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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So I know I'm in the minority....

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102 posts found
  dais

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 78

 
OP  9/15/12 11:09:10 PM#1

....but does any one else besides me *not* like the level scaling in GW2?  Don't get me wrong, I understand what they were trying to go for.  You have the freedom to choose where you want to go to level, and if you are a completionist you can stick around well past the time you would normally have to leave a zone.  And on paper it sounds great.  When I was following Guild Wars 2 during development I was telling my wife "See, I can still play when you aren't online, but I can go back and help you and we will still be the same level".  In practice however I hate it.  If it's a feature that every player just absolutely loves then why not make it optional, like a prompt or checkbox?  My experience so far is only up to a 33 Warrior, so this may change later.   It really feels like there is zero incentive to level, and you don't *feel* like the epic hero of a story.  In other games there is a clear metric that you can see your character gaining in power because challenges in the past are now trivial to you.  All the explanations that have been given where people defend it say "It's boring to go back and one shot things, go team Anet!".  In case anyone has forgotten sometimes it's FUN to do that!  If you played WoW for a fair amount of time admit it, you went to goldshire and one shot Hogger and spat on his corpse.  And you did it because at that level he was hard, and he may have killed you.  It's fun to look back on things like that and say "Look how far I have come".  Also for a role playing game it's a huge immersion breaker.  You can be 'Rocktar, Slayer of Dragons, Warmaster of the Vigil', but you might be helping your level 13 buddy and get killed by a lvl 14 champion crab.

 

TLDR:  As long as games have new and exciting content at max level for you to do then there is no need to have level scaling, and sometimes it's fun to roflstomp old content, because you earned that "Badass" title.

  Fendel84M

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2342

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/15/12 11:13:34 PM#2

the problem is, in this game with Dynamic Events, high level players would either ruin the experience by roflstomping the DEs, or they would power level people like this. The way it is now, their is a progression, but you can't just outlevel all the content and destroy it.

If it wasn't for the DEs though I could see it being optional. Can you figure out a way for it to work? Cause i won't accept that its ok for you to come into metrica province at lvl 30 and just one shot all my Dynamic Event mobs.

Also unless your gear really sucks, or you really suck you are still going to be stronger. This game is all about players working together not one killing everything.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 3760

9/15/12 11:14:33 PM#3
At 80 I went to a 1-15 area and even when scaled down with my traits and scaled down gear, it was pretty much god mode. I was killing mobs so quick that somebody asked me how I was doing that - heh.
  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2611

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

9/15/12 11:17:03 PM#4
It doesn't bother me. When scaled down my gear and traits still make it easy mode compared to when I first rolled through the zone. It's still difficult enough that I have to play the game. I can't just hit auto attack, walk away, and expect to survive the encounter.
  Ghavrigg

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 608

9/15/12 11:23:33 PM#5

If you actually try the scaling down, it's really not that bad. At level 20, if I scale down to other stuff, I'm noticeably stronger than others who are not leveled down, and generally I just cut through enemies like butter. That being said, no, I'm not going to be able to take out an elite monster like the Champion Cave Troll in Queensdale, north of Claypool, as they were intended to always be taken on by multiple people, as far as I can tell. I might be wrong about that, but meh.

Either way, scaling down means you're still stronger than you were originally at that level, plus you'll look cooler than most others around, so you can still show off your power a good bit.

Anyway, I like it a lot, and honestly, I doubt the systmes in this game would work as well if there WASN'T level scaling. As others said above, level 80's would come in and tear shit up and ruin people's fun.

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2277

9/15/12 11:26:33 PM#6
Disagree with you OP. level scaling is GW2 greatest feature. 
  gessekai332

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 821

9/15/12 11:27:41 PM#7
my incentive to level was so i can get more money and endgme crfting mats to spend towards my lvl 80 exotics and i can play in zones with real DE's and that dont have stupid heart quests. I also have certain builds and elites i want to unlock for PvE and WvW use. lots of incentive to level if you ask me. level scaling is op when you are decked out in endgame golds and oranges and everyone else in the lvl 1-15 zone is in white gear.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  dais

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 78

 
OP  9/15/12 11:29:34 PM#8
Originally posted by Fendel84M

the problem is, in this game with Dynamic Events, high level players would either ruin the experience by roflstomping the DEs, or they would power level people like this. The way it is now, their is a progression, but you can't just outlevel all the content and destroy it.

If it wasn't for the DEs though I could see it being optional. Can you figure out a way for it to work? Cause i won't accept that its ok for you to come into metrica province at lvl 30 and just one shot all my Dynamic Event mobs.

Also unless your gear really sucks, or you really suck you are still going to be stronger. This game is all about players working together not one killing everything.

There are ways to do it if Anet decided they wanted to.  You could have a checkbox in the menu that said "Uncheck me to no longer level scale.  Please note if this is unchecked you will be permanently placed in the overflow que of all zones 4 or more levels below you" etc.  I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it's a start for brainstorming.  You could still go back to zones to explore/vistas/roflstomp content, but you would be seperated from the vast majority of players.

 

Also as I level I do see more and more of a gap from the extremely low level stuff and where my character is at, but my issue is more about feeling like you have attained a certain status with your character, and the level scaling robbing you of that play experience.  Even as a level 80 I highly doubt I could go back and solo Ascalon Catacombs due to level scaling, even though it would be 50 levels below me.  As I said in my previous post I can see why Anet did it, but as the game evolves and people mature their characters they will come to realize there is a downside to it as well.

  Fendel84M

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2342

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/15/12 11:32:56 PM#9
Originally posted by dais
Originally posted by Fendel84M

the problem is, in this game with Dynamic Events, high level players would either ruin the experience by roflstomping the DEs, or they would power level people like this. The way it is now, their is a progression, but you can't just outlevel all the content and destroy it.

If it wasn't for the DEs though I could see it being optional. Can you figure out a way for it to work? Cause i won't accept that its ok for you to come into metrica province at lvl 30 and just one shot all my Dynamic Event mobs.

Also unless your gear really sucks, or you really suck you are still going to be stronger. This game is all about players working together not one killing everything.

There are ways to do it if Anet decided they wanted to.  You could have a checkbox in the menu that said "Uncheck me to no longer level scale.  Please note if this is unchecked you will be permanently placed in the overflow que of all zones 4 or more levels below you" etc.  I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it's a start for brainstorming.  You could still go back to zones to explore/vistas/roflstomp content, but you would be seperated from the vast majority of players.

 

Also as I level I do see more and more of a gap from the extremely low level stuff and where my character is at, but my issue is more about feeling like you have attained a certain status with your character, and the level scaling robbing you of that play experience.  Even as a level 80 I highly doubt I could go back and solo Ascalon Catacombs due to level scaling, even though it would be 50 levels below me.  As I said in my previous post I can see why Anet did it, but as the game evolves and people mature their characters they will come to realize there is a downside to it as well.

So it would just ruin the fun of people in the overflow zones? No, the only way I would not protest this feature, is if you were in your own private instance along with anyone you wanted to group with. If they wanna allow people to blow up stuff in a private zone i'm fine with that.

Also remember, with the scaling you get rewards relevant to your current level. I've gotten some of my best drops off of lvl 4 mobs while i was lvl 25 lol. That would have to change too. You should get no loot for face rolling mobs.

  User Deleted
9/15/12 11:38:42 PM#10
I'm ok with it as well (the scaling that is). I remember doing a DE in caledon forest when I hit level 40 and did it like I would do a DE in a 40-50 zone. Not only was it just as "challenging" (In quotes cause DE's aren't all that challenging. Only some get VERY long), I got appropriate rewards as well. Got a rare level 46 verdant pistol so in fact it makes it even better cause I know I'll be rewarded appropriately no matter where I do DEs. Well most of the time that is :\.
  Darkmoth

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 175

9/15/12 11:39:52 PM#11

I really disliked it at first, but I've changed my opinion. As others have said, you're still significantly more powerful than the zone you're downleveled to.

My remaining complaint is that the scaling isn't complete. For example, if a level 10 champion kills you, you're still paying level 80 repair costs, but the event rewards don't scale to match. Waypoint costs aren't scaled either, which means you pretty much have to run everywhere when you're downleveled.

Other than the cost issues though, I have to say I now think it's great. I don't want to see it in every game, but it works well here.

  Fendel84M

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2342

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/15/12 11:51:48 PM#12
Originally posted by Darkmoth

I really disliked it at first, but I've changed my opinion. As others have said, you're still significantly more powerful than the zone you're downleveled to.

My remaining complaint is that the scaling isn't complete. For example, if a level 10 champion kills you, you're still paying level 80 repair costs, but the event rewards don't scale to match. Waypoint costs aren't scaled either, which means you pretty much have to run everywhere when you're downleveled.

Other than the cost issues though, I have to say I now think it's great. I don't want to see it in every game, but it works well here.

You do get rewards based on your actual level.

  dais

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 78

 
OP  9/15/12 11:53:54 PM#13
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by dais
Originally posted by Fendel84M

the problem is, in this game with Dynamic Events, high level players would either ruin the experience by roflstomping the DEs, or they would power level people like this. The way it is now, their is a progression, but you can't just outlevel all the content and destroy it.

If it wasn't for the DEs though I could see it being optional. Can you figure out a way for it to work? Cause i won't accept that its ok for you to come into metrica province at lvl 30 and just one shot all my Dynamic Event mobs.

Also unless your gear really sucks, or you really suck you are still going to be stronger. This game is all about players working together not one killing everything.

There are ways to do it if Anet decided they wanted to.  You could have a checkbox in the menu that said "Uncheck me to no longer level scale.  Please note if this is unchecked you will be permanently placed in the overflow que of all zones 4 or more levels below you" etc.  I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it's a start for brainstorming.  You could still go back to zones to explore/vistas/roflstomp content, but you would be seperated from the vast majority of players.

 

Also as I level I do see more and more of a gap from the extremely low level stuff and where my character is at, but my issue is more about feeling like you have attained a certain status with your character, and the level scaling robbing you of that play experience.  Even as a level 80 I highly doubt I could go back and solo Ascalon Catacombs due to level scaling, even though it would be 50 levels below me.  As I said in my previous post I can see why Anet did it, but as the game evolves and people mature their characters they will come to realize there is a downside to it as well.

So it would just ruin the fun of people in the overflow zones? No, the only way I would not protest this feature, is if you were in your own private instance along with anyone you wanted to group with. If they wanna allow people to blow up stuff in a private zone i'm fine with that.

Also remember, with the scaling you get rewards relevant to your current level. I've gotten some of my best drops off of lvl 4 mobs while i was lvl 25 lol. That would have to change too. You should get no loot for face rolling mobs.

Well you are talking about the specific minutia of solving the problem, what I am trying to describe is the bigger picture.  Yes of course you wouldn't get loot for killing mobs vastly below you in level, and yes I know that the current system gives loot based off your level and not the mobs.  The reason I mentioned the overflow zone is because players are only briefly in there before moving to the main world, but yes a private zone would be fine too.  It could be done, but if Anet wanted to do it they would ask their development team to find a way, but I doubt it.

 

The bigger picture that I am trying to convey here is the second half of MMORPG, the RPG part.  If you have been playing a character for 3 years, aquired an axe forged from a fire breathing dragon, diamond armor crafted by dwarves in doom hold, and the helm of legendary gladiator "Vodar the Clumsy" it's really jarring when you can't kill a level 13 crab.  You have invested in your character, and you feel a sense of pride in all of your past accomplishments (that's why we have achievements).  Maybe I need to stop using the crab example.  In reality no matter how well geared or powerful your character is, due to level scaling there will be encounters that you just will not be able to beat unless you are in a group and it will be sufficiently challenging, even though you might outgear/outlevel it to the extreme.  When you have faced much more powerful enemies it's a little silly.

 

Also judging from all the other posts in this thread I am in the extreme minority.  With Guild Wars 2 being the most recent flavor of the month the vitriol is still thick, and people may have forgotten that there will be opinions that are different from their own.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4114

Remember the blisters you'd get in the palm of your hand from the corner of that joystick?

9/15/12 11:57:40 PM#14
Originally posted by dais
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by dais
Originally posted by Fendel84M

the problem is, in this game with Dynamic Events, high level players would either ruin the experience by roflstomping the DEs, or they would power level people like this. The way it is now, their is a progression, but you can't just outlevel all the content and destroy it.

If it wasn't for the DEs though I could see it being optional. Can you figure out a way for it to work? Cause i won't accept that its ok for you to come into metrica province at lvl 30 and just one shot all my Dynamic Event mobs.

Also unless your gear really sucks, or you really suck you are still going to be stronger. This game is all about players working together not one killing everything.

There are ways to do it if Anet decided they wanted to.  You could have a checkbox in the menu that said "Uncheck me to no longer level scale.  Please note if this is unchecked you will be permanently placed in the overflow que of all zones 4 or more levels below you" etc.  I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it's a start for brainstorming.  You could still go back to zones to explore/vistas/roflstomp content, but you would be seperated from the vast majority of players.

 

Also as I level I do see more and more of a gap from the extremely low level stuff and where my character is at, but my issue is more about feeling like you have attained a certain status with your character, and the level scaling robbing you of that play experience.  Even as a level 80 I highly doubt I could go back and solo Ascalon Catacombs due to level scaling, even though it would be 50 levels below me.  As I said in my previous post I can see why Anet did it, but as the game evolves and people mature their characters they will come to realize there is a downside to it as well.

So it would just ruin the fun of people in the overflow zones? No, the only way I would not protest this feature, is if you were in your own private instance along with anyone you wanted to group with. If they wanna allow people to blow up stuff in a private zone i'm fine with that.

Also remember, with the scaling you get rewards relevant to your current level. I've gotten some of my best drops off of lvl 4 mobs while i was lvl 25 lol. That would have to change too. You should get no loot for face rolling mobs.

Well you are talking about the specific minutia of solving the problem, what I am trying to describe is the bigger picture.  Yes of course you wouldn't get loot for killing mobs vastly below you in level, and yes I know that the current system gives loot based off your level and not the mobs.  The reason I mentioned the overflow zone is because players are only briefly in there before moving to the main world, but yes a private zone would be fine too.  It could be done, but if Anet wanted to do it they would ask their development team to find a way, but I doubt it.

 

The bigger picture that I am trying to convey here is the second half of MMORPG, the RPG part.  If you have been playing a character for 3 years, aquired an axe forged from a fire breathing dragon, diamond armor crafted by dwarves in doom hold, and the helm of legendary gladiator "Vodar the Clumsy" it's really jarring when you can't kill a level 13 crab.  You have invested in your character, and you feel a sense of pride in all of your past accomplishments (that's why we have achievements).  Maybe I need to stop using the crab example.  In reality no matter how well geared or powerful your character is, due to level scaling there will be encounters that you just will not be able to beat unless you are in a group and it will be sufficiently challenging, even though you might outgear/outlevel it to the extreme.  When you have faced much more powerful enemies it's a little silly.

 

Also judging from all the other posts in this thread I am in the extreme minority.  With Guild Wars 2 being the most recent flavor of the month the vitriol is still thick, and people may have forgotten that there will be opinions that are different from their own.

GW2, the ultimate in virtual Communism

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2446

9/16/12 12:16:14 AM#15
Originally posted by dais
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by dais
Originally posted by Fendel84M

the problem is, in this game with Dynamic Events, high level players would either ruin the experience by roflstomping the DEs, or they would power level people like this. The way it is now, their is a progression, but you can't just outlevel all the content and destroy it.

If it wasn't for the DEs though I could see it being optional. Can you figure out a way for it to work? Cause i won't accept that its ok for you to come into metrica province at lvl 30 and just one shot all my Dynamic Event mobs.

Also unless your gear really sucks, or you really suck you are still going to be stronger. This game is all about players working together not one killing everything.

There are ways to do it if Anet decided they wanted to.  You could have a checkbox in the menu that said "Uncheck me to no longer level scale.  Please note if this is unchecked you will be permanently placed in the overflow que of all zones 4 or more levels below you" etc.  I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it's a start for brainstorming.  You could still go back to zones to explore/vistas/roflstomp content, but you would be seperated from the vast majority of players.

 

Also as I level I do see more and more of a gap from the extremely low level stuff and where my character is at, but my issue is more about feeling like you have attained a certain status with your character, and the level scaling robbing you of that play experience.  Even as a level 80 I highly doubt I could go back and solo Ascalon Catacombs due to level scaling, even though it would be 50 levels below me.  As I said in my previous post I can see why Anet did it, but as the game evolves and people mature their characters they will come to realize there is a downside to it as well.

So it would just ruin the fun of people in the overflow zones? No, the only way I would not protest this feature, is if you were in your own private instance along with anyone you wanted to group with. If they wanna allow people to blow up stuff in a private zone i'm fine with that.

Also remember, with the scaling you get rewards relevant to your current level. I've gotten some of my best drops off of lvl 4 mobs while i was lvl 25 lol. That would have to change too. You should get no loot for face rolling mobs.

Well you are talking about the specific minutia of solving the problem, what I am trying to describe is the bigger picture.  Yes of course you wouldn't get loot for killing mobs vastly below you in level, and yes I know that the current system gives loot based off your level and not the mobs.  The reason I mentioned the overflow zone is because players are only briefly in there before moving to the main world, but yes a private zone would be fine too.  It could be done, but if Anet wanted to do it they would ask their development team to find a way, but I doubt it.

 

The bigger picture that I am trying to convey here is the second half of MMORPG, the RPG part.  If you have been playing a character for 3 years, aquired an axe forged from a fire breathing dragon, diamond armor crafted by dwarves in doom hold, and the helm of legendary gladiator "Vodar the Clumsy" it's really jarring when you can't kill a level 13 crab.  You have invested in your character, and you feel a sense of pride in all of your past accomplishments (that's why we have achievements).  Maybe I need to stop using the crab example.  In reality no matter how well geared or powerful your character is, due to level scaling there will be encounters that you just will not be able to beat unless you are in a group and it will be sufficiently challenging, even though you might outgear/outlevel it to the extreme.  When you have faced much more powerful enemies it's a little silly.

 

Also judging from all the other posts in this thread I am in the extreme minority.  With Guild Wars 2 being the most recent flavor of the month the vitriol is still thick, and people may have forgotten that there will be opinions that are different from their own.

That is because level isn't the system that classify how hard mobs are, level is a player indicator.

Mobs have ranks.

You have common, veteran, elite, champions and legendary mobs,

Elite, Champion and Legendary mobs will always be hard.

And your premise is fake: you can kill the crab just fine and it won't pose a threath unless you are asleep, but you are still mortal,

Also part of the god effect is more a design to sell expansions and monthly fees than exactly RPG.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  JRRNeiklot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/03/11
Posts: 101

9/16/12 12:16:46 AM#16
Downscaling blows.  It's one of the reasons I quit playing.
  dreamscaper

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/08
Posts: 1160

9/16/12 1:10:34 AM#17
I personally adore the downleveling. As I don't really care to hurry to endgame, it basically gives me a massive amount of content that I never have to worry about outleveling.

<3

  Darkmoth

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 175

9/16/12 1:11:17 AM#18
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Darkmoth

I really disliked it at first, but I've changed my opinion. As others have said, you're still significantly more powerful than the zone you're downleveled to.

My remaining complaint is that the scaling isn't complete. For example, if a level 10 champion kills you, you're still paying level 80 repair costs, but the event rewards don't scale to match. Waypoint costs aren't scaled either, which means you pretty much have to run everywhere when you're downleveled.

Other than the cost issues though, I have to say I now think it's great. I don't want to see it in every game, but it works well here.

You do get rewards based on your actual level.

Nope, certainly not for money. It scales some, but not to what a level-appropriate quest would be.

To verify, I did the Queensdale Farm event at level 30 and got 18 copper. The followup email contained 45 copper. Level 30 rewards are easily three-four times that normally.

  JonnyBigBoss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 696

9/16/12 1:29:11 AM#19
I love it, and anyone who has played an MMO at endgame and had a friend pick up the game should too.
  Fendel84M

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2342

I actually still like MMORPGs

9/16/12 1:42:07 AM#20
I think the real solution is a change of mentality. In most games that arbitrary number equates to automatic skill. But even a seasoned hit man can get shot in the back by an accountant with a pistol permit. The point is, in gw2 your guy isn't immortal. Your gear doesn't make you god.

It's always been pretty unrealistic
That you could stand toe to toe with a dragon that would obviously just step on you if it even noticed you. It's the equivelant of a spider killing a human by stabbing it with a tooth pick. Point being, I know you're used to being face rolling overpowered but gw2 is trying something different. I think I and many others
Don't want to see that vision compromised. There are plenty of games that do what you ask.

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