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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Would you be interested in a real good VS neutral VS evil MMORPG? And chaotic, neutral, and lawful?

13 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/12
Posts: 42

OP  9/17/12 6:37:45 AM#1

Imagine this; a fantasy/medieval MMORPG similiar to WoW, Everquest, or DaoC, but with a heavy DnD influence, especially when it comes to alignment. This game would have nine factions, organized by alignment, and each faction would play differently, not just in terms of storyline, but by what kind of players each would attract, and what would be allowed, as well.

Upon creating a character, your first choice would be alignment. This would dictate what faction you belonged to, but also what you could and couldn't do in-game. Here's where they would start...

Lawful Good: These characters would belong to a great kingdom ruled by a benevolent king. This would feature a powerful city, organized city, and it would all be bright, white, and basically an idealistic utopia of order. Basically a paladin/priest/knightly kingdom.

Neutral Good: These characters would exist in a more philosophical altruistic meritocracy, that was more majestic than the lawful good city, but far more chaotic. Instead of the theme of bright, light, and white, it would be more surreal purples, blues, and sparkling skies. Basically a more wizardly city.

Chaotic Good: They wouldn't have a real kingdom, just tribes that had smaller outposts, concentrated on a wonderful woodland realm. Think druids, barbarians, of a good sort. Perhaps of an elvish appearance.

Lawful Neutral: This would be a big democracy that has a lot of power, but a very mechanical appearance. Think of an authoritarian city that has a lot of grey in its design. I guess the class focus here would be fighters.

True Neutral: A really apathetic land that exists in the mountains. Think dwarven in design. Industrial or commerce-filled, I guess it would be like a banker utopia, where everyone minds their own business, and nobody really is interested in the outside world.

Chaotic Neutral: A pirate city. Think the most anarchic land  you can, with partying all the time, and random violence and just general freedom.

Lawful Evil: A malevolent empire that is ruled by a cruel dictator. Very black, dark, dreary, but also lots of flags, marching, unified by hatred, etc. Think shadow knights, fighters, dark priests, that sort of thing.

Neutral Evil: The opposite of neutral good, also a philosophical city, but of the more evil kind. Lots of surreal red, black, grey. Not dreary, but frightening, bright, but in an unnatural purple and green light. Basically lots of warlocks, necromancers, evil wizards.

Chaotic Evil: A true place of madness. Much like chaotic good, but a dread forest, filled with evil barbarians, corrupt druids, things like that. Perhaps tribes of savages.


Now you'd chose your city-state or empire, and you'd enter the world. You'd have different stories based on alignment, but it would go further, and you'd be doing different things. Like a lawful good might be feeding orphans, chaotic evil might be torturing people for pleasure.

Not only in the game, however, but also in game design. Chosing a lawful faction would regulate what your character could do. First of all, lawful factions wouldn't have the same level of individualism and freedom. You'd have to pay taxes (moderate in the case of good, soul-crushing in the case of evil, but allowing bribery and theft in the case of evil, also), and be forced to run certain NPC quests when required. You'd have a lot less freedom of mobility, being unable to just explore the world, you'd be confined to doing what randomly generated NPC quests told you to do. A lot more group action here. Think in terms of belonging to a big guild that is your lawful faction, and engaging in almost entirely group play, either with NPCs, other lawful good/neutral/evil players, and really a focus of the faction over individual. Everything you did would be bettering your faction, and your own character's accomplishments wouldn't really even show up, just your faction's. A real collectivist experience. Plus, game chat channels would be more strongly moderated, and you'd really get a lot more rules in what you could or couldn't do. Like you couldn't steal, couldn't scam other players, couldn't do anything unlawful, both as a character, and player, here.

Moving on to chaos. Chaotic choices would give a lot more solo play options, and way more freedom. You'd have immense freedom of mobility, able to just explore the world as you desired, and a lot more choice on what quests you completed and what you actually did. However, you'd not gain the benefits of the lawful systems. There would be no taxes to pay, but you'd also have no NPC-created goods, the entire economy would be in the players's hands. There'd also be no real guard presence. If you wanted to kill or steal from other players, no NPCs would really stop you, aside from other chaotic players stoping you for whatever reason. It would also have no moderation on chat, you could curse if you wanted to, it would be a real anarchic environment. You'd belong to no faction, and all success would be reflected as an individual.

On the more neutral side of things, you'd get a blend of solo and group content, success reflecitng on both, choice of a variety of groups or to go solo, basically a blend of the two.

Now on to good VS evil. The good faction would have helpful and friendly guards or players that would protect you in cities and towns against other players and monsters, it would have NPC-created goods for cheap prices, and a strong regulation of player economy on lawful good, or simply more benevolent players on chaotic good, as there would be a thing called 'goodness' meter. It would function like a reputation, and doing things like selling items for cheap to fellow players as a chaotic good, would rise it, following orders and doing benevolent quests as lawful good would raise it also.

You'd get a real good vibe from playing here. Profanity and being mean or scamming players would get you banned on the good side, and basically the NPCs would be very useful to help you, and players would naturally become good people here. It would be a bright sunshine environment, through a variety of functions and rewards, and a strong anti-evil idealogy, rewarding you for bringing evil players to justice.

PvP would not be allowed, neither would stealing in good areas, as good to other good, but chaotic or even neutral good could steal from evil characters, or kill them in their cities, but lawful good could not attack them unless the evil attacked first, or proved evil somehow.

Now moving on to evil. Evil would really feel evil. First of all there would be no NPC or player charities allowed here. NPCs would often not pay you for completing quests, and you'd have to use intimidation, torture, and stealing to really get ahead against NPCs or players, yes, you could torture, steal, and all that evil stuff.

Lawful evil would have the same protection that lawful good would have in cities and towns, but it would be a lot more wicked. If your character's race was not the right one, guards would kill you and leave the other race alone, if another player attacked you in that city that was the proper race. You could bribe guards and players to not do justice as lawful evil, and there'd be a lot of Machievellianism going on here.

Scamming would not only be allowed by the game masters, it would be encouraged, and if someone got scammed and reported, they could get banned for wasting the game master's time, and being laughed at. Profanity would be completely allowed, and any chat of any type would be allowed. Think Xbox Live or the original anonymity, you could say whatever you wanted, no filtering at all by the game masters.

Chaotic evil would be even more free, and worse, as full PvP killing and looting would exist. You could just kill another player and take all their items and money if you desired, or you could pickpocket and steal from them. You could torture NPCs, and do all kinds of evil actions. Like the goodness meter, the evil side would have an evil meter, and you'd have to actually go around randomly killing players, evil, neutral, or good, to increase it. If your evil meter got higher, you'd get rewarded, like with good.

Scamming players, harassing them, all would be rewarded by the game. As lawful evil, you could even rise in ranks with the system and actually order NPCs around to kill, steal from, or just imprison other players. You'd have complete control here.

Neutral would have more a balance between the two. The common factor would either be money (chaotic neutral/true neutral) or status (lawful neutral). You'd be motivated by self-improvement, and possibly improving your faction, but chat would be mildly moderated, and scamming would not be allowed, unless you chose a thief character and stole from a player. PvP would be more restricted, but not as much as good. There'd be no good or evil meter, and the only way to increase would be to get wealthier or increase reputation with the neutral faction (lawful neutral only, but true neutral could chose between several mini-factions).


Overall this game would be unique because playing as good would actually feel good, same with neutral and evil. Ideally, on the good side, players would be friendly, cooperative, and you'd really feel like you were the good guy, but you'd have the burden of being restricted on what you could say and do, and would often have to act altruistically, even to your detriment.

Neutral would be more what I consider most MMOs to be now. You'd be primarily focused on self-improvement, and most people's attitudes here would be mutual cooperation, but only if they could benefit. You'd get basically decent people, but not a lot of friendliness, unless you were of value to other players. It would be a real selfish environment, but not all bad, you'd have a mild amount of freedom, a lot in the case of chaotic neutral, but you'd also have no obligation to act altruistically, but you wouldn't have the same level of freedom that evil did, nor would you get the charity that good got.

Evil would be the most wicked alignment, players here would feel like the scum of the earth, you'd get rudeness, fake niceness, scammers, hackers, basically all kinds of nasty people who were psychopaths or sociopaths, and it would all be rewarded by the game. However, despite such an unpleasant crowd, you'd have a true taste of freedom (in the case of neutral or chaotic evil), and you'd be able to say and do whatever you wanted, as long as you were strong enough to back up your words. Lawful evil would be the most twisted, you'd have the least amount of freedom, but if you rose through the ranks, the amount of freedom you had would greatly increase, and you could order entire groups of players or NPCs around to do your bidding.


Overall, it would feel right, and be a very interesting psychological experiment, to see who prefered good over evil.

If interested, what alignment would you play?

Lawful Good
Neutral Good
Chaotic Good
Lawful Neutral
True Neutral
Chaotic Neutral
Lawful Evil
Neutral Evil
Chaotic Evil
(login to vote)

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13609

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/17/12 6:48:21 AM#2

Unless it was created by a major studio with 600+ devs full time on the project, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. I don't think you realize what maintaining and updating something like that would entail, let alone what it would cost to create it.

Your idea is built on the premise that action and intent are one in the same. It seems also built on the premise that NPCs function like people. Intimidate or torture of an entity that has nothing to fear and feels no pain would just be an annoying additional set of hoops to go through to get your quest reward, as there would be no actual intimidation or torture - just some sadism-themed steps tacked onto the end of a mission.

I'd suggest walking through more than a snapshot of this idea and consider what the benefits of any of this are to either player or developer.

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein


Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/10
Posts: 163

9/17/12 6:49:25 AM#3

The basic ideas are very interesting. But I think the details could use some work.
Don't really have much time to do a full on critique though.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/11
Posts: 983

Most Morbid One

9/17/12 6:50:26 AM#4
This requires people to actually RP these roles.. Chaotic Nuetral and etc. is not a class its an alignment. (horrible spelling on that I know) MMOs today for the most part just aren't about this anymore.. sad too... So much fun to be had...

PM before you report at least or you could just block.


Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13609

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

9/17/12 6:58:04 AM#5
Originally posted by Opapanax
This requires people to actually RP these roles.. Chaotic Nuetral and etc. is not a class its an alignment. (horrible spelling on that I know) MMOs today for the most part just aren't about this anymore.. sad too... So much fun to be had...

Agreed. In an RP setting, the alignments could prove to offer nice toolset for depth to personal and player-created stories. 

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein


Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/06
Posts: 609

9/17/12 7:05:45 AM#6

Someone raised this a few years ago. The problems off the top of my head:

- No reprisals by good for evil griefing

- Poor balance if most play evil

- Too much work developing different mechanics and content types for the different alignments

- Not realistic to police good player behaviour such as profanity


Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/10
Posts: 973

9/17/12 7:10:30 AM#7

A trifaction game does sound interesting, would report a bit more work from the developers but it would make for some interesting PvP.

I could see the good and evil ganging up on the sharebears though XD


Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/11
Posts: 983

Most Morbid One

9/17/12 7:19:43 AM#8

Something like a Karma system would help to enforce some of these RP'ing rulesets, but on the real it all comes down to the players to actually give effort in maintaining their alignments as such.

My fondess memories of gaming MMO wise comes from Ultima Online and the private shard I was apart of for a few years. I started out as just some adventurer in the world and through RP'ing over the life of the character and the expereinces he had. He went from being a lonely adventure in the realm of Tieravon (Miss you Tieravon) to becoming a Vampire Master of very evil alignment.

This was not done on my own and I dare not take all the credit. It was my dedication to RP'ing and the numererous others willingness to accept my RP to gain such noteriety granted to me by our GM's. Our community of players was relatively small maybe tops of 200 players, but each character had their own backstory, their own alignment and their own balancing acts of the morale choices they made with those characters that gave UO life many, many years after it most prominant times.

I have yet to truely play another game that allowed for so much player freedom in shaping the world and players around them. Games such as EVE online are/were great oppurtunities to continue this trend, but the trend has fallen continiously over the years as the RP has significantly been removed from most modern day AAA or otherwise MMO-RP-games.

I blame more so the players than the developers because companies are just going to shell out whatever the people want for the most part and as the generations have gotten younger of those that actually play these games on a regular basis it has become more or less a fragfest in games. Where it's all about the meta-game and min/maxing stats.

Miss those former days, not saying that they were the surpreme solution but honestly I feel thats what made games unique and living. Even RP servers in most of todays games are not heavily moderated for actual RP and many players are forced to take their RP to far corners of the world to get it done.

PM before you report at least or you could just block.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

9/17/12 7:41:04 AM#9

personally i would prefer to keep it simple and have good vs evil. You would never be able to create a ruleset that would actually work with all those variables. I think neutrality screws everything up.

i guess im not much for fence sitters.


Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20125

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/17/12 7:49:55 AM#10

Only problem with this model is Neutral is very hard to enact, and once it was argued that no one can really roleplay True Neutral, player response would have to be almost at random, one time helping someone and the next time killing them for no particular reason, hard for humans to think like that.

Might be an interesting social experiement, but seems like an impossible task to do programatically.


In my day MMORPG's were sooooo hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow....uphill both ways.
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

9/17/12 12:34:25 PM#11
Alignments are very hard to enforce computationally.   I think back to the stories of an era of UO where it was discovered that the most efficient way to increase compassion was to kill the NPCs you'd rescued to make them respawn immediately.

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 2421

9/17/12 9:08:55 PM#12
Awesome idea! I'd CERTAINLY play it on NG side ;)...

Though, it WOULD require a HUGE studio to pull it off. But if they succeeded...

Oh boy! Would be all I would say :)

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 804


9/17/12 9:14:52 PM#13
Originally posted by Opapanax
This requires people to actually RP these roles.. Chaotic Nuetral and etc. is not a class its an alignment. (horrible spelling on that I know) MMOs today for the most part just aren't about this anymore.. sad too... So much fun to be had...

Precisely my thoughts.

Back in my old PnP days, I remember what a challenge certain alignments posed during adventures.  It's not something you can use when it's fun and ignore when it's inconvenient.  

As already said above, this would be a massive undertaking.  But I would absolutely love it.

Playing: H1Z1, The Crew, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
Mourning: World of Darkness, Vanguard, City of Heroes

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