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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So I know I'm in the minority....

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102 posts found
  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

9/16/12 6:25:32 AM#41

I just can't see the fun appeal in "I'm so powerful; I walk into a level 20 zone at  80 and everything dies in one shot. I just turn on retaliation and watch every mob in an 8 mile radius die. Yay."

 

Level scaling means I can help my lower level friends level up, AND get meaningful XP. I can go grind low-level crafting mats and still level. I just can't see the downside to that either.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 4862

9/16/12 6:45:40 AM#42
Dais, when I play gw2 I basically level in a zone 3-5 levels above me to keep it tricky. When I do go to lower levels I do basically destroy mobs just like jogger. Downscaling gives me 1 big advantage - I can play with anyone at anytime.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3588

9/16/12 6:54:02 AM#43

I do feel there is toon progression, because if you go back as high lvl toon with full traits and lvl80 gear, the early zones become a lot easier. You hit mobs harder and they hit you for less dmg. But it will never become trivial no.

And I am glad about that. Not just to keep the gameplay in those areas more interesting so I can help guildies without falling asleep. But also for immersion reasons. One thing that always annoyed me in other MMO's is how mobs can be one shotted in early zones if you are high lvl. This immediately makes any 'serious problem' that inhabitants of that zone have completely meaningless. Because it just doesn't make sense to be able to one shot a bandit in one zone, while having to kite for what feels an hour when fighting the same gang in a different zone. Also, there wouldnt be a problem for those ppl to begin with, if those mobs can be roflstomped like that.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3468

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/16/12 7:22:35 AM#44
I'm with the person saying I have too much fun to pay attention to my level! Especially not being able to out level your content anet figured out a way to allow people to just keep playing.

  dlld

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/08
Posts: 542

9/16/12 7:29:16 AM#45
Lower level mobs are still trivial just not to the point of doing 8950% of their hp in damage in one hit. If you go to the lvl 1-5 area you'll notice you kill mobs in about 2-3 hits.
  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2969

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

9/16/12 7:38:08 AM#46

Honestly, I'm almost thinking the level scaling might be in part what is making me feel rather bored of leveling. I just feel no satisfaction from leveling, and I think its in part due to the fact the level scales you down. It feels like I'm making no progress at all. Talent points just don't feel like they do anything to change stuff up, and skill points you typically will have everything you need relatively early, myself having everything done on my thief by  35 and my mesmer right as a hit 30. I think in part it contributes to the feeling that you don't progress and tires out some people from playing.

 

It does keep some 'challenge' but at the same time, its not really hard to begin with. In truth too you have no real point doing lower level content as well since the experience you would get is trivial the higher level you get and its just a time waster mostly, unless you might be going for the 100% complete and praying its not bugged so they don't go "Sorry, we can't fix bugs" and screw you over royally due a bug on their side making your 100% a waste of time.

  User Deleted
9/16/12 7:45:48 AM#47

uhm no, downleveling is the best thing ever. We don't have griefers running around messing everything up for everyone else for one thing.

secondly, you don't have to wait for your late blooming friends to get up to your level to play with them.

and finally, when you do the hearts in a zone you don't always catch them all. not all of the events occur on timers which is what the rest of us were trying to tell you guys the entire time prelaunch so you can go through and do the hearts that are active when you are there in the zone but if you are a completionist then you won't have REALLY completed that zone and can come back later to get the hearts you don't have.

Hearts of course being mostly in the pre-30 zones as they begin to go poof as you go up in level and diminish.

  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

9/16/12 7:53:36 AM#48
Originally posted by itgrowls

uhm no, downleveling is the best thing ever. We don't have griefers running around messing everything up for everyone else for one thing.

secondly, you don't have to wait for your late blooming friends to get up to your level to play with them.

and finally, when you do the hearts in a zone you don't always catch them all. not all of the events occur on timers which is what the rest of us were trying to tell you guys the entire time prelaunch so you can go through and do the hearts that are active when you are there in the zone but if you are a completionist then you won't have REALLY completed that zone and can come back later to get the hearts you don't have.

Hearts of course being mostly in the pre-30 zones as they begin to go poof as you go up in level and diminish.

Blazeridge Steppes lvl 40 to 50 zone, 15 heart quests. I am pretty sure that is not pre 30. Next 50 to 60 zone i will do the count and let you know how many heart quests are there since i can not play right now. Stop spreading mis information please.

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

9/16/12 7:54:17 AM#49
Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
Level scaling is what makes the world of GW2 possible.  Otherwise this would happen: "Oh, look it's the Shatterer!" *level 80 one shots it*. "Well, that was fun...NOT."

Easily solved by implementing a political system and/or punishments.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2838

9/16/12 8:08:55 AM#50
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
That is because level isn't the system that classify how hard mobs are, level is a player indicator.

 

Mobs have ranks.

You have common, veteran, elite, champions and legendary mobs,

Elite, Champion and Legendary mobs will always be hard.

And your premise is fake: you can kill the crab just fine and it won't pose a threath unless you are asleep, but you are still mortal,

Also part of the god effect is more a design to sell expansions and monthly fees than exactly RPG.



What a load of crap. "Level" is too a measure of how hard a mob is. Let's see you take your level 20 hero and go kill a common level 40 crab. Tell me again how level is just "a player indicator."

 

Yes, mobs have ranks. They also have "levels." A level 5 bear is not as tough as a level 15 bear. Same mob. Same "rank." Differing levels.

With the downleveling that GW2 has, yes, these mobs will ALWAYS be tough. There is no way to go back and beat the snot out of that one elite mob that owned your ass back in the day. NEVER will you be able to go back and one-hit him, no matter how great your achievements are.

RPG. I just killed the biggest, baddest, most terrifying mob in all the world. I am great! On to a different zone and maybe do some world exploration. Nothing, and I mean nothing should pose a threat to me. I just saved the world! Yet here I am, outside of Divinity's Reach, trading blows with some worm, getting knocked down by some boar, and picking my way into a centaur camp. I should be able to waltz right in and clean everything out with no trouble. Thus God-mode.

This has nothing to do with sub fees or expansions. Why would I invest in something that takes away my God-mode. This new content that gives me new, tougher content to overcome?

What planet do you live on?

A level 5 bear is exactly as tough as level 15 bear and fight exactly the same - the only difference is that there is this silly stats spreadsheet. I can't beat a level 15 bear with a level 5 character because the developers don't let me.

Yes, level is a stupid archaic mechanic from a genre that required almost no mechanic player skill.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 4862

9/16/12 8:09:58 AM#51
Lolwhat, ' a political system' there is not a single game that does this successfully, and for good reason - human selfishness.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

9/16/12 8:14:06 AM#52
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Lolwhat, ' a political system' there is not a single game that does this successfully, and for good reason - human selfishness.

RF Online did it successfully for instance. It comes down to the principle that if the elected people are not meeting the demands of the people, they lose their power during next mandate period. 

  User Deleted
9/16/12 8:27:31 AM#53

I love this feature, in other mmorpg i never went back to early areas as it was pointless. In gw2 i spend a good amount of time all over the place.

Its a shame other themeparks dont do the same so you get a good ammount of content to play around with, other games usaly have 1-2 zones your ment to play around with befor an expansion hit and add 1 or 2 new endgame zones

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 4862

9/16/12 8:31:42 AM#54
If the political system I'm rf worked it would not the large scale probmls (and flaws) in it community play and spirit.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  Meridion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 1503

None of you understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!

9/16/12 8:35:36 AM#55

It's because of all the idiots ruining your experience by powerleveling/powerkilling/powernerding with their max-level megachars...

I sorely remember hordes of cretins camping the OP-mentioned hogger just to lol at low level players and feel  better about themselves.

The downleveling-system is a buzzkill for oligophrenics and the behavior-impaired who think that by leveling in a video game they achieve something noteworthy.

If you wanna achieve something to be proud of use the "logout"-button. While everyone else is happy to have a challenging and rewarding experience way after they outleveled the zone.

M

  Terranah

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3618

9/16/12 8:36:40 AM#56
I like it as it keeps the game challenging even when going back to the early zones.
  Gandolfi

Novice Member

Joined: 10/01/11
Posts: 43

9/16/12 8:40:05 AM#57

I love the level scaling too - and would agree this is one of the best features of GW2 among many great features.

But, for the sake of argument, I wonder if there would be room for a 'roflstomp' mode using the current overflow server technology, once the playerbase has spread out more and the overflow tech is under less stress.

Personally, I wouldn't want to use this, but I can accept that others may enjoy a little god-moding now and then. The key would be to isolate this from regular players - including those in the overflow. However, we know there are multiple overflow servers from the experience of often never ending up in the same one as friends (fortunately a problem that seems to have been largely fixed now). How about having the option to toggle off the level scaling, but this would force you into a special, isolated type of overflow server populated only by players who have also toggled off the level scaling. You probably wouldn't want to live there very long, but would let those who need to see how far they've come get their fix of god-mode.

Just a thought, each to his own and all that :-)

  TheSkimDotNet

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 283

Don't be simple

9/16/12 8:44:19 AM#58

Good sir, I believe if you read the official GW2 post you would see the reasoning behind everything you just mentioned. Trust me read it. 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

  dais

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 95

 
OP  9/16/12 8:49:16 AM#59

Lots of replies, sorry I went to bed, have to sleep eventually ; )

 

There are a few people that understood what I am trying to explain, and I am glad I am not the only one that feels that way.  Also I don't know if I clarified this well, but I don't think the level scaling should be scrapped entirely.  It works in GW2, and if it were just purely for a leveling purpose I think I would be fine with it.  A previous poster mentioned SWTOR and outleveling content.  That was extremely annoying when I played that game because I am a completionist, and yeah even if you did 3/4 of the quests on a planet by the time you started into the last ones they were already gray.  Although extremely annoying and stupid, that isn't the fault of no level scaling, but poor design on the development side of the game (among many other problems with that game).  The issue I have with it is once you reach say 80.

 

I don't spend my (limited) gaming hours running around lowbie zones just smashing content, that would be silly.  I would imagine the vast majority of players also don't do that, although they might on occasion.  The difference is knowing that you *could* do it; you don't do it, and you don't have to prove that you could, but it's there if you REALLY wanted to.  It's like when you played games that had cheat codes.  As a gamer you realize although it might be fun once or twice, 99.9% of the time you don't want it because you need a challenge for the game to stay fun.  I also fit into this category.  I like games that are challenging, but I want those challenges to feel appropriate for my character's progression.  What I mean is when you are level 1 you get the crummy jobs, cleaning sap off trees, checking crab cages, killing grubs in a farmers field.  When you are say 40 I can expect killing evil spirits, invading army leaders, that sort of thing.  When I am 80 I want dragons, liches, or whatever Anet decides to throw at me that feels sufficiently powerful/tough.  At that point my character has paid his dues and is a hero/champion in his own right.  How would you feel if there was a Dynamic Event where you had to help Logan or Eir Stegalkin kill a level 8 champion grub.  Say in that event you decided not to help and just watch Logan and the grub duke it out, and the grub won.....You would probably be like "Oh wow, Logan you suck!".  The major NPCs of the game are larger than life, and they have a rich history behind them.  You would expect them all to have the combat prowess to back it up too.  The same applies to your own character too.  At a certain point there has to be content that is just beneath you.

 

Also for the people saying you one and two shot mobs I find that highly unlikely.  You might be killing them fast, but one shot has a literal meaning.  Keep in mind there are different ranks of mobs.  If you are one and two shotting things it's normal mobs.  Try to do that to a champion/legendary mob and see what happens.  If you still say you are doing that then make a video and post it on Youtube, because I am calling your bluff.  Forums are full of internet tough guys.

  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

9/16/12 8:56:39 AM#60
Originally posted by Thillian

Level scaling is the stupidies thing to have in an RPG, it kills the immersion and character progression.

It favors FPS and console players that want the same difficulty all the time (i.e. system with no character progression). Level scaling is anti-RPG feature, it was the most hated feature in Oblivion. 

Level scaling is a cheap way to balance the game world, in which developers can't otherwise bother with a reasonable level progression. Anet again took the easy way and it's ridiiculous to see that people actually call this an innovation. Incredible.

 

 

Maybe not in such strong words, but I feel the same way.

I don't know, I guess I really like the classic RPG design where your character matters more than you do, and its progression is the core of the game in the first place. Like Thillian said, downscaling was my biggest annoyance with Oblivion, and the reason I outright didn't like that game.

GW2 in this sense feels a bit more like a console action game than an RPG to me. And though it does have its share of nice features, I do like RPG in my MMOs. :)

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