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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Please describe what makes a good end game

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150 posts found
  User Deleted
9/14/12 2:39:06 PM#21
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently.  But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW.  However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.

So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be?  Maybe an example game?  I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.

Same here, for many of us, the end game in WoW and WoW-like games, IE lobby games, were robbing us of time. In GW2 we won't be standing around in the major city waiting on a group to form to do anything meaningful, there will always be something meaningful to be doing. Finishing explores, finding every secret nook, doing every jump puzzle for the rewards, killing minor dragons (yes, those open world raids were minor dragons), taking towers.

And then you know what will most likely happen next when people want to leave and then come back to the game?

Nothing.

That's right, it's the way these games should have been from the start, gives incentive to put out good content in the right amount of time instead of freezing content for an entire year while your slow schedule and mismanagement can milk every monthly $15 out of your players. 

Subscription models swindled and I'm one of the victims.

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2375

9/14/12 2:56:30 PM#22
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Badaboom
I don't like "end game."  I like "all game."  All game is the best type of game.

 

And I find myself quoting you and agreeing with you yet again.

Well it's true.  I couldn't imagine telling my wife during sex that I just want to get to my endgame.  I'd be divorced.  Why can't we all just enjoy the ride?!

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4428

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

9/14/12 3:33:44 PM#23
Originally posted by ShakyMo
One that doesn't expend 90% of its resources on 5% of its players, the elusive lesser spotted hardcore "competative" raider.

what game is this?

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  9/14/12 3:34:59 PM#24
Originally posted by Requiem1066

Endgame to me = replayability .. Which is why to me things such as exploration or puzzles just don't cut it for myself .. since when they are done they are done ..

People say the gear grind is bad but unless you have unlimited content ( impossible ) it atleast gave people an option for replayability outside of PvP .. Because it add's a challenge and a goal 

 I think this is a good answer.

Everything boils down to replayability in the end.  Whether it's user created content, well designed PvP, a gear grind, etc...  All that matters in the end is that the content, whatever it is, is enjoyable to replay.

And I really think this is highly subjective.  Some people won't be happy unless they are chasing a carrot.  Some people will be miserable if they realize they are just chasing a carrot.  Some people can thrive on the competition of PvP for years and years while others shy away from it.

So I think that when you measure the "end-game" of a specific game, all you can really look at is the amount of options that it gives players to do, the "replayability factor" of those options, and the quality or "fun factor" of those options.

And in this respect, I honestly think GW2 will be highly replayable for a large amount of people, but not everyone of course.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2758

9/14/12 3:42:26 PM#25

With regard to GW2 endgame.  I'd like to see:

 

1) more interesting WvWvW

2) DE's that take over a zone and can move into another zone - just let the DE's overrun a zone sometimes and motivate the players to push them back

3) More interesting/challenging world bosses

4) Fun instances - not a grind for tokens

  gessekai332

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 838

9/14/12 3:45:30 PM#26
meaningful pvp both small scale and large scale, semi-difficulty dungeons that i can farm with a PUG, high-impossible difficulty raid  scale dungeons that are rewarding but are not forced upon you like in WoW-esque games.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  GoldenArrow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1076

9/14/12 3:49:51 PM#27

For me it's

A) Reason to log-in every day and the real incentive to do so.

B) Endless progression on my main character.

C) Good community.

D) Different options for endgame that are all equally valid and fill the B)

E) All of the above needs to be _fun_

If my character is "perfect" and can't progress any further in any possible way (i.e brick wall) my incentive to play the game drops enormously. In this case my only incentive is to get ready for upcoming content.

In short: Endless progression for my main character, different options for endgame and fun.

Everything else is negotiable.

 

Games that have fulfilled by standards are pretty much.

FFXI / Eve Online / Rift / Shattered Galaxy (MMORTS/RPG) / Atlantica Online (ruined by insane cashshop)

Also TSW, but I'm really struggling with the fun part on it. Not to mention the progression cap is rather fast to achieve.

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

9/14/12 3:54:37 PM#28
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

With regard to GW2 endgame.  I'd like to see:

 

1) more interesting WvWvW

2) DE's that take over a zone and can move into another zone - just let the DE's overrun a zone sometimes and motivate the players to push them back

3) More interesting/challenging world bosses

4) Fun instances - not a grind for tokens

Yea these would be good additions.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  rodingo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1640

9/14/12 4:02:53 PM#29
For me it's simply PvP.  It was like that for me in Neocron (actually that was not just endgame), SWG, Planetside (actually all PvP),WoW, AoC, LoTRO, WAR, SWTOR, and GW2.  I tried raiding a few times, but after leveling through pve content I couldn't stomach more of it in the form of a raid.  Doing pve to get gear, to do pve, to get gear, to do pve..... just doesn't make a legitimate end game for me.  I wonder how many "high fives" and "good games" the original creator of raids got once devs realized that was the ultimate carrot on the stick.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Vynt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 596

9/14/12 4:13:18 PM#30

I think for GW2's endgame, it would just need a few tweaks.

I see the GW2 endgame mostly as the WvW.

Sure you can work on getting exotic armor, doing achievements, going through all the other content, and that is touted as a great thing, but you can do that in all the other games. Most people don't really care to it seems.

I might go back through other content, but most likely, I'm not going to do it all. Usually the other content I miss I save for an alt, but I do that in all MMOs I play.

Other MMOs usually have some kind of continued progression at endgame, not all the same. Sometimes it is gear (which GW2 sort of has), others are extra skills from pve, like the AA in EQ, or realm abilities from pvp in daoc. There is usually something to keep people going. I know people will say fun keeps them going, but those other games are fun and have that extra stuff. It is kind of needed to have continued sustained playing, replayability.

 

The way I see that for GW2 is tweaking the WvW. Add in some points for kills to further customize a character, similar to daoc. That drastically improved the rvr there. Removing a player cap would be huge, but unsure if GW2s can support that. The queues hurt the pvp. There probably wouldn't be queues if people weren't made level 80, but that was their design choice, so have to live with it. Would have liked to see pvp restricted to bunches of levels like the daoc BGs had (with no cap of players). Just a personal preference.

 

  TobiasGrey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/12
Posts: 170

9/14/12 4:16:28 PM#31
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently.  But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW.

End game in GW2 is a LOT better than WoW.

A good end game is dynamic content. In DAoC this came in the form of the Darkness Falls dungeon, which contained raiding and PvE spots, infused with a bit of PvP, and its frontier, which was always changing because it was entirely player driven.

GW2 is halfway to DAOC's PvP model. If it can put in realm ranks, a Darkness Falls, better relics, it'll have some of the best end game since DAoC.

 

Also, DAoC had regular raids, that were entirely optional, non tiered, and done for fun, not as work or progression. The raids were based on dynamic AI, rather than scripted for specific numbers and classes. IT allowed for a lot of different groups to get a lot of different experiences out of the raids. A 30 man dragon raid was totally different from a 150 man dragon raid.

 

Asheron's Call also had good end game, with its branching monthly updates where the actions of the players changed the shape of the world.

 

WoW has none of this.

  laserit

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1376

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

9/14/12 4:19:45 PM#32

I would love to see somebody try "live content" have some Gm's control Epic boss's and attack town's and zones and anything else that creativity can come up with. Something that's not scripted but live and would never be the same.

I remember back to some of the early days in UO, there were some guild's that were heavy into RP and some just liked to be evil. The mayhem and the posse's were great fun.

Zenimax kicked my dog

  Sylviodrood

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/10
Posts: 7

9/14/12 4:19:59 PM#33
have people not figured out yet that the end game is WvW and explorable dungeons and to get kool skins. not giants raids...a good 1/2 of the "endgame" can be done at lvl 1. i just dont understnad what the compalint is here. lvl 80 is to just make sure that one gets all the skills and traits. why are the people on this site handicapped
  TobiasGrey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/12
Posts: 170

9/14/12 4:23:22 PM#34
Originally posted by laserit

I would love to see somebody try "live content" have some Gm's control Epic boss's and attack town's and zones and anything else that creativity can come up with. Something that's not scripted but live and would never be the same.

I remember back to some of the early days in UO, there were some guild's that were heavy into RP and some just liked to be evil. The mayhem and the posse's were great fun.

Agreed. This is something Darkfall has been playing around with, but they have too much on their plate to go all the way with this.

 

Originally posted by Sylviodrood
have people not figured out yet that the end game is WvW and explorable dungeons and to get kool skins.

WoW players aren't too keen to figure things out... or do anything other than WoW over and over. If something isn't like WOW, they yell until it becomes WoW. Then the devs wonder why they're losing subscribers...

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2625

9/14/12 4:26:31 PM#35
What makes a good endgame in a MMORPG? I have no clue. I have never seen any MMO where endgame was done well. Raids were not too shabby the first few times I tried it but after that endgame is just grind to keep you playing/subbed.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  TigerAero

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 144

9/14/12 4:28:44 PM#36
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently.  But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW.  However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.

So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be?  Maybe an example game?  I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.

 

Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore. One benefit to B2P games. You can throw it out/uninstall when you're done...nothing to keep you here, unless you lose your job or other stuff goes on.

  TobiasGrey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/12
Posts: 170

9/14/12 4:29:56 PM#37
Originally posted by TigerAero
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently.  But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW.  However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.

So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be?  Maybe an example game?  I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.

 

Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore.

So there's nothing except a dynamically changing player driven environment to keep you logging in? That sounds a SHIT load better than raids.

  TigerAero

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 144

9/14/12 4:34:28 PM#38
Originally posted by TobiasGrey
Originally posted by TigerAero
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently.  But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW.  However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.

So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be?  Maybe an example game?  I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.

 

Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore.

So there's nothing except a dynamically changing player driven environment to keep you logging in? That sounds a SHIT load better than raids.

 

Yep. I love DE's. I can "flutter" from one to another without having to party with a single person. :P

 

I never said there is no end game...but it's the reason 1/2 of  our guild, Nexus Gaming (an original pre-launch guild), has left the scene.

  TobiasGrey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/12
Posts: 170

9/14/12 4:38:47 PM#39
Originally posted by TigerAero
Originally posted by TobiasGrey
Originally posted by TigerAero
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently.  But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW.  However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.

So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be?  Maybe an example game?  I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.

 

Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore.

So there's nothing except a dynamically changing player driven environment to keep you logging in? That sounds a SHIT load better than raids.

 

Yep. I love DE's. I can "flutter" from one to another without having to party with a single person. :P

 

I never said there is no end game...but it's the reason 1/2 of  our guild, Nexus Gaming (an original pre-launch guild), has left the scene.

I was referring to the RvR, which is kind of the selling point of GW2.

  Sylviodrood

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/10
Posts: 7

9/14/12 4:39:48 PM#40
Originally posted by TigerAero
Originally posted by TobiasGrey
Originally posted by TigerAero
Originally posted by Creslin321

I've seen a lot of posts complaining that GW2 has no end-game recently.  But, to be honest, I really don't see how the end-game in GW2 is any worse than that in WoW.  However this could just be due to my inexperience with the end game in WoW, or my specific preferences...after all, the end game to WoW never appealed to me, so I never experienced it.

So for those who think GW2 has a poor end game, could you please describe to me what you feel a good end game would be?  Maybe an example game?  I'm not saying this to be snide, I just honestly don't understand why people are complaining about this, and I want to understand.

 

Once you hit 80 there's nothing other then spvp/wvw to get you to login to that specific character anymore.

So there's nothing except a dynamically changing player driven environment to keep you logging in? That sounds a SHIT load better than raids.

 

Yep. I love DE's. I can "flutter" from one to another without having to party with a single person. :P

 

I never said there is no end game...but it's the reason 1/2 of  our guild, Nexus Gaming (an original pre-launch guild), has left the scene.

just sounds to me you were on a crappy server.

post edit. BASED Jade Quarry

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