way of doing instance, there are many support abilities and better yet combos that people could do.

 

I did Ascalonian Catacombs story mode with the everyone for themself mentality, it was doable but a bit tricky at parts, and gave me a good idea of how hard explorable will be without boon rotations and no support, propably not doable. So yeah, it really needs a team effort to make it go smooth, and because people dont understand fully and are yet not so good with this new model it seems worse.

 

However trinity is better for pugs at least in the start for the very reason you mentioned, everyone kinda knows their place in the run before anyone says anything. Gw2 feels more like a game where you need team speak for even pugs because it's very hard to make effectively combos and such with random people with just chatbox.

 

Trinity is more simple thus easier, no need to coordinate anything, I dare to say that trinity is actually more "everyone for themself" since the role you have with trinity system really requires no communication, where combos and support spells do, when people tend to ignore combo possibilities and dodge roll out of your heal.

 

Will it be just a matter of getting used to it? I sure hope so, but I'm not sure if that's simply the case.

  Nitth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3403

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

9/18/12 3:58:27 AM#28

imo the trinity needs to be expanded, not consolidated.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  UtukuMoon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/11
Posts: 1109

9/18/12 4:00:42 AM#29
Originally posted by Nitth

imo the trinity needs to be expanded, not consolidated.

I agree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ymgFyzbDo

  Zikari

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 78

 
OP  9/18/12 4:12:51 AM#30
Originally posted by Sylvarii

ArenaNet haven't removed the holy trinity of tanking damage, healing damage, and dealing damage in Guild Wars 2. They consolidated it. Everyone can tank, everyone can heal, and everyone can nuke. 

Nope,the holy trinity dispite ArenaNets claims is alive and kicking in GW2.

True, but having 5 more or less independent part time healer, part time tank, part time dps -ers trying to bring a boss down while trying to synergize their abilities does make dngeon play simply more chaotic than anything else. I see less group play than in other games, as in actually playing your characters strenght to support the group.

  User Deleted
9/18/12 4:24:24 AM#31
Originally posted by Zikari

 

What’s your take on this, do you miss the trinity in the 5 player dungeons of Guild Wars 2?

No, I don't, because we still have the trinity in so many other games anytime I want to go play them: WoW, Rift, TSW, etc.

 

 

  IstrebiteI

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 272

9/18/12 4:29:46 AM#32

Dont miss tank-healer-dps segregation at all. All it does is lower the potential of groups and your skillcap. It's a flawed mechanic both mechanic-wise (as it forces you into a role instead of allowing you to find it out yourself how you can benefit your group most) and immersion-wise (its stupid how state of your health becomes a simple vessel, which has liquid being poured into by some players and drained by monsters, its even more stupid how the enemies are dumbest asses ever, attacking the least preferred target - the one that is hardest to kill but does no real damage to them).

I think GW2 is the step in right direction. Not to say they hit hte nail in the head and made THE BEST SYSTEM EVAH, but its a start. You can go on from there. But segregation into set roles of heal, tank, dps has to go.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4815

9/18/12 4:34:51 AM#33
Originally posted by Zikari
Originally posted by aesperus

Absolutely not.

Honestly, I'm glad we (finally) get an MMO that requires some actual thought when it comes to combat. Most don't. I understand the divide, though.

The trinity system is easy. Extremely easy. It requires minimal thought, if any, and anyone can jump into it and do fine right off the bat. (WoW has proven this). Many people are comfortable with taking the most obvious path of least resistance in games.

Personally, it kind of saddens me how many people are stuck on the trinity model. Not only do they not see anything else, they refuse to believe it's even possible. This is all inspite of the model only existing in MMOs, and yet there being no real reason for it. I love how in GW2 I can jump in with any combination of classes (and I've done some of the hardest content with most class combinations), and all it takes is a quick bit of planning / coordination and amazing things start to happen. I love being able to discover the best way of tackling content, rather than having it handed to me on a silver platter and having to wait for people to magically fill the roles no one really wants to do.

MMOs have been stuck in a trinity rut for over a decade. As long as people are too unwilling to step outside their comfort zone to try something new, that won't change. I think it's about time we had something different.

I wouldn't say I am stuck on it and can't see anything else. I was looking forward to another system. But now after playing for a while and having a blast with Guild Wars 2 I just question if this particular change is a change for the better. There might be a better system out there then the trinity, most definitely there is, but the way dungeons in GW2 play and feel, I think this one is not. It works perfectly for PVP, and I would say on the battlefields this is btter than a trinity based approach, but in the dungeons, I just think the classic model was more fun to play with.

I wasn't trying to say that you, specifically, were; however a lot of people are. It shows both in their playstyle and criticisms about the game. I hear you in quesitoning whether or not this is necessarily 'the best way', but I'd also suggest that (if this trend actually picks up), there won't necessarily be a 'best way' for a while. Because the trinity is a very linear way of looking at MMO mechanics, and what Anet is doing is turning that into a much broader spectrum. Such a mindset allows for a lot of different approaches, and can result in many different types of non-trinity games.

As for dungeons, what exactly bothers you about the model? In a lot of ways it makes PvE feel a lot more like PvP. There will always be a difference, but the AI of the mobs makes PvE a lot more dynamic. The chaotic nature of it does take some getting used to, but I suppose it all comes down to if you'd rather be sitting in a Que for an hour, looking for a tank / healer, or would you rather jump in instantly, but risk having some unconventional fights.

Personally, I've had some of the most fun with the least likely setups. Full thief parties, wierd mixes of necros / mesmers / engineers; all way more fun than having some overly support-heavy guardian in the front spamming regen & block. I even found it quite enjoyable (and challenging) trying to tank as a squishy dps class sometimes.

  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

9/18/12 5:02:49 AM#34

OP - it's nostalgia mainly.

Trinity system while not something bad is less complex in general, as you need to pay attention just for one thing. Green bars as healer, big boss/mobs as tank, rotation as dps. While simplicity isn't necessairly flaw, it wasn't the source of your fun. It was fitting the puzzle(heal, dps, tank) into dungeon design. So yeah I agree first clear of dungeon in trinity modle was darn satysfying. But after that, you got stuck in one old boring scheme, tank stays here, dps/healer here and off we go. It's shallow and it's BORING!

Not to mention biggest trinity flaw - blaming each other. Bad healer, bad tank, bad dps. While you can be still a bad player in GW2 it's harder to be ignorant and just put a blame on someone. You know when someone is not pulling their weight because they should do same things as you. Also this forces more cooperation and more friendliness then "L2P n00b" or "LFG XYZ dungeon, 56421+ GS , link achiev pls".

In GW2 everyone needs to pay attention to everything. You heal, buff, debuff, dps and tank mobs. To lesser degree of course than dedicated class. This requires darn good cooperation and participation in battle, rather than "I stand here and pew pew cuz I'm dps".

 

It will take time to get used to new system however, which will change encouters from death zerg into cooperate to progress.

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16806

9/18/12 5:07:25 AM#35
Originally posted by crazynanny

OP - it's nostalgia mainly.

Trinity system while not something bad is less complex in general, as you need to pay attention just for one thing. Green bars as healer, big boss/mobs as tank, rotation as dps. While simplicity isn't necessairly flaw, it wasn't the source of your fun. It was fitting the puzzle(heal, dps, tank) into dungeon design. So yeah I agree first clear of dungeon in trinity modle was darn satysfying. But after that, you got stuck in one old boring scheme, tank stays here, dps/healer here and off we go. It's shallow and it's BORING!

Not to mention biggest trinity flaw - blaming each other. Bad healer, bad tank, bad dps. While you can be still a bad player in GW2 it's harder to be ignorant and just put a blame on someone. You know when someone is not pulling their weight because they should do same things as you. Also this forces more cooperation and more friendliness then "L2P n00b" or "LFG XYZ dungeon, 56421+ GS , link achiev pls".

In GW2 everyone needs to pay attention to everything. You heal, buff, debuff, dps and tank mobs. To lesser degree of course than dedicated class. This requires darn good cooperation and participation in battle, rather than "I stand here and pew pew cuz I'm dps".

It will take time to get used to new system however, which will change encouters from death zerg into cooperate to progress.

I agree, if someone dies 20 times in a Wow dungeon they blame the healer or possibly the tank. When the same thing happen in GW2 they complain that the game is too hard.

Big improvement.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6643

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

9/18/12 5:09:59 AM#36

I wasn't a particular fan of the trinity system but now that it is not here anymore I miss it. Specially compared to whatever Arena Net has replaced it with. For example I used to play CC/Healer utility class and I cant seem to do that properly here. Either the heals/CC are too weak, too small radius or too long cooldown. So right now I dont know what kind of role my Elementalist does as the only thing he can do consistently is DPS.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6643

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

9/18/12 5:15:47 AM#37
Originally posted by crazynanny

OP - it's nostalgia mainly.

Trinity system while not something bad is less complex in general, as you need to pay attention just for one thing. Green bars as healer, big boss/mobs as tank, rotation as dps. While simplicity isn't necessairly flaw, it wasn't the source of your fun. It was fitting the puzzle(heal, dps, tank) into dungeon design. So yeah I agree first clear of dungeon in trinity modle was darn satysfying. But after that, you got stuck in one old boring scheme, tank stays here, dps/healer here and off we go. It's shallow and it's BORING!

Not to mention biggest trinity flaw - blaming each other. Bad healer, bad tank, bad dps. While you can be still a bad player in GW2 it's harder to be ignorant and just put a blame on someone. You know when someone is not pulling their weight because they should do same things as you. Also this forces more cooperation and more friendliness then "L2P n00b" or "LFG XYZ dungeon, 56421+ GS , link achiev pls".

In GW2 everyone needs to pay attention to everything. You heal, buff, debuff, dps and tank mobs. To lesser degree of course than dedicated class. This requires darn good cooperation and participation in battle, rather than "I stand here and pew pew cuz I'm dps".

 

It will take time to get used to new system however, which will change encouters from death zerg into cooperate to progress.

I hear this alot, that the trinity system is simplistic and/or boring but it really depends on what level of difficulty you are doing. Properly managing aggro, DPS, healing and at the same time CC adds can be quite a challenge depending on what kind of content you are going.

In GW 2 you cant do anything, but DPS, consistently. You cant really manage aggro because there are no taunts, you cant heal consistently nor can you CC concistently. Basically everyone can do a little bit of everything which, for me, has just resulted in one-dimensional combat where everyone has, more or less, the same role as everyone else. I dont see the improvment here.

  Tardcore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/09
Posts: 2370

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to post."

9/18/12 5:17:58 AM#38
Originally posted by Yamota

I wasn't a particular fan of the trinity system but now that it is not here anymore I miss it. Specially compared to whatever Arena Net has replaced it with. For example I used to play CC/Healer utility class and I cant seem to do that properly here. Either the heals/CC are too weak, too small radius or too long cooldown. So right now I dont know what kind of role my Elementalist does as the only thing he can do consistently is DPS.

Well dps AND run around like a spastic with ants in his pants.

"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16806

9/18/12 5:29:40 AM#39
Originally posted by Yamota

I hear this alot, that the trinity system is simplistic and/or boring but it really depends on what level of difficulty you are doing. Properly managing aggro, DPS, healing and at the same time CC adds can be quite a challenge depending on what kind of content you are going.

In GW 2 you cant do anything, but DPS, consistently. You cant really manage aggro because there are no taunts, you cant heal consistently nor can you CC concistently. Basically everyone can do a little bit of everything which, for me, has just resulted in one-dimensional combat where everyone has, more or less, the same role as everyone else. I dont see the improvment here.

Instead of tanking you need to kite if you plan to get anywhere in a dungeon.  And preferably you leave over to the next player after a short while.

It actually do take a lot of teamwork, even if some dungeonbosses are really boring and can be killed by just DPSing them.

But this is dungeons, the open world is not the same. Then again, 60 mixed trinity players on a single box with no coordination would be even more one dimensional.

  Zikari

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 78

 
OP  9/18/12 5:37:37 AM#40
Originally posted by aesperus

As for dungeons, what exactly bothers you about the model? In a lot of ways it makes PvE feel a lot more like PvP. There will always be a difference, but the AI of the mobs makes PvE a lot more dynamic. The chaotic nature of it does take some getting used to, but I suppose it all comes down to if you'd rather be sitting in a Que for an hour, looking for a tank / healer, or would you rather jump in instantly, but risk having some unconventional fights.

That summary really nails it, it makes PvE feel more like PvP! I kind of liked the classic PvE concept of the encounters being more or less predictable, not necessaryly easy, but predictable. Way to go is, you go in, whatch what the boss is doing, check what your group can do, then think about what each of your players need to do in order to win. Then you execute your plan and either win, or wipe and adjust the tactic.

The way you do this didn't very much differ wheter it is a 5 man dungeon or a 10, 25, 40 man raid. I normally tend to take the lead and explaining encounters and mechanics, especially in PUG's (kind of second nature as long time tank/healer). In Trinity games, the people coming in as Healer, Tank or DPS, are aware of their role and what is expected to them. In GW2 I mostly don't even know where to start, Most people coming in the dungeons with the Zerg-it-down mindset from the dynamic events. I have no clue what the other 4 guys are capable off and what they are skilled and geared for.

So besides giving general comments like, don't melee, whatch out for the rockets, clear the flowers first, the adds explode stay away from them, there is not much planning I can do. While in trinity games I always have the feeling of solving a little puzzle to bring down a boss by having the team push the right button at the right moment while standing at the right spot, in GW2 it feels like I can't see the puzzle pieces and just throw them at the table and hope they will fit after some tries. I miss the feeling of being in control of what is happening. This for me at least is the essence of PvE, and again, as long as it is controllable it can be very tightly tuned and require perfection in execution.

Now writing this down and thinking about it, maybe it's not the lack of trinity per se, but the lack of insight into most profession mechanics by all of the team. I miss the discussions I had in TSW withing PUGS about what we can do, players where way more engaging in actually coming up with a tactic and we tried multipe setups for an encounter until it worked (2 tanks, additional off-heal, healtank or all dps on the kite). In GW2 most PUGS will not really discuss encounters, just run in and die then try again, if I make suggestions, most will do what I say, If I am very lucky with even verifying by typing a simple 'k' in group chat.

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search