Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?

 

Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.

Highlighted the important part. 

so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.

Sure you could compete with them. You wouldn't perform any better than someone jumping into WvWvW though with full blues compared to someone with full level 80 exotics. Same with explorable dungeons, you'd be licking the floor most fights.

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?

 

Umm.. then you never played WoW back when gear mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.

Highlighted the important part. 

Regardless. It still takes a while to get the full set. Much longer than a few weeks of grinding. Then the next tier comes out and you're at it again. So honestly I'm missing the fact that this game is any longer considering once you get that full set, you're done and you don't have to worry about grinding again since there won't be another tier of gear until maybe an expansion comes out.

Originally posted by EricDanie

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

My guess is because there is no gear grind to become and/or remain competitive. It is there for vanity (in the end it's just a game, even stats are for vanity), it's just not mandatory and it's not padded with weekly/daily timers either.

Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?

 

Umm.. then you never played WoW back when gear mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.

Highlighted the important part. 

Regardless. It still takes a while to get the full set. Much longer than a few weeks of grinding. Then the next tier comes out and you're at it again. So honestly I'm missing the fact that this game is any longer considering once you get that full set, you're done and you don't have to worry about grinding again since there won't be another tier of gear until maybe an expansion comes out.

So the positive of GW2 > games like WoW isn't the fact that there is no treadmill, there obviously is, but that it is on a lower speed than WoWs?  7-10 months (wow patches) vs 1 yr (GW expansions). Hmm. I guess.

longevity comes from no-sub model. People pick it up for a week or two, take a long break, come back few months later for few weeks again, etc.

I appreciate the OP's opinion, and I certainly can't predict the future... but I can say that right now the following things are true for me.

I am level 51 on my main.

I have 95 hours logged into my main character.

I have 4 other characters between levels 5 and 6 that i have not played since the first or second day, and I plan on playing all of them eventually.

I have seen 25% of the world.

I have barely dabbled with crafting.

I have done a couple hours of WvWvW and can't wait to get into that as my end game.

I have not done any SPvP yet.

I have not run any dungeons yet in any of their modes.

I love the hand painted look and feel of the world.

I love the fluff and attention to detail, and all of the little details that pop up daily for me.

I love the design and lore.

I love the skill/trait system and the combat and combos.

I love the players I have met and socialized with, and am currently in the process (after lots of evaluation on my part) of joining a fantastic bunch of players in a guild.

I am more juiced about this game now than I was at any point in time prior to this. And that has consistantly been the case on a daily basis so far.

My entire opinion may change at some point in time, like I said I can not perdict the future. I do not think the game is flawless, I run into bugs once in a while but they have been very few and far in between thus far for me.

At only 95 hours in I still have an enormous amount of content ahead of me, and WvWvW is my ideal end game as Camelot held the best end game for me ever, and I couldn't care less about any realm rank system (although i would not be against this either and I recognize that some folks want this so they can enhoy WvW)

I can easily see this lasting a long time for me. It has what it takes for me, as did a few other mmorpgs throughout time... UO, EQ1, AC1, DAoC. This were the ones I played for years, and GW2 is giving me those same feelings now.

So, for me, it has a high chance of longevity. Minus any massive changes that go against what is there right now.

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by EricDanie

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

My guess is because there is no gear grind to become and/or remain competitive. It is there for vanity (in the end it's just a game, even stats are for vanity), it's just not mandatory and it's not padded with weekly/daily timers either.

Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.

Hmmmm- See I think you are trying to make something Black or White that is actually shades of grey.

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by EricDanie

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

My guess is because there is no gear grind to become and/or remain competitive. It is there for vanity (in the end it's just a game, even stats are for vanity), it's just not mandatory and it's not padded with weekly/daily timers either.

Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.

Hmmmm- See I think you are trying to make something Black or White that is actually shades of grey.

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

 

Might I suggest frozen bubble! Got me through many boring classes in highschool.

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?

 

Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.

Highlighted the important part. 

so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.

Sure you could compete with them. You wouldn't perform any better than someone jumping into WvWvW though with full blues compared to someone with full level 80 exotics. Same with explorable dungeons, you'd be licking the floor most fights.

ill say this I haven't played wow in years but when I did if I had entry level PVP gear i would have 0 chance against anyone with highest set of gear.. Right now my level 31 ele does damn good in WvW and depending on build can be damn useful in both damage and support. Just look at the gear stat difference between entry level 80 gear in GW2 vs exotics then very top gear in wow vs entry level gear...

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?

 

Umm.. then you never played WoW back when gear mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.

Highlighted the important part. 

Regardless. It still takes a while to get the full set. Much longer than a few weeks of grinding. Then the next tier comes out and you're at it again. So honestly I'm missing the fact that this game is any longer considering once you get that full set, you're done and you don't have to worry about grinding again since there won't be another tier of gear until maybe an expansion comes out.

So the positive of GW2 > games like WoW isn't the fact that there is no treadmill, there obviously is, but that it is on a lower speed than WoWs?  7-10 months (wow patches) vs 1 yr (GW expansions). Hmm. I guess.

And you know for a fact that GW expansion will come out in a year? I'm sorry, but can you provide evidence for this? Maybe a quote from Anet?

Either way, GW2 basically put in this feature of exotics and legendaries so that people would stop complaining so much about longevity. So honestly, it's a good feature. Is it a treadmill thou? No, because if an expansion comes out you don't need the epics to get to the next tier of gear do you? Nor do you need it for anything end game. Does it assist in beating explorer modes or beating players without it in WvW? sure, but not to the point that it's necessary. Is it sufficient enough to give you a slight advantage? Yes, but unlike WoW, you can live without it and it requires a tad bit more skill based over gear based.

Example would be that in GW2, going from yellow to exotic might help you live one more attack from a mob, but it can't make fights trivial. In WoW, once you get better gear as a tank or a healer or a dps, you basically blow through everything like it doesn't matter anymore whether or not you know anything about damage mitigation or strategies. That and in PvP, once you get top end gear, it's almost impossible for entry level players to touch you as opposed to in GW2. The fact that sPvP is normalized basically negates anyone bitching about gear at all since you are given whatever you want there.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?

 

Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.

Highlighted the important part. 

so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.

Sure you could compete with them. You wouldn't perform any better than someone jumping into WvWvW though with full blues compared to someone with full level 80 exotics. Same with explorable dungeons, you'd be licking the floor most fights.

ill say this I haven't played wow in years but when I did if I had entry level PVP gear i would have 0 chance against anyone on full gladiator gear.. Right now my level 31 ele does damn good in WvW and depending on build can be damn useful in both damage and support. Just look at the gear stat difference between entry level 80 gear in GW2 vs exotics then very top gear in wow vs entry level gear...

Exotics are a 13 percent increase over Rares, and Rares even more than that over blues. I'm sure one of your videos has the exact figures. Either way, gear still plays a large role in GW2.   Your 31 ele doing "damn good" in WvWvW is a perception issue. I'm sure you stand on top of towers and rain down your terrible damage dealing AoE like the best of them, but I'm also sure my warrior would tear you apart in seconds.

Originally posted by Jimmydean

ill say this I haven't played wow in years but when I did if I had entry level PVP gear i would have 0 chance against anyone on full gladiator gear.. Right now my level 31 ele does damn good in WvW and depending on build can be damn useful in both damage and support. Just look at the gear stat difference between entry level 80 gear in GW2 vs exotics then very top gear in wow vs entry level gear...

Exotics are a 13 percent increase over Rares, and Rares even more than that over blues. I'm sure one of your videos has the exact figures. Either way, gear still plays a large role in GW2.   Your 31 ele doing "damn good" in WvWvW is a perception issue. I'm sure you stand on top of towers and rain down your terrible damage dealing AoE like the best of them, but I'm also sure my warrior would tear you apart in seconds.

still not seing how I can be useful in wow pvp.. unless they REALLY toned down gear from what it was.. and if all GW2 gear grind IS the same as wow according to you then why are people bitching over longevity and having nothing to strive for or make them feel more powerfull?

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

i dont think you can relate to people that play mmos for other reasons than having nicer gear

its not a matter of disliking the loots, the issue is enjoying the game beyond the loot

using myself as an example,

Everquests 3rd expansion was Luclin, it was an expansion i didnt like except for the new system of AA

so i spent the full year running pickup dungeon groups in Kunark dungeons

- there was no gear to be had, I already had it or didnt want it

- i was already level 60, there were no levels for me to increase

- the only thing i got for character progression was coin, gems, and AA points

i had alot of fun running pickup groups in non-instanced kunark dungeons during that year (2002)

Originally posted by MosesZD

snip

5 and 6 aren't my cup o' tea. People who are playing for this and enjoying it will have a good time in GW2

7. Are you really going to reroll to see all of the branches in the story? If you are, I am impressed at your ability to redo 97% of the game content to see 3%

8. 1 year? questionable, imo. If it's the same as above, then I say 1 Month

 

This is a post about longevity, not about how fun it is to level in GW2. Once you reach the end, and you will reach the end, most people will get bored and leave. Some will come back for the expansions

 

Once again, you can only speak for yourself.   I will say the current evidence points to your wishful thinking rather than actual behaviors of the game's population.  

 

How it will play out in the long-run...   We will see.  

I don't want this game to fail at all. I dont mean to come off that way. I think there is a lot of good about GW2. I complain because I wanted it to be more than it is. It's my own fault. If other people are having fun, I don't mean to take that away from them. 

Honestly, I am just complaining about it not being exactly what I had hoped for. I will still log in occasionally, but I will treat it like I treat Battlefield 3

Edit: I will add this though. Even though the game wasn't what I hoped it would be, I do believe that a large amount of other people either already do agree, or will agree given some more play time. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Like you said, we'll see in time. 

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

i dont think you can relate to people that play mmos for other reasons than having nicer gear

its not a matter of disliking the loots, the issue is enjoying the game beyond the loot

 

using myself as an example,

 

Everquests 3rd expansion was Luclin, it was an expansion i didnt like except for the new system of AA

 

so i spent the full year running pickup dungeon groups in Kunark dungeons

- there was no gear to be had, I already had it or didnt want it

- i was already level 60, there were no levels for me to increase

- the only thing i got for character progression was coin, gems, and AA points

 

i had alot of fun running pickup groups in non-instanced kunark dungeons during that year (2002)

Yes I fully agree with you. But I felt that poster was trivializing the importance of gear as an element needed for an RPG . Gear should never be the end all or the game becomes Diablo (which is fun, but...)but its fun to discover treasure and gain more powerful items.

Its a balancing act.

I personally hate end game "gear grind" but understand its importance for a sect of players and to an overall games longevity (with present game mechanics)-  I do not want a gear centric game at all. I prefer crafted gear being the best and degrading over time. This provides an interdependance and a vibrant economy...But that is a whole 'nother discussion =P

***I fully relate to people who do not want a gear grnd and find something else in these games- But we all think gear and treasure is fun. This IS a part of the "everything else" until it becomes the "center"

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Yes I fully agree with you. But I felt that poster was trivializing the importance of gear as an element needed for an RPG . Gear should never be the end all or the game becomes Diablo (which is fun, but...)but its fun to discover treasure and gain more powerful items.

Its a balancing act.

I personally hate end game "gear grind" but understand its importance for a sect of players and to an overall games longevity (with present game mechanics)-  I do not want a gear centric game at all. I prefer crafted gear being the best and degrading over time. This provides an interdependance and a vibrant economy...But that is a whole 'nother discussion =P

gear is fun too;  thanks for elaborating

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Jimmydean

ill say this I haven't played wow in years but when I did if I had entry level PVP gear i would have 0 chance against anyone on full gladiator gear.. Right now my level 31 ele does damn good in WvW and depending on build can be damn useful in both damage and support. Just look at the gear stat difference between entry level 80 gear in GW2 vs exotics then very top gear in wow vs entry level gear...

Exotics are a 13 percent increase over Rares, and Rares even more than that over blues. I'm sure one of your videos has the exact figures. Either way, gear still plays a large role in GW2.   Your 31 ele doing "damn good" in WvWvW is a perception issue. I'm sure you stand on top of towers and rain down your terrible damage dealing AoE like the best of them, but I'm also sure my warrior would tear you apart in seconds.

still not seing how I can be useful in wow pvp.. unless they REALLY toned down gear from what it was.. and if all GW2 gear grind IS the same as wow according to you then why are people bitching over longevity and having nothing to strive for or make them feel more powerfull?

Because the case is different from one person to another. One says he completed the game in no time, got all epics, did all explorable modes (call BS on this because they take a long time and some are bugged), exc. exc. and that the game is too short. Next person says the game takes too much time and its cattered around time > skill. Another says exotics are pointless and gear grind is optional, while another says that exotics matter... its never going to change. Noone can make up their mind on complaints because there is at least 1 person out there that feels the opposite and that the opposite is making the game worse.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by EricDanie

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.

I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...

But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,

GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.

This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.

No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.

I am happy.

curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO? 

My guess is because there is no gear grind to become and/or remain competitive. It is there for vanity (in the end it's just a game, even stats are for vanity), it's just not mandatory and it's not padded with weekly/daily timers either.

Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.

Hmmmm- See I think you are trying to make something Black or White that is actually shades of grey.

So if you dont like 'teh lewtz' why play a game with any levels, progression or anything at all? Why not play a game where there is no loot at all and everyone is 100% the same at all times.

People like 'teh lootz' and treasure, and uniquness and being recognized for good play, etc...Most people, in fact. I enjoy finding better weapons and armor (or crafting them) which is why I play these games. If I wasnt worried at all about progressing my gear I would p-lay one of the hundreds of games that require no gear and hell, have no persistance at all.

 

And that's fine. Games like WoW/LotRO/SWTOR, they all orient around the gear treadmill. Generally, how you progress in those games is by acquisition of better gear. You run dungeons to get dungeon gear, which makes it possible for you to do Beginner Raid, which gives you Rank1 gear which means you can now do Intermediate Raid. Same for the pvp in those games.

GW2 is NOT that game. It is a continuance of the philosophy they established in GW1. Whether it was in PVE or PVP, the gear was the same level. The progression became how much better YOU got at your character. Yes, the gear treadmill games DO require some level of player skill. However, the focus was on the GEAR. The GW franchise is about YOU progressing. 

"But that's not really progression" I hear people say. From your perspective, it's not. However, as much as 'you' are baffled by this, the rest of 'us' are almost equally baffled by the gear treadmill. "What do you do once you have the best gear?" we ask.

"Now? Now we PLAY THE GAME"....

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?

 

Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.

Highlighted the important part. 

so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.

Sure you could compete with them. You wouldn't perform any better than someone jumping into WvWvW though with full blues compared to someone with full level 80 exotics. Same with explorable dungeons, you'd be licking the floor most fights.

ill say this I haven't played wow in years but when I did if I had entry level PVP gear i would have 0 chance against anyone on full gladiator gear.. Right now my level 31 ele does damn good in WvW and depending on build can be damn useful in both damage and support. Just look at the gear stat difference between entry level 80 gear in GW2 vs exotics then very top gear in wow vs entry level gear...

Exotics are a 13 percent increase over Rares, and Rares even more than that over blues. I'm sure one of your videos has the exact figures. Either way, gear still plays a large role in GW2.   Your 31 ele doing "damn good" in WvWvW is a perception issue. I'm sure you stand on top of towers and rain down your terrible damage dealing AoE like the best of them, but I'm also sure my warrior would tear you apart in seconds.

If you could get to him. If he's a better player, he's probably going to win. If YOU'RE a better player, you're going to win. NEITHER of you is going to coast by or get pwned because of your gear.

Originally posted by cahenderson

"But that's not really progression" I hear people say. From your perspective, it's not. However, as much as 'you' are baffled by this, the rest of 'us' are almost equally baffled by the gear treadmill. "What do you do once you have the best gear?" we ask.

"Now? Now we PLAY THE GAME"....

I don't wanna sound like I'm ragging on WoW, but that part always confused me. If you only start playing the game AFTER you get all that loot, then what the hell were we doing for the past 90 levels?!