Originally posted by JosephJR

what about EvE,I playing since 2005. sometimes 3-6 months  paying 3 accounts, i had ingame money(isk) but newer  use plex for pay

I don't play EVE, but a buddy of mine does, and when f2p comes up in conversations, he used to say, EVE is the most honest f2p game :) because of plex. I dunno, how much grind it needs, but he has 2 accounts, and didn't payed a cent in the last 12-14 month - or at least he states. And EVE doesn't have any restrictions which other f2p games have, you get the full game with plex too (since it's a subscription-based game officially...)

The biggest issue for me was price. I live in Europe, so as many of you know, the good old 1:1 exchange rate (i.e. 1 US dollar = 1 euro) was applied here. What this means that people in Europe get absolutely the same thing, but for about 25% higher price. Well, I decided I would pass, not to mention that the price they want for a lifetime subscription is simply outrageous. I mean, I have to spend 250 euros to get lifetime subscription, which equals the box price, along with slightly more than 13 months of subscription.

Just in comparison, when I pre-oridered a lifetime subscription of LOTRO five years ago, it cost me $100, box price included (and about 6 months of subscription fees). Not only there was no regional price discrimination (i.e. different prices depending where you live), but the extra price was half a year of subscriptions, which I think is fair. I'm sorry, but either Funcom or their distributor, EA, decided to be too greedy. Well, it didn't work.

It's a big shame, in the end, because the game was truly something new. Yes, combat is nothing special, and all characters kind of have the same physique, but this time Funcom at least tried to do something different, not spill out the next fantasy MMO. I admit I don't have much experience with it, but I liked the atmosphere, the modern setting, and the investigation missions. However, considering the price, it wasn't just worth it. Nowadays, the MMO demographic includes a more mature audience, which means people don't have enough time to play regularly, hence it is increasingly difficult to justify an expensive monthly subscription (and 15 euros/month is steep; I doubt many in the US would pay $18-19/month either). So there you have it, an interesting game design, but dismal business decisions.

You know, when SWTOR came out, I hoped Bioware wouldn't get into too much trouble, so they could continue making single-player games. However, it seems there wasn't much to hope for, especially after Mass Effect 3. I hope it is not the same with Funcom, because I so much wanted to see Dreamfall Chapters ... In another life, maybe.

Originally posted by Opapanax

Originally posted by thark

I can't see anywhere in this article that they have made it clear that they will go free to play..They say they have the tools to do it..Or did I miss something ?

Infact they even mention that TSW is now profitable after all the cost reductions ;)

 

If you're really not seeing it and aren't just being a blind fan at this time; the kicker in the article is that this subscription model game with optional lifetime offer is discussing the possible implementations of a F2P model within the first 2-3 months of release..

No, they aren't coming out and stating..

"Hey we'll be going Free-to-play in another 6-8 months be warned.."

But at this point they really don't need to..

If they were absolutely and convicingly confident in their current monthly model then the question would of been moot to them and not even worth discussing. They would've denied they even had a model set up that was free-to-play. That is not the case here, we already know about the content delays, layoffs and the current insider trading issue of a former CEO.

The writting is on the wall unfortunately and as a fan of the game I can't help but feel that The Secret World is on the same course as another game that is currently in a transitional state; Star Wars: The Old Republic. I don't think it's because these two games are heavy on story that they have had lesser than steller profits since their releases, they are very different titles and there are more things that seperate them than make them alike.

However, us as consumers can not stand to be this shallow on the facts in our faces. We might not know all of them or which ones are of worthy concern, but as constant consumers of these products we should by now have an educated enough view of things to be able to tell when something positive or negative has validity..

 Well..If I'm recalling correctly they have talked about this before this article and even before release. You are acting like it is somehow shameful for them to admit they will go free to play or demo their game if you prefer..

If they truly are going Free to play ..Wich even I agree they eventually will, why not just say so ?

A game as expensive as TSW or SWTOR has to pull money from some source, and the best thing to do that is having a subscription , Free to play means they have alot more players testing the game with ease , but it also means many players has to buy from their online store othervise they will get very little revenue. And an online store is not the same secure and stable income as a subscription plan where they can calculate with ease how much money they will get each month give/take drop offs and new subscribers.

So..If the game actually IS making a profit, I see no reason what so ever for them to go free to play right now. Unless their calculations signal that they will make even more money by going free to play.

---

Originally posted by thark
I can't see anywhere in this article that they have made it clear that they will go free to play..They say they have the tools to do it..Or did I miss something ?

Infact they even mention that TSW is now profitable after all the cost reductions ;)

 

---

Exactly. People are reading to much into this. Basicly if they want to then can.

I got a laugh out of them saying aoc going free to play was a sucess!!  I kind of though it really did not help it.  OH well waiting to see what happens.

Originally posted by marz.at.play

That said we definitely have the tools to turn The Secret World into a free-to-play game - or even hybrid - should we decide to do that somewhere down the line. We did that with Age of Conan with significant success.

 

No you didn't AoC crashed and burned with your F2P model. Too many restrictions, too expensive item shop. You don't know how to do F2P properly. AoC is your proof so why try to cover our eyes and lie.

Lol,take it personally why don'y ya,it's not like you will be playing it.

Originally posted by Kenze
F2P will not help TSW in the long run. Sure, they would  have a 3 or 4 month bump just from curious people but they would soon come to the conclusion most of those 200k buyers did. They need to look very hard in to some key combat system retooling before they think of F2P.

 So you are suggesting that an AAA title can't match themselves against other Free to play titles or what. Try comparing this game to Runes of magic for example  a game created with free to play from the getgo, sure it has been out for very long so it has alot of content but the overall quality if you compare the 2 is ..well almost black and white.

And well there is NOTHING wrong with the combat in TSW, it's not the combat of a singleplayer action title but it's fine ..

Always sad to see such terrible news for any MMORPG - extra fury over the people on top getting rich while the company lays off their work force.

If guilty, hopefully pays the price and and maybe stock re-payment to company will help keep TSW from shutting down.

Originally posted by JosephJR

Originally posted by Zeus.CM
P2P cannot survive anymore. WoW wil be the last one.

 

what about EvE,I playing since 2005. sometimes 3-6 months  paying 3 accounts, i had ingame money(isk) but newer  use plex for pay

If I  like game i ll spend my money for paying sub.

Curently ,I  playing in same time TSW & EvE with 2 account, i dont care for b2p or F2P mmorpg's.

TSW is great game but Funcom is very bad company ,it is sad

Agreed. If a game is good enough people will be willing to pay a sub.

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Opapanax

Originally posted by thark

I can't see anywhere in this article that they have made it clear that they will go free to play..They say they have the tools to do it..Or did I miss something ?

Infact they even mention that TSW is now profitable after all the cost reductions ;)

 

If you're really not seeing it and aren't just being a blind fan at this time; the kicker in the article is that this subscription model game with optional lifetime offer is discussing the possible implementations of a F2P model within the first 2-3 months of release..

No, they aren't coming out and stating..

"Hey we'll be going Free-to-play in another 6-8 months be warned.."

But at this point they really don't need to..

If they were absolutely and convicingly confident in their current monthly model then the question would of been moot to them and not even worth discussing. They would've denied they even had a model set up that was free-to-play. That is not the case here, we already know about the content delays, layoffs and the current insider trading issue of a former CEO.

The writting is on the wall unfortunately and as a fan of the game I can't help but feel that The Secret World is on the same course as another game that is currently in a transitional state; Star Wars: The Old Republic. I don't think it's because these two games are heavy on story that they have had lesser than steller profits since their releases, they are very different titles and there are more things that seperate them than make them alike.

However, us as consumers can not stand to be this shallow on the facts in our faces. We might not know all of them or which ones are of worthy concern, but as constant consumers of these products we should by now have an educated enough view of things to be able to tell when something positive or negative has validity..

 Well..If I'm recalling correctly they have talked about this before this article and even before release. You are acting like it is somehow shameful for them to admit they will go free to play or demo their game if you prefer..

If they truly are going Free to play ..Wich even I agree they eventually will, why not just say so ?

A game as expensive as TSW or SWTOR has to pull money from some source, and the best thing to do that is having a subscription , Free to play means they have alot more players testing the game with ease , but it also means many players has to buy from their online store othervise they will get very little revenue. And an online store is not the same secure and stable income as a subscription plan where they can calculate with ease how much money they will get each month give/take drop offs and new subscribers.

So..If the game actually IS making a profit, I see no reason what so ever for them to go free to play right now. Unless their calculations signal that they will make even more money by going free to play.

 

If you don't see anything wrong with a company selling a $200 dollar lifetime subscription and then commenting how they are ready to go F2P when it's obviously, and I mean obviously on the horizon I don't know what to tell you..

I'm a great fan of the game and if my post seemed to be a bit disappointed then you've gotten my point somewhat. I still believe in the P2P model it's just unfortunate to see a game (One that I thought could be successful as P2P) come up short. At this point it's not about an 'IF' but more of a 'When'.

Of course this is my opinion but based on the recent transition of SWTOR I can easily see TSW taking this route. It won't be recieved well we know tihs, but the ones that are going to be most upset are the people who want to debate them not actually saying "they are going F2P"..

Also going F2P is not making your game into a Demo, they've had several weekends for folks to try out the game..

Originally posted by Opapanax

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Opapanax

Originally posted by thark

I can't see anywhere in this article that they have made it clear that they will go free to play..They say they have the tools to do it..Or did I miss something ?

Infact they even mention that TSW is now profitable after all the cost reductions ;)

 

If you're really not seeing it and aren't just being a blind fan at this time; the kicker in the article is that this subscription model game with optional lifetime offer is discussing the possible implementations of a F2P model within the first 2-3 months of release..

No, they aren't coming out and stating..

"Hey we'll be going Free-to-play in another 6-8 months be warned.."

But at this point they really don't need to..

If they were absolutely and convicingly confident in their current monthly model then the question would of been moot to them and not even worth discussing. They would've denied they even had a model set up that was free-to-play. That is not the case here, we already know about the content delays, layoffs and the current insider trading issue of a former CEO.

The writting is on the wall unfortunately and as a fan of the game I can't help but feel that The Secret World is on the same course as another game that is currently in a transitional state; Star Wars: The Old Republic. I don't think it's because these two games are heavy on story that they have had lesser than steller profits since their releases, they are very different titles and there are more things that seperate them than make them alike.

However, us as consumers can not stand to be this shallow on the facts in our faces. We might not know all of them or which ones are of worthy concern, but as constant consumers of these products we should by now have an educated enough view of things to be able to tell when something positive or negative has validity..

 Well..If I'm recalling correctly they have talked about this before this article and even before release. You are acting like it is somehow shameful for them to admit they will go free to play or demo their game if you prefer..

If they truly are going Free to play ..Wich even I agree they eventually will, why not just say so ?

A game as expensive as TSW or SWTOR has to pull money from some source, and the best thing to do that is having a subscription , Free to play means they have alot more players testing the game with ease , but it also means many players has to buy from their online store othervise they will get very little revenue. And an online store is not the same secure and stable income as a subscription plan where they can calculate with ease how much money they will get each month give/take drop offs and new subscribers.

So..If the game actually IS making a profit, I see no reason what so ever for them to go free to play right now. Unless their calculations signal that they will make even more money by going free to play.

 

If you don't see anything wrong with a company selling a $200 dollar lifetime subscription and then commenting how they are ready to go F2P when it's obviously, and I mean obviously on the horizon I don't know what to tell you..

I'm a great fan of the game and if my post seemed to be a bit disappointed then you've gotten my point somewhat. I still believe in the P2P model it's just unfortunate to see a game (One that I thought could be successful as P2P) come up short. At this point it's not about an 'IF' but more of a 'When'.

Of course this is my opinion but based on the recent transition of SWTOR I can easily see TSW taking this route. It won't be recieved well we know tihs, but the ones that are going to be most upset are the people who want to debate them not actually saying "they are going F2P"..

Also going F2P is not making your game into a Demo, they've had several weekends for folks to try out the game..

 Free to Play is a demo of sorts, it's just another type of demo

 They expect people to pay If they like the game, Free to play is just a way to ease the entry barrier. 

 Well you can endure not paying a dime in most of these games, but it will cost you some frustration thats for sure. Also those that endure by not paying is accounted for in the way of others, there is always some that pays for others that don't. Thats how it works , or how it should work.

Free to play is a myth at best, there is no such thing as "Free" in this world. Funcom made this game to make money and if it wont give any profit , it will close down "free to play" or othervise..

I think ..best of two worlds is the best solution, much like DDO and LOTRO , a hybrid model, where you can choose a subription plan or pay via "store" if you like.

Originally posted by thark

Originally posted by Kenze
F2P will not help TSW in the long run. Sure, they would  have a 3 or 4 month bump just from curious people but they would soon come to the conclusion most of those 200k buyers did. They need to look very hard in to some key combat system retooling before they think of F2P.

 So you are suggesting that an AAA title can't match themselves against other Free to play titles or what. Try comparing this game to Runes of magic for example  a game created with free to play from the getgo, sure it has been out for very long so it has alot of content but the overall quality if you compare the 2 is ..well almost black and white.

And well there is NOTHING wrong with the combat in TSW, it's not the combat of a singleplayer action title but it's fine ..

 

C'mon. Who are you trying to fool.  

The combat animations are absolutely awful.  It is shocking they even shipped the game with those.

Even with the slight improvement recently they still look like crap.

Oops. He was talking about combat in general, not just animations.  Disregard my comment.

It's funny, in a sad sense, how the majority of these discussions all reflect the same thing.  I hate stereotyping, but I think it's pretty easy to break down the folks on the varying sides of these discussions into similar groups.  It's not an everybody's the same on one side and everybody's the same on the other side - no, it's not that far reaching a stereotype.

It's more like there are various groups on either sides - there are alliances, if you will.  Various factions that although they may not completely agree with each other - they either agree with each other enough or disagree with the other side more than enough; for them to have ended up on the particular sides that they are.

Discussions about TSW are fertile grounds for this particular forum battle to take place.  In a curious sense, one could even say that it goes beyond just the X vs. Y battles and introduces the Z element - as some of those that one might have expected to be supportive, have broken off...splintered off as another fraction.  While Z does not agree with Y, they disagree enough with X, that boom - we've got the Mayan Apocalypse!  Okay, that's a little melodramatic and would have been better stated on Saturday afternoon as we waited for SyFy's latest Saturday night film...lol...but if you step back, you can see it.

While TSW is not perfect (no game is - different games will be better for different folks, everybody has their preferences - but nothing's perfect)... it's amazing how much discussion about TSW goes on that soon has nothing to do with TSW at all.  It's a magnet for the debates...the poster child for the divide.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

It's funny, in a sad sense, how the majority of these discussions all reflect the same thing.  I hate stereotyping, but I think it's pretty easy to break down the folks on the varying sides of these discussions into similar groups.  It's not an everybody's the same on one side and everybody's the same on the other side - no, it's not that far reaching a stereotype.

It's more like there are various groups on either sides - there are alliances, if you will.  Various factions that although they may not completely agree with each other - they either agree with each other enough or disagree with the other side more than enough; for them to have ended up on the particular sides that they are.

Discussions about TSW are fertile grounds for this particular forum battle to take place.  In a curious sense, one could even say that it goes beyond just the X vs. Y battles and introduces the Z element - as some of those that one might have expected to be supportive, have broken off...splintered off as another fraction.  While Z does not agree with Y, they disagree enough with X, that boom - we've got the Mayan Apocalypse!  Okay, that's a little melodramatic and would have been better stated on Saturday afternoon as we waited for SyFy's latest Saturday night film...lol...but if you step back, you can see it.

While TSW is not perfect (no game is - different games will be better for different folks, everybody has their preferences - but nothing's perfect)... it's amazing how much discussion about TSW goes on that soon has nothing to do with TSW at all.  It's a magnet for the debates...the poster child for the divide.

oh please.. TSW isnt that much on peoples mind. This site is really the only gaming site i see ANY discussion about it on and it has died down a lot lately.

Originally posted by Kenze

Originally posted by VirusDancer

It's funny, in a sad sense, how the majority of these discussions all reflect the same thing.  I hate stereotyping, but I think it's pretty easy to break down the folks on the varying sides of these discussions into similar groups.  It's not an everybody's the same on one side and everybody's the same on the other side - no, it's not that far reaching a stereotype.

It's more like there are various groups on either sides - there are alliances, if you will.  Various factions that although they may not completely agree with each other - they either agree with each other enough or disagree with the other side more than enough; for them to have ended up on the particular sides that they are.

Discussions about TSW are fertile grounds for this particular forum battle to take place.  In a curious sense, one could even say that it goes beyond just the X vs. Y battles and introduces the Z element - as some of those that one might have expected to be supportive, have broken off...splintered off as another fraction.  While Z does not agree with Y, they disagree enough with X, that boom - we've got the Mayan Apocalypse!  Okay, that's a little melodramatic and would have been better stated on Saturday afternoon as we waited for SyFy's latest Saturday night film...lol...but if you step back, you can see it.

While TSW is not perfect (no game is - different games will be better for different folks, everybody has their preferences - but nothing's perfect)... it's amazing how much discussion about TSW goes on that soon has nothing to do with TSW at all.  It's a magnet for the debates...the poster child for the divide.

oh please.. TSW isnt that much on peoples mind. This site is really the only gaming site i see ANY discussion about it on and it has died down a lot lately.

Hrmmmm, to counter what you've said here...I simply only need to point to your having said something here.  :)

Name another game that has so much potential for that X, Y, Z debate?  So many other games are so didactic.  TSW's mind boggling in how it divides the playerbase.