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News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] Guild Wars 2: Review in Progress - Part Three

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  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1572

 
OP  9/15/12 7:45:13 AM#1

This week, fresh off vacation, Bill brings us the third part in his Review in Progress for Guild Wars 2. He dives into the crafting, the UI, the Trading Post, and other general bits and pieces. Take a look!

I did an event this week that had me do math. And I loved it. It’s in Brisban Highlands, and I think it’s called “Utla Metamagicals”.  Basically, there are Asurans doing what they do best: messing with the space-time continuum and as Asura Gates let through tons of monstrous beasts through to our world, you’re running about helping them get the experiment running and preparing the test.  There are panels around the lab that ask you basic mathematical problems and give you multiple choices for the answer. Correctly respond = progress. 

Read the rest of Bill Murphy's Guild Wars 2: Review in Progress - Part Three.

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 3991

9/15/12 7:50:34 AM#2

Actually Bill.  When leveling crafting you should NOT "make lots of repeat stuff when leveling". That is the worst way to level your crafting skills.  Instead you should purely level on discoveries.   It's still a grind of sorts, but I found it to be a little better than the "grind 200 of the same items" way.

 

Crafting also give a ridiculou amount of XP.  With little planning I gained 8 levels in 90 minutes.. those are character levels.  Probably needs to be toned down a wee bit.

 

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

9/15/12 7:58:13 AM#3
Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Actually Bill.  When leveling crafting you should NOT "make lots of repeat stuff when leveling". That is the worst way to level your crafting skills.  Instead you should purely level on discoveries.   It's still a grind of sorts, but I found it to be a little better than the "grind 200 of the same items" way.

 

 

Is cooking an exception to that?  I've filled my packs with every ingredient I could find, but still only discovered a few basic items.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1572

 
OP  9/15/12 8:01:15 AM#4
You're right, I should mention that. But I find, at least so far, that even after discovering things, you do have to make dozens of lesser components to help push it along. I must be missing some discoveries... :)
  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1812

9/15/12 8:19:29 AM#5
Bill,

Don't forget to delve into the dungeons, so we can hear your views on that too. The first one is at level 30, called Ascalon Catacombs, incase you didn't already know. Looking forward to your wvwvw review too.
  Nephaerius

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1373

9/15/12 8:20:24 AM#6
You are probably missing some. Ive done leather jewels and artificing so far and discovery is the way to go.

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2006

9/15/12 8:29:55 AM#7
Originally posted by BillMurphy
You're right, I should mention that. But I find, at least so far, that even after discovering things, you do have to make dozens of lesser components to help push it along. I must be missing some discoveries... :)

No, you're doing it right.  Every piecewithin a given tier, all scepters from levels 75-150 for example, requires the same 2 components.  The only varying ingredient is the insignia/inscription.  There will be a few level 75 insignias, a few level 100 insignias and a few level 125 insignias.  Use a few of each within each level range for each set of components.  Optimally efficient crafting does require that you make several of each component during the early stages of each tier, while making them still provides skill ups.  Of course, this requires an understanding of just how many you will ultimately need to push through the next 75 levels, an understanding that can only fully be attained through practice and familiarity with the crafting system. 

  adamlin747

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/05
Posts: 21

9/15/12 8:35:56 AM#8
Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Actually Bill.  When leveling crafting you should NOT "make lots of repeat stuff when leveling". That is the worst way to level your crafting skills.  Instead you should purely level on discoveries.   It's still a grind of sorts, but I found it to be a little better than the "grind 200 of the same items" way.

 

Crafting also give a ridiculou amount of XP.  With little planning I gained 8 levels in 90 minutes.. those are character levels.  Probably needs to be toned down a wee bit.

 

Yes I find it annoying that I can't really level crafting equal to or ahead of my level because I gain xp for crafting, for mining, for fighting monsters in the area near the mining.  Some of us aren't in a huge rush to reach the end of this game and I think the overabundunt xp offered by everything I do is annoying.  Only two things other than that bother me no open world pvp (find it more exciting) and I personally kind of miss quest hubs because not it seems like there is no world story I am just in an area and kill stuff or whatever till heart fills up and move on :(  I know we all have our own stories but I think they should have mixed dynamic events, and still had quest hubs.  Plus it was a good way to meet other players, the "towns" in the areas feel dead to me and mostly just there for looks. 

  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

9/15/12 8:41:24 AM#9
Originally posted by Vhaln
...

 Is cooking an exception to that?  I've filled my packs with every ingredient I could find, but still only discovered a few basic items.

Yes cooking a bit of an exception and I think it is by far the best crafting discipline in the game. Two things you should craft loads of are "Loafs of Bread" and "Balls of Dough". Those two things alone can easily be made into dozens of different discovered foods, like different types of burgers and every single kind of tart/pie you can think of.

 

Also talking to every Heart you've unlocked is a must as a cook, since a lot of the times you can buy bulks of cooking ingredients from them. Once you've found the Lemon, Cherry & Peaches NPCs you are pretty much set.

  evolpc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 74

9/15/12 9:54:50 AM#10

"Queue times are anywhere between one and three hours long, even when you queue up for all at once. It’s disheartening because I don’t have that kind of time most days, but also a bit awesome to know that people seem to love WvW so much on Jade Quarry. But to review that portion of the game, I’m hoping that Pandaria’s release draws some of the heat off of the Eternal Battlegrounds so I can get some good time in. I won’t finish this review series until I can."

 

I think this is silly. You should not hold back a review in order to wait for them to do something about this or for the problem to fix itself. The way you guys usually throw reviews out there should be applied even handedly. If, due to a poor design choice, the feature is unavailable at review time, it should simply be penalized points within that review criteria. I love GW2 but you are journalists first, fans later. You shouldn't give favortism out so blatantly. You don't do this for other games (atleast in any of the reviews I have read over the years here at mmorpg.com)

 

Judge the game on its current merrits at the time of the review. If a feature is unavailable to be reviewed.... well then the recourse is very simple. Why go out of your way to avoid taking any points away?

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1572

 
OP  9/15/12 10:23:30 AM#11
Originally posted by evolpc

Judge the game on its current merrits at the time of the review. If a feature is unavailable to be reviewed.... well then the recourse is very simple. Why go out of your way to avoid taking any points away?

It's not about that, but rather about missing out the biggest part of its PVP. I'd not be able to judge it at all, whereas I can judge a majority of the PVE content and sPVP, but not the big draw: WVW.  I can't judge it on its current merits if I can't access all systems.  And I can't really take away points because a feature is popular either.  

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4508

9/15/12 10:27:03 AM#12
Originally posted by Master10K

Also talking to every Heart you've unlocked is a must as a cook, since a lot of the times you can buy bulks of cooking ingredients from them. Once you've found the Lemon, Cherry & Peaches NPCs you are pretty much set.

This ^.

I'd also suggest saving Karma for these NPCs. Whenever you find an NPC that sells cooking ingredients in bulk, ALWAYS buy 10 bags of them (which will give you 250 of the material). This'll ensure that you have the max of all your ingredients in storage for when you decide to do some serious cooking.

  petespri

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/12
Posts: 15

9/15/12 10:27:21 AM#13

@Evolc-

I think his point is not that "queues will be fine later so I'm waiting to review" so much as he wants to review the GAMEPLAY in WvW, which he cant since he hasnt' been in it.

  evolpc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 74

9/15/12 10:38:36 AM#14
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by evolpc

Judge the game on its current merrits at the time of the review. If a feature is unavailable to be reviewed.... well then the recourse is very simple. Why go out of your way to avoid taking any points away?

It's not about that, but rather about missing out the biggest part of it's PVP. I'd not be able to judge it at all, whereas I can judge a majority of the PVE content and sPVP, but not the big draw: WVW.  I can't judge it on its current merits, if I can't access all systems.  And I can't really take away points because a feature is popular either.  

You sound a lot more like a fan than a journalist. Obviously you would not be taking away points because a feature is popular. That's another cop out. When looking at it objectively the feature is unavailable to be scored. The reason is irrelevant. It is one of the major features of the game and should be available, within reason, to all who purchase the game. If it is not then it is a shortcoming of the game design, which you are representing yourself as a reviewer of. You keep saying yourself that you can't access the systems to review them. However the game will receive a glowing, gushing review at press time. It seems intellectually dishonest.

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2006

9/15/12 11:01:07 AM#15
Originally posted by evolpc
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by evolpc

Judge the game on its current merrits at the time of the review. If a feature is unavailable to be reviewed.... well then the recourse is very simple. Why go out of your way to avoid taking any points away?

It's not about that, but rather about missing out the biggest part of it's PVP. I'd not be able to judge it at all, whereas I can judge a majority of the PVE content and sPVP, but not the big draw: WVW.  I can't judge it on its current merits, if I can't access all systems.  And I can't really take away points because a feature is popular either.  

You sound a lot more like a fan than a journalist. Obviously you would not be taking away points because a feature is popular. That's another cop out. When looking at it objectively the feature is unavailable to be scored. The reason is irrelevant. It is one of the major features of the game and should be available, within reason, to all who purchase the game. If it is not then it is a shortcoming of the game design, which you are representing yourself as a reviewer of. You keep saying yourself that you can't access the systems to review them. However the game will receive a glowing, gushing review at press time. It seems intellectually dishonest.

The only journalistically honest thing he can do here is exactly what he has done: state and explain the current shortcoming and wait until he can actually play that aspect of the game before he analyzes, you know, that aspect of the game.  It would be downright dishonest to give WvW a completely negative review as you seem to desire him to do when he has zero experience to go by.  The only journalistic obligation is to report the fact as it is, which right now for him is that he hasn't been able to access WvW because of queue times.  That is what it is.  It's a negative strike against WvW.  He reported it.  What more do you want? 

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1572

 
OP  9/15/12 11:04:41 AM#16
Originally posted by evolpc
You sound a lot more like a fan than a journalist. Obviously you would not be taking away points because a feature is popular. That's another cop out. When looking at it objectively the feature is unavailable to be scored. The reason is irrelevant. It is one of the major features of the game and should be available, within reason, to all who purchase the game. If it is not then it is a shortcoming of the game design, which you are representing yourself as a reviewer of. You keep saying yourself that you can't access the systems to review them. However the game will receive a glowing, gushing review at press time. It seems intellectually dishonest.

I'm not going to withold a score forever, and I apologize if I make it seem that way.  I'm simply trying to make it clear that I feel a reviewer should partake in every system of a game before giving a final review.  That's what I aim to do. If I can never get into WvW, then yes I'll likely go your suggested route and try to encapsulate it as best I can. But I'd really like to actually get some quality time with WVW before judging that part of the game.  I see your point, but I think I've made it clear enough already I'm unhappy with the queues to partake in WVW, so that's already counting against it. But I still want to really dive into the system to make a real honest call on it.

Make sense?

  evolpc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 74

9/15/12 11:10:07 AM#17
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by evolpc
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by evolpc

Judge the game on its current merrits at the time of the review. If a feature is unavailable to be reviewed.... well then the recourse is very simple. Why go out of your way to avoid taking any points away?

It's not about that, but rather about missing out the biggest part of it's PVP. I'd not be able to judge it at all, whereas I can judge a majority of the PVE content and sPVP, but not the big draw: WVW.  I can't judge it on its current merits, if I can't access all systems.  And I can't really take away points because a feature is popular either.  

You sound a lot more like a fan than a journalist. Obviously you would not be taking away points because a feature is popular. That's another cop out. When looking at it objectively the feature is unavailable to be scored. The reason is irrelevant. It is one of the major features of the game and should be available, within reason, to all who purchase the game. If it is not then it is a shortcoming of the game design, which you are representing yourself as a reviewer of. You keep saying yourself that you can't access the systems to review them. However the game will receive a glowing, gushing review at press time. It seems intellectually dishonest.

The only journalistically honest thing he can do here is exactly what he has done: state and explain the current shortcoming and wait until he can actually play that aspect of the game before he analyzes, you know, that aspect of the game.  It would be downright dishonest to give WvW a completely negative review as you seem to desire him to do when he has zero experience to go by.  The only journalistic obligation is to report the fact as it is, which right now for him is that he hasn't been able to access WvW because of queue times.  That is what it is.  It's a negative strike against WvW.  He reported it.  What more do you want? 

What I want is for it to be a negative strike against WvWvW, just as you said yourself. Many customers are affected and unhappy about this shortcoming, myself included. I do not think it should be glossed over that this is a problem when he finally does review it. They do not do favors like that for other games. I suppose I will reserve further judgement for when he publishes the official review but I will not hold my breath. It is a great game but does not deserve a free pass on anything. If the game is really that great, favors like that will not be necessary will they?

  BillMurphy

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 1572

 
OP  9/15/12 11:11:47 AM#18
Originally posted by evolpc
What I want is for it to be a negative strike against WvWvW, just as you said yourself. Many customers are affected and unhappy about this shortcoming, myself included. I do not think it should be glossed over that this is a problem when he finally does review it. They do not do favors like that for other games. I suppose I will reserve further judgement for when he publishes the official review but I will not hold my breath. It is a great game but does not deserve a free pass on anything. If the game is really that great, favors like that will not be necessary will they?

Quoting myself for you.  :)

" I see your point, but I think I've made it clear enough already I'm unhappy with the queues to partake in WVW, so that's already counting against it. But I still want to really dive into the system to make a real honest call on it."

  Bladestrom

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

9/15/12 11:13:29 AM#19
No, what you want is a negative strike against access to wvwvw not wvwvw itself, that has not been reviews yet. And ofc that is what he has done.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  evolpc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 74

9/15/12 11:13:41 AM#20
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by evolpc
You sound a lot more like a fan than a journalist. Obviously you would not be taking away points because a feature is popular. That's another cop out. When looking at it objectively the feature is unavailable to be scored. The reason is irrelevant. It is one of the major features of the game and should be available, within reason, to all who purchase the game. If it is not then it is a shortcoming of the game design, which you are representing yourself as a reviewer of. You keep saying yourself that you can't access the systems to review them. However the game will receive a glowing, gushing review at press time. It seems intellectually dishonest.

I'm not going to withold a score forever, and I apologize if I make it seem that way.  I'm simply trying to make it clear that I feel a reviewer should partake in every system of a game before giving a final review.  That's what I aim to do. If I can never get into WvW, then yes I'll likely go your suggested route and try to encapsulate it as best I can. But I'd really like to actually get some quality time with WVW before judging that part of the game.  I see your point, but I think I've made it clear enough already I'm unhappy with the queues to partake in WVW, so that's already counting against it. But I still want to really dive into the system to make a real honest call on it.

Make sense?

Well said and I am glad you are clarrifying your position. Your statement before was a bit ambigious and left a lot to the imagination. I just hope the official review takes into account the actual game play experience including the long wait to ever be able to enjoy a core feature.

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